Lethality > MM Sniper - From a diehard MM supporter

[Zunayson]

Yeah, I tried engineering from MM, and I was amazed by how much better it was

 

Then I tried Lethality

 

As energy-intensive as it was, my burst was simply 2 dots > Weakening Blast > Cull > takedown, YOUDEAD

 

I never even had to use Series of Shots except on that one tank who had 17k hp...

[DestyOwn]

Honestly, Leth/Eng snipers don't stand a chance against MM snipers, maybe the ones on your servers are bad.... see what I did there

 

Lol, cover for cull, ever heard of a skill called Diversion or maybe LoS?? I'd like to see you use SoS and EP when you can't even get into cover. Sure you can use evasion, but any good MM sniper will cancel ambush immediate when they see that giant green bubble, or use Flashbang to neglect the effect. This is why I have a feeling that you've never played a proper MM sniper and think of them as sitting ducks hard casting ambush and snipe all day.

 

MM snipers can LoS just as well, they are capable of instant snipe+ft combo every 6 secs as well as instant casts such as CD, EP, FG. And since ft does not require cover, you are free to reposition after an instant snipe. MM snipers also gain ballistic damper every 6 sec when entering into cover, an often overlooked, but surprisingly effective defensive proc that absorbs 30% incoming damage.

 

So while your strategy requires LoS to even stand a chance (and lets be honest, LoS is not always available) , MM can be equally effective LoSing and completely wipe the floor with leth on an open field. Imo, it comes out with a slight advantage in overall scenarios. And lets not forget, a single cleanse by a team mate will render you completely worthless, but I guess that's another topic since we are talking about 1 vs 1 situation.

 

 

We will see in ranked WZ which is better, as of right now i think leth/eng is superior.

Edited March 19, 2012 by DestyOwn

[Cruorpunctis]

I have, I still prefer MM. Lethality is like an elephant. It hits like a truck but doesn't change direction easily. MM is a lot more nimble. When things change on the battle field and there's a new, higher priority target over the one you were attacking, Marks can immediately start hitting it as hard as possible. Lethality needs to set up Cull again, and that's assuming you're not stuck waiting on Corrosive Grenade to cool down. Marks is also a lot better at pulling a surprise burst on a healer. Lethality telegraphs it every time you're going to attack someone, good healers head for the hills when they see that gas cloud. Marks can drop 10k+ on a healer simultaneously.

 

10k+? Lol ;P

I have burst a full BM merc healer with 20k hp for 100% of his hp in 3 globals on a target swap in huttball.

 

Marauder has the ball + pocket heals. I threw corrosive grenade + dart at the marauder(corrosive splashed onto the heals). The healer proceeded to cleanse the marauder. The second i saw my first dot dissapear, I targeted the healer hit him with corrosive dart > debilitate > explosive probe (while he used escape on my stun) > cull > takedown on his last 6% hp > dead.

 

However, I do believe that in 1.2 with ranked pvp and 8 man grps, lethality and lethality hybrids will be next to useless for pvp when there are multiple good heals cleansing your dots.

[jaakkeli]

10k+? Lol ;P

I have burst a full BM merc healer with 20k hp for 100% of his hp in 3 globals on a target swap in huttball.

 

Marauder has the ball + pocket heals. I threw corrosive grenade + dart at the marauder(corrosive splashed onto the heals). The healer proceeded to cleanse the marauder. The second i saw my first dot dissapear, I targeted the healer hit him with corrosive dart > debilitate > explosive probe (while he used escape on my stun) > cull > takedown on his last 6% hp > dead.

 

Cull lasts 3 seconds, that's 2 globals. So, you spent 6 globals doing this.

 

Not to mention that if a Merc has anywhere near 20k hp he must be in full PvE gear. So, you burst down a 0 expertise guy fairly fast. GRATS.

[Smoldy]

Went lethality about lvl 45. Never looked back, and now I am full BM. Mobility is most important in PvP. I still have the ability to shred anyone with poison stacks, armor debuffs, then cull. But I don't have to sit there in cover while enemies/friends run off to a node, door, or huttball. Sorry will never to back to MM. And if a team is stupid enough to stack, i will corr nade, orb strike, frag, and then FF singles. And watch a whole team die.

