So pyro gets nerfed?

[Crotach]

Unload is on a 15 second CD. Nothing else besides Power shot resets Rail shot with the proc. It is way more than a filler. What do you do if Unload doesnt proc? Wait 15 seconds for Rail shot to finish CD? Even then you will pay heat without the proc effect.

 

 

Like it or not we took a nerf.

 

It may be a nerf, but at least for me it's a skill that I use the least. Like someone said earlier, if I use power shot it's rarely because it requires me to stay stationary and I might as well paint a big target sign over my head. If I use it, then it's with the instant-cast ability, and because Rail Shot is still on cooldown and Unload didn't proc it.

 

For me, if Unload didn't proc rail shot, I use rapid shots, or if my heat is low start dotting another target.

 

If I really want to spend time casting, then I usually go for a fusion missile into a crowd, this is normally combined with the no-heat skill, unless my heat is really low.

 

Power shot just doesn't feature in my rotation, it's a filler and very situational.

[IlynPayne]

if you dont use power shot you play your role wrong. your role is doing dps, not beeing an annoyance. not using powershot = playing the spec wrong = doing **** dps.

[Jaigen]

If your not using power shot as a pyro you are doing it very wrong. If you not using power shot as as bodyguard you are also doing it wrong. Power shot is main attack for mercs on a single target.

[Yazule]

If your not using power shot as a pyro you are doing it very wrong. If you not using power shot as as bodyguard you are also doing it wrong. Power shot is main attack for mercs on a single target.

 

and if you are using power shot as arsenal you just failed

[McGarnagle]

Not the best use of the instant cast ability but I will do it on occassion for bigger burst damage (Fusion will do more dmg overall but PS is higher burst).

 

I honestly think it's an awful use of power surge. An instant heal while on the move (or an instant heal combined with the quick heal while standing still for a global) is way more useful than a power shot. Either that or an instant concussion missile. Those things are a way better use of power surge especially since it's on a 2 minute cooldown. I would much rather use it to save me than get in a quick power shot on a guy you will probably kill anyway.

[Crotach]

Well, I hate to say it, but I'm not using powershot (or very rarely) and I'm doing just fine. Always in the top for damage, and low number of deaths since I'm constantly on the run. Cooldowns on jet escape and shield are enough for the odd time that a stealthy gets close enough.

 

Maybe power shot features in PvE, I wouldn't know

[McGarnagle]

and if you are using power shot as arsenal you just failed

 

Power shot is useful if tracer is interrupted with other abilities on cooldown (or you are waiting to use them with full buff/armor debuff). It's still a good damage per heat/damage per second ability and can be spammed. I definitely use power shot if I am arsenal. I prefer not wasting railshot before it's fully buffed, heatseekers is often on cooldown, unload is often on cooldown (pretty much always because you should be using that every time it's proced), and fusion missile is very high heat (unless combined with thermal sensor override which is a 2 minute cooldown). Power shot not only is a good damage per second per heat ability, it can also proc barrage (the unload proc).

 

In other words, not using power shot as arsenal you just failed.

[McGarnagle]

Well, I hate to say it, but I'm not using powershot (or very rarely) and I'm doing just fine. Always in the top for damage, and low number of deaths since I'm constantly on the run. Cooldowns on jet escape and shield are enough for the odd time that a stealthy gets close enough.

 

Maybe power shot features in PvE, I wouldn't know

 

If you are being attacked (which is of course often) it's not that great for pyro since it has a knockback (unless you spec into reduced knockback, which is a waste of points). Yet if you are free to cast it's a good ability to use if you need filler. Not something that needs to be used all the time, but will increase your damage over the course of a warzone, especially since it can proc railshot. Why settle for top damage when you can do even more?

 

and yes, for PVE it should be used often since knockback is not a concern (at least not most of the time). Yet if you PVE you should be arsenal. Not only is it way better for heat management, the sustained damage is much better and the whole raid gets the armor debuff. IMO arsenal merc is the best PVE DPS spec in the game (many would agree).

Edited March 30, 2012 by McGarnagle

[Jaigen]

Well, I hate to say it, but I'm not using powershot (or very rarely) and I'm doing just fine. Always in the top for damage, and low number of deaths since I'm constantly on the run. Cooldowns on jet escape and shield are enough for the odd time that a stealthy gets close enough.

 

Maybe power shot features in PvE, I wouldn't know

 

True PS is used more for PvE then PVP. But what i like about pyro is that you can still do good damage while moving while arsenal is completely depending on tracer missile spam.

[Baarabas]

Merc Pyro is going to take a NERF! Why, I dont know. We were never considered an OP class. Judging by the changes, we took a nerf based upon changes need to "balance" other classes in our profession.

 

We are collateral damage.

