Whats wrong with Swtor? Well, not the game anyway.

[wargonglok]

this community is total garbage. most people that play swtor live to be total toolsheds. the only other game ive played that has more elitest *****s in it is league of legends.

 

for instance, theres this guy on my server that does nothing but talk **** and call everyone "brew"

 

brew? i can handle bro, brah, mang, but ****in brew?

 

you have obviously never played heroes of newerth

 

 

wors community i have ever seen, stopped playing after several years just because of the community

[Darius-Orin]

After I left dromund kass I quickly discovered that any kind of socializing on other planets was pretty much non-existent. I figure a lot of gamers here must suffer from a social anxiety disorder.

[Pervejbirk]

This is one of my pet hates in manu MMOs'. Often, classes CAN be played in many different ways. But often, if you dont play it the "right" way, you get blocked from group work.

 

case in point, Sorcerers make fantastic DPS's, but people only want them to heal, nothing more. I dont want to heal, i dont mind doing a bit, but thats not the be all and end all of it. And i get frustrated when people expect me to change gear and talent specs so i get the "privalage" of joining their group

 

x

 

Ohhh i couldn't agree more to this..

it where like this in rift as well though there they expected you to as tank have at lest four difrent specs of a premade type or be bared from groups even if you could tank just as well with the single spec you had put up..

And i see this issue a lot ToR as well. Juggernauths being Dps specs and being lol'ed at. Sorcerers being Dps being loled at and so on.. Its ANNNOYING.. let people be what people want to be.

[maxetius]

this community is total garbage. most people that play swtor live to be total toolsheds. ?

 

 

this. the game is enjoyable. the community is horrible.

 

I blame WoW and its evolution. played WoW for years. the players went from an actual community to a bunch of *********** silent bobs, then they migrated here. it shows.

 

 

also the elitist... yeah it was bad after release, but most of them have quit already. Kath hound was full of D bags especially in PVP. Not so anymore, they all ragequit pn general chat and went back to WoW.

[CorellianWannabe]

To me this is just another symptom of the Baldur's Gate Syndrome.

 

People have been conditioned by MMOs to assume that all players are just lively NPCs, waiting for the chance to interact with the mighty hero. As NPCs, they cannot feel pain or be lonely, right? Furthermore, what kind of weirdo has a conversation with inanimate objects?

 

I continually try to get people involved on my server, Juyo. We are not a steland. There are anywhere from 30 people in non-prime to 70 in prime time. People flat out REFUSE to communicate, unless said communication is to be nasty (which, I don't mind, since then at least something happens).

 

I spent last night on an alt trying to coax one of the 62 people to help with a 4 man. I already had a tank and healer along (any social people I immediately make friends with) and had been mixing in recruitment messages with others trying to get people to interact. I then started sending private messages to people, only to find 11 had me ignored. They ignored me for talking in the general chat, which must have been so depressing to see someone being social. Poor babies.

 

The easy thing to do would be to retreat into gchat and never say another word. But then I think of all the nice players that quit after being ignored or are silent because no one broke the ice.

 

I would ignore you too-if you keep asking and asking and asking "lf1m for (fill in name of mission)". If I didn't reply then I'm not interested, and bothering me with intrusive whispering is borderline harassment in my book. Did you think I didn't see your endless messages in general? If you think I had general turned off then why would I want to team with anyone, much less you?

 

Why should I waste the time doing a heroic that gives crap rewards for the effort expended just to 'make new friends', when those friends are the sort that would pester people to get THEIR heroic done? If I'm going to bother with group activities I'll do the flashpoints that actually give gear worth the effort, although not much given the prevalence of orange gear which makes keeping it up to date a breeze.

[iEuthanasia]

I would ignore you too-if you keep asking and asking and asking "lf1m for (fill in name of mission)". If I didn't reply then I'm not interested, and bothering me with intrusive whispering is borderline harassment in my book. Did you think I didn't see your endless messages in general? If you think I had general turned off then why would I want to team with anyone, much less you?

 

Why should I waste the time doing a heroic that gives crap rewards for the effort expended just to 'make new friends', when those friends are the sort that would pester people to get THEIR heroic done? If I'm going to bother with group activities I'll do the flashpoints that actually give gear worth the effort, although not much given the prevalence of orange gear which makes keeping it up to date a breeze.