 

Its all about preference and playstyle. If it works for you then USE IT!!!

Edited March 22, 2012 by Paralassa
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[Migey]

I was MM, then went Lethality, then EngiLeth, and now back to MM. I switch between MM and Engileth these days.

 

The problem is, Engileth is just a bit too energy intensive - slightly better with the 5 less energy on Cull which will make a differene, but with the slightly lowered damage they balance out. Lethality just requires too much energy to burst down a well geared target who pops any defensive cooldowns or gets a heal. It is very effective, has amazing AoE, and does a ton of damage, but the main problem is that there is no DoT protection. EngiLeth will be useless in rated WZ because good teams will see the DoTs dispelled far too fast. Even if you reapply C-Dart (which costs alot of energy) your C-nade, the more powerful dot, will be on cooldown, and Cull's damage with only one DoT is not worth the energy.

 

MM also has some other things going for it. Orbital Strike is easier to use, having a shorter cooldown and cast time. There are less energy problems and the knockback and armor penetration on Ambush is wonderful. Takedown is much stronger (30% more crit damage) and the spec is more mobile then some people give it credit for - you just have to have skill with timing, control abilities, and popping in and out of cover. The damage is burstier on low armor targets, even if the damage against higher armor targets is terrible (something with Lethality does alot better). One of the biggest advantages is that target switching is so easy. If a healer is on 40%, it is hard for Lethality as you have to use alot of energy, and 2 GCDs of ramp up, to burst him down, leaving one of your highest damage and setup abilities on cooldown. Engineering Probe can be used but has a long cooldown, leaving only Series of Shots or Ambush. If you kill one target your damage on the next will take a long time to ramp up, or maybe you won't be able to do it at all. The only ramp up time for MM consists on Shatter Shotting high armor targets. It is incredibly easy to switch targets almost instantly, and unleash a ton of damage on them. As most of your abilities are cast time, and draw energy at the end of the cast, your less likely to waste a cooldown and a ton of energy as you are on Lethality - its pretty common for smart players to time their interupts (if im out of cover) or knockbacks/stuns/CCs for when i start using Cull, meaning i get only 1 tick out of it. Stealthers can cloak it, healers can time their dispells for when you use Cull making it a complete waste of energy, Sorcs and Sins can use force speed to LoS it, etc.

 

In short, i think that Lethality is great in some ways, but in competitive PvP play and rated warzones, MM or an MM based hybrid will be the only viable option.

[Delease]

Not like it is going to matter when ranked wz come out. Can't really see snipers being on the high priority list of ACs wanted.

[Migey]

Maybe not, but they certainly won't be useless.

 

I believe they are the only, or one of the only classes with an instant 20% armor debuff - both Juggs and Arsenal BHs need three casts of their armor debuffing ability to stack it to 20.

 

One of the only two classes with a healing debuff in 1.2, and the only class to have it on range AND with a 20% armor debuff.

 

Strong aoe in the form of Orbital Strike.

 

Probably more control then any other class in the game with an arsenal of knockbacks, stuns, interupts, and roots.

 

One of, if not the, only class with a 30 yard range interupt.

 

One of the only two classes with an AoE 8 second stun, only class to have it at range.

 

Two powerful knockbacks (in MM spec).

 

Fantastic burst damage, especially against targets without heavy armor.

 

Solid sustained damage over a long period of time.

 

Aoe defensive cooldown helping the entire group - can be instrumental when defending a node or center of Huttball.

 

Scales very well with high amounts of gear.

 

Is not as squishy as some classes.

 

Incredibly powerful execute when talented (have crit up to 4k).

 

Can easily lock down a single healer in a group engagement.

 

 

 

I'm not saying they are the best class, but they are certainly effective and have alot to bring to rated warzones. Alot of what they have can be brought by other classes in different ways, but Snipers are probably the best ranged dps class in terms of utility and damage (Sorc dps havn't as much burst or control, BHs havn't nearly as much utility or control).

Edited March 19, 2012 by Migey

[painsponge]

I was MM, then went Lethality, then EngiLeth, and now back to MM. I switch between MM and Engileth these days.