 

 

-Death From Above now has a 5-meter radius to bring its range in line with other Bounty Hunter Area of Effect abilities, and it now begins dealing damage sooner after activation.

 

It doesnt matter that it begins dealing damage sooner, this is a nerf.

 

Hired Muscle now increases critical chance by 1% per point.

 

Almost every Merc Pyro I know uses this skill. We have 10 points to invest outside our tree. It is bad enough that our PT Pyro brothers have way better Tier I abilities to invest in than we do:

 

Prototype

1)Puncture - Rail ignores 60% of Targets Armor

2)Prototype Burn Enhancers - Increase all Crits on fire effects by 6%

3)Rail loaders - Rails damage increased by 6%

4)Iron Fist - 8% increase to damage by Rocket Punch

5)Electro Surge - 10 sec redux on Electro Darts CD

6)Advanced Targeting - Accuracy increased by 3%

7)Intimidation - Increase the damage of all fire effects by 6%

 

With Hired Muscle, they just took one of the few skills we have and nerfed the crap out of it. Why? Because it made Arsenals or Bodyguard OP? I dont know. What do we have as Tier I:

 

Alacraty, Endurance, Accuracy. Within our tree. Our best choices across AC include:

 

1) Iron Sights

2) Hired Muscle (pre 1.2)

3) Mando Iron Warheads

4) *Tie* Advanced Targeting / Improved Vents (Imporved Vents hardly gets picked due to the need to pick up tier II muzzel fluting)

5) ...

6) ...

7) ...

 

....Oh thats it folks. 4 skills. We already were gimped, and we took a nerf.

 

Tracer Missile and Fusion Missile's animations have been exchanged by popular demand from the community.

 

No one sees this a a quasi-nerf, but I do. Let me break it down. Interupt. When I saw a Arsenals Merc bent over at the waste it was time to shut him down. It is the most eye catching animation in this game. Interupt, stun, blowback, whatever. Shut it down. That image is still resinating on everyones brains, except we have it on Fusion Missle. We spam Rail Shot for DPS. We have to rotate Unload and Power Shot (see below) to proc Rail Shots ability. Outside those options (15 sec CDs except Power Shot, but PS builds heat) TD and Fusion Missle were our DPS fillers to keep us on par with our cousin PT Pyro's DPS and brother Arsenals DPS. Fussion missle was great in warzones firing into a group and keeping an oponent on fire to trigger our Pyro abilities. Most of us used a Thermo Sensor Override/Power Surge combo to fire Fussion Missle. Some of us reserved Power Surge for Concussion Missle or Heal Scan. It was a must with Concussion Missle due to our deficiencies with CCs that is inherent with our AC.

 

Well in my opinion, if we want to keep Fussion Missle as a viable DPS application to our targets and not suffer the interrupt, we will almost have to use it in combo with Power Surge. This is a nerf.

 

Prototype Particle Accelerator now requires Combustible Gas Cylinder to trigger. The chance to trigger this effect has been increased significantly but cannot trigger more than once every 6 seconds.

 

Well, no word from the TC to see how this is playing out. Kind of evident to how many Arsenals there were to Pyros in the first place. We had the cance % of Unload and Powershot increased, but how does the 6 sec CD effect this? It is more luck, but I know I can spam (on average) rail shot's proc effect more than once every 6 seconds over the course of lets say 1 minute.

This rotation gave me a 35% chance to proc: Unload (CD 15 sec, so not used again in rotation), 1.5 global, Power Shot, 1.5, Power Shot - Proc. 3 abilities total 3 sec to proc. This rotation gave me a 60% chance to prec effect: Unload, Power Shot, Power Shot, Power Shot. 4 abilities, total 4.5 secs to proc.

If I was unlucky (40% of the time), I would have to use 1 more PS which would give me a 6 second rotation.

In PvP this rotation is exposed to chaos, so it is not as constant. But in PvE (a purer environment) this is how long it takes me to proc rail shot. Im not 100%, but it looks like a nerf for us, so that PT Pyro can have their Parakeet build destroyed.

 

Power Shot has been rebalanced. It now generates 16 Heat, has a 2-second activation time, and deals approximately 10% less damage.

 

Now the one we have been debating. No doubt this is part of our rotation. If it is not, you are using Merc Pyro wrong. 16 heat is great. 2 second activation time and 10% less damage = NERF. Now we have to pick up Muzzel Fluting destroying much of our customization. But we still do less damage. No big deal? We were already second place compared to Arsenals in DPS. We were already second place compared to PT Pyro in DPS. We were third place compared to them both. Based on TC results. My guilds and what is on the forums, Arsenals is actually getting a DPS buff. With the tweaks to Unload, they come out ahead. All they have to do is alter their rotation. PT Pyro got nerfed, but not as much as us (since we too the same nerfs they did). But their Rocket Punch didnt get its CD legthened. It didnt get a 10% damage redux.

