Medpacks... are you kidding me?!?!!?!?

[Urkanan]

Oh? Really?

 

I could never have to do with a strong enemy "teleporting" into a combat that already had a strong patroller join the fight.

It could never have to do with a characters health bar being static, and then have the past 15-20 seconds worth of damage finally show up and wipe out all of the characters remaining health in one go.

It could never have to do with buggy combat that every so often attacks seems to do quadruple damage (both for players and mobs).

 

It has to be player error. No chance it could be the game at all, could there?

 

Looking at the issues you mention, it looks to me like you have a serious case of conection spikes with the server more than anything else.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Urkanan

[Blaac]

Looking at the issues you mention, it looks to me like you have a serious case of conection spikes with the server more than anything else.

 

I assumed he was referring to the fights where random mobs that are nowhere near your combat radius join in the fight when they should not. As can be seen on a regular basis in the first Imperial zone of Tatooine. The camp just south of the small Jawa camp in the NE side of the map. If you pull any of the 3 groups on the outside of the camp... as soon as 1 target dies ALL of the other groups, and usually a pat, join in the fight.

 

This isnt the only place this happens... its just one example I can think of that can be consistently observed.

[Quinlynn]

So......you don't know what type of armor a Sentinel can wear.......seems very odd to me. Sentinel can ONLY wear medium armor and I don't have that snazzy force armor sages have. Saber Ward is comparable to the Shadow tank damage mitigation skill but not the same. It's not a matter of being awesome, it's simply a matter of learning to play within the class properly.

 

As others have pointed out reuseable medpacs are simply a credit save nothing more. They aren't on par with prototype medpacs at all. The asinine assumption that the medpac hit has something to do with reuseables is ridiculous.

 

I know it is not light armor.

 

You mean that bubble that lasts a whole 30secs and doesn't always fire even when spamming the button.

 

I know all about med packs as a lvl 400 bio that actually makes them and uses them.

 

Nothing about med packs is OP'd. If they were theen PVP fights, 1 v 1 would last allot longer and peeeps would not need medis in FPs and OPs.

[Masturomenos]

People who are ok with this do understand what it means? If they have to go as far as medpacks change to balance the gae then guess what else they consider? That sorc bubbles need to be balanced around as well. Which means what boys nd girls'? That every ight will require a sorc.

 

Its not just the medpack its the fact the game will now no matter what revolve around 2 or 3 classes which raids and pvp groups will stack. Sure if ur ok with not doing content above the easy stuff then dont worr but if u like to prgress which is the point of mmos expct to have to roll diff class every patch

 

Its not 2LP its learn 2 develope. Make mechanics that revolvearound all classes in raids not one or two. U blind followers just don get the big picture. If medpacks r too hard to balance around what do u think other abilities will do to development? Sure wow does one time use but when they did they also made changes so every class had a self heal mechanic and we were compensated by the nerf and then develope fights all classes can do.

 

There is a clear cut hierarchy whn it omes to classes in this game with a steep drop off fter the top 2/3

[Urkanan]

This isnt the only place this happens... its just one example I can think of that can be consistently observed.

Not doubting your word here, of course, but I swear I have never noticed this in any of the 3 imperial chars I have put through Tatooine. Not in this planet or anywhere else, and honestly, random adds joining the fight has happened so scarcely over my whole gameplay that I probably put it down to a moment of distraction.

 

If anything, I am constantly surprised in the other direction: by the small aggro radius in this game (compared to WoW or WAR), by patrols walking (without aggroing) right past the spot where my companion is finishing some mob, etc.

 

 

Agin, maybe it's a matter of playstyle, and I don't go where you are going.

[Masturomenos]

Medpacks helped balance around not having perfect comp and for the players who play for fun and are so great at adapting how do u plan to do that when 1.2 comes out and u will need a sorc always as one of the two healers needed? This aswell as most changes are going to hurt the casual not the hardcore. The hardcore just stacks what works unlike casuals who like to play whats fun. So what u plan to do now fail to a happy night of raiding?