 

The problem is, Engileth is just a bit too energy intensive - slightly better with the 5 less energy on Cull which will make a differene, but with the slightly lowered damage they balance out. Lethality just requires too much energy to burst down a well geared target who pops any defensive cooldowns or gets a heal. It is very effective, has amazing AoE, and does a ton of damage, but the main problem is that there is no DoT protection. EngiLeth will be useless in rated WZ because good teams will see the DoTs dispelled far too fast. Even if you reapply C-Dart (which costs alot of energy) your C-nade, the more powerful dot, will be on cooldown, and Cull's damage with only one DoT is not worth the energy.

 

MM also has some other things going for it. Orbital Strike is easier to use, having a shorter cooldown and cast time. There are less energy problems and the knockback and armor penetration on Ambush is wonderful. Takedown is much stronger (30% more crit damage) and the spec is more mobile then some people give it credit for - you just have to have skill with timing, control abilities, and popping in and out of cover. The damage is burstier on low armor targets, even if the damage against higher armor targets is terrible (something with Lethality does alot better). One of the biggest advantages is that target switching is so easy. If a healer is on 40%, it is hard for Lethality as you have to use alot of energy, and 2 GCDs of ramp up, to burst him down, leaving one of your highest damage and setup abilities on cooldown. Engineering Probe can be used but has a long cooldown, leaving only Series of Shots or Ambush. If you kill one target your damage on the next will take a long time to ramp up, or maybe you won't be able to do it at all. The only ramp up time for MM consists on Shatter Shotting high armor targets. It is incredibly easy to switch targets almost instantly, and unleash a ton of damage on them. As most of your abilities are cast time, and draw energy at the end of the cast, your less likely to waste a cooldown and a ton of energy as you are on Lethality - its pretty common for smart players to time their interupts (if im out of cover) or knockbacks/stuns/CCs for when i start using Cull, meaning i get only 1 tick out of it. Stealthers can cloak it, healers can time their dispells for when you use Cull making it a complete waste of energy, Sorcs and Sins can use force speed to LoS it, etc.

 

In short, i think that Lethality is great in some ways, but in competitive PvP play and rated warzones, MM or an MM based hybrid will be the only viable option.

 

Well said, MM snipers' mobility is widely underrated on this forum.

 

Lets see, Leth's big hitter Cull is a 3sec channel cast, and most would get into cover to use it in order to avoid interrupts. MM's big hitter Ambush requires cover, is a 2.5sec cast, or 1.5sec with snipe crit proc. When it comes to their main burst abilities, the two is nearly identical in the mobility department or even slightly favours the MM.

 

Snipe can be instant cast every 6 secs, FT can be used outside of cover, everything else such as CD, SoS, FG, TD share the same mechanic. The only two skills that Leth/Eng that arguably give them mobility advantage are IP and CG. But for every CG, a MM can get in 2 instant snipe+ft combos, and possible 3 for each IP. (remember FT does not require cover) So you really have to ask whether the slight mobility gain is worth the huge sacrifice in burst damage.

 

Honestly, MM's mobility is definitely there. The problem is many players simply don't take advantage of it and prefer to play turret instead.

Edited March 19, 2012 by painsponge

[psi_overtake]

Well said, MM snipers' mobility is widely underrated on this forum.

 

Very much this!

[Cruorpunctis]

Cull lasts 3 seconds, that's 2 globals. So, you spent 6 globals doing this.

 

Not to mention that if a Merc has anywhere near 20k hp he must be in full PvE gear. So, you burst down a 0 expertise guy fairly fast. GRATS.

 

I have a little over 5% Total alacrity(including the talent) + Target Acquired = 25% Alacrity, so no it was not "6 globals"

My cull lasted ~2.25 seconds, so Explosive probe (1 global) + Cull(1.5 globals) + Takedown(1 global) = 3.5 globals to go from 96% to 0% hp.

