1.2 Arsenal Testing

[Quantemoq]

so most of our compensation will come from the increase in unload. that means we will be much weaker against tanks, sine unload is pretty useless against them, right?

[Dastey]

so most of our compensation will come from the increase in unload. that means we will be much weaker against tanks, sine unload is pretty useless against them, right?

 

Yes and in general it will be a PvP nerf since an interrupted Tracer Missile wont be able to reduce the cooldown of Unload. Ofcourse Power Shot then will but lets face it, Power Shot isnt that good, especially not against tanks

[Iandayen]

this is not totally true. while TM heat was lowered to 16 the activation time was increased to 2 seconds. muzzle fluting was changed from lowering TM heat to reducing the activation time. therefore TM remains exactly the same as it does now if specced

 

my question is, how bad do these changes affect our HSM + RS burst? one would assume that by using unload more often TM would be used less often therefore slower buff stacking and finally less usage of HSM + RS. can more unload procs make up for this?

 

HSM + RS burst will be higher, because HSM hits much harder now and rail shot did not get nerfed at all.

[Iandayen]

Since you are so nice to post theese numbers I have a question for you.

 

I can obviously see that you are using the current 2 piece bonus because lets face it, it is absolutely awesome and I cant imagine us getting any better set bonus to replace it with. But thats kinda the comment that leads up to my question. Is it possible for you to see the set bonus we are getting on the new set so we can start measureing whether or not its worth changing out our current set bonus which is quite a nice one.

 

PVE set bonuses aren't visible yet, almost all of the PVE gear is statless atm you can only ctrl click to see what it looks like.

 

PVP set bonuses are the same, so I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say PVE will stay the same as well.

 

That is fine by me, 15% tracer crit and rail shots free 100% of the time are about as good of a set bonus as you can get really.

[Dastey]

I agree those set bonuses are fantastic and im using the 2 piece bonus even in PvP atm. ofcourse with expertise changes I will have to take that up to reconsideration but it still just seems too good to pass up on

[Iandayen]

so most of our compensation will come from the increase in unload. that means we will be much weaker against tanks, sine unload is pretty useless against them, right?

 

Look guys. In pvp not much is going to change. Tracer only got a slight nerf.

 

Sure on paper you see 10% and freak out and think the ability is going to be useless - but on PTR mine is still hitting decently hard - les damage for sure, but it still hurts.

 

Then add in the fact that expertise in pvp got a huge buff - Battlemaster gear is sitting at 20% expertise bonus. Your tracers are going to hit even harder than before.

[Cegenaus]

HSM + RS burst will be higher, because HSM hits much harder now and rail shot did not get nerfed at all.

 

that didnt answer my question. i know HSM + RS burst will have better numbers because of the HSM buff but my question is does less usage of HSM + RS hurt our rotation or do more unload procs make up for this?

[Yazule]

Look guys. In pvp not much is going to change. Tracer only got a slight nerf.

 

Sure on paper you see 10% and freak out and think the ability is going to be useless - but on PTR mine is still hitting decently hard - les damage for sure, but it still hurts.

 

Then add in the fact that expertise in pvp got a huge buff - Battlemaster gear is sitting at 20% expertise bonus. Your tracers are going to hit even harder than before.

 

the animation change is a bigger nerf in pvp than anything else.

[Iandayen]

I thought we were meant to be more mobile... Now it's all about Unload and that's a 3 sec cast.

 

I really do not understand how those brains at BioW work.

 

Arsenal has never been meant to be mobile, I don't understand how your brains work.

 

Pyrotecch has ALWAYS been the mobility tree. And I honestly think it has always been the better choice for pvp spec as well.

[Iandayen]

that didnt answer my question. i know HSM + RS burst will have better numbers because of the HSM buff but my question is does less usage of HSM + RS hurt our rotation or do more unload procs make up for this?

 

I'm not sure what you are getting at here.

