Sage/Sorc DPS nerf - why?

[L-RANDLE]

 

Now do you? Only thing that hurts is a good marauder, but that is still doable.

 

Also, if you are using force quake on anything but the doors, you're doing it wrong. Force quake is horribad.

 

Uber-skilled Juggs and Mercs (TM spammers excluded) too... They cause me headaches, but still doable... Forcequake is a stat padder.... I don't really use it it in PvP that much and it depletes your force pool something fierce...

[Samaul]

And by anyone you mean anyone that's not a pyro powertech, anni marauder, or darkness assassin? The only way you can win a 1v1 against an equally skilled and geared player of these three classes is if you have extremely good los where you can root them and then los constantly to heal as dots slowly kill them (and even then you will lose more than you win). If you disagree, please make a video of you beating these three classes in a 1v1 where you both have full cooldowns (and they must have the same gear level as you and be a competent player).

 

 

This response is correct. Sage/Sorc just does not have enough burst to 1v1 any dps class/spec with equivalent gear, especially melee. We will never kill anyone 1v1 by critting them for 2k when they are critting us for 4-10k no matter how skilled we are.

[Cleikauf]

Mercs we can't out dps, you need to LOS and interrupt because your life depends on it. With Juggs and Mercs, I try not to use dots. So I can use 4 sec stun>Pop reck / Adrenal / relic, 2x lighting and a CL (Stalker bonus FTW) then Deathfield, and they will pop trinket almost 100% of the time on the 4sec stun, just lift /whirlwind and if you don't get to use your 3rd charge just use the 2.5 sec heal ( I forgot what its called for empire, I play republic) heal to full and then dot and run! I know it feels "Cheap" but thats how I do it!

[Samaul]

No offense man but this is actually a buff to damage.

All you are looking at is the 4% reduced crit on an ability and the 6% dmg reduction on another ability. You are gaining 6% damage on 2 other abilities

 

As far as the healing goes did you really think double dipping on the healing was right?

 

Imo they barely even touched them

 

What they should have done beisdes the healing reduction is:

 

moved tele def/lightning barrier to require 20 points in that tree, moved oppressing force/pinning resolve to 20 points in that tree. Increased the force speed cooldown from 30sec to 2min

 

And kept the damage the same

And finally sage/sorc are fixed

 

I think you will find if you do a rotation beyond spamming rocks you will come out ahead

 

This may be a buff to pve damage but pvp damage is all about burst. A nerf to crit is a significant nerf to pvp damage.

[JustinxDuff]

Tell the "sage dps sucks" line to the sorc on my server who literally spams 2 moves and easily breaks 400k damage every...single...game.

[BiggDirty]

 

Now do you? Only thing that hurts is a good marauder, but that is still doable.

 

Also, if you are using force quake on anything but the doors, you're doing it wrong. Force quake is horribad.

 

Yay more videos of fully geared sages fighting people with 0 expertise and critting on every single hit since these fights were handpicked from thousands of encounters.

[Groncho]

Tell the "sage dps sucks" line to the sorc on my server who literally spams 2 moves and easily breaks 400k damage every...single...game.

 

doing Aoes easily healed and dotting

damage padding

u should know the difference been a mara player

[BiggDirty]

Tell the "sage dps sucks" line to the sorc on my server who literally spams 2 moves and easily breaks 400k damage every...single...game.

 

15k damage in 1 GCD from TK wave on 5 different people

 

Or 15k damage in 3 GCD's on 1 person.

 

GEE I WONDER WHICH ONE IS BETTER. DERRRRRRP

[Samaul]

Tell the "sage dps sucks" line to the sorc on my server who literally spams 2 moves and easily breaks 400k damage every...single...game.

 

Screenshot or it didnt happen.

[Samaul]

15k damage in 1 GCD from TK wave on 5 different people

 

Or 15k damage in 3 GCD's on 1 person.

 

GEE I WONDER WHICH ONE IS BETTER. DERRRRRRP

 

Aye, my post is about single target damage.