[Urkanan]

how do u plan to do that when 1.2 comes out and u will need a sorc always as one of the two healers needed?

 

Why is this? Rolling what until now was the most forgiving (I don't want to call it the easiest) healing class does not make you a good healer.

 

Maybe this is why some guilds keep struggling with HM? They insist in bringing a subpar healer because (s)he rolled a sorcerer?

Edited March 26, 2012 by Urkanan

[AzazaelLoki]

People who are ok with this do understand what it means? If they have to go as far as medpacks change to balance the gae then guess what else they consider? That sorc bubbles need to be balanced around as well. Which means what boys nd girls'? That every ight will require a sorc.

 

Its not just the medpack its the fact the game will now no matter what revolve around 2 or 3 classes which raids and pvp groups will stack. Sure if ur ok with not doing content above the easy stuff then dont worr but if u like to prgress which is the point of mmos expct to have to roll diff class every patch

 

Its not 2LP its learn 2 develope. Make mechanics that revolvearound all classes in raids not one or two. U blind followers just don get the big picture. If medpacks r too hard to balance around what do u think other abilities will do to development? Sure wow does one time use but when they did they also made changes so every class had a self heal mechanic and we were compensated by the nerf and then develope fights all classes can do.

 

There is a clear cut hierarchy whn it omes to classes in this game with a steep drop off fter the top 2/3

 

How about l2spell?

 

Just to see how this change will effect us, my guild has implemented a '1 health pack per fight' rule for our current raids. Guess what, it is still perfectly manageable. We did NiM EV in ~60 minutes from first to last kill.

 

The more I have thought about this the more I am fine with it, and agree with the comments of 'NiM shouldn't be accessible to everyone'. Maybe it makes me an elitist jerk, but NiM is something we worked up to, and I have no disillusions that it will completely **** us when the NiM for the new mode comes out.

[Mrip]

Someone posted earlier about not dropping out of combat in pvp. The same thing has happened to me. I've been stuck in combat, without performing any actions or being attacked, for quite a while.

[Stoicraven]

I know it is not light armor.

 

You mean that bubble that lasts a whole 30secs and doesn't always fire even when spamming the button.

 

I know all about med packs as a lvl 400 bio that actually makes them and uses them.

 

Nothing about med packs is OP'd. If they were theen PVP fights, 1 v 1 would last allot longer and peeeps would not need medis in FPs and OPs.

 

I never said anything about medpacs being op'd..........EVER. Your force armor that you can't seem to activate.....quit spamming the button. That whole 30secs it last it absorbs ALL damage, yeah pop off some heals -facepalm-

[Blattan]

Looking at the issues you mention, it looks to me like you have a serious case of conection spikes with the server more than anything else.

 

It doesn't matter.

 

Why? Because it isn't Player error. (Give me some slack, trying to point to a specific post, and it might take a few tries. Ehh, I've never gotten the forums to point to a specific post before (even when it claims to be redirecting to my own posts). So I can't tell if it is working. I'll quote the post just to make sure people know the post I am referencing.)

 

At first I too thought this was a huge mistake. Then however I started playing within my spec Jedi Sentinel Watchmen. From there I started gearing with the correct mods based on the skills I was using i.e. crit hits for heals. Then from there I started using a rotation properly, with interrupts, saber ward etc. Medpacs are not needed 95% of the time. That other 5% is typically due to player error i.e. being to hasty, missing an interrupt, out using my burns, or something as simple as WAITING between combat.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Not doubting your word here, of course, but I swear I have never noticed this in any of the 3 imperial chars I have put through Tatooine. Not in this planet or anywhere else, and honestly, random adds joining the fight has happened so scarcely over my whole gameplay that I probably put it down to a moment of distraction.

 

If anything, I am constantly surprised in the other direction: by the small aggro radius in this game (compared to WoW or WAR), by patrols walking (without aggroing) right past the spot where my companion is finishing some mob, etc.

