clovislefranc Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Well, I've seen the patchnote for sage. I play 0/21/20 Sage dps pvp... I'm sad because I'm quite a good player, i love what you did of the sage : all those crowd control, etc... Can heal himself, does correct damages... But I'm really sad about the "Presence of mind does now affects disturbance and min crush" only ; you're killing the spell "Telekinetic wave" by doing that, for this spec... I mean, i'm not like all those whiners, who think a nerf is not fair... The pvp dps sage need a nerf, it's clear, but not like that because, by doing that, the spec will be really boring to play and you can nerf the spec the same, but with another way... The nerf you're testing on the pts (and please, just don't apply it on the real servers) makes the class really BORING to play, kills the gameplay, etc... Be honest : 0/21/20 use 4 dps spells : TT, Mind crush, Telekinetic Wave, Weaken Mind. This nerf totally kills TW ; We will only be TT spammers, after 1.2 ... mc & wm are CD... If you do that, it would mean that you want the sage to look like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAq7P...layer_embedded but, doing 2x less damages... The sage isn't so "overcheated", it's a good class, but, before all, very easy to play! That's the power of the class. Other classes are really powerful, but much harder to play correctly... A good nerf, for me, could have been : - 10% less damages for Project - 10% less damages for Disturbance (Or not, if you don't want to nerf pve telekinetic) - 10% less damages for TT And, if you want to nerf the fact that sage can have 2 big instant AOE... - 25% less dmg on all the AOE of the sage (I'm a french player, i don't know all their names...) By doing that, you nerf the sage the same, but you don't totally kill the gameplay... Because the way you listened without think the whines of the whiners "nerf sage, nerf sorc" etc... You can't realize how much this update is badly done if your devs have never played 0/21/20... Another idea (Without "destroy" the gameplay quality of the class) I'm repeating myself, but : On Fr forums, someone has not understood that i WANT a nerf of the class, but if you do this nerf, the 0/21/20 will no longer exist, not because it will be too weak (Well, it will be weak, but, if u want that...) , but because it will be too buring to play her... We'll just have 1 spell to spamm for our damages... An equivalent nerf could be, because you seem to think that the ability of the sage to have 2 instant AOE is too powerful : - CD of Telekinetic wave : 6s -> 10s - CD of Force in Balance : 15s -> 25s - Telekinetic wave does 30% less damages - Force in Balance does 30% less damages Well, it's an idea : The point is : "Nerf the 0/21/20 sage spec, but without making her too boring to play" And if you want to nerf the pvp sage, not the pve sage, you can do : - Telekinec wave and Force in Balance do 40% less damages versus players My point is : You can nerf the sage by another ways, without killing the "fun" of a spec a lot of players love to play... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clovislefranc Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 Please, do not close this post and say : " Go to http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=363991 " This post is NOT adapted, it talks about the HEAL sage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewgal Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) The hybrid builds that used presence of mind to make Telekinteic wave instant are all dead with 1.2 as it stands. Telekinetic wave probably only becomes useful with deep TK spec and use of alacrity to speed your TK nuking up, if you still want to play that cast. The other option is deep balance where you'd use FiB along with your other DoTs, and possible Force Sever, which all get boosted by mental scaring, and that way you'd just spam TT for PoM and MC, with maybe project in between if you have upheaval. But, either deep TK or Balance you won't be playing like a hybrid. Edited March 22, 2012 by Ewgal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavnas Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Let's be honest for a second here. Normally hybrids are supposed to give up something that a pure spec is good at to get versatility. For example, a seer that loses the top tiers for more points in balance trades force recovery and AoE healing for more damage options. Currently, a balance sage that drops his top tier for points in TK gains damage and utility and loses nothing. That's not right from a balance perspective. From the standpoint of an individual skill point, PoM allows you to cast Disturbance, Mind Crush, and TK Wave instantly. The first is on a 13.5-15 second cooldown, the second isn't worth casting for a pure balance sage, and the third is something a pure balance sage won't have. So you have a tier 4 talent in a tree that primarily helps people specced in a different tree. That's wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbuschell Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) BW did a good job nerfing the hybrid spec where they failed was they didn't make the top tier dps talents any better. For balance spec they should of changed sever force into a castable dot protection spell that stuns the healer if cleansed, this one makes balance very viable and gives you another spell to use wrath(not sure what republic equiv is called) then just on mind crush. This would of made balance a very viable spec. For Tk well I don't know what they could of done make The top talent an insta cast nuke that added a crit % increase debuff Edited March 22, 2012 by jbuschell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dronepilot Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I got a level 33 DPS sage, I was levelling, through the TK tree with some on balance, so I can use upheaval, I am not even sure about playing this any more. Bioware, already killed my Shadow anyway in PVP, perhaps its time to do other things in life, than play a nerf an update wonder of a game. No, never buying another Bioware game again. They clearly have no idea what they are doing with this MMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clovislefranc Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) The hybrid builds that used presence of mind to make Telekinteic wave instant are all dead with 1.2 as it stands. Telekinetic wave probably only becomes useful with deep TK spec and use of alacrity to speed your TK nuking up, if you still want to play that cast. The other option is deep balance where you'd use FiB along with your other DoTs, and possible Force Sever, which all get boosted by mental scaring, and that way you'd just spam TT for PoM and MC, with maybe project in between if you have upheaval. But, either deep TK