[Cleikauf]

Yay more videos of fully geared sages fighting people with 0 expertise and critting on every single hit since these fights were handpicked from thousands of encounters.

 

Force potency increases crit chance (So thats just about every fight, silly). Also video is not to show skill, purely for entertainment, I have videos of me fighting 1v1 with equally geared people, but whats the fun in that, most people find 2v1's with big numbers more entertaining. Maybe you were in the video?! Sorry a sorc touched you in your no-no spot.

[Ewgal]

The sages biggest weakness is burst, we have none. We can put out decent sustained damage with procs in pve but our pvp dps is just weak and slow.

 

But, Sir, we are supposed to be a ranged dps class with sustained output. If you want to play a more burst type ranged dps try gunslinger. Or, try one of the melee dps classes for that burst. The patch changes just promote either TK or Balance deep specs, these are different play styles, but neither are burst.

[SeanPoe]

 

Now do you? Only thing that hurts is a good marauder, but that is still doable.

 

Those were the worst opponents i've ever seen in my life. Funny thing too, that was probably your highlight reel (ie, the few times you actually killed a mara 1v1, even though they were blantly terrible).

 

Here, let me break it down for you:

• Every single marauder opens on you with leap, even if they're only 10m away.
  
• Not a single marauder used Undying Rage (99% damage reduction cd)
  
• Not a single marauder used Sabre ward during your 60% crit cooldown
  
• All of those marauders were rage spec and they would charge ---> smash you without fully buffing the smash damage (lol @ 1.8k smash crits as rage spec, you're doing it wrong)
  
• None of those marauders used Predation (50% runspeed buff) even though they're rage spec
  
• None of those marauders used force choke
  
• None of those marauders used their CC-breaker
  
• Pretty certain none of the marauders used cloak of pain (i don't remember seeing it anyways, not going to rewatch to check)
  
• None of the Rage marauders used Obliterate (second, shorter range leap)
  
• None of those marauders used Force camo as a gap closer (and if they were anni using force camo to immune damage during your 60% crit cd is huge)
  
• None of those marauders were Annihilation spec (the spec that really eats sages)
  
• None of those marauders used any consumables
  
• I could go on like this for another 20-30 bullet points because that's how god-awful those players were in your video...
  

 

Also, you didn't fight a single pyro powertech or darkness assassin (and you didn't fight any anni mara's either).

 

So i hope you aren't serious about posting that video. I also hope you realize you didn't kill any of those mara's. They used force camo at 5% hp and ran off and still lived making your video even more comical.

 

p.s. this video is a perfect example of why mara's are getting buffed though. 90% of them are trash that literally charge and then hit one key and then get kited while using none of their defensive cooldowns or other gap closers.

Edited March 20, 2012 by SeanPoe

[BiggDirty]

Force potency increases crit chance (So thats just about every fight, silly). Also video is not to show skill, purely for entertainment, I have videos of me fighting 1v1 with equally geared people, but whats the fun in that, most people find 2v1's with big numbers more entertaining. Maybe you were in the video?! Sorry a sorc touched you in your no-no spot.

 

I know why you made the video, but you are posting it in a thread to try and show that sages are not gimped, and your video does absolutely nothing but fool casual players into thinking that sages can consistently do that type of **** to people when in reality we get destroyed in organized PvP against fully geared players who know what they're doing.

[Nosaj]

Just wanted to drop my two cents in here-

 

I'm a lvl 65 valor Sorc Dps nearly full BM gear for my main, 13/28 build which is currently the best dps build available for Sorc.

 

I've been asking around as well as to why our class is getting nerfed as well, when it looks like the assassin isn't being touched and the marauder looks like it's getting a buff.

 

My only guess is that BW is caving in to the several posts made in the begining about people getting owned by sorcs/sages in wz's. My alt is a marauder and I can tell you 100% of the time I will destroy a sorc in 1 v 1.

