Kinetic combat: Agressive pvp speccing

[Moonheart_S]

I'm being shirty because people are more busy to voice their opinion about tanking than to help me.

It feels like I get lots of answers looking like "no I won't answer, because your idea is stupid"

 

I'm not even sure they seriously read what I write.

For exemple, you didn't even notice I wasn't talking of a build using FiB... after 3 pages of this thread.

 

I asked for help, at the end, I got none.

If I had known, I wouldn't even had opened this thread.

[Aaramis]

No, I noticed, actually. I just presumed you would have taken the advice of people letting you know that 28/3/10 doesn't really grant you anything extra, and that if you were to splash into Balance, that 28/0/13 is the better option. In which case I was pointing out the merits / fallbacks of FiB.

 

/shrug

It's not that everyone else isn't listening to what you're saying; it's you as well (and most notably, I might point out).

[maticlandarr]

Hi id like some advice on this build.

 

But only if it supports the choices i made.

[Moonheart_S]

I'd like advice on this build, but only if it comes with arguments and not with a 'the 31/0/10 is better, period. You're dumb, you don't know what a tank is' kind-of answer.

 

An advice without arguments isn't an advice, it's a useless personnal opinion

Edited March 25, 2012 by Moonheart_S

[temarye]

Hey Moon, here are some thoughts :

--> As mentionned previously, they buffed ST (slow time).

 

It's not that I don't like your template, since I've tried it out. Let's take examples :

--> Group combat (argualbly 50% of the wz) : ST is IMBA for damage.

--> Huttball : An additionnal snare ? You definitely need it.

 

The only case, which you focus on, is solo-defending a turret. I personnaly don't have any problem in 1v1, and if I do cause i'm out-numbered, ST can only give me some more time for help to come.

 

 

Another problem I have with your template, is energy management. SS seems to cost too much to use in groupfight. If it's to use only in 1v1, then it's not worth it.

And if you take take shadow respite (drop psychokinesis), you simply become an infil with no burst (but significantly more resistant). Still not worth it

[Sacull]

I feel I'm going to stop to answer here, because it seems most people here just don't want to answer to the real subject of the thread and are instead only here to push their view of how the kinetic combat spec should be played.

 

There are only two people out of three page that actually bothered to really comment on the 28/3/10 build instead of trying to tell me I shouldn't even try to be imaginative or try other things that their sacred 31/0/10 build and the way they think it must be played.

 

So, ok, I get the message: There is only one good way to play in swtor. You all hold the only truth, even if I'm pretty sure none of you ever tried something different before put a judgement on it, and I'm stupid to want to try something else.

I don't even see why I continue to bother to answer this.

 

Most of people complain that there are very few builds possible in each spec, but what I see is when someone is talking of trying one different, players around are more busy to tell him to return to the old build than bringing helpful comments to help him to increase its chances to do a successfull try.

 

So, be happy in you world of clones. That's what you ask for, after all.

 

Try this if you don't want to be the norm. 31/1/9.

 

I personally think Slow Time is just too good not to use. Between its damage, its damage debuff, and its AoE snare it is amazing. I used to refuse to use it... but I finally tried it. And haven't looked back. This spec gives you the opportunity to take advantage of Shadow Strike with the Find Weakness buff that Infiltration Tactics gives you. Now it is ONLY 10% chance but remember... you get that 10% chance on everyone that Slow Time and Force Breach hits in one cast. You have that same 10% chance for EACH swing of Double Strike and Saber Strike. So it will be up much more often than you would think. Just wait for the buff to use SS. Boom more damage. Cheap.

 

I wear 2 pieces of BM/Champ Survivor gear for the 2 piece bonus and 2 pieces Columi Stalker. All defensive mods have been removed for DPS ones. The rest of my gear is Stalker or Force Master depending on what has better stats. I am a Tanky DPS. And I enjoy it very much. I have used a focus and I have used a shield. That preference I will leave to the player but I currently run the shield as default in WZs now. I tend to run the ball the most and defend points to ensure the win so the extra shield defense helps a lot.

