1.2 - Combat Medic - Major Nerfs

[Razhah]

I really hope this change to medics doesn't go through. I always thought we were kind of light in the heals anyway and that we would be the first healer class to be buffed. Wouldn't have needed a huge boost, maybe an in combat rez and make kolto bomb be an actual ae heal instead of the way it is. Instead we get the nerf! I think the devs must be smugglers because I feel we just got kicked in the groin. Edited March 20, 2012 by Razhah

[Mirdthestrill]

My new healing spec after changes

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#300dfMZrIkrRrd0kbz.1

 

 

Kolto Shell is USELESS after the changes.

 

If your going to make Kolto Shell cost Heat.

 

IMPROVE THE HEALING significantly (150%.)

Make it only usable on more then one target.

 

 

OR

 

Lower cost of ammo to 1.

Increase healing by 75%.

Make it usable on more then one target.

 

OR

 

Add Talents to lower its cost to 0/raise its heal amount.

 

Or... Switch Out Kolto Shell and our Endline...

 

Make it AOE and appliable to up to four people

[Aaoogaa]

See all you guys later. Account expires tonight...will wait to see how the changes pan out before reupping. Thanks Ruqu for working with Lilith to show that everything GZ said we're overreacted about so far has proven to be on target.

[Cobolt]

First time writing on the forums and maybe the last, maybe we should start a petition to the devs to rethink them. I know i will either re-roll another char and be content for a while and quit or just quit the game once 1.2 is implemented. ATM im leaning towards quiting and either going back to wow or rift or even checking out some of the new mmo's out there.

 

To the Dev's, this game was perfect for me as i am no longer a hard core player any more due to RL commitments and it seems as other games just arnt as fun if your not hardcore. My mates and I are having a ball with SWTOR and your chars really do feel epic, for me personally I couldnt really care too much if one class was a little OP than another class as i dont play that much PVP and as long as i can compete viably in PVE, for me it's mostly about grouping up and doing my job as effectively as I can (im heal spec btw). currently I do enjoy my trooper as i can heal all day long, albeit heal less and have crappy AOE or no combat rez but I understand that this is maybe by design to be different from other classes.

I still enjoy that i can compete with other healing classes and love trooper mechanics. Sorry for woffling on.

 

At the end of the day these nerfs will hurt the trooper class to the point where many will either re-roll and loose interest as all there buddies are lvl 50 and advancing without them and quit, or just straight up and quit swtor.

 

STOP THE NERF'S BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE

 

/signed

Edited March 21, 2012 by Cobolt

[Aritok]

First time writing on the forums and maybe the last, maybe we should start a petition to the devs to rethink them. I know i will either re-roll another char and be content for a while and quit or just quit the game once 1.2 is implemented. ATM im leaning towards quiting and either going back to wow or rift or even checking out some of the new mmo's out there.

 

To the Dev's, this game was perfect for me as i am no longer a hard core player any more due to RL commitments and it seems as other games just arnt as fun if your not hardcore. My mates and I are having a ball with SWTOR and your chars really do feel epic, for me personally I couldnt really care too much if one class was a little OP than another class as i dont play that much PVP and as long as i can compete viably in PVE, for me it's mostly about grouping up and doing my job as effectively as I can (im heal spec btw). currently I do enjoy my trooper as i can heal all day long, albeit heal less and have crappy AOE or no combat rez but I understand that this is maybe by design to be different from other classes.

I still enjoy that i can compete with other healing classes and love trooper mechanics. Sorry for woffling on.

 

At the end of the day these nerfs will hurt the trooper class to the point where many will either re-roll and loose interest as all there buddies are lvl 50 and advancing without them and quit, or just straight up and quit swtor.

 

STOP THE NERF'S BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE

 

/signed

 

A Petition? What does this one help if the devs dont even read anything that is going on on their forums.

 

NO ONE ever asked for these changes they were doing now.

There have been ALOT of suggestions everywhere what can be done. All was ignored.

