Riptose in PvP (Level 50 Watchman Specs)

[Lightzzoutt]

You guys can be good. In fact, you may very well be kings of your little server somewhere. I'm just telling you how you could be better. One day, they'll merge servers and you'll have to step up or game.

 

Or not. I mean, if you are happy to be B+ players, the enjoy SWTOR the way you are playing it.

 

Or you are gonna end up being my rival and realizing that my merc strike is on you constantly while you are striking me to get a cauterize off.

 

Either way yeah. You are gonna realize to not use $ hit attacks.

[Lightzzoutt]

also do you not utilize force kick? If you don't I can see how you have extra focus now.

[Brendanewbank]

I also personally took it off my bar. There might be a kind of synergy if you invested 2/2 Recompense and 2/2 Jedi Crusader, but there simply aren't enough points to get those talents maxed out in a proper PvP build. You would have to sacrifice somewhere else.

 

Riposte's bang to buck ratio is meh. And the only way to maximize Watchman dps is to ensure you have enough Focus to use OS/Caut/Merc EVERY SINGLE TIME they're off CD. Now consider that a good Watchman will likely be using Merc Slash every 7.5 seconds, and Caut every 6 seconds. You would need at least 7 Focus saved up at ALL times. There are simply way, way more important abilities to be used.

 

Merc Slash > Riposte

OS > Riposte

Caut > Riposte

Slash > Riposte (I say this because it costs less and hits harder)

 

The only thing Riposte has going for it is the guarantee you'll hit. However in half Champ half Rakata right now I'm sitting at 97% accuracy, which will go up here shortly when I swap out some mods (replacing crit/surge with acc/power).

 

Now if you are capped on Focus, sure, use it. I won't say 'no good pvp watchman has Recompense' but you're a minority. My keybind real estate is crowded as is, I never have *nothing* to use Focus on, so I took it off my bar and haven't looked back.

 

*edit* For the record, the only time I'm not #1 damage in Voidstar is when I man up and guard the door that nobody but the occasional stealthy tries to ninja. Otherwise I'm not only #1, but I'm above the next guy by over 100k or more. I say Voidstar because damage in the other two WZ's is entirely too subjective to be an indicator.

 

Mal I'm not sure why you quoted my post, because the above post you made doesn't answer what I was asking haha.

 

Previously someone made a statement that using the "default ability" is a mistake and he was very vague about it. I was wondering if he meant the "Strike" ability, which I believe is something you should be using to build up focus during down time. I was asking for clarification on what he meant.

[Brendanewbank]

Generally, I never have cauterize, zealous, OS, and merciless off all the same time.

 

If they are, I just slash to try and reduce the CD on cauterize. I throw in bladestorm if they are from a distance though.

 

Ah Lightzzoutt you're the person I was asking earlier today, I'm not sure you understood my question.

 

You said earlier that you should never use the "default ability", which leads me to think you're talking about "Strike" but surely I must be mistaken because when Zealous Strike is on CD and you need Focus you have to Strike... unless you are able to use all your abilities without needing it?

 

I'm aware you can leap for focus but still... I end up using Strike a fair amount.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Brendanewbank

[Mal-Sharran]

Mal I'm not sure why you quoted my post, because the above post you made doesn't answer what I was asking haha.

 

Previously someone made a statement that using the "default ability" is a mistake and he was very vague about it. I was wondering if he meant the "Strike" ability, which I believe is something you should be using to build up focus during down time. I was asking for clarification on what he meant.

 

I think I quoted the wrong person, tbh, sorry.

[Asphen]

also do you not utilize force kick? If you don't I can see how you have extra focus now.

 

 

 

Are you simple or somethin'?

 

I'd give credit to any Sentinel player that found these forums, that they'd be using Force Kick.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Asphen

[EclatDeGivre]

I agree with Asphen for most of of it.

 

Riposte is awesome thanks to the fact it's off gcd. In terms of dps/focus riposte/strike (total cost 1 focus for 1 gcd) is awesome.

 

Thanks to Recompense/JC it basically boosts your dps at a very interesting rate as well as your survivability. It is difficult to add it to a priority list as many skills are more important (OS/Cauterize/MercS), but coupled with Pacify or Saber ward, you can anticipate it quite a bit. Or if you play with a Tank vanguard (for smoke bomb) or Tank Guardian (Dust storm) you can also see your riposte coming.

 

Yeah Merciless slash is more important, but you will not teach sents here that Force Kick or Merciless slash is essential to sents fight, everydoby knows that. Here we just talk about the use or no use of Riposte.

 

Ofc you can play without it, it just is better with it.

