p2p vs f2p

[cyberfreaq]

Doesn't really matter, the fact is they are adding them. It's not like you have to keep paying a sub-fee, you can always unsubscribe until the features you want are implemented. Your choice.

 

However it is really sad that you own a 60$ game (+ at least 30 days of subscription) and suddenly give up paying until new content will "maybe" be added.

 

Think about it, 15$ a month is the equivalent to 1+(1/2) DLC. There are a lot of people complaining about DLCs, but at least they are adding content to the original game. If you were subscribed since December, that means that you've already payed the price of the game all over again (4 times 15$), but didn't receive any new content in return. Except 1.2, which is not out yet, so it doesn't count.

 

And no, guild banks won't make this an mmo. It is still an instanced multiplayer rpg. So, as a customer, why pay the monthly fee again?

 

GW2 is an mmo, but are they asking for a monthly fee? Nope. They too have servers to maintain. They too have salaries to pay. They will make money by selling the expansions. But apparently, for them, it is enough.

TOR could do the same. Buy retail box, have microtransations (not expansions) and they can make money.

 

People are still biased when talking about f2p model, but there are so many games out there who made this model famous. LoL, Tribes Ascend. Cosmetic stuff in the item shop will be popular as hell, but it won't affect the gameplay or offer unfair advantages. What is the problem with f2p? Do people seriously believe that paying a monthly fee for a game automatically forces the devs to push out new content constantly? Yeah, right.

 

In the case of a f2p game you get what you pay for (items from the item shop). In case of p2p you are not getting 15$ a month worth of new content. You never do. It is just the illusion that a monthly fee makes a game better.

 

As a developer I can clearly see the advantages of a monthly sub, but as a consumer I just don't see the appeal or how does that benefit me in any way.

Edited April 4, 2012 by cyberfreaq

[kevlarto]

Depends on the F2p model.

 

The trend is cash shops to make money, I can see the writing on the wall, the days of the 14.99 sub based game will go the way of the dinosaur in the not to far future, I think you will see more games selling boxes and no sub like gw2, I think the big change will happen when wow goes free to play, which it will at some point, even the blizz execs have said once f2p becomes more profitable than subs they will make the change. With the amount of subs that wow has lost over the the last 4 quaters, if that trend keeps going it won't be that long.

 

Time will tell, Turbine brought DDO back form the brink of pulling to the plug to a huge cash cow, which kinda started this new round of f2p games that were not created to be a f2p game at launch. I can not see companies giving up box sales, thats a huge amount of money going to recoup development cost.

 

love them or hate them f2p cash shops are not going away, they are growing, If i like the game and it is well done i don't care if it is p2p or f2p, I am gona play what I like.

Edited April 4, 2012 by kevlarto

[RicoFrost]

$15 per month is really worth it considering how much game time and entertainment I get out of it. free to play would destroy the game.

[Darth_Moonshadow]

Depends on the F2p model.

 

The trend is cash shops to make money, I can see the writing on the wall, the days of the 14.99 sub based game will go the way of the dinosaur in the not to far future, I think you will see more games selling boxes and no sub like gw2, I think the big change will happen when wow goes free to play, which it will at some point, even the blizz execs have said once f2p becomes more profitable than subs they will make the change. With the amount of subs that wow has lost over the the last 4 quaters, if that trend keeps going it won't be that long.

 

Time will tell, Turbine brought DDO back form the brink of pulling to the plug to a huge cash cow, which kinda started this new round of f2p games that were not created to be a f2p game at launch. I can not see companies giving up box sales, thats a huge amount of money going to recoup development cost.

 

Problem is that F2P eventually become P2W, with purchasable EXP buffs and powerful weapons being marketed. When people realize that everything on the store can be obtained in game at a much later time, they chose to go the free route, especially if they pay themselves. Sure, some people will jump the gun once or twice and buy the item, but it's a rare occurrence unless they have a shopping addiction and then one well timed intervention shuts that wallet right up. By going P2W, it requires that the player MUST do so to keep up with the other loose cash dropping players or get dominated n whatever aspect of the game they enjoy. And any gamer with a shred of pride in himself would walk away rather than fund that sort of business model.