There was a loud cry after the PTS server notes were published. And i am STILL missing a comment from the Devs for the reason about these changes or even any informations from them

 

A Petition does not help at all, if they dont care and dont read it.

It seems they only see one. And this are subs and $$.

Take both away, and maybe than they will see.

 

 

But after the number jinggle they did on the sumit it could even see like this when 1.2 goes live:

Dev: I am happy to announce, that all Combat Medics are happy with the changes. Both active CMs still play.

 

 

I mean honestly. The numbers they gave out at the guild sumit were a joke and were whitewashed to look better. The real imortant numbers were not told. The communication policy on this game is a joke.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Aritok

[Cobolt]

A Petition? What does this one help if the devs dont even read anything that is going on on their forums.

 

NO ONE ever asked for these changes they were doing now.

There have been ALOT of suggestions everywhere what can be done. All was ignored.

There was a loud cry after the PTS server notes were published. And i am STILL missing a comment from the Devs for the reason about these changes or even any informations from them

 

A Petition does not help at all, if they dont care and dont read it.

It seems they only see one. And this are subs and $$.

Take both away, and maybe than they will see.

 

 

But after the number jinggle they did on the sumit it could even see like this when 1.2 goes live:

Dev: I am happy to announce, that all Combat Medics are happy with the changes. Both active CMs still play.

 

 

I mean honestly. The numbers they gave out at the guild sumit were a joke and were whitewashed to look better. The real imortant numbers were not told. The communication policy on this game is a joke.

 

thx for the info Aritok, you sound really passionate, lets just hope by keeping this at the top and keep talking about this then hopefully some one with any pull will notice, just hope it doesnt take as long as wow did with druids getting a normal rez lol.

 

But yes Aritok I definitely will be cancelling my sub if they do not come to there senses before 1.2 release, there are far to many good games out or comming out very soon that Bioware want to be careful with drastic changes made to this game that alot of people already love.

 

DEV's: Put a stop to the nerfs before 1.2

 

/signed

[Aritok]

thx for the info Aritok, you sound really passionate, lets just hope by keeping this at the top and keep talking about this then hopefully some one with any pull will notice, just hope it doesnt take as long as wow did with druids getting a normal rez lol.

 

But yes Aritok I definitely will be cancelling my sub if they do not come to there senses before 1.2 release, there are far to many good games out or comming out very soon that Bioware want to be careful with drastic changes made to this game that alot of people already love.

 

DEV's: Put a stop to the nerfs before 1.2

 

/signed

 

I have to add as well something.

No one would have cried out if they would have given out some informations and background data WHY they are doing these changes.

 

But the current information policy is: eat it or leave. And this is what sucks.

 

Maybe they have some background info or combat log (HAHHAHAHA, sorry), that show them that the combat medic is the ultimate jack of all trades and cant get killed and heal full nightmare ops alone.

Or even just that the combat medic is way better than most think and feel from raids. Just because there ARE NO combat logs so far to compare it.

 

I know from own experience that the attitude for raids and flashpoint (PUG) was: Healer = sage, scoundrel and commando can maybe heal as well when you dont have a sage.

 

And especially for raids, the sage with the AE was FAR over all other healers. There is AE damage, and its best healed with AE heals. And the Sage outheal everyone on it.

 

 

But without any logs or data it was not possible to realistic say who is healing how much and how well.

Maybe they have this informations. And based on these informations the changes were on the test server.

But for gods sake, let the player know the motive behind these changes. They have the RIGHT to know these as well.

 

And THIS is what pisses the most off right now.

 

 

Edit: "Ant"s have nothing to do in here .

Edited March 21, 2012 by Aritok

[Cobolt]

I have to add as well something.

No one would have cried out if they would have given out some informations and background data WHY they are doing these changes.

 

But the current information policy is: eat it or leave. And this is what sucks.

 

Maybe they have some background info or combat log (HAHHAHAHA, sorry), that show them that the combat medic is the ultimate jack of all trades and cant get killed and heal full nightmare ops alone.

Or even just that the combat medic is way better than most think and feel from raids. Just because there ARE NO combat logs so far to compare it.