 

And you more or less take the cake as to why the community flat out sucks.

 

I do indeed spam the "LFM" rhetoric when I'm looking for people to complete a given task. Be it a Flashpoint, Heroic Area, or just a quest that I'm having trouble with. I try and keep the spamming to a minimum. I watch the area people counter. I check the people at my current location to make sure that I'm not sending out spam to the same group of people. Sometimes I do whisper people in addition, usually as an act of frustration and only as a last resort. I lost track of how many times leveling up I had to use the "Paying 10k for XXXX class to assist with heroic area/quest/flashpoint." I can count on one hand the number of time I had someone respond and say "Keep the money, I'll help for free."

 

That being said, I try and help anyone I can if people are looking for one more to do something and I happen to be the archetype that fills out that group. It doesn't matter if I get gear upgrades from it, it doesn't matter if I already did the quest/flashpoint, and it doesn't even matter if the people I group with become my BFF's afterwards. Sometimes it's about helping people out without personal gain. You could be looking to run a hardmode or Op later and that person you helped long ago will remember you and offer assistance.

 

Paying it forward works in MMO's too.

[Rasler]

I totally agree on my server I never see population on the fleet pass 80 and it is impossible to to a Flashpoint. I have been 50 for a few weeks now and have run one hardmode and never run an operation. I want to see end game but there is no community you spam LFG for about 30 mins to an hour then give up because no one runs anything. There needs to be a LFG tool, cross-server LFG tool, or fewer servers (or all of the above) on the point of servers, we don't need around 80 servers not including the Europe and Asia ones.

[Alcarinn]

I totally agree on my server I never see population on the fleet pass 80 and it is impossible to to a Flashpoint. I have been 50 for a few weeks now and have run one hardmode and never run an operation. I want to see end game but there is no community you spam LFG for about 30 mins to an hour then give up because no one runs anything. There needs to be a LFG tool, cross-server LFG tool, or fewer servers (or all of the above) on the point of servers, we don't need around 80 servers not including the Europe and Asia ones.

 

My old server had 70 people fleet on prime time... now i roleld other realm (Signature) and have 200+ people on EITHER fleets (empire even slightly more) on prime times and server is Heavy to Very Heavy... and i complain no more its awesome lvling again with 150 people on Dromund Kaas and 30+ on Hutta and Tython 60+

[Blacklynx]

It's difficult to put a blame in a specific group (players or developers). On one side the developers just want to make the most cash out of the game, Blizzard made a big study into several mmo´s and decided to cater for the casual player, those complaining in the forums that forced grouping was wrong and they wanted to play without need for grouping. Therefore WoW was a huge hit with these ppl. Nowdays most mmo developers simply follow that style looking for a quick buck while sometimes adding some new "features" so they're not called wow clones.

 

SWtor unfortunately falls in that category, where the new feature is the class story. It's quite fun but maybe not enough to be called different.

 

On the other side are the players, they got used to solo the content as fast as possible to go raid at endgame, then they complain there's not enough to do. Group to get what they want/need (and sometimes steal it). Posts before mine show better examples than i can on what's wrong here.

 

As for myself, i started in mmo's around 8-9 years ago with Anarchy Online (nice to see someone else from there) Grouping wasn't mandatory but if you wanted to level at a decent pace nothing could replace a good group. Maybe because of that the community was amazing. If you needed help on a quest or needed to grind some mobs for an item, just say it in chat and ppl wouldl come to help, i remember sometimes too many ppl appearing, almost made me feel pity on the mobs. A friend/guildie/guild where a friend was needed ppl to defend/clear a dungeon? no problems. Needed a crafter (because crafting was important and not all reached high levels in it) ask for it and sooner or later one would appear OR check if a specific player you knew/was known for that was online and ask him for help. Good days those.

 

I despise forced grouping and repeating content.

However grouping for a purpose/giving groups some bonuses/make grouping fun is the biggest issue, as far as i'm concerned, in current day mmo's. Grouping in raids just for loot mean nothing to me, i do the raid/ops once to see it and i'm done. Of course if a friend/guildie needs help with it i'm game but i won't be looking for it again. I was very pleased with Esseles/Black Talon, Fun Group Content with different paths depending on your choices (need a few more choices there to be even better) but was very disapointed in the 2 after them (they're just overgrown heroics) so i stopped trying them.