 

It doesn't hurt your rotation now, and it won't hurt it in 1.2 either. the only thing that changed was a bonus to HSM's damage. No heat costs were affected.

 

You should have always been using HSM and railshot on cooldown in PVE anyways and in PVP it's even better than it was.

[Iandayen]

the animation change is a bigger nerf in pvp than anything else.

 

The animation imo is a pvp buff.

 

Its much less obvious you are casting tracer now than it was before.

 

Live now - Look, BH looks like he's taking a dump - he's using tracer - los/interrupt/kill

 

On PTR now - All you do is point your hand out. It's very low key.

[Dastey]

Look guys. In pvp not much is going to change. Tracer only got a slight nerf.

 

Sure on paper you see 10% and freak out and think the ability is going to be useless - but on PTR mine is still hitting decently hard - les damage for sure, but it still hurts.

 

Then add in the fact that expertise in pvp got a huge buff - Battlemaster gear is sitting at 20% expertise bonus. Your tracers are going to hit even harder than before.

Actually you are wrong there, assuming the person you are shooting on has the same expertise you will see the following changes:

 

100 % damage * 10% = 110% * 10% damage reduction = 99% damage (Patch 1.1)

100% damage * 20% = 120% * 20% damage reduction = 96% damage (Patch 1.2)

 

So we will be seing a 3,03% damage reduction simply from expertise

On the same time healers will be getting 12,5% more healing done.

[Yazule]

The animation imo is a pvp buff.

 

Its much less obvious you are casting tracer now than it was before.

 

Live now - Look, BH looks like he's taking a dump - he's using tracer - los/interrupt/kill

 

On PTR now - All you do is point your hand out. It's very low key.

 

no red laser? no target on target?

Edited March 19, 2012 by Yazule

[Yazule]

The animation imo is a pvp buff.

 

Its much less obvious you are casting tracer now than it was before.

 

Live now - Look, BH looks like he's taking a dump - he's using tracer - los/interrupt/kill

 

On PTR now - All you do is point your hand out. It's very low key.

 

omg i should have finished reading... no red laser? no target on target?

[Iandayen]

Actually you are wrong there, assuming the person you are shooting on has the same expertise you will see the following changes:

 

100 % damage * 10% = 110% * 10% damage reduction = 99% damage (Patch 1.1)

100% damage * 20% = 120% * 20% damage reduction = 96% damage (Patch 1.2)

 

So we will be seing a 3,03% damage reduction simply from expertise

On the same time healers will be getting 12,5% more healing done.

 

it's 10% from current damage - and you aren't taking in the HUGE stat jumps going to warleader gear with rank 61 mods in it.

[Cegenaus]

I'm not sure what you are getting at here.

 

It doesn't hurt your rotation now, and it won't hurt it in 1.2 either. the only thing that changed was a bonus to HSM's damage. No heat costs were affected.

 

You should have always been using HSM and railshot on cooldown in PVE anyways and in PVP it's even better than it was.

 

im not sure how i can explain it any better. so if you are using unload more you are using TM less right? if you are using TM less than you are stacking all of your buffs/debuffs less right? so if you are stacking all of your buffs/debuffs less than you are using HSM and RS less right?

 

if this is the case then does the increased proc chance of unload make up for the lost damage by not using HSM and RS as much?

[Iandayen]

im not sure how i can explain it any better. so if you are using unload more you are using TM less right? if you are using TM less than you are stacking all of your buffs/debuffs less right? so if you are stacking all of your buffs/debuffs less than you are using HSM and RS less right?

 

if this is the case then does the increased proc chance of unload make up for the lost damage by not using HSM and RS as much?

 

Uhhh...............

 

it takes 3 TM's to get your 5 stack up at the beginning of a fight.

 

Debuffs last 15 seconds.

 

Lets take a worst case scenario.

 

TM-TM-TM beginning of fight - 15 seconds of 5 stack debuff.

 

Barrage has procced - 3 seconds of casting unload

You use your HSM - 1.5 seconds gcd

1.5 second gcd for rail shot

 

You have gone 6 seconds without using TM - Unload, rail shot and HSM are all on cooldown.