 

I know from own experience that the attitude for raids and flashpoint (PUG) was: Healer = sage, scoundrel and commando can maybe heal as well when you dont have a sage.

 

And especially for raids, the sage with the AE was FAR over all other healers. There is AE damage, and its best healed with AE heals. And the Sage outheal everyone on it.

 

 

But without any logs or data it was not possible to realistic say who is healing how much and how well.

Maybe they have this informations. And based on these informations the changes were on the test server.

But for gods sake, let the player know the motive behind these changes. They have the RIGHT to know these as well.

 

Ant THIS is what pisses the most off right now.

 

Update:

Bioware has 27 days before my sub runs out as i have just canceled.

To Aritok hope you dont mind but i stole your sig in hopes to get some other commando's to click on the link to send a clear message that we are not happy and will not put up with it.

 

Support your local healers. Boycott the Patch 1.2 Healing Nerfs. Make it clear to the Devs that their idea of "balance" is unacceptable. Unsubscribe Today

Edited March 21, 2012 by Cobolt

[Aritok]

Update:

Bioware has 27 days before my sub runs out as i have just canceled.

To Aritok hope you dont mind but i stole your sig in hopes to get some other commando's to click on the link to send a clear message that we are not happy and will not put up with it.

 

Support your local healers. Boycott the Patch 1.2 Healing Nerfs. Make it clear to the Devs that their idea of "balance" is unacceptable. Unsubscribe Today

 

Give credits to RuQu, he inspired me with it as well .

[Kriminal]

In every decent mmo classes get nerfed once in a while. If it's really that bad, we'll be buffed sooner or later. And from what i've seen on ptr it's not that bad! So don't cry.

[Hatori_Hanzo]

Anyone who says this isn't needed in pvp is a *********** liar, and you know it. Combat Medic is the best kept pvp secret, just not so best-kept any longer.

[Aritok]

Anyone who says this isn't needed in pvp is a *********** liar, and you know it. Combat Medic is the best kept pvp secret, just not so best-kept any longer.

 

So i have to ask again.

Because combat medic was doing good in PVP, its reason enough to destroy him in PVE?

 

There would have been ALOT other ways to fix the PVP problem with combat medic. And btw, the biggest problem remains the same. The Combat Medic STILL has the shield with 20% increased healing and uninterruptable heals. If you are to stupid to win against a Combat medic now, you will be as well with 1.2.

 

I am no unkillable healer in PVP. Every skilled Battlemaster will rip me (btw, i am no Battlemaster so far).

On the other side, i can own every fresh level 50 without any PVP gear.

Does this mean I am, or my class, is better than this fresh level 50? Or can it maybe be, that the gear is making the difference.

 

 

Every person, who is losing against a combat medic in PVP eighter to stuipd or not geared at the same level.

 

 

Edit:

Just started pvp'ing, after a few tweaks to my machine I'm able to enjoy it. I'm only 35th level ..........

2 weeks ago. Should have known it.

Sorry, but my level 25 Sage was owning in PVP as well. and a combat Medic was a frag and easy to kill. Maybe its really a problem that YOU have with combat medics and not that they are so good.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Aritok

[Soltrooper]

In every decent mmo classes get nerfed once in a while. If it's really that bad, we'll be buffed sooner or later. And from what i've seen on ptr it's not that bad! So don't cry.

 

I've never minded nerfs before because I can step back, look at it from a design viewpoint and see the sense in it. I can't see the sense in this - changing both output and resource management. I'm probably an above average casual, so I have only really PUGged a few HM ops, and I can't see how the nerf is warranted. I can keep people alive with the other healer but it requires judgement, as it is a balancing act most fights, making sure people have enough health to not die. It hasn't felt impossible or overhard, but it doesn't feel point and shoot.

 

On one of the PTS threads a BH said that his group the cleared NM regularly had to go down to hard to get the second boss of KP down. That's a massive issue, when farm mode bosses are no longer doable.