 

Then i reach endgame and what do i have? repeating ops/fps/dailies. This i blame directly on the developers, it basically shows no imagination in endgame. I have 2 50's and only did the dailies once, so i'm leveling alts, wich bores me alot because 80 to 90% of the quests i already did (making different choices in some but see no real difference in quests flow so far), class quests are fun and involving (most of them) but it's a really slow leveling.

 

IMHO SWtor needs Fun Group Content like esseles/black talon on the planets as well not just fp's. World/planet events where ppl need to join up to do them (gw2 seems to go this way, i hope they make it). RP events designed and prepared by players with the full support from GMs/Devs. And lastly some kind of random missions in endgame so it's not the same thing over and over.

 

ps: damn typos

Edited April 2, 2012 by Blacklynx

[Vellusix]

I think this game has plenty of content. I also think that it's not the MMO makers who need to create community...it's the players who have to create community. It's easy enough to do. Our server always has tons of people talking in general chat- on almost every planet.

 

It's the community's responsibility to create community. All we have to do is make it happen.

 

It's not the community's responsibility to create a community at all. The game should encourage and incentivise us to interact with each other and create an in-game community but it doesn't, at all.

 

I have to agree with the OP; for an MMO it really just feels like I'm playing solo most of the time. And now that most of the Oceanic players have left Jekk Jekk the server is DEAD. Just trying to get a flashpoint group together is so difficult it's not even funny. Friends of mine log on now maybe twice a week. I might do the same, sometimes not at all.

 

I'll probably unsub soon. The game isn't really that satisfying. Just communicating is awkward enough compared to a game like WoW where chatting to people is so easy. In SWToR it takes effort because of the clunky interface.

 

Meh, pretty bored tbh and I think a lot of other people are getting horribly bored as well. Won't be around long I wouldn't think.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Vellusix

[Karkais]

The players are people playing this game for fun. Theres only so much you can expect them to do.

[CorellianWannabe]

And you more or less take the cake as to why the community flat out sucks.

 

So me not wanting to be bothered by whispers means I'm respsonsible for the death of the fabled community. Good to know. It couldn't be the piss-poor lfg system, right?

 

I do indeed spam the "LFM" rhetoric when I'm looking for people to complete a given task. Be it a Flashpoint, Heroic Area, or just a quest that I'm having trouble with. I try and keep the spamming to a minimum. I watch the area people counter. I check the people at my current location to make sure that I'm not sending out spam to the same group of people. Sometimes I do whisper people in addition, usually as an act of frustration and only as a last resort. I lost track of how many times leveling up I had to use the "Paying 10k for XXXX class to assist with heroic area/quest/flashpoint." I can count on one hand the number of time I had someone respond and say "Keep the money, I'll help for free."

 

That being said, I try and help anyone I can if people are looking for one more to do something and I happen to be the archetype that fills out that group. It doesn't matter if I get gear upgrades from it, it doesn't matter if I already did the quest/flashpoint, and it doesn't even matter if the people I group with become my BFF's afterwards. Sometimes it's about helping people out without personal gain. You could be looking to run a hardmode or Op later and that person you helped long ago will remember you and offer assistance.

 

Paying it forward works in MMO's too.

 

I give to charity in real life- I don't need to in a freaking video game. Do you volunteer at soup kitchens and such or does your generosity end when you log off?

 

So if you have so many friends why do you need to spam general chat? Shouldn't there be enough of these people you have helped out online at any given moment who would be willing to drop everything to help you out?

 

A more likely scenario is unless they obsessively keep notes they forget you the moment the group disbands. I know if I got a whisper from someone who added me to friends after one group mission a month prior I would put them on ignore as well. It's like the person you met at a party one time acting like your best friend when you see them again-it's awkward and more than a little creepy.

 

See if I don't care about raiding then I don't need to keep exhaustive lists of good and bad players. Actually if I cared about raiding I would a join a guild and not need to rely on random players at all.