No I do not count my stun as the first global involved in the burst since it doesn't really do damage, and especially considering that he escaped from it and cast 1 heal with that interupt immunity that mercs have (which also decreases the damage he takes by 20% so that put his damage reduction higher then a BM sorc healer's >.>)

 

Also if you don't believe that I can do that kind of damage, here is a screenshot from Huttball. http://imageshack.us/f/444/screenshot2012031905202.jpg/

Nearly all single target, the only non single target comes from 2x I used orbital on 3-5 people... which I would have also done in an mm or mm/eng build.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Cruorpunctis

[mhbeast]

Honestly, MM's mobility is definitely there. The problem is many players simply don't take advantage of it and prefer to play turret instead.

 

Exactly this^^

 

It seems to me like those of you who can't make MM work as well as Leth are simply doing it wrong.. MM mobility is just as good as Leth with all things considered.. You may not be forced to drop cover with Leth.. but you should anyway.. Why even use cull without dropping cover? Using cover in that situation is simply better.. As MM i'm never standing in one place. The longer you remain in one place, the more likely you are to get jumped out when you have no cooldowns. Then you are in the gy not helping anyone. NOTE: I'm not sure how many MM do this, but I spec into the Debilitate talent in Lethality that gives you 30% sprint after your debilitate.. Works wonders for you mobility.. and Leg Shot, Leg Shot, Leg Shot. You cant use Leg Shot enough.. On top of all this, in 1.2 you will be able to drop cover on edges and while you are immobilized, so that should make a huuuuuge improvement.

 

Entrench... anytime i see a die hard Lethality fan knock on entrench because it's easy to LOS, i wanna bang my head against the wall. NOTE: in 1.2 you will take 90% less aoe dmg when Entrenched so you will not be forced to relocate when heavy aoe is dropped on your entrench. That said.. DONT LET THEM LOS! You have plenty of tools... Leg shot is key.. if talented, its only on a 12sec cd. Flash bang in between leg shots to wait for leg shot cd. However that's only for ranged.. but as a ranged class, thats a benefit you get, the ability to LOS other ranged classes easier. Now if a melee class runs up on entrench... you are golden... there are soooo many tools to keep melee of you while you are glued to your entrench. If you can't find a way, im sorry. However if you think about it in terms of the arguement at hand... if I pop entrench and the person im fighting goes LOS to heal, then i have successfully taken them out of the game with 1cd...

 

After all arguements have been read.. each sniper will choose a spec based on personal preference. I'm just sick of seeing people trying to argue that one spec is better than the other for pvp. MM scales just as good with gear as Leth does... MM has just as much utility and mobility as Leth does (its just not as obvious). All it comes down to is play style (and if you don't have a good computer... dropping cover will suck for you). Just know that having the highest dmg score in huttball doesn't me ****.. ;]

 

FINAL NOTE: Think about this... As lethality im doing 300k dmg per huttball match. This means I'm most likely blowing people up.. Mass ammounts of enemies are dying by my hand. But as we get the ball close to the endzone (my whole team has no CDs and is at half health now) All those enemies i just **** on are now pouring out of the gy and killing the ball carrier just before he scores..

 

Now... The marksman sniper is standing on the ledges in the middle (maybe even just on the ground in mid) and they are CCing the enemy team in place. Flash bangs and leg shots and knockbacks so that the enemy is stuck in mid while we run the ball in front of them to score. I may have only gotten 200k dmg in this huttball game, but my team scored a bunch because i was focused on bursting healers and ccing the enemy team to create gaps for our ball carrier. Now, im not saying Lethality can't do this, because they certainly have the CC for it (granted they are missing a little utility that only MM has) but a lethality sniper is typically focused strictly on killing everything. I know its hard to look at the scoreboard at the end and see all the hybrid classes higher in dmg than you even though you are a pure dps class, but pure dps isn't what you are bringing to a WZ. You may not have the choice to tank or heal, but you certainly are not strict dps as a sniper. You are a CC machine than can burst harder than probably any other class single target. You are there to create gaps and surprise healers when their shields go down. Leave top dmg to the hybrid sorcs that can instant chain lightning and just help your team win instead.