 

My other problem with this whole process is that they are using the top guilds to test changes (not many others will have the time to get to 50 and do testing - to be honest, it's a terrible thing to ask your playerbase to do, spending days of played time so they can get to 50 and test for your bugs. You cannot balance a class based on the top 5% of players, it'll be a disaster for the PUGers like me.

 

I think that the changes could work (except for trauma probe) with a readjustment to the regen level. I think you could balance that out to produce something more difficult but not at the 30% nerf stage. You could even have it as a deep talent in the heal tree if the DPS is nicely balanced. But at the moment there is no change and nothing mentioned looking at that.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Soltrooper

[SpaniardInfinity]

So i have to ask again.

Because combat medic was doing good in PVP, its reason enough to destroy him in PVE?

 

There would have been ALOT other ways to fix the PVP problem with combat medic. And btw, the biggest problem remains the same. The Combat Medic STILL has the shield with 20% increased healing and uninterruptable heals. If you are to stupid to win against a Combat medic now, you will be as well with 1.2.

 

I am no unkillable healer in PVP. Every skilled Battlemaster will rip me (btw, i am no Battlemaster so far).

On the other side, i can own every fresh level 50 without any PVP gear.

Does this mean I am, or my class, is better than this fresh level 50? Or can it maybe be, that the gear is making the difference.

 

 

Every person, who is losing against a combat medic in PVP eighter to stuipd or not geared at the same level.

 

This in a nutshell.

 

To build on it: I said in a previous post if there is any one way that these nerfs almost begin to make sense is if you wanted to argue that we are able to sustain amm nuetrality beyond what is intended. And that does sorta make sense, both in PvP and PvE. However, the mistake I constantly seeing people make is that because we aren't running out of ammo that we aren't managing it and planning what to use. Our main heal costs 25% of our resource if not proc'd by our secondary heal. Our regeneration drops if we go below 67% of our total resource (regeneration is a function of the ammo you have remaining), and drops even lower if we go less than 25%.

 

In other words, for us to maintain our sustained healing outside of that optimal range (8-12) we need to be carefully managing our ammo (cooldowns, free abilities, supercharges). That means our ability to sustain means the player knows how to manage their ammo (or else they won't sustain it and go empty), and was that not the goal in the first place?

 

Simple changes to our regeneration rates - even just in PvP - could have either made the window for players to use smaller (thus taking more skill) or remove it entirely (punishing everyone). In combination with one or two of the changes in 1.2, it probably could have worked with maybe some slight tweaking after the fact. But looking at it from someone who knows both the PvP and PvE consequences, making a sweeping change like this almost definitely will resolve that sustainability problem, but not in a good way that rewards the players, has visible progression (aka a learning curve), and fails to make it more viable, competitive, or attractive to new or seasoned players alike.

 

Also, three things kill any healer in this game:

- CC

- Interrupts

- raw damage

 

Most players, especially pure DPS, have all of these at their disposal. If you fail to make smart use of them, that is not a problem of class balance.

Edited March 21, 2012 by SpaniardInfinity

[katakatak]

yep i dont expect to see anymore CMs anywhere unfortunately. my guildmates think i am overreacting, but BW won't see this build anymore

[Eillack]

So is there even goign to be a point in beign a commando anymore ? I love how my main is going to be pointless with the X amont of skill points he has as a medic... let alone the other nerfs...

 

Maybe we'll get lucky and someone posts a new respec skill tree for 1.2

[ArcIon]

I can understand class balancing, but what is happening to Commando is just brutal. We are getting nerfed in every area:

 

DPS, DEFENSE, HEALING

 

Where do you draw the line? I'm out there pvping every time i'm online and i'm not seeing Commandos out there face rolling everyone they come across. In fact it's hard to see anything when you are spinning around in a mini force tornado continuously. Commando (pre 1.2) has it's weaknesses, and that is to be expected. I could spec into some areas to try and work past some of the weaknesses. Post 1.2 they are going to just be WEAK overall. I don't disagree w/ the grav round change, but the heal nerf and the defense back stab are just mean spirited. I don't understand those changes at all.