 

 

Agin, maybe it's a matter of playstyle, and I don't go where you are going.

 

Just like those of different sexual orientation from you deserve (or don't) different rights from you, or people of different skin color are lesser beings than you.

 

Because you don't suffer it, it isn't worth considering. It isn't worth considering so much you must point out that you don't suffer it. Just for the sake of pointing out that you don't suffer it.

 

Helpful, that.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Blattan

[Quinlynn]

I never said anything about medpacs being op'd..........EVER. Your force armor that you can't seem to activate.....quit spamming the button. That whole 30secs it last it absorbs ALL damage, yeah pop off some heals -facepalm-

 

Does not stop all damage.

[Blaac]

Does not stop all damage.

 

But it can be recast after 20 seconds (less if specced)... negating 2 attacks every 20 seconds isnt useful??? Cuz my operative would love it over his 45 CD shield probe that I can only cast on myself.

[Raeln]

As it has always been and should be. Is it a slip or are you purposefully equalling HardMode with "raiding content"?

 

I really do not know why there is a sudden feeling that everyone should be raiding if they want to, and if they can't then the difficulty needs to be brought down.

 

 

I am not a hardcore raider myself, so I know NmM is realisticly out of my reach. What I will never understand is why people who, like me, lack the skill or the time or the commitment, or several of them, demand that the endgame should be tuned to their level, leaving those more skilled, more commited, and with less real life things to take care of without a challenge in the game.

 

Seriously, what is people's motivation in this? The content is the same at NmM than you see in Story Mode, so it is not about content. Is it "purplez" then?

 

 

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, I do understand your point, but this game design hardly qualifies as casual content, and pretending that max difficulty needs to be brought down to fit "the mayority of the player base", when there is extremely easy SAME content available for them makes little sense to me.

 

Catering NmM for the casual not only renders SM pointless, it also reduces your player base. The mayority that was already being catered for will stay and boost their epeen, and the hardcore will leave because the game has no challenge to offer to them.

 

People who call themselves "casual" need to understand that there is a downside to it: hardcore players will always look cooler, be stronger, play better and win more often than you. Casually live with it.

 

The medpack "fix" applies to storymode just as much as it does to hardmode and nightmare mode. I am doing hardmodes and I just do not like to see devs take what I view as the easy road when trying to balance their game content. Medpacks, as they currently are, barely dent an 18 to 26k hitpoint pool so to insinuate that using them two times per boss encounter was "making healing too easy" is .... not ringing as truthful to me.

 

Medpacks heal about 5k. Most enrage timers are currently 6 minutes. The current cooldown is 90 seconds. At most, the medpack could be used 3 times (4 if used for the health increase before the pull). Realistically, who is going to pop a medpack at the very beginning of the encounter anyway? Ideally, there would be two medpacks popped if the healers weren't on the ball. 2 * 5000 = 10k health. Do the developers really think 10k health is that big of a deal? The boss hits that hard on one attack many times.

 

I say the better way to address medpack spamming is to attach a debuff to them. Feel free to pop a medpack if you are about to die, the downside being you get a 20 second debuff where you do 10% less damage/healing. There's your trade-off and a pretty good discouraging factor to not spam medpacks unless they are necessary. There is no need for an ignorant "one use per combat cycle" rule like WoW has.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Raeln

[Raeln]

How about l2spell?

 

Just to see how this change will effect us, my guild has implemented a '1 health pack per fight' rule for our current raids. Guess what, it is still perfectly manageable. We did NiM EV in ~60 minutes from first to last kill.

 

The more I have thought about this the more I am fine with it, and agree with the comments of 'NiM shouldn't be accessible to everyone'. Maybe it makes me an elitist jerk, but NiM is something we worked up to, and I have no disillusions that it will completely **** us when the NiM for the new mode comes out.