 

28/3/10. Let me say this first. If you are not going to have Slow Time then you should have at least 12 points in Balance for the extra 50% Double Strike crit damage. Having said that I don't think the full 3 points in infiltration tactics. As I explained above you can do well with just 1 point in it and get your +50% crit damage for double strike.

 

As far as other specs I have tried well here you go: 27/1/13 or any variant of that... like 29/0/12, 28/1/12 etc etc. They are good... I just enjoy having Slow Time a lot.

 

And for the people who say you can't tank and do damage well... I have never seen that nor will I ever tell you that. All I will say is this... test things out for yourself. Find what you are comfortable with (and enjoy!) and go with that.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Sacull

[Xaegant]

That's true I'm also kinetic combat user and when i play pvp especially huttball I always owned them. Why cause there are so many instance skills where you can use especially the emergency escape., I thought Jedi Shadow KC spec will dominate everything.

[_Scattered_]

27/1/13 is straight up better build.

 

3 point infil tactics is overkill, 2 points better spent in adjudication.

 

And do you seriously think 3% bonus damage on stuns is better than FiB?

 

31 point kc build wins though because you can kite melee while dealing 95% of your damage potential. Seriously guys kite those juggs and maras its pretty easy.

[Moonheart_S]

Those are more interesting answers

 

Except that part:

 

Hey Moon, here are some thoughts :

--> As mentionned previously, they buffed ST (slow time).

 

That's not really an argument. Something being buffed doesn't proove it is mandatory.

Slow Time is good, I don't argue. Point is to know if you can't really live without providing you adjust your playstyle accordingly in PvP

 

-------------------------------

 

Now, for the interesting arguments:

 

It's not that I don't like your template, since I've tried it out. Let's take examples :

--> Group combat (argualbly 50% of the wz) : ST is IMBA for damage.

 

I agree that damage-score wise, Slow Time is great.

 

Now, I don't really care about score.

Can it kill people? Well I don't think it can really directly kill people. It mostly end the life of damaged people after the healers have been put "oom" by the overall damage dealing (or rather "oof" here).

If you don't have enough dps in the group, Slow Time isn't going to kill anyone, even if it make you have great damage scores.

 

Still, if you are in the right playstyle, I don't even dare to say it's not worth taking.

Just... and in another playstyle?

 

--> Huttball : An additionnal snare ? You definitely need it.

 

I don't agree about "definitely need it" at all for the huttball.

 

The snare doesn't work on the ball bearer (already snared), and doesn't slow enough the other people to stop them follow him.

It could help a bit if you snare them while they are far of him... but if you're the tank, you are not supposed to be far of him (because you must guard) if the ball bearer is from your side.

 

So, it means, it's usefull if: the ball bearer is an ennemy, you are far from him with some of his teamates and want to delay them to rejoin him.... except that you have to be really far of him to make it interesting, because if your just "a bit farther", they will still protecting them by range attacks, snares, cc, jumps or pulls....

Also, if you're in the opposing team of the ball bearer, you're more useful, imho, going to try be close of him to bump or kick, or positionning elsewhere for a good force pull.

 

If I look back at all the games I had, the times when Slow Timehad was useful as a group snare, I even doubt it happened once in ten games... that's not a lot for 4 skills points.

 

The only case, which you focus on, is solo-defending a turret. I personnaly don't have any problem in 1v1, and if I do cause i'm out-numbered, ST can only give me some more time for help to come.

 

I perhaps have to train more, because I still being killed by good dps character 1vs1 on a regular basis... it is an interesting point because if I'm not supposed to die, I don't need to switch spec to do that role better, indeed.

I'm going to try to find some advice of good 31/0/10 players about 1vs1 and see if I can increase my 1vs1 win rate.

 

Another problem I have with your template, is energy management. SS seems to cost too much to use in groupfight. If it's to use only in 1v1, then it's not worth it.