[Soltrooper]

So is there even goign to be a point in beign a commando anymore ? I love how my main is going to be pointless with the X amont of skill points he has as a medic... let alone the other nerfs...

 

Maybe we'll get lucky and someone posts a new respec skill tree for 1.2

 

You can PVP. You'll still do just as well/poorly. Then there'll be another round of PVE nerfs for Commando in 1.3. For PVE, forget it unless you and the group you are in are well above average. You can no longer correct your mistakes or others - there's just no wiggle room any more.

[RuQu]

In Chorusgirl's BH thread, I ran the numbers based on her posted log results and the rotation she says she has had to change to to maintain energy.

 

The math is in her thread, so I won't re-post it all here.

 

Short version:

End result of actual testing:

 

PTS healing during SCC/SCG is 79% of what it is on Live.

[Hologramx]

Well, many commandos are either leaving the game or re-rolling.

I have given up mine too. Not sure if I am going to stay any more in this game with my alts.

It is not only the neft. It is the huge loss of faith in this devs brutal act and insane judgement about balance.

 

It is common sense that you can't kill a healer on 1vs1 in PvP with equal gear, and it is hard for him to kill you too. Commando has no DoT, if they need to heal, they have very little dps to damage you. Anyone complaining is either PvP noob or just trying to kill a healer better or out-gearing him, i.e. that is a typical noob, especially when he considers he can kill anyone on 1vs1.

[An-roo]

The only way I'm not going to leave the game after this nerf of CM is if they give us an in-combat Res ability.

 

I remember the original SWG was nerfed and everyone left - at least they waited a few months longer before ruining it.

 

"If it ain't broke don't fix it."

[Nomaad]

In a game in short supply of healers, good call BW, way to go, I;m so proud of you.

[Gezzer]

Man this looks like it could really blow. Due to RL I'm just now hitting lv48 on my CM main. Does this mean when I hit 50 I'll be pretty much useless for end game content?

 

In regard to PvP, I agree with everything being equal (skill, gear, abilities) that any 1v1 should be a draw. So if all the data says it's not there might be need to change something. But is that really what the data shows or is it just some players with a hidden agenda to have some classes hit real hard with the nerf bat?

As for myself I don't PvP, so don't ask me too. So if these nerfs are meant to balance PvP how is that serving me by reducing the value of a CM in endgame content? WoW has been struggling with this for years and only finally came close to fixing it by letting players dual spec. Rift side stepped the whole question by giving a player a large number of builds. So far everything has shown it's almost impossible to balance both PvE and PvP within one build. The two game modes are too dissimilar for it to ever work without removing virtually everything that distinguishes both classes and play styles.

 

If it's meant to force me to play another class it's the stupidest concept I've ever heard of. I mean some one explain to me why there has to be an equal mix of all the various classes and builds? Even having the same level of factions on a server isn't really needed IMHO. People will play what they enjoy to play, because after all that's why we play, to enjoy ourselves. So it makes SSOOOOO much sense to reduce my enjoyment when there are so many other sources where I can seek it. Maybe I'll get a chance to finally get into Skyrim. Of course that means I unsub since all my time is taken up with another game.

 

Lastly if this is more of a "throw it at the wall and see what sticks" way to balance things, again it's stupid. Sure after a major nerf like this they can continue tweaking it till the devs finally get the balance right. But how long will that take? How long is a player expected to suffer till some bone head dev finally sees they were off the mark, way off the mark, and then start trying to repair the damage? More importantly how many players will be willing to deal with the PITA of playing a gimped class till then?

 

Of course none of this is written in stone till the patch goes live. But often when really big changes are coming developers will stay totally silent on the subject because they don't want to lose focus on the end goal. So I'm not surprised that there hasn't been any clarification on why they're making these changes, and if it's still in the concept phase or is a done deal.

 

I was. I repeat was a WoW player from day one. But just got tired of the same old song and dance. I've also started playing a lot of other MMOs only to quit in disappointment because of poor quality control and execution. I was starting to feel that SWtoR might be my new WoW. Now? Well it looks like it might become my new "old" WoW.