 

Why don't you try it in Columi gear (no Rakata at all) and see if you can still do the "1 medpack" rule.

 

Rakata gear is quite overpowered compared to the realistic gear level that many guilds attempt their first hardmodes in.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Raeln

[AzazaelLoki]

Why don't you try it in Columi gear (no Rakata at all) and see if you can still do the "1 medpack" rule.

 

Rakata gear is quite overpowered compared to the realistic gear level that many guilds attempt their first hardmodes in.

 

We had 3 members in less than columi, and only 2 were full rakata. My group runs at least 1 normal a week with alts that have no gear, and only takes 2 geared people, we still don't have a problem.

[Kleve]

There is no need for an ignorant "one use per combat cycle" rule like WoW has.

 

;);););)

[SantiagoDraco]

Changes such as this are never requested by the community. However, it makes encounters easier to design around. Medpacs are the emergency, going to die, need health instantly type item. Being able to use them several times throughout the fight mitigates the encounter. This type of change was required for balance.

 

Funny, other games don't seem to have a problem designing encounters with heal potions in the game. I guess BW is an exception. Maybe new designers are needed. (sarcasm off).

 

It's a sad state of affairs though when the designers take the easy route to balance something with an apparent lack of concern for the overall affect.

[Hxxr]

I am a Biochemist, as are 6 other people in my raid.

 

On all but 3 Bosses (J+S, Soa and XRR3) we use Medpacs to our healers convenience ... just so they have to heal less.

 

There probably are 16 man raids around with more Biochem people and it does add up if you don't need your Medpac for emergencies - 240000 healing with 3 uses for 16 people.

That's a quite a bit and none of this will be overhealing as it's easy to time.

 

I don't like the 'once per foght rule' however. Adding another 30 to 60 seconds of cooldown (and resetting the cooldown when dying) would be a lot smoother and less restrictive with almost the same effect.

[Masturomenos]

How about l2spell?

 

Just to see how this change will effect us, my guild has implemented a '1 health pack per fight' rule for our current raids. Guess what, it is still perfectly manageable. We did NiM EV in ~60 minutes from first to last kill.

 

The more I have thought about this the more I am fine with it, and agree with the comments of 'NiM shouldn't be accessible to everyone'. Maybe it makes me an elitist jerk, but NiM is something we worked up to, and I have no disillusions that it will completely **** us when the NiM for the new mode comes out.

 

Wow way to live on the edge. How about you do NM and HM content with only BH healers now and after 1.2 o with only Op heals. Tell us how that goes before cming on here acting like ur gamebreaking by making a one medpack per fight rule.

[Masturomenos]

Its not only the medpack the games being designed around sorc bubbles aswell u will not be able to clear content without sorcs. Its a bad trend. Stop jumping in threads before going on ptr acting like you know whats up cause u useed one medpack. Also maybe ur the only one who even used one how do u prove no one else did? U have screenshots?

 

This isnt the only thread there are threads in the op, fpforum showing hard numbers. Stop taking a break from ur guild meeting about one medpack rles get on ptr then talk please. If ur happy go play or maybe go get mad at mcdonalds for having a suggstion box. I dont understand what people think forums are for. Its so people who dont lik something can say it. If u saw trends ud notice everythin people liked before 1.2 was changed also not just what they didnt. Go do ur FP with no pants or ur elite boss with only siths or smething.

 

Or maybe u can tell us about these so called underlying changes that are not in ptch notes? Only stat changed was expertise n guess what its in the patch notes.

 

Sorry for my spelling im unfortunately on a cell phone sitting on base dont have the luxury of two comps i got one to play on and phone to post on.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Masturomenos

[TheOnlyKyrenS]

simple lrn2play

[Blaac]

simple lrn2play

 

I'm pretty sure you just failed the internet.

[Ancaglon]

Please restrict this change to Hard and Nightmare mode Operations only. It's not really warranted anywhere else.

[bzImage]

Restore old medpacks, disable their usage in pvp, problem solved.