[Jeffor]

I agree and, sadly, this appears to be by design. FOr some reason or another BW has fought against community building. Apparently, they feel that a sense of community isn't important to an MMO. I guess they are showing their inexperience in the MMO field. Simple features, like server forums, that are pretty much standard in MMOs have been shunned in this game. NOt only that but BW fought, tooth and nail against server forums. TO me that's kind of screwed up. Of all battles to fight they fight against community building.

 

It's not just the forums either (even though they are terrible). Game chat hides itself aiding in the effort to hide the rest of the player base from you. The heavily instanced planets further fragment the community. The list goes on but you can just log in for yourself and see.

 

So here we are. A nice game that is certainly fun but it's basically an online single player game. The worlds are sometimes vast but feel dead because BW, apparently isn't interested in online communities. As long as you can play and they get their money a community isn't needed. I mean why would actually fight against server forums? That one little thing really, really made me wary of BW. They claimed that it was because they couldn't moderate them. Really? They can boast about how many millions of players are playing and buying the game yet they can still pull the "we can't afford it " card when it comes to forum moderation. That's just one example too.

 

It would be nice to see live events and people getting to know each other but that kind of thing will have to be taken up by the players because BW isn't concerned about the community or lack thereof. Heck, it's hard to find a guild in this game. You basically need a third site and that's just ridiculous. This is why TOR is a back-up game right now.

[Jeffor]

Everything you stated is "wrong" with SWToR. Is the reasons I left WoW. I want to play a game not listen to or argue with trolls that find more fun in spam and trolling then playing the game.

 

 

THis post is rly your issue with ToR?

 

 

just go back to WoW and enjoy your fanboies playing pandabear pokemon. And talking crap all day.

 

This is your TOR community in a nutshell. Lucky us.

[Darnu]

The lack of functions isn't really the crux of it, it's just that generally people play the game and do group content to meet people, rather than it be the other way around. Having content blocked off until you've already met people will result in just that - content remains blocked off. * It seems the rush of players more into group content is over and they're less active or not playing now. So now the population leans more towards people who like to do their own thing in their own time, or are intimidated by other people etc. So no, it's got nothing to do with a lack of function so much, but the lack of design functions don't make it easier or more comfortable for people. And having the population spread out over so many servers really does reduce your access to people who want to be sociable. And not everyone's logged on with the intention of staying on long enough for group content. Just logging on to do something quickly before they get to their real life etc. Basically, humans themselves are are often barriers to a game being a group experience. It's not a design function, but keeping out ways to break down human barriers as well as design barriers tends to make massive differences. I don't think Bioware has placed much value in that way of thinking, and so the game relies on having players who are more confident, outgoing and everything else required to make a sociable game social when players are in the main, complete strangers. Oh. * And when you're in the world questing, the detail of the integrated questhelper and transports etc kind of puts you into auto-pilot mode. The cinematics and cutscenes kind of put you in a trance. Every mob is all aoe aoe aoe. So force storm, force storm, revification if it's needed and maybe a force storm or loot. rinse and repeat. If you weren't sleepy before you logged on you are after. It really is like watching a movie, and seems to have the same effect hypnotically. You say you're encountering robots? Scientifically you are. We're all in a trance, half asleep. COZ IT PLAYS LIKE YOU'RE WATCHING TV.

 

There was another question about why people aren't really interested in teamwork, so I'll paste my post about that - not the same question but has similarities that could be relevant:

 

coz you can't emote while mounted to break the ice when you see someone

 

but seriously, half the time you're in a cutscene where you can't see your chat so any conversations get cut off, * people are too busy being all immersed and have no time for other people, * they're working on solo content to unlock transport to points near group content, * they're new to the server and are so overwhelmed by the 20-25 people (which I don't think I've ever seen past Alderaan) they take it for granted that when they're looking for people and everything's gtg for them then people will still be there, * bad mood? * shy? * lack of social confidence around strangers? * not interested in group content? * they're in queues for warzones? * don't want the xp loss grouping solo content creates? idk, I've thought about this and wondered why too... also, been guilty of some of the above at times. * Seems in Fleet anything that's not LFG spam confuses people, * don't want to get a Trade Troll rep, * worried about getting popular if they're not confident in they're playing ability so end up attracting a lot of bad attention, or attention that turns bad (remember, the idea of keeping LFG single server is so we all know who the bads are so we don't group with them - and that's central to not destroying a community apparently). Can think of some reasons, but overall I just don't get it.