 

From a dps perspective the sorc usually gets large amount of dps in doors and turrets wz's, but if playing to win typically not in hutball. Our perceived "High" utility isn't that great. The pull is nice and comes in handy for really only huttball. Our force speed (only 2 sec's btw) is usually negated by a jump to enemy or force slowed. We have a couple of stuns and one cc. So average utility, low bursts dps, minimal chance of getting away from a jump to enemy and now your killing our Wrath to chaning lightening proc and severly nerfing our crit and FL dmg? I'm trying to find the logic here - we are now the lowest dps class with average utility? Not trying to be an arse but would really love to know why?

[BiggDirty]

Just wanted to drop my two cents in here-

 

I'm a lvl 65 valor Sorc Dps nearly full BM gear for my main, 13/28 build which is currently the best dps build available for Sorc.

 

I've been asking around as well as to why our class is getting nerfed as well, when it looks like the assassin isn't being touched and the marauder looks like it's getting a buff.

 

My only guess is that BW is caving in to the several posts made in the begining about people getting owned by sorcs/sages in wz's. My alt is a marauder and I can tell you 100% of the time I will destroy a sorc in 1 v 1.

 

From a dps perspective the sorc usually gets large amount of dps in doors and turrets wz's, but if playing to win typically not in hutball. Our perceived "High" utility isn't that great. The pull is nice and comes in handy for really only huttball. Our force speed (only 2 sec's btw) is usually negated by a jump to enemy or force slowed. We have a couple of stuns and one cc. So average utility, low bursts dps, minimal chance of getting away from a jump to enemy and now your killing our Wrath to chaning lightening proc and severly nerfing our crit and FL dmg? I'm trying to find the logic here - we are now the lowest dps class with average utility? Not trying to be an arse but would really love to know why?

 

You already know why. These forums were flooded with crybaby posts for the first 3 months, this is the response.

 

Just be happy you have a marauder alt.

[Sir_Toothless]

I know why you made the video, but you are posting it in a thread to try and show that sages are not gimped, and your video does absolutely nothing but fool casual players into thinking that sages can consistently do that type of **** to people when in reality we get destroyed in organized PvP against fully geared players who know what they're doing.

 

As does every other class.

[SeanPoe]

As does every other class.

 

Except when other classes make highlight reels, they kill people in 3 seconds with 5k+5k+5k crits. Even on that zero expertise scrub marauder at the start of the video it took him over 15 seconds to "kill" him (he never actually died by the way, he ran off and lived lol).

Edited March 20, 2012 by SeanPoe

[Sir_Toothless]

Just wanted to drop my two cents in here-

 

I'm a lvl 65 valor Sorc Dps nearly full BM gear for my main, 13/28 build which is currently the best dps build available for Sorc.

 

I've been asking around as well as to why our class is getting nerfed as well, when it looks like the assassin isn't being touched and the marauder looks like it's getting a buff.

 

My only guess is that BW is caving in to the several posts made in the begining about people getting owned by sorcs/sages in wz's. My alt is a marauder and I can tell you 100% of the time I will destroy a sorc in 1 v 1.

 

From a dps perspective the sorc usually gets large amount of dps in doors and turrets wz's, but if playing to win typically not in hutball. Our perceived "High" utility isn't that great. The pull is nice and comes in handy for really only huttball. Our force speed (only 2 sec's btw) is usually negated by a jump to enemy or force slowed. We have a couple of stuns and one cc. So average utility, low bursts dps, minimal chance of getting away from a jump to enemy and now your killing our Wrath to chaning lightening proc and severly nerfing our crit and FL dmg? I'm trying to find the logic here - we are now the lowest dps class with average utility? Not trying to be an arse but would really love to know why?

 

You may consider your utility as 'average.' That is fine.

 

But then the utility of every other class in the game must be horrendous, because you still have the most utility of any class in the game.

[Sir_Toothless]

Except when other classes make highlight reels, they kill people in 3 seconds with 5k+5k+5k crits. Even on that zero expertise scrub marauder at the start of the video it took him over 10 seconds to "kill" him (he never actually died by the way, he ran off and lived lol).