 

We got nerfed.

Edited March 31, 2012 by Baarabas

[Irishbrewed]

I would love to hear their metrics behind nerfing POWERSHOT.

 

Unreasonable change just seems like more nerfs for the sake of nerfing.

 

Can we get a dev post on why it needed to be nerfed?

 

They nerfed DFA to keep AOE DMg down but this one makes little sense

[STD_Skindancer]

I do like pyro so much. What I don't like is looking like I've gotta crap every time I use fusion missile and losing damage on my powershot because all the arsenals can't do anything but spam tracer all the time (which you do, admit it or not, or it wouldn't have driven this nerf). It is your fault, you nerfed pyro, point fingers all you want, it's true and that's it. Thanks for that.

 

ignorance is bliss, huh?

[McGarnagle]

I am not going to quote the whole thing from baarabas, but this is to his point...

 

If you are truly using power shot often then why don't you already have muzzle fluting? I have thought about dropping it and using more rapid shots. Power shot is just a terrible attack in warzones due to the knockback. I only use it if I am able to free cast, which is not often in warzones.

 

Although the one thing that ticks me off the most is the fact extra vent heat is in the healing tree and alacrity is in the pyro tree. This makes no sense at all. Pyros really get screwed by the tree set up. Accuracy (don't get me started on this stupid stat and how the devs think it works), alacrity, and endurance in order to get further up the tree. Really?

 

and yes, power shot nerf makes no sense whatsoever. The funny thing is the devs want arsenal to have a more active rotation. You know what would do it? Make power shot more viable to them, not nerf it. Give tracer the armor debuff and the defense buff, but give power shot more damage. So then arsenal would need to keep rotating between them to keep up their stacks and max damage. I know, makes too much sense.

 

BTW...why do people want the devs to respond? Whenever I see an interview with one their logic is baffling. IMO they have a vision for the game that does not work out in reality. Instead of watching warzones and each classes effectiveness they keep trying to shove that vision down our throat (or they simply don't understand how their decisions affect the classes, which may be worse).

Edited March 31, 2012 by McGarnagle

[Baarabas]

 

If you are truly using power shot often then why don't you already have muzzle fluting? I have thought about dropping it and using more rapid shots. Power shot is just a terrible attack in warzones due to the knockback. I only use it if I am able to free cast, which is not often in warzones.

 

Although the one thing that ticks me off the most is the fact extra vent heat is in the healing tree and alacrity is in the pyro tree. This makes no sense at all. Pyros really get screwed by the tree set up. Accuracy (don't get me started on this stupid stat and how the devs think it works), alacrity, and endurance in order to get further up the tree. Really?

 

and yes, power shot nerf makes no sense whatsoever.

 

I do have muzzel fluting. All I was pointing out is how it further makes us pigeon holed into having to buy it. Not that we had many options outside of 3/7/31, but the point of a tweek is to improve that not make it worse. I agree though, with the Power Shot pushback coment. That is why I am trying to fight this nerf. It was already hard enough to pull it off, now they made it not even worth it.

 

To your second point, I have been pitching this since launch. In beta I noticed this and made recomendations to the devs. Look at my history you will see it in there:

 

-Move Improved Vents to Pyro and Move System Calabrations to BG.

 

That would be a start.

[crrypto]

Yeah? Well what about that 6 second cooldown.

 

This seems bad at first, but very rarely do I see PPA proc more than once in six seconds as it is.

Edited April 2, 2012 by crrypto

[McGarnagle]

This seems bad at first, but very rarely do I see PPA proc more than once in six seconds as it is.

 

Part of that is after unload you have to use power shot which gets knocked back and interrupted all the time (you need to actually cast it to get the proc, so it's not like unload where you can proc right away). PT's have insta casts and get railshot procs all the time, so this is worse for them. Plus unload is a 3 second channel that procs right away, then add in 1.5 for a global on railshot and you are already at 4.5 seconds. We essentially lose the chance for 1 power shot to proc after that, which is not a high probability right now on top of being a terrible attack due to knockbacks and interrupts. Good things it's being nerfed though. All that qq about powershot was deafening.

 

Sure, there are times you could keep firing off power shot praying for 2 procs and that 6 second cap with eliminate that. Yet I find that to be a waste of heat. I would rather switch to rapid shots and wait for my cooldowns instead of using an ability that takes forever due to knockback, does not hit hard, and can be interrupted.

Edited April 2, 2012 by McGarnagle

[T-Assassin]

Part of that is after unload you have to use power shot which gets knocked back and interrupted all the time (you need to actually cast it to get the proc, so it's not like unload where you can proc right away). PT's have insta casts and get railshot procs all the time, so this is worse for them. Plus unload is a 3 second channel that procs right away, then add in 1.5 for a global on railshot and you are already at 4.5 seconds. We essentially lose the chance for 1 power shot to proc after that, which is not a high probability right now on top of being a terrible attack due to knockbacks and interrupts. Good things it's being nerfed though. All that qq about powershot was deafening.