 

Blizzard made a big study into several mmo´s and decided to cater for the casual player

I think that had more to do with QQ on forums about how no-one could down content until it was nerfed, attunements and key requirements led to a LOT of guilds poaching, the fact flasks weren't that great meant BC was like one giant farm-fest for consumables for raids, requiring resistance gear meant everyone in the raid farming resistance gear specifically for content, the fact that people complained about the quests being non-linear and when you don't read the quest text it's hard to follow a story, so they had to make it more blatant that you were, actually, following stories, and the fact that level cap kept increasing, so creating a new character didn't mean 60 levels, it meant 80 and since then it's just kept going up, the dungeons for people levelling were largely unused etc more than anything. But yes, they absolutely did go over the top and make it so to work anything out as a new player you didn't need to talk to anyone or work out anything - you just get your hand held and follow the line. But having said that, a lot of their players are getting older and have less time to play. That was a major driving factor in their design.

 

But the recent decision since the "success" of Lich King nerfs to consider nerfing content which wasn't overtuned? I don't get it at all. For some reason they've started considering 30% of all players finishing current progression content a success and any less is a failure. And if they see average players and groups (even random pugs) wiping 5 times they consider it too hard. That makes NO sense at all.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Darnu

[Capt_Reaper]

Started reading this thread and this is what went through my head:

 

- Read title, become interested

- read several posts, discover it's not another "feature x is not to my taste so everyone must know"

- skip to the end before someone belittles the game for exactly that reason.

- post my thoughts

 

I used to go on B.net to read up on the Halo Reach updates and soon discovered that the forum was a breeding ground for trolls. "Armour lock is Op, plz nerf HARD", "Bloom is silly, take it away coz I cnt get killz like teh MLG" and so on... A feature of the game that required skill was a bad thing? Really?

 

TOR was released so I dived into the forums and luckily I beat the "make them game meet expectation X or else it is a fail"...well mostly. Now, I consider my views on many games to be fairly unbiased (growing up I wanted to review games so that stuck to me). I look at TOR and I see issues. We all do. What we forget is that it is still a new game and is learning to walk. WoW may have been just as bad if not worse, I can't say as I never played it until a month before Cata. What I can say is that if it was, who would have noticed? MMO's were new, and WoW was all shiney and amazing.

 

Today's gaming culture seem to look for every problem in a game and then cry about it as loud as CAPS allow one to. Developers then make said changes, the community then replies "Your new patch/add-on/title-update is fail. You made thing X from OP to useless, but now thing Y is OP/useless as well. Plz fix or I will quit the game."

 

I love TOR. It has rekindled my love for Star Wars. I love the gameplay. I play to quest, something WoW couldn't deliver. It was dungeons or nothing. I thought I, the paying player, decide what is fun? I do love dungeons in TOR too, however I am not the best player under pressure and unless I am with people I know I am apprehensive to partake in them because trash talk has gone from the "Lol at that guy. Better luck next time" to "**** YUU n00b! DO YUR JOB AND DPS/HEALZ!! FAIL!!! JUST QUIT!!! followed by a boot because I am unfamiliar with the dungeon and made a tiny mistake.

 

In conclusion, I agree with the OP in that this game is not terrible (neither is WoW, Halo, Cod, Crysis...ok I'm a shooter fan. Sue me), it is the community that has to develop themselves. Patch your views on the game before you patch the game.

[Xenrae]

I am still trying to get my head around the idea that guilds are part of the social problem... what?

 

I log on every day. Every day I have 20 - 30 people to hang out with, run FPs with, gear up with, chat about operations with, go do dailies with.... etc.

 

What is not social about that? If you're not a guild type person, don't join one. But complaining that they make the game anti-social just makes you anti-intelligent.

 

Game needs time to grow. Let it. Resist the urge to post in the forum every time you find something negative to say, in whatever tiny corner of the enormously gigantic world they've generously created for you to adventure in.

 

Zepp

[CorellianWannabe]

I am still trying to get my head around the idea that guilds are part of the social problem... what?

 

I log on every day. Every day I have 20 - 30 people to hang out with, run FPs with, gear up with, chat about operations with, go do dailies with.... etc.