[Cruorpunctis]

Exactly this^^

 

It seems to me like those of you who can't make MM work as well as Leth are simply doing it wrong.. MM mobility is just as good as Leth with all things considered.. You may not be forced to drop cover with Leth.. but you should anyway.. Why even use cull without dropping cover? Using cover in that situation is simply better.. As MM i'm never standing in one place. The longer you remain in one place, the more likely you are to get jumped out when you have no cooldowns. Then you are in the gy not helping anyone. NOTE: I'm not sure how many MM do this, but I spec into the Debilitate talent in Lethality that gives you 30% sprint after your debilitate.. Works wonders for you mobility.. and Leg Shot, Leg Shot, Leg Shot. You cant use Leg Shot enough.. On top of all this, in 1.2 you will be able to drop cover on edges and while you are immobilized, so that should make a huuuuuge improvement.

 

Entrench... anytime i see a die hard Lethality fan knock on entrench because it's easy to LOS, i wanna bang my head against the wall. NOTE: in 1.2 you will take 90% less aoe dmg when Entrenched so you will not be forced to relocate when heavy aoe is dropped on your entrench. That said.. DONT LET THEM LOS! You have plenty of tools... Leg shot is key.. if talented, its only on a 12sec cd. Flash bang in between leg shots to wait for leg shot cd. However that's only for ranged.. but as a ranged class, thats a benefit you get, the ability to LOS other ranged classes easier. Now if a melee class runs up on entrench... you are golden... there are soooo many tools to keep melee of you while you are glued to your entrench. If you can't find a way, im sorry. However if you think about it in terms of the arguement at hand... if I pop entrench and the person im fighting goes LOS to heal, then i have successfully taken them out of the game with 1cd...

 

After all arguements have been read.. each sniper will choose a spec based on personal preference. I'm just sick of seeing people trying to argue that one spec is better than the other for pvp. MM scales just as good with gear as Leth does... MM has just as much utility and mobility as Leth does (its just not as obvious). All it comes down to is play style (and if you don't have a good computer... dropping cover will suck for you). Just know that having the highest dmg score in huttball doesn't me ****.. ;]

 

FINAL NOTE: Think about this... As lethality im doing 300k dmg per huttball match. This means I'm most likely blowing people up.. Mass ammounts of enemies are dying by my hand. But as we get the ball close to the endzone (my whole team has no CDs and is at half health now) All those enemies i just **** on are now pouring out of the gy and killing the ball carrier just before he scores..

 

Now... The marksman sniper is standing on the ledges in the middle (maybe even just on the ground in mid) and they are CCing the enemy team in place. Flash bangs and leg shots and knockbacks so that the enemy is stuck in mid while we run the ball in front of them to score. I may have only gotten 200k dmg in this huttball game, but my team scored a bunch because i was focused on bursting healers and ccing the enemy team to create gaps for our ball carrier. Now, im not saying Lethality can't do this, because they certainly have the CC for it (granted they are missing a little utility that only MM has) but a lethality sniper is typically focused strictly on killing everything. I know its hard to look at the scoreboard at the end and see all the hybrid classes higher in dmg than you even though you are a pure dps class, but pure dps isn't what you are bringing to a WZ. You may not have the choice to tank or heal, but you certainly are not strict dps as a sniper. You are a CC machine than can burst harder than probably any other class single target. You are there to create gaps and surprise healers when their shields go down. Leave top dmg to the hybrid sorcs that can instant chain lightning and just help your team win instead.

 

You don't have to be mm to cc....

I use lethality as a primarily single target burst spec, and I cc ppl all the time for my team to score.. lol.

[mhbeast]

You don't have to be mm to cc....

I use lethality as a primarily single target burst spec, and I cc ppl all the time for my team to score.. lol.

 

Maybe you forgot how to read... Or simply missed the part where is specifically said it's not like lethality snipers can't CC, it's just not their initial focus... killing things is. Read posts before baggin on them..

[Veala]

I have a little over 5% Total alacrity(including the talent) + Target Acquired = 25% Alacrity, so no it was not "6 globals"

My cull lasted ~2.25 seconds, so Explosive probe (1 global) + Cull(1.5 globals) + Takedown(1 global) = 3.5 globals to go from 96% to 0% hp.