[cyberfreaq]

Problem is that F2P eventually become P2W, with purchasable EXP buffs and powerful weapons being marketed. When people realize that everything on the store can be obtained in game at a much later time, they chose to go the free route, especially if they pay themselves. Sure, some people will jump the gun once or twice and buy the item, but it's a rare occurrence unless they have a shopping addiction and then one well timed intervention shuts that wallet right up. By going P2W, it requires that the player MUST do so to keep up with the other loose cash dropping players or get dominated n whatever aspect of the game they enjoy. And any gamer with a shred of pride in himself would walk away rather than fund that sort of business model.

 

There is no guarantee that f2p will become p2w. DDO is a live example of that. How many years since that game was released? LoL, Tribes Ascend (although it is still in beta).

 

And I see that you classify xp boosters as buying power, why? It is just a convenience item for those who want to level up faster. That doesn't mean that they are buying power. At the end of the day they will get to level 50 without properly going through all the planets. Credits will be a problem (since you won't have to do all quests) and the experience will feel rushed. Where is the power in that?

 

Not to mention that xp boosters do not affect players who already have a level 50 character(s).

 

There clearly is a good f2p model, which is buying convenience and cosmetic items. And there is a HUGE market for these kind of items. A truckload of money can be earned by Bioware without selling armor (seriously, buying armor or weapons happens only in really bad Asian mmos - and I haven't seen/played one in ages).

 

Two of the three games I mentioned above had plenty of time (read years) to go the p2w route, but they didn't and most probably won't. Why would they, when the cosmetic stuff sells so well?

Tribes Ascend and STO give you the ability to earn Item Shop Currency by playing the game. In Tribes you are earning XP which unlocks the things you would get with real money.

And in STO you can gather Dilithium and exchange it for Cryptic Points (the items shop currency).

League of Legends has been selling skins for champions ever since they've launched the game. Until now there is no such thing as buying power, as extra stuff (minus the skins) can be obtained by playing!

 

And IF by chance you end up playing the f2p version of TOR in the near future and you will end up spending 15$ a month for basic items in the item shop, you will end up paying the same amount you are currently paying for the monthly subscription!

The upside is that it will be optional!

 

I really don't understand this hostility against free to play titles. It attracts millions of players, it is convenient, paying real money is completely optional (again, ignore the Asian grindfests) while also allowing the developers to earn money from simple things such a new skin.

Edited April 4, 2012 by cyberfreaq

[macumba]

I like the p2p model . for me (mmo-player for 10 years now) paying my sub is like the telephone bill.

[Darth_Moonshadow]

There is no guarantee that f2p will become p2w. DDO is a live example of that. How many years since that game was released? LoL, Tribes Ascend (although it is still in beta).

 

And I see that you classify xp boosters as buying power, why? It is just a convenience item for those who want to level up faster. That doesn't mean that they are buying power. At the end of the day they will get to level 50 without properly going through all the planets. Credits will be a problem (since you won't have to do all quests) and the experience will feel rushed. Where is the power in that?

 

Not to mention that xp boosters do not affect players who already have a level 50 character(s).

 

There clearly is a good f2p model, which is buying convenience and cosmetic items. And there is a HUGE market for these kind of items. A truckload of money can be earned by Bioware without selling armor (seriously, buying armor or weapons happens only in really bad Asian mmos - and I haven't seen/played one in ages).

 

Two of the three games I mentioned above had plenty of time (read years) to go the p2w route, but they didn't and most probably won't. Why would they, when the cosmetic stuff sells so well?

Tribes Ascend and STO give you the ability to earn Item Shop Currency by playing the game. In Tribes you are earning XP which unlocks the things you would get with real money.

And in STO you can gather Dilithium and exchange it for Cryptic Points (the items hop currency).

League of Legends has been selling skins for champions ever since they've launched the game. Until now there is no such thing as buying power, as extra stuff (minus the skins) can be obtained by playing!

 

And IFby chance you play the f2p version of TOR in the near future and you will end up spending 15$ a month for basic items in the item shop, you will end up paying the same amount you are currently paying for the monthly subscription!

 

Yes, some games do stick with the cosmetic only. But most games descend into Win territory when it becomes clear that players are either no longer interested in the pretty items (which they tend to usually do) or they too crazy with the spending and then the devs get greedy and try to pull a fast one.

 

And yes, EXP boosters do count as power. Hence why we call it, "Power leveling". And it's especially terrible when they do it in the starting zone and they start lording it over everyone else.

