When can we expect to see a nerf of the Hybrid Sin/Shadow?

[richardya]

1 nerf thread is not the way to go. You need multiple nerf KC Shadow threads to get it done. You should always keep three towards the top. Also, can you guys get infiltration buffed whilst your at it.

 

Thanks

Edited March 27, 2012 by richardya

[Ryotknife]

LULWOT? Stalling 6 people for 13+ seconds WHILE IN STEALTH? That's simply not possible.

Also, you CAN CC an assassin in stealth. Ever heard of +stealth detection skills and the Stealth Scan ability? Probably not...

 

On Top of all that, you don't even need the +stealth abilities because TANK ASSASSIN DON'T SKILL +STEALTH.

 

But logical arguments are futile against such trolling power.

 

A. stealth scan is easy to avoid due to the fact that it takes around 2 seconds for it to start scanning. and even if it does hit a stealther, it removes him from stealth. meaning that if you want to cc him, you have to do it after the scan detects and removes him from stealth.

 

B. even with stealth detection talents, if you are lucky you will see s stealther for a fraction of a second. and spamming instant CC ability in the hopes that you will automatically target a stealther is a bad idea (because it will also target nearby non stealthers), that too is out the window.

 

the real problem with assassins is that they simply overshadow many classes by doing everything class X can do while bringing more to the table as well. this makes them far too potent in competitive pvp because they are the perfect class.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Ryotknife

[Xinika]

A. stealth scan is easy to avoid due to the fact that it takes around 2 seconds for it to start scanning. and even if it does hit a stealther, it removes him from stealth. meaning that if you want to cc him, you have to do it after the scan detects and removes him from stealth.

 

B. even with stealth detection talents, if you are lucky you will see s stealther for a fraction of a second. and spamming instant CC ability in the hopes that you will automatically target a stealther is a bad idea (because it will also target nearby non stealthers), that too is out the window.

 

KC doesn't need stealth. So. Argument flawed.

[Ryotknife]

KC doesn't need stealth. So. Argument flawed.

 

which has what to do with my post against the inability to CC someone in stealth? nothing?

 

good....carry on.

[AetherMcLoud]

B. even with stealth detection talents, if you are lucky you will see s stealther for a fraction of a second. and spamming instant CC ability in the hopes that you will automatically target a stealther is a bad idea (because it will also target nearby non stealthers), that too is out the window.

 

This is simply not true. You see them long enough to even mouse-click target them.

[Xinika]

which has what to do with my post against the inability to CC someone in stealth? nothing?

 

good....carry on.

 

Carrying balls requires stealth. So does taking damage from guard.

[Slurmez]

A. stealth scan is easy to avoid due to the fact that it takes around 2 seconds for it to start scanning. and even if it does hit a stealther, it removes him from stealth. meaning that if you want to cc him, you have to do it after the scan detects and removes him from stealth.

 

B. even with stealth detection talents, if you are lucky you will see s stealther for a fraction of a second. and spamming instant CC ability in the hopes that you will automatically target a stealther is a bad idea (because it will also target nearby non stealthers), that too is out the window.

 

the real problem with assassins is that they simply overshadow many classes by doing everything class X can do while bringing more to the table as well. this makes them far too potent in competitive pvp because they are the perfect class.

 

lol stealth scan is instantaneous, and mine roots

 

shadows/assassins dont do jack more than other classes, they do it differently

[lokivoid]

And when can we expect the other trees to be balanced to be better for group play.

 

 

There's a reason why 90% of the people playing Assassin/Shadow are now playing hybrid.

 

I play a full darkness specced assassin, i have yet to loose to a "hybrid" specc shadow/assassin in a 1v1 fight.

[Izola]

Xinika is one of the HIGH skilled players, An individual that will be in a top rated WZ group and also shares information in a time where Theory crafting is almost impossible. Nothing but LOVE for you and what you have done for the class up to this point.

 

 

My only point is that The DPS output in KC spec is HIGH and the utility/survivability is by far better then the other Shadow specs.

 

"Fiftysix" Wow rogue, look me up, I type this not to pat myself on the back, but so that you know I'm no casual and have played MMOs at a very high level WITH & AGAINST some of the best players in the world.

 

My point is it just feels & Plays like a LOW skill cap class ATM. And I'm a min/max player that would rather play Infiltration spec, A BURST High skill cap class....A lot like Muti Vs Sub but in this case Muti would have all the Utility.

 

This is only one mans opinion! I meant no offense to anyone.

 

KC is a lil OP. Not in the stats/dam/abilities ...but rather in the Faceroll way it can be played.

 

I just miss my rogue is all...lol!

Edited March 27, 2012 by Izola

[Ahhmyface]

Yea and that is the final statement people respond with when they realize this. Except they are good at doing everything not that "they arent good at anything particular".