No I do not count my stun as the first global involved in the burst since it doesn't really do damage, and especially considering that he escaped from it and cast 1 heal with that interupt immunity that mercs have (which also decreases the damage he takes by 20% so that put his damage reduction higher then a BM sorc healer's >.>)

 

Also if you don't believe that I can do that kind of damage, here is a screenshot from Huttball. http://imageshack.us/f/444/screenshot2012031905202.jpg/

Nearly all single target, the only non single target comes from 2x I used orbital on 3-5 people... which I would have also done in an mm or mm/eng build.

 

Just so you know, this is pretty much mathematically impossible. If his damage shield was up that means you had to do 25,000 damage to a heavy armor wearer with three skills. If Exp Probe and Takedown both hit for 4k (which is stretching imagination against a heavy armor wearer) that means your Cull plus dot ticks would have had to do 17,000 damage. I'm in full BM with power mods and Rakata mixed in and I've never seen anything close to that much damage from a single Cull even with all my buffs popped.

 

I'm not saying he didn't die, but you had to have had at least one other person helping you that you didn't notice for your claims to be mathematically possible.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Veala

[Cruorpunctis]

Maybe you forgot how to read... Or simply missed the part where is specifically said it's not like lethality snipers can't CC, it's just not their initial focus... killing things is. Read posts before baggin on them..

Actually it is their speciality/focus, even more so then mm, considering the lethality hybrid get more cc talents then mm does including a reduced CD on flashbang ;P

Or at least it should be if your a good sniper.

Also add in the 30% 3 person slow from corrosive grenade and the 30% single target slow from IP which u can use on ppl chasing your ball carrier.... ;P

[Cruorpunctis]

Just so you know, this is pretty much mathematically impossible. If his damage shield was up that means you had to do 25,000 damage to a heavy armor wearer with three skills. If Exp Probe and Takedown both hit for 4k (which is stretching imagination against a heavy armor wearer) that means your Cull plus dot ticks would have had to do 18,000 damage. I'm in full BM with power mods and Rakata mixed in and I've never seen anything close to that much damage from a single Cull even with all my buffs popped.

 

I'm not saying he didn't die, but you had to have had at least one other person helping you that you didn't notice for your claims to be mathematically possible.

 

I had expertise adrenal + rakata power relic + target acquired popped. My explosive probe does about 5k dmg on average including the cluster bombs, my takedown hit for 4.3k, my cull does 12-14k on average with everything popped and the dots on him did about 3k i'd assume. I also have the pve rakata trinket from G4 which most likely procced 2-3 times during that.

 

Ah I did forget to respond to your other comment about someone else helping, which there was a merc from my team using DFA, so thats probably another 3-4k damage to the healer. But either way i'm merely saying it can burst harder then pure mm or mm/eng

Edited March 20, 2012 by Cruorpunctis

[Noctournys]

I have a little over 5% Total alacrity(including the talent) + Target Acquired = 25% Alacrity, so no it was not "6 globals"

My cull lasted ~2.25 seconds, so Explosive probe (1 global) + Cull(1.5 globals) + Takedown(1 global) = 3.5 globals to go from 96% to 0% hp.

No I do not count my stun as the first global involved in the burst since it doesn't really do damage, and especially considering that he escaped from it and cast 1 heal with that interupt immunity that mercs have (which also decreases the damage he takes by 20% so that put his damage reduction higher then a BM sorc healer's >.>)

 

Also if you don't believe that I can do that kind of damage, here is a screenshot from Huttball. http://imageshack.us/f/444/screenshot2012031905202.jpg/

Nearly all single target, the only non single target comes from 2x I used orbital on 3-5 people... which I would have also done in an mm or mm/eng build.

 

..+2 globals: Corrosive Dart, Corrosive Grenade. Kthxbai

[BardaTheHobo]

In pug warzones it is great. But in the future with rated warzones i see lethality failing. It only takes one scoundrel/operative healer (good) to negate most of your damage, 5 second cd i think for cleanse and it heals. Also seeing the notes there are probably going to be more operative/scoundrel healers around. Against a well coordinated team letahlity i see failing, atm I queue with a healing scoundrel and all we have to do is call out the dots and they are gone which results in low cull damage. I mean I run lethality/dirty fighting, on my gunslinger from time to time and the damage is epic, until the opposing team has a good operative/scoundrel healer, also bh's/commandos can cleanse it to, just not sorcerers. But we shall see, maybe there will be only a few good cleansers out there.