 

What is not social about that? If you're not a guild type person, don't join one. But complaining that they make the game anti-social just makes you anti-intelligent.

 

So your 'community' consists of 20-30 people?

[ScarletBlaze]

Some people feel more comfortable communicating with people in their guild or their friends they know than everyone on a specific planet.

 

Regardless whether you say this is the internet there are still shy people that will not feel comfortable with just anyone.

 

I know I feel more comfortable with my guild and friends than I do on general and I only group with them as I know them and know that if we mess up no one is going to get mad or start mouthin off blaming everyone.

 

 

Does that mean I will ignore someone that runs pass me that says hello, no I say hello. You can't expect everyone to want to talk in general.

[ScarletBlaze]

So your 'community' consists of 20-30 people?

 

And consindering there is usually only about 20 people on a specific planet what is the difference.

[CorellianWannabe]

And consindering there is usually only about 20 people on a specific planet what is the difference.

 

No difference to me, just noticing people saying that interacting in their bubble of 20 players means they are social.

[Darnu]

I agree and, sadly, this appears to be by design. For some reason or another BW has fought against community building. Apparently, they feel that a sense of community isn't important to an MMO. I guess they are showing their inexperience in the MMO field. Simple features, like server forums, that are pretty much standard in MMOs have been shunned in this game. NOt only that but BW fought, tooth and nail against server forums. TO me that's kind of screwed up. Of all battles to fight they fight against community building.

 

They fight everything I just don't get it a all.

 

I didn't like being told that it was important to demonstrate that I grasped the basics of being social in a mission. That was rough. THEN I found out that the group quests on the planet? They don't even HAVE conversations. So you can't even get social points to do the mission

 

 

SWTOR needs duelling. There's no way to learn about other classes etc other than to roll one yourself. It seems like no-one's really too interested in talking about their character and abilities etc and what you can do etc or gameplay. Yes, there should be an option to auto-decline or not to accept them, but if you meet someone and are talking to them and want to play around with them you should be able to. Instead of being limited to the oh so serious business of doing missions, levelling or spamming together.

 

Also, the blindingly obvious - crafting. When creating new characters unlocks buffs and abilities etc if you create other characters, logic dictates that a lot of people will also use these characters for crafting and gathering materials, so there's no need for sociability on that front. And asking someone to make something for someone does mean waiting for the item to be crafted and mailed to you COD later. It can't be made on the spot and sold. That in itself limits a big chunk of sociability from the game. Fair enough gathering missions take time, but crafting items should not. But when everyone can have almost every crafting profession themselves, that severely limits the viability of crafting as a way of being sociable. No need to talk to other people, let alone chat and make friends.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Darnu

[Alcarinn]

No difference to me, just noticing people saying that interacting in their bubble of 20 players means they are social.

 

First go learn what social really means...

 

so·cial   [soh-shuhl] Show IPA

adjective

1.

pertaining to, devoted to, or characterized by friendly companionship or relations: a social club.

2.

seeking or enjoying the companionship of others; friendly; sociable; gregarious.

3.

of, pertaining to, connected with, or suited to polite or fashionable society: a social event.

4.

living or disposed to live in companionship with others or in a community, rather than in isolation: People are social beings.

5.

of or pertaining to human society, especially as a body divided into classes according to status: social rank.

 

So yes interacting with 1 or more human beings = SOCIAL... now keep that in mind

[CorellianWannabe]

First go learn what social really means...

 

so·cial   [soh-shuhl] Show IPA

adjective

1.

pertaining to, devoted to, or characterized by friendly companionship or relations: a social club.

2.

seeking or enjoying the companionship of others; friendly; sociable; gregarious.

3.

of, pertaining to, connected with, or suited to polite or fashionable society: a social event.

4.

living or disposed to live in companionship with others or in a community, rather than in isolation: People are social beings.

5.

of or pertaining to human society, especially as a body divided into classes according to status: social rank.

 

So yes interacting with 1 or more human beings = SOCIAL... now keep that in mind

 

So Charles Manson and his Family were social rather than antisocial personalities?

[Alcarinn]

So Charles Manson and his Family were social rather than antisocial personalities?

 

social personality =/= BEING SOCIAL

 

*sigh*