And if you take take shadow respite (drop psychokinesis), you simply become an infil with no burst (but significantly more resistant). Still not worth it

 

SS doesn't cost more than Slow Time if you use it with Infiltration Tactics. In fact it cost less since you'll probably use it less often (10s CD against 7,5s)

 

Now it is ONLY 10% chance but remember... you get that 10% chance on everyone that Slow Time and Force Breach hits in one cast. You have that same 10% chance for EACH swing of Double Strike and Saber Strike.

 

Are you sure it really work this way? If it is, it is a really interesting point indeed.

Is there some deep analysis about it I could read somewhere?

 

And for the people who say you can't tank and do damage well... I have never seen that nor will I ever tell you that.

 

Well, honestly, I lack numbers to judge curently, but I readed a lot of time experienced players saying than the extra survivability you get with a defensive gear is far less noticeable than the extra DPS you get with an offensive gear.

I wonder if someone will be able to bring real number after the 1.2 logs will be there.

 

But I tend to wonder what exactly the talents brings as an extra % survivability compared to what the combat technique + 3 technique mastery starting points do.

Those two things alone do: +150% armor +15% shield rate +9% non-physical damage resistance +self-healing..... compared to this, the +1% defense or resistance talents seems very poor.

I'm almost convinced that 90% of our survivability comes from the combat technique (harnessed shadows excepted).

 

While the 10% is great in pve where your only role is to soak damage, I wonder if this extra 10% is really comparable to what an aggressive speccing can bring in extra DPS in pvp.

 

In fact, what a 10/0/31 or 10/31/0 with combat technique could do in term of resistance/dps balance? I never readed anything about people tryingthis... at least not anythins with numbers or real test results.

Just some personnal opinions without numbers or real arguments... as often.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Moonheart_S

[Sacull]

quote of some of what I said:

 

And for the people who say you can't tank and do damage well... I have never seen that nor will I ever tell you that.

 

Quote of what he said:

 

Well, honestly, I lack numbers to judge curently, but I readed a lot of time experienced players saying than the extra survivability you get with a defensive gear is far less noticeable than the extra DPS you get with an offensive gear.

I wonder if someone will be able to bring real number after the 1.2 logs will be there.

 

 

and my response:

 

I never said tank gear. Tank is a role. And with DPS gear you can do plenty of damage. And you can provide plenty of protection as well.

[Moonheart_S]

And my reponse: I never said tank gear, as well. Nor talked about doing plenty of damage in a defensive gear, so I don't even understand what you are protesting against Edited March 26, 2012 by Moonheart_S

[HuorEarfalas]

There is a unique hybrid build that is a bit pigeon-holed in what it requires to be grouped with but looks like a fun build.

 

I took out the top two tiers in KC for the bottom 2 in Infiltration.

 

24/7/10

 

It's a more direct Healer protector/Healer Killer build.

 

To really minimize the lose to Slow Time and Harnessed Shadows I would really only try this with at least a Healer but preferably a Healer and Guardian.

 

The idea is the improved Mind Snap and Force of Will in conjunction with the Shadow Strike for 25 Force greatly improves our ability to interrupt and DPS down healers. We are still tough as nails only losing minor utility and self heals for the price of improved single target DPS and Utility. We also get a huge Force regen bonus from Shadowy Respite.

 

Like I said though I'd feel most comfortable running this with a Healer and Guardian with AoE slow which is 10x better than Slow Time.

 

I wouldn't put a point into Rapid Recovery. 15% bonus may sound nice, but combat technique's effect cannot repeat itself less than every 4 seconds. I would also avoid putting any point into Shadowsight, just not worth it. Mental Fortitude is a much better choice imo.

 

I would also rather take up FiB rather than shadow strike for reasons:

1. FiB is a 30m range and hits up to 3 enemies.

2. Shadow strike is a single white damage ability that can be mitigated and requires you to be in melee range to use. Also, you have to wait for Find Weakness to proc to be used effectively.