 

Also, do not bring LoL as an example. That's not free to play. You can spend over a thousand bucks on that game on those skins. That is so not free to play, that is virtual heroin and it is a freaking crime.

[cyberfreaq]

Yes, some games do stick with the cosmetic only. But most games descend into Win territory when it becomes clear that players are either no longer interested in the pretty items (which they tend to usually do) or they too crazy with the spending and then the devs get greedy and try to pull a fast one.

 

And yes, EXP boosters do count as power. Hence why we call it, "Power leveling". And it's especially terrible when they do it in the starting zone and they start lording it over everyone else.

 

Also, do not bring LoL as an example. That's not free to play. You can spend over a thousand bucks on that game on those skins. That is so not free to play, that is virtual heroin and it is a freaking crime.

 

Most (bad) games descend into Win territory. The western market is a lot different from the eastern one in terms of company and consumer preferences. In Asia, most players will pay for just about anything, so the companies are taking advantage of that situation.

I don't even want to name some of those horrible 2d, isometric, hack'n'slash rpgs where you can buy an epic weapon for 20 bucks. Those games are totally irrelevant in this discussion.

 

Here, people (for the most part) are much more demanding and won't stand for just about anything a company throws at them. So the developers will have to either adapt or die.

 

Why is not LoL free? Does it require you to buy those skins? It is the player who decides to spend money on stuff like that. Do the skins offer players special powers? Increased hp or mana? Increased damage? No, they don't. The game itself remains unchanged regardless of whether you have a skin or not.

 

The definition of buying power is paying real money for items that give you a gameplay advantage. Which means that players who choose not to spend money will be at a disadvantage. Buying skins is not buying power. Buying xp boosts is not buying power since the only thing it does is it reduces the times it take you to level. Once at end-game, that player is just as strong as the others who didn't use an xp boost.

Edited April 4, 2012 by cyberfreaq

[Darth_Moonshadow]

 

Why is not LoL free? Does it require you to buy those skins? It is the player who decides to spend money on stuff like that. Do the skins offer players special powers? Increased hp or mana? Increased damage? No, they don't. The game itself remains unchanged regardless of whether you have a skin or not.

[/b]

 

It is not required, yet people are buying them all in a matter of minutes of downloading the game because they somehow think that buying those skins will make them better players. It is a freaking placebo effect and no game should be enabling that sort of behavior. It is like Team Fortress 2 and the hats. It is a real problem and no one is doing anything about it.

 

People file bankruptcy over those skins.

 

 

In what universe does anyone classify a game that does that to people "free"?

Edited April 4, 2012 by Darth_Moonshadow

[Restepor]

If this ends up going free to play, I would rather continue to pay every month then pay for microtransactions.

[cyberfreaq]

In what universe does anyone classify a game that does that to people "free"?

No one is holding a gun to their head saying: "buy skins!"

They are the ones to blame, not the devs. But they are also the ones who we should thank for supporting the game stay alive. Because if no one would be buying those skins, the dev will go bankrupt.

 

 

If this ends up going free to play, I would rather continue to pay every month then pay for microtransactions.

 

STO and Champions Online have an interesting feature of letting players play for free and use real money for microtransactions or they can choose to pay a monthly sub and get that stuff for free (the game remains unchanged).

 

It is certainly a good idea to offer both subscription and free to play model at the same time.

Edited April 4, 2012 by cyberfreaq

[Darth_Moonshadow]

No one is holding a gun to their head saying: "buy skins!"

They are the ones to blame, not the devs. But they are also the ones who we should thank for supporting the game stay alive. Because if no one would be buying those skins, the dev will go bankrupt.

 

That is insane. There is no rational way to justify that sort of thing. If the dev has to go bankrupt, so be it, because that game is a money eater.

 

People should not be losing their homes because they had to buy just one more champion!

 

WHY IS THAT GAME NOT COVERED UNDER STATE DRUG LAWS?

 

I feel like there should be a police officer telling kids at a middle school to pass around an empty LoL box so they know what to avoid.

[cyberfreaq]

That is insane. There is no rational way to justify that sort of thing. If the dev has to go bankrupt, so be it, because that game is a money eater.

 

People should not be losing their homes because they had to buy just one more champion!