 

Proving either or is a bit hard to do but people already posted the Screenshots of high damage, high protection and high survivability so they clearly have those going for them. All that remains is debating utility which is what I am presenting in my argument.

 

Its not that they have everything mediocore, they have everything awesome. Get over it.

 

If you think warzone stats mean anything at all, then I'm afraid you are just flat out clueless about this game. Damage gets pretty high when you fail to focus, or spam aoes on a crowd and kill nothing, or attack the tank before the healer. Protection gets pretty high when your opponents fail to focus, or if you taunt, or if you're deathmatching in the middle instead of focusing on objectives. Your first point is non-existent.

 

Nobody is going to argue with you when you say tankasins have utility. But they aren't going to dps anything down like a dps class, they're not going to tank anything like a true tank, and they're not going to heal anything like a healer.

[AetherMcLoud]

But they aren't going to dps anything down like a dps class, they're not going to tank anything like a true tank, and they're not going to heal anything like a healer.

 

Which is pretty much the definition of "Jack of all trades, master of none".

[Ryotknife]

This is simply not true. You see them long enough to even mouse-click target them.

 

false. ive played stealth classes and agaisnt stealth classes in wow and in swtor, they both have the same mechanics. you (intentionally) pop a stealther out of stealth by spamming a basic attack in the hopes that it auto targets him and pops him out. or you get lucky and hit him with an aoe.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Ryotknife

[mordredz]

They dont need to be nerfed.

I dont play one.

 

um lol, ignorant as they come...

[Ryotknife]

Which is pretty much the definition of "Jack of all trades, master of none".

 

except that assassins do dps as well as other dpsers (in fact their dps is extremely strong, thankfully its mostly back loaded) and they do tank as well as the tank pvp specs all in one spec. about the only part of that statement which is true is that they do no heal as well as a healer.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Ryotknife

[AetherMcLoud]

false. ive played stealth classes and agaisnt stealth classes in wow and in swtor, they both have the same mechanics. you (intentionally) pop a stealther out of stealth by spamming a basic attack in the hopes that it auto targets him and pops him out. or you get lucky and hit him with an aoe.

 

You're probably a really bad player if you cannot target stealthers who didn't even spec for +stealth. It's easy as pie.

[Slurmez]

except that assassins do dps as well as other dpsers (in fact their dps is extremely strong) and they do tank as well as the tank pvp specs all in one spec. about the only part of that statement which is true is that they do no heal as well as a healer.

 

and every other tank does that just without stealth but with other tricks, my IF dps geared vanguard dps is consistently up there and my survivability is easily on a par with a tank spec assassin. My being able to smack people up at range is infinately more preferable and useful than the small ticks of health back from their "heal". What they have over me is the ability to run away.

[Xinika]

Xinika is one of the HIGH skilled players, An individual that will be in a top rated WZ group and also shares information in a time where Theory crafting is almost impossible. Nothing but LOVE for you and what you have done for the class up to this point.

 

 

My only point is that The DPS output in KC spec is HIGH and the utility/survivability is by far better then the other Shadow specs.

 

"Fiftysix" Wow rogue, look me up, I type this not to pat myself on the back, but so that you know I'm no casual and have played MMOs at a very high level WITH & AGAINST some of the best players in the world.

 

My point is it just feels & Plays like a LOW skill cap class ATM. And I'm a min/max player that would rather play Infiltration spec, A BURST High skill cap class....A lot like Muti Vs Sub but in this case Muti would have all the Utility.

 

This is only one mans opinion! I meant no offense to anyone.

 

KC is a lil OP. Not in the stats/dam/abilities ...but rather in the Faceroll way it can be played.

 

I just miss my rogue is all...lol!

 

Right, understandable. Out of all 3 specs, I find KC the most boring, but also the most balanced. It's not my favourite spec. I love infil the most and balance comes second. KC isn't overpowered and I'm talking from fighting other good players. I USED to think it was OP back when I first started the spec and could pull some pretty heroic stuff. As time progressed, that started following off the chart more and more. Most people think it's overpowered because they're clueless.

 

That's not the case anymore. Now that people actually know how to counter me, and other guardians/juggs actually playing their tank specs correctly, I feel that if anything, KC could use another buff. Don't even get me started on Vanguards. They are THE TANKS. PuG situations... come on guys... really? You can't judge from PuGs. Any good player with any class can pull off insane situations. I remember when Konichiwa (a mara on my server) 2v1'd myself and another guardian at a node. Granted this was way back in early Jan and I was still an infilfangirl, learning to play.

 

A Shadow leading the cause doesn't make the argument any stronger. It just shows the lack of competition he's receiving. I dare you to wear DPS gear as KC while defending a node on my server. See how long you last at that node. I know how to counter you. You're easy to counter. Also, you really think you'll ever come close to killing me or any of my crew with guards, taunts and heals? Sure as hell not as KC. Don't matter how much DPS gear you stack on it.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Xinika

[Haeso]

KC DPS reminds me of sage DPS. Consistent with small bits of burst. Not enough to blow someone up through healing. Feels very inflated by very high uptime and aoe.