 

Same sh@t different game.

[Cobolt]

Man this looks like it could really blow. Due to RL I'm just now hitting lv48 on my CM main. Does this mean when I hit 50 I'll be pretty much useless for end game content?

 

In regard to PvP, I agree with everything being equal (skill, gear, abilities) that any 1v1 should be a draw. So if all the data says it's not there might be need to change something. But is that really what the data shows or is it just some players with a hidden agenda to have some classes hit real hard with the nerf bat?

As for myself I don't PvP, so don't ask me too. So if these nerfs are meant to balance PvP how is that serving me by reducing the value of a CM in endgame content? WoW has been struggling with this for years and only finally came close to fixing it by letting players dual spec. Rift side stepped the whole question by giving a player a large number of builds. So far everything has shown it's almost impossible to balance both PvE and PvP within one build. The two game modes are too dissimilar for it to ever work without removing virtually everything that distinguishes both classes and play styles.

 

If it's meant to force me to play another class it's the stupidest concept I've ever heard of. I mean some one explain to me why there has to be an equal mix of all the various classes and builds? Even having the same level of factions on a server isn't really needed IMHO. People will play what they enjoy to play, because after all that's why we play, to enjoy ourselves. So it makes SSOOOOO much sense to reduce my enjoyment when there are so many other sources where I can seek it. Maybe I'll get a chance to finally get into Skyrim. Of course that means I unsub since all my time is taken up with another game.

 

Lastly if this is more of a "throw it at the wall and see what sticks" way to balance things, again it's stupid. Sure after a major nerf like this they can continue tweaking it till the devs finally get the balance right. But how long will that take? How long is a player expected to suffer till some bone head dev finally sees they were off the mark, way off the mark, and then start trying to repair the damage? More importantly how many players will be willing to deal with the PITA of playing a gimped class till then?

 

Of course none of this is written in stone till the patch goes live. But often when really big changes are coming developers will stay totally silent on the subject because they don't want to lose focus on the end goal. So I'm not surprised that there hasn't been any clarification on why they're making these changes, and if it's still in the concept phase or is a done deal.

 

I was. I repeat was a WoW player from day one. But just got tired of the same old song and dance. I've also started playing a lot of other MMOs only to quit in disappointment because of poor quality control and execution. I was starting to feel that SWtoR might be my new WoW. Now? Well it looks like it might become my new "old" WoW.

 

Same sh@t different game.

 

Here Here!!

My thoughts exactly, you summed up the words i was trying to convey but couldnt. I too have only just turned 50 recently and this is my main, so i really dont get alot of time to play but am glad to pay the sub each month if im having FUN.

I am a casual gamer and so are all my guildies, some have never played an MMO before, I too played wow since the begining, Im not comparing this to wow but why i stopped playing wow is because it wasnt fun for me anymore, you had to be hard core to compete in anything pve or pvp. Im not saying there shouldnt be hardcore content or hard core rewards. if we CM's already have enough trouble getting in for ops or convincing others that we are viable now how will it be with the 30% nerft to our healing affectiveness?

How much more fun will it be to play?

To sum up what Gezzer said i am here to have fun, once I stop having fun i will take my moneys elswhere simple as that.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Cobolt

[Cobolt]

We all know that in every MMO there is that one class that's harder to play. Commando will most likely be that class now (and the imperial mirror class of course). However, there is always that one guy who makes the class just look bad*****

 

Therefore, I propose a challenge to my commando brothers brave enough to accept it:

 

Go out there and outshine all other classes, take screenshots, record videos and tell stories of your honorable battles in the name of the glorious Republic. Those of you willing to accept the challenge should spread the word and if you'd like, add my new slogan to your sig:

 

"REAL men play commando post 1.2"

 

 

The remainder of this thread (if it last) should be used to post your accomplishments, but only those achieved AFTER 1.2.

 

- Alzor

 

Me smells a BW employee lolz