 

You still have 9 seconds left on your debuffs - tracer is a 1.5 sec cast and only tracer missile can proc barrage.

 

Your debuffs should never fall off - no matter how you look at it, and your rotation isn't going to change - you are just using unload more than before.

[Cegenaus]

Uhhh...............

 

it takes 3 TM's to get your 5 stack up at the beginning of a fight.

 

Debuffs last 15 seconds.

 

Lets take a worst case scenario.

 

TM-TM-TM beginning of fight - 15 seconds of 5 stack debuff.

 

Barrage has procced - 3 seconds of casting unload

You use your HSM - 1.5 seconds gcd

1.5 second gcd for rail shot

 

You have gone 6 seconds without using TM - Unload, rail shot and HSM are all on cooldown.

 

You still have 9 seconds left on your debuffs - tracer is a 1.5 sec cast and only tracer missile can proc barrage.

 

Your debuffs should never fall off - no matter how you look at it, and your rotation isn't going to change - you are just using unload more than before.

 

nvm, ill just ask someone else who can test for me

[Zafine]

shouldnt tm have a 2-sec-activation time?

 

Tracer Missile has been rebalanced in order to encourage more active gameplay rotations. It now generates 16 Heat, has a 2-second activation time, and deals approximately 10% less damage.

[Sinsavz]

What's the new proc chance for unload? I'm seeing absolutely no one talk about it, just that it's been "increased"

[Iandayen]

shouldnt tm have a 2-sec-activation time?

 

Tracer Missile has been rebalanced in order to encourage more active gameplay rotations. It now generates 16 Heat, has a 2-second activation time, and deals approximately 10% less damage.

 

No, read the rest of the patch notes.

[Iandayen]

nvm, ill just ask someone else who can test for me

 

What are they going to tell you that I am not?

 

You are still using HSM and rail shot on cooldown, no matter what, your debuffs should never fall off because only tracer missile procs barrage - and tracer missile puts up the debuff.

 

So if you are using tracer to proc barrage - you are refreshing the debuff.

 

Pretty sure you just aren't understanding anything.

[Iandayen]

What's the new proc chance for unload? I'm seeing absolutely no one talk about it, just that it's been "increased"

 

Tooltip now says 45% on the talent.

[Cegenaus]

What are they going to tell you that I am not?

 

You are still using HSM and rail shot on cooldown, no matter what, your debuffs should never fall off because only tracer missile procs barrage - and tracer missile puts up the debuff.

 

So if you are using tracer to proc barrage - you are refreshing the debuff.

 

Pretty sure you just aren't understanding anything.

 

considering you havent come close to answering my question id say you arent doing well in the understanding department yourself. let me ask you this then so maybe i can figure it out on my own, how many barrage procs do you get in the rotation now? i tend to get 1-2 as it stands

[Iandayen]

im not sure how i can explain it any better. so if you are using unload more you are using TM less right? if you are using TM less than you are stacking all of your buffs/debuffs less right? so if you are stacking all of your buffs/debuffs less than you are using HSM and RS less right?

 

if this is the case then does the increased proc chance of unload make up for the lost damage by not using HSM and RS as much?

 

I'm going to quote your old reply here.

 

so if you are using unload more you are using TM less right?

 

A little less, yes

 

if you are using TM less than you are stacking all of your buffs/debuffs less right?

 

No your debuffs are always on 100% uptime all the time, no matter what - even when using unload every time it procs and HSM and RS on cooldown

 

so if you are stacking all of your buffs/debuffs less than you are using HSM and RS less right?

 

NO for the last time - you are STILL using HSM and RS on cooldown.

 

 

----------------------------

 

Your debuffs aren't going up any less because you are using unload more - end of story.

 

You aren't using HSM and rail shot any less than you are now on live - end of story

 

Your DPS is going up even though you don't seem to want to believe it.