[mhbeast]

Actually it is their speciality/focus, even more so then mm, considering the lethality hybrid get more cc talents then mm does including a reduced CD on flashbang ;P

Or at least it should be if your a good sniper.

Also add in the 30% 3 person slow from corrosive grenade and the 30% single target slow from IP which u can use on ppl chasing your ball carrier.... ;P

 

As MM i still take the reduced FB cooldown. I also get the 30% sprint talent after you debilitate from the lethality tree. As marks you also get 3 seconds off your leg shot CD which is huge. I'd take that over the IP slow anyday. You also get an extra knockback on ambush with marks (and im sorry, but knocking someone back off a ledge is far superior to a 6second slow for every 12 seconds). If you spec into it, MM can create an even bigger gap with cover pulse.

 

Again.. Im NOT saying lethality doesn't have the CC. I'm saying MOST lethality snipers are aiming to top dmg in a WZ instead of CC for the win. MM snipers (since they typically finish in the middle of dmg scores) are more inclined to use their other utilities to help win. It's just like when you say MOST healers will never cleanse your poisons. Doesn't mean they all suck, just means some of them suck..

[Cruorpunctis]

..+2 globals: Corrosive Dart, Corrosive Grenade. Kthxbai

 

I was talking about burst.. that the healer wasn't expecting >.>

I already had corrosive grenade on him from when I had been targeting the marauder next to him who had the ball.

[painsponge]

I had expertise adrenal + rakata power relic + target acquired popped. My explosive probe does about 5k dmg on average including the cluster bombs, my takedown hit for 4.3k, my cull does 12-14k on average with everything popped and the dots on him did about 3k i'd assume. I also have the pve rakata trinket from G4 which most likely procced 2-3 times during that.

 

Ah I did forget to respond to your other comment about someone else helping, which there was a merc from my team using DFA, so thats probably another 3-4k damage to the healer. But either way i'm merely saying it can burst harder then pure mm or mm/eng

 

 

And I believe your claim. But you are trying to use an extremely marginalized scenario to present lethality burst. In order to do what you've said,

 

1. all of your cooldowns have to be up

2. all of your attacks crit

3. multiple pve trinket procs

4. no cleanse on the target

 

It's just too unreliable to be used as an argument for lethality burst. Since for every one of these "bursts" you are equally susceptible of having the DoTs removed just before Cull, resulting in pitiful damage and leave you w/o energy. With rated on the horizon, I fear the latter will end up to be a more likely scenario.

Edited March 20, 2012 by painsponge

[Cruorpunctis]

And I believe your claim. But you are trying to use an extremely marginalized scenario to present lethality burst. In order to do what you've said,

 

1. all of your cooldowns have to be up

2. all of your attacks crit

3. multiple pve trinket procs

4. no cleanse on the target

 

It's just too unreliable to be used as an argument for lethality burst. Since for every one of these "bursts" you are equally susceptible of having the DoTs removed just before Cull, resulting in pitiful damage and leave you w/o energy. With rated on the horizon, I fear the latter will end up to be a more likely scenario.

 

First, I did say that I didn't think that it would work well in a rated environment.

Second, The cds being up applies to MM's burst as well.

Third, not nearly all of my attacks crit. I said my explosive probe does 5k on average including the cluster bombs not everything critting etc.

Fourth, the trinket proc happens almost every 1.5 seconds for me as a lethality hybrid.. all of the time ;P

Fifth, the target was cleansing my dots on the ball carrier - which was why i switched to him. I through the debilitate on him so that the stun + the surpise target switch would delay him till my burst was already under way so that his only chance of surviving was to heal himself.

[vimm]

I was talking about burst.. that the healer wasn't expecting >.>

I already had corrosive grenade on him from when I had been targeting the marauder next to him who had the ball.

 

Because it's an AoE! Ahaha, how convenient!

[Cruorpunctis]

Because it's an AoE! Ahaha, how convenient!

 

Well its not exactly an aoe compared to say, frag grenade or orbital but ya ;P

That is yet another reason it works well for target swapping and then bursting.