 

Did you see that mercs got a nerf too? (that 5k+5k+5k critting class you meant, I assume)

 

and the buff to marauders isn't really a buff. Some stuff got moved around, annihilation spec stayed about the same, and the carnage spec got a minor buff, but nobody runs carnage in pvp anyways

[BiggDirty]

Did you see that mercs got a nerf too? (that 5k+5k+5k critting class you meant, I assume)

 

and the buff to marauders isn't really a buff. Some stuff got moved around, annihilation spec stayed about the same, and the carnage spec got a minor buff, but nobody runs carnage in pvp anyways

 

I doubt he was talking about mercs.

 

More likely powertech, marauder, assassin.

 

Mercs are victims of the crybaby train just like sorcs. They did not need to be nerfed. In high level PvP they get steamrolled by interrupts and are almost useless.

[SeanPoe]

You may consider your utility as 'average.' That is fine.

 

But then the utility of every other class in the game must be horrendous, because you still have the most utility of any class in the game.

 

Half of the perceived "utility" are kiting abilities that the class requires just to have the same survivability other classes get passively or through self-defensive cooldowns. That's what people don't get. Without sprint, sages would almost instantly die to any melee swap. Without the knockback with root (the plain knockback without the talented root is garbage except to knock people off a z-axis, by the way), sages would almost instantly die to any melee swap. Without the 3k bubble, sages would almost die instantly to pretty much any burst attempt from any class. These abilities make up for the fact sages don't have heavy armor, don't have a stank stance, and don't have a SINGLE defensive cooldown.

[Sir_Toothless]

I doubt he was talking about mercs.

 

More likely powertech, marauder, assassin.

 

Mercs are victims of the crybaby train just like sorcs. They did not need to be nerfed. In high level PvP they get steamrolled by interrupts and are almost useless.

 

In high level pvp, they play pyrotech, just like powertechs do.

 

Annihilation marauders have maybe 2 spells that can crit for 5k, force scream and ravage.

 

Problem: Now ravage can't be interupted.

 

Solution: Move out of melee range during the channel, or kb/stun.

 

I have never had a problem with an assassin in a 1v1, when they have a pocket healer, sure, but never in 1v1.

[Sir_Toothless]

Half of the perceived "utility" are kiting abilities that the class requires just to have the same survivability other classes get passively or through self-defensive cooldowns. That's what people don't get. Without sprint, sages would almost instantly die to any melee swap. Without the knockback with root (the plain knockback without the talented root is garbage except to knock people off a z-axis, by the way), sages would almost instantly die to any melee swap. Without the 3k bubble, sages would almost die instantly to pretty much any burst attempt from any class. These abilities make up for the fact sages don't have heavy armor, don't have a stank stance, and don't have a SINGLE defensive cooldown.

 

Sniper's don't wear heavy armor.

 

Their defensive cooldowns are a joke. 3s of immunity to melee/ranged attacks and a 2k (at best) damage shield.

 

Cover is only good for preventing leaps, once the class is in melee range, you're screwed anyways.

 

Sure they get a single target knock-back, but they only get 1 stun, and its melee range only.

 

They get nothing like force speed. And despite the fact that they wear medium amor, they are just as squishy as you because you can pick up %damage reduction.'

 

 

Sure mercs wear heavy armor, but they don't get a 'stank stance,' they have 1 defensive cooldown which absorbs about as much damage as your bubble, but on a much longer recast.

Again, they have a single target KB, but they are also the least mobile class in the game.

Edited March 20, 2012 by Sir_Toothless

[BiggDirty]

Sniper's don't wear heavy armor.

 

Their defensive cooldowns are a joke. 3s of immunity to melee/ranged attacks and a 2k (at best) damage shield.

 

Cover is only good for preventing leaps, once the class is in melee range, you're screwed anyways.

 

Sure they get a single target knock-back, but they only get 1 stun, and its melee range only.

 

They get nothing like force speed. And despite the fact that they wear medium amor, they are just as squishy as you because you can pick up %damage reduction.

 

It seems like every time you post you're just spewing irrelevant information.

 

Snipers are horrible, we're aware of that. How is that relevant to this discussion?

 

The point is that sages were mediocre before the nerf, and now they will be on par with snipers and operatives. Bottom of the barrel.