 

My sentinel in any spec can put more pressure on healers than my KC shadow could dream of, even if my sentinel doesn't get much higher on the scoreboard for various reasons.

[Izola]

Right, understandable. Out of all 3 specs, I find KC the most boring, but also the most balanced. It's not my favourite spec. I love infil the most and balance comes second. KC isn't overpowered and I'm talking from fighting other good players. I USED to think it was OP back when I first started the spec and could pull some pretty heroic stuff. As time progressed, that started following off the chart more and more. Most people think it's overpowered because they're clueless.

 

That's not the case anymore. Now that people actually know how to counter me, and other guardians/juggs actually playing their tank specs correctly, I feel that if anything, KC could use another buff. Don't even get me started on Vanguards. They are THE TANKS. PuG situations... come on guys... really? You can't judge from PuGs. Any good player with any class can pull off insane situations. I remember when Konichiwa (a mara on my server) 2v1'd myself and another guardian at a node. Granted this was way back in early Jan and I was still an infilfangirl, learning to play.

 

A Shadow leading the cause doesn't make the argument any stronger. It just shows the lack of competition he's receiving. I dare you to wear DPS gear as KC while defending a node on my server. See how long you last at that node. I know how to counter you. You're easy to counter. Also, you really think you'll ever come close to killing me or any of my crew with guards, taunts and heals? Sure as hell not as KC. Don't matter how much DPS gear you stack on it.

 

 

I don't disagree with anything you said here.

 

Like I said the Abilies/dam of the class isn't what I mean to nurf...It's the face roll way in which it can be played...I guess I just have to reroll, It's my own fault, I figured this would be a high skill cap class.

 

If you look I'm currently trying to get Scoundrel some utility so I can play that class, prob follows more in line with my rogue play style....

 

Plus I'm on a pretty good server ATM, (Fatman) but the amount of players is SO HIGH you are prob right about the level of Comp. We won't know until rateds.

[Ryotknife]

and every other tank does that just without stealth but with other tricks, my IF dps geared vanguard dps is consistently up there and my survivability is easily on a par with a tank spec assassin. My being able to smack people up at range is infinately more preferable and useful than the small ticks of health back from their "heal". What they have over me is the ability to run away.

 

no... what they have over you is more survivability, knockback, CC, and stealth.....on top of being able to run away. my level 25 assassin has more tools to survive than my level 50 pt.

 

and lol, pyro pts have the worst survivability in the game, they have practially zero defensive tools. their energy shield is about as effective as a single sorc bubble with 6x the CD

 

assassin/shadow are better than pts/vangaurd in every way imaginable.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Ryotknife

[Astarica]

If you're not the master of DPS as an Assassin you're doing something wrong.

 

I'm not even sure master of tanking means in this game. Carrying the Huttball? Sure I can carry the ball from endzone to endzone except that's pointless because anybody with a charge mechanism would never need to carry the ball for that long. Defending turrets solo? Besides this being a very bad idea (2 CC means they can cap even if you're invulnerable), most of the defense comes from the LoS from turret itself. In Voidstar help is basically 5 seconds away so you're never truly defending solo to begin with.

 

Really those who are focusing on the numbers themselves aren't seeing the big picture. What's scary about 31/0/10 in particular is what doesn't show up in the leaderboard. Leaderboard doesn't show the entire team's DPS subtracted by 5% as protection. It doesn't show that having the entire enemy team permanently snared leads to all kinds of total beatdowns you can do. Wither at the right place leads to a goal in Huttball or an undefended door in Voidstar and this contribution is actually real, unlike most contributions that cannot be seen in the leaderboard. I mean sure an AE knockdown can do the same thing too, but difference is that you can use Wither every 7.5 seconds while AE knockdown are usually on the order of once a minute, so you get a lot of more chances to contribute.

[kyuyu]

You know this spec isn't getting nerfed right?

 

I don't care either way. Nerfing and buffing is just the way MMOs function. I don't have this intrinsic zeal over any particular class since I don't role play them, i.e. emotions will make you biased.

 

But when you debate and respond to others in a public forum, at least understand what your opponent is saying, instead of just calling others idiots.

[Alric_Annondu]

The class is OP.

 

Get over it lol.

 

Why don't you just deal with it?

[AMKSED]

Why don't you just deal with it?

 

I am, by making a post and shedding some light the the true nature of the spec.

[Mathelia]

Hahaha how on earth can I take this thread seriously when the OP bases his arguments off:

 

"I solo'd 2~3 bad players at a node, therefore this spec is overpowered"

 

God I wish this game had cross-server warzones.

 

+100 for validness