or Balance you won't be playing like a hybrid. You have the point. We will have to do another spec to have at least, an interesting skill rotation (Please dev if you see that, note the fact that i did not said "an interesting dps", cause i understand that you want to nerf our damages. I don"t really care about be nerfed on our DPS : I care of a good pvp balance, and for me, less damages on hybrid spec is essential). I've thought about a lot of others spec. Here's mine : http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#60...Rr0zZcrcRsMz.1 And there is a problem : For me, in TK tree : - Kinetic Colapse - Force Wake - Blockout - Telekinetic Effusion and in Balance tree : - Containment - Force in Balance - Pinning resolve are "Must have" talents to build a sage who wants to help his team to win a bg. To have a short CD force speed, force in balance, is useful for : - Avoid a bomb at voidstar (def) - Avoid a tagg at Alderande Short CD force speed is useful for huttball too... The cc talent (Kinetic colapse, Force Wake, Blockout, Containment, Pinning Resolve) are must have for... cc And the only way to have all those talents is to do a 0/21/20 (Or 0/18/23). Others hybrids, like 0/13/28, you have the Mental Scarring (Cool for damages), but you miss useful "Play for objective" talents. And, if i well understood, BW try to encourage the players to play the objective (By doing a wz system where objective is important). This nerf is nerfing a big part of the sage who want to play the objectives, and not so much 3/31/7 etc... (Now, again repeating myself xD Please, make a dev come here) The "Go objective" spec have a quite easy skill rotation : Spamm TT, TW when proc, MC when up and proc, refresh WM if necessary. I've tried to play without using the instant proc of TW, and it's really boring, not funny to play. 1 button class ... Srly... Please, we're at a MMORPG, not Super Mario... Some merc love the "Spamm missile" (overcheated) build, I can't understand them. You've wanted to stop this missile build? That's what you're going to encourage with hybrids sages. The http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#60...Rr0zZcrcRsMz.1 are gonna go on http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#60...Mr0zZcrcRsMz.1 I can undertand that BW thinks that the damages of the sages are too much important, I personally think that's not why our class is prefered in wz, but do they understand that they could nerf our damage by other ways (-40% damages on the AOE against players, for example), and by doing this, the fun we could have in our "not-very-skilled-recquired-skill-rotation" will still be here, but instant big damages AOE gone? Please, please devz : Think about make some modifications to your patch note... Errors can still be repaired.. Think about all the hybrid pvp consular who made their character hero warlord or those kind of things, that you're going to murder. (Cause they're going to be bored to death). Edited March 22, 2012 by clovislefranc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lugh Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 You can play as if the 1.2 changes are already live and you will find (running 23 tk 18 Balance) that the casting of disturbance rather than TK wave on PoM pops, does nothing, I repeat nothing, to your overall dps. Yes you may lose out on the 20% boost in damage for PoM on TK wave, but you won't on disturbance, and it will give you double boom 30% of the time, and it 'almost' makes up for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tufy Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 (edited) The hybrid builds that used presence of mind to make Telekinteic wave instant are all dead with 1.2 as it stands. Not dead, just different. Telekinetic wave is out, meaning that point can go to Seer tree crit instead. As a result, 1/12/28 will do nearly the same single target dps as full balance or full telekinetic, making it perfectly viable. Telekinetic wave probably only becomes useful with deep TK spec and use of alacrity to speed your TK nuking up, if you still want to play that cast. A full TK Sage does not cast TK Wave. Instead, he relies on Tidal Force (tier 4 talent) to make the ability instant. But, either deep TK or Balance you won't be playing like a hybrid. Exactly. Three different specs, very similar dps (actually, hybrid will still be a tiny bit ahead, but the difference is marginal), different pluses and minuses. All in all, the 1.2 change is a very good one, even though we'll suffer a nerf (which, let's face it, most of us have seen coming). You can play as if the 1.2 changes are already live and you will find (running 23 tk 18 Balance) that the casting of disturbance rather than TK wave on PoM pops, does nothing, I repeat nothing, to your overall dps. You shouldn't cast Disturbance on PoM, its dpct (damage per cast time) is lower than Telekinetic Throw's, even with 20% damage boost. The only reason to ever cast Disturbance there is if you have Mind Crush on target or on cooldown, PoM pops and you have to move. Edited March 27, 2012 by tufy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taishartrueblood Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 THe big problem is that the 31 talent spells are crap, utter crap. The healing one is great, obviously, but the other two suck. You do more damage spamming TT or TW then using those. Fix your trees if you want to nerf us into oblivion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakoby Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 (edited) BW did a good job nerfing the hybrid spec where they failed was they didn't make the top tier dps talents any better. For balance spec they should of changed sever force into a castable dot protection spell that stuns the healer if cleansed, this one makes balance very viable and gives you another spell to use wrath(not sure what republic equiv is called) then just on mind crush. This would of made balance a very viable spec. For Tk well I don't know what they could of done make The top talent an insta cast nuke that added a crit % increase debuff 100% Agree. Now that the nerf has destroyed the DPS spc hybrid I've been looking at ways to make my build usefull and I simply am not impressed with the top abilities. They suck, plain and simple. There is a way to get telekinetic wave to proc the way it used to but its only a 10% proc as opposed to 30 and you have to use the tremor spell instead of throw. Either way Sages and Sorc Hybrids were nerfed to the floor. I am now getting owned by Knights and Marauders who were given huge boosts. I was able to take out 3 solo in PvP on my guardian before I finally got taken down. Way to balance things out Bioware... Edited April 14, 2012 by Jakoby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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