 

Sure, there are times you could keep firing off power shot praying for 2 procs and that 6 second cap with eliminate that. Yet I find that to be a waste of heat. I would rather switch to rapid shots and wait for my cooldowns instead of using an ability that takes forever due to knockback, does not hit hard, and can be interrupted.

 

+1

 

 

Camaxtli

[Battilea]

I do have muzzel fluting. All I was pointing out is how it further makes us pigeon holed into having to buy it. Not that we had many options outside of 3/7/31, but the point of a tweek is to improve that not make it worse. I agree though, with the Power Shot pushback coment. That is why I am trying to fight this nerf. It was already hard enough to pull it off, now they made it not even worth it.

 

I don't think it pigeon-holes us further. The heat cost reduction already made it a must have, if you use Power Shot regularly. And if you don't, then the cast time reduction isn't any more necessary.

 

That said, I'd love to see some parses on test dummies comparing our sustained DPS to arsenals. If ours isn't higher, then something is wrong. Arsenal provides an armor debuff, a nice and desired grouping ability. We don't. Less utility means we should be doing the higher damage of the two, since they are the greater force multiplier.

 

Yet we get nerfed, with no compensation, they, however, get compensated.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Battilea

[Barberiann]

I have to say that the suggestion to switch Improved Vents and System Calibrations is quite possibly the best suggestion that I have ever come across on these forums to date.

 

What in the **** was Bioware thinking not doing this in the first place? Pyro uses alot of heat, we need to vent more... Healing needs alacrity... WAIT, lets just switch these two talents around for no reason! BRILLIANT!!

[Baarabas]

I have to say that the suggestion to switch Improved Vents and System Calibrations is quite possibly the best suggestion that I have ever come across on these forums to date.

 

What in the **** was Bioware thinking not doing this in the first place? Pyro uses alot of heat, we need to vent more... Healing needs alacrity... WAIT, lets just switch these two talents around for no reason! BRILLIANT!!

 

Amen brotha, amen. Yet I have been suggesting this since beta to no response. This community needs to become more vocal.

[McGarnagle]

I have to say that the suggestion to switch Improved Vents and System Calibrations is quite possibly the best suggestion that I have ever come across on these forums to date.

 

What in the **** was Bioware thinking not doing this in the first place? Pyro uses alot of heat, we need to vent more... Healing needs alacrity... WAIT, lets just switch these two talents around for no reason! BRILLIANT!!

 

The worst thing is I have 4 other classes and their trees are so full of ridiculously useful stuff, even at the bottom, I have a hard time deciding what to pick. For mercs the bottom of the tree is messed up. One of the few good things we get they are nerfing (crit from 6% to 3%). The only thing left is the +Aim. On my marauder I just look at all the trees and drool. Same with sorc. I look at my merc trees (especially pyro) and laugh.

 

The logic behind some of the stuff they do is baffling.

Edited April 3, 2012 by McGarnagle

[Baarabas]

The worst thing is I have 4 other classes and their trees are so full of ridiculously useful stuff, even at the bottom, I have a hard time deciding what to pick. For mercs the bottom of the tree is messed up. One of the few good things we get they are nerfing (crit from 6% to 3%). The only thing left is the +Aim. On my marauder I just look at all the trees and drool. Same with sorc. I look at my merc trees (especially pyro) and laugh.

 

The logic behind some of the stuff they do is baffling.

 

Nail on Head.

[Baarabas]

it's amazing that the trooper community has come to exactly the same conclusion as the BH community seemingly without even bothering to look over here.

 

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=385982&page=2

 

 

Let me sum it up for you.

 

gunnery Commando (arsenals) > Assault Commando (Merc Pyro)

 

assault Vanguard (PTPyro) > Assault Commando

 

As soon as someone posts bragging about how much damage and kills their Assault Commando (Merc Pyro) can do, some Assault Vanguard or Gunnery Commando chuckles and posts real numbers.

 

What's even more amazing is BW is oblivious to this FACT.

[Darth_Sinistor]

Power shot lol. I steer clear of any ability that makes you stand still to do such little damage.

 

....and misses 50% of the time. O_O

 

Honestly, after trying it out for the first time when I first got it I have never used it since.

 

Whoever designed "Power" Shot is a complete muppet.

[Baarabas]

....and misses 50% of the time. O_O

 

Honestly, after trying it out for the first time when I first got it I have never used it since.

 

Whoever designed "Power" Shot is a complete muppet.

 

Whoever thought it should be nerf'd is a Kermit.