 

WHY IS THAT GAME NOT COVERED UNDER STATE DRUG LAWS?

 

I feel like there should be a police officer telling kids at a middle school to pass around an empty LoL box so they know what to avoid.

 

And maybe add a LoL Detoxification Clinic. Now I'm really going off-topic.

 

But yes, alternatives can be found. A very important aspect is that there is a lot of competition for TOR. No, I won't just mention "uau" or "guild attacks 2" or any of that sort.

Tribes or LoL got a lot of players, most of them will never buy/pay for another game, as long as they have their free form of entertainment they play for 2/10/100 hours a week.

 

The market is currently full of multiplayer games and mmos and it's got to the point where attracting new players from the competition is becoming more and more difficult.

 

I hate this expression, but TOR should "join the trend", because Bioware will win, the game will win (more players), players will win (free entertainment is good for blood pressure) and at the end of the day everyone will be happy.

Edited April 4, 2012 by cyberfreaq

[sithlordcip]

Yes I would play if it was F2P

[Agemnon]

Anyone see this game:

 

http://wl.igg.com/guide/item.php?acid=202

 

Only 16-bit graphics yet people spend an arm and a leg just to keep up. It's way more money than this game factoring in item mall stuff spanned across all of someone's accounts (you need to have more than one client open for you and all your alts to level and quest together).

[Vlacke]

P2P is good, SWTOR will remain subscription based for a long time in my opinion and i don't have a problem with that.

[DiabloDoom]

"F"2P is a model for cheap games that try to maximise on profit when they know that a monthly sub won't fulfill their greed.

[TakumiFujiwara]

I tried F2P a few times and wound up spending much more than $15 a month and as such am not a fan of this model. However it is the answer it seems to a drastic decrease in the player base and if SWTOR continues to see its player base shrinking it will surely follow the F2P model sooner rather than later, and that is when I quit playing this game which I really enjoy. I can see how this model would appeal to those who only get a few hours a month to play, but seriously most MMO's are such time sinks that these individuals will fall by the wayside whether the game is P2P of F2P, although the company can often bleed them for more than the $15 a month subscription fee for the few months they play before giving up due to lack of time. I like Star Wars, I like KOTOR, I like MMO's, but I hate F2P so much that none of those other things will keep me here if/when this game follows suit with so many others and goes F2P. F2P will almost inevitably lead to P2W and will certainly lead to a disproportionate amount of resources going to cosmetic upgrades that are paid instead of to creating new content which would be free. (If they charge for content then the game becomes by definition P2P)

[MystiQ]

Nope.

 

'nuff said

[cyberfreaq]

Nope.

 

'nuff said

 

Unfortunately that is not enough

 

 

F2P will almost inevitably lead to P2W and will certainly lead to a disproportionate amount of resources going to cosmetic upgrades that are paid instead of to creating new content which would be free.

 

The current content is not free, you know. You are paying 15$ a month for it.

Edited April 18, 2012 by cyberfreaq

[Drudenfusz]

Would you play this game if it wasn't pay to play and it was free to play with a cash shop with microtransactions?

Depends on how reasonable the MT is, it should stay away from pay to win.

[corbanite]

Would you play this game if it wasn't pay to play and it was free to play with a cash shop with microtransactions?

 

no

 

I would go and try other mmos waiting for a p2p one or just give up on the genre altogether and go back to pen and paper. same as i did when i stopped playing wow last year.

[JollyRogers]

Would you play this game if it wasn't pay to play and it was free to play with a cash shop with microtransactions?

 

Going to answer a question with a question:

 

Would you continue going to your favorite eating establishment if they gave the food away for free instead of making you pay for it?

 

Consider what the environment would be like.

[shabanezzi]

just installed a mmo that just went f2p and im having lots of fun with it, i doubt i will ever pay for being someones tester again

 

. Imho, the p2p is is on its way out, the game market is oversaturated with games ....hell i can get 2 good and pretty new multiplayer ps3 games for 30eu nowadays...or play mmos for years for free if i want, with lots more development time behind them as for instance swtor

 

To justify the p2p model, you really need to give players something worth paying for, once the novelty wears off of course

 

my 2 cents

[Ethice]

I would still play it, but I am afraid we would miss out new content. It would go boring fast, because there is so much we are still waiting for. Edited April 18, 2012 by Ethice