[Lightzzoutt]

yet to be known. no battle logs

[lxyao]

Recompense and Jedi Crusader? Just to use riposte? Where are you guys getting the skill points from?

[EclatDeGivre]

1 point in JC is mandatory anyway. You cannot ignore 6 free focus every min for 1 talent point. If all talent points could be that good we'd be rocking the battlefield ^^ (for those who are not already xD)

 

2 points in Recompense? Well force sweep n cyclone are funny, but well it is far from being a real boost. Do not get me wrong these points are good. It's just that the added dps from Riposte makes it worth using it, and the reduced CD on rebuke is noticeable. More than force Sweep/cyclone imho.

[Lightzzoutt]

Recompense and Jedi Crusader? Just to use riposte? Where are you guys getting the skill points from?

 

I know. I agree with 1 in Crusade. As I have that. But other than that, skill points are more beneficial in other areas of our trees.

[Asphen]

I know. I agree with 1 in Crusade. As I have that. But other than that, skill points are more beneficial in other areas of our trees.

 

 

Now I know you're simple.

 

 

Actually look at your tree. It is either 2 points Recompense, or 2 points Quick Recovery to get up to tier 2 watchman. This isn't rocket science.

 

Like really dude, you are totally that guy in the starting area, that couldn't move the rock on his own, so I had to move it for you.

 

Did you even build your own lightsaber?

[Lightzzoutt]

Now I know you're simple.

 

 

Actually look at your tree. It is either 2 points Recompense, or 2 points Quick Recovery to get up to tier 2 watchman. This isn't rocket science.

 

Like really dude, you are totally that guy in the starting area, that couldn't move the rock on his own, so I had to move it for you.

 

Did you even build your own lightsaber?

 

Does harassing people over internet help you? I'm sorry if it does.

 

And No Master BobaFett helped me build my Lightsaber.

 

To OP. Riposte is a move that shouldn't be used in lvl 50 Warzones for competitive play.

 

Maybe when you aren't level 50 and don't have all the best moves yet.

[Lightzzoutt]

Now I know you're simple.

 

 

Actually look at your tree. It is either 2 points Recompense, or 2 points Quick Recovery to get up to tier 2 watchman. This isn't rocket science.

 

Like really dude, you are totally that guy in the starting area, that couldn't move the rock on his own, so I had to move it for you.

 

Did you even build your own lightsaber?

 

I actually felt a need to do this for you. You are disrespectful. take a look in the mirror and figure out you aren't a great person.

 

Here is my skill build. http://r2-db.com/skill-tree/calculator/1/jedi-knight/jedi-sentinel#build=2lededckf7i0000000002000000000

[Psybin]

There's no need to be offensive to the guy.

 

1 focus sweeps are awesome in warzones, even as watchman. Not to mention the whole centering building tactic using cyclone.

Not only does sweep do good single target damage per focus cost, but as an AoE is massivley useful in several situations.

Stopping caps, and finishing off low hp people you are not targetting springs to mind.

[Keja]

1 point in JC is mandatory anyway. You cannot ignore 6 free focus every min for 1 talent point. If all talent points could be that good we'd be rocking the battlefield ^^ (for those who are not already xD)

 

I'm not a big fan of Jedi Crusader. If you're taking constant damage you can get 9 or 10 focus out of it - if you survive 30 seconds of constantly taking damage...

 

Realistically, you usually get 1-3 focus from it except in 1v1s where you should win anyway, or 1vXs where you're going to lose anyway.

 

I prefer the guaranteed damage boost of DW Mastery over the uncertainty of an ability that requires you to take constant damage to work.

 

Riposte is a move that shouldn't be used in lvl 50 Warzones for competitive play.

 

Riposte is certainly a limited use ability, but not totally useless. As I said early in the thread before the flame war broke out, if your target uses an ability that makes them hard to hit, riposte is a guaranteed hit that can put a stack of Overload Saber on the target.

 

However, Recompense is a bigger waste of points than Jedi Crusader.

[Lightzzoutt]

I'm not a big fan of Jedi Crusader. If you're taking constant damage you can get 9 or 10 focus out of it - if you survive 30 seconds of constantly taking damage...

 

Realistically, you usually get 1-3 focus from it except in 1v1s where you should win anyway, or 1vXs where you're going to lose anyway.

 

I prefer the guaranteed damage boost of DW Mastery over the uncertainty of an ability that requires you to take constant damage to work.

 

 

 

Riposte is certainly a limited use ability, but not totally useless. As I said early in the thread before the flame war broke out, if your target uses an ability that makes them hard to hit, riposte is a guaranteed hit that can put a stack of Overload Saber on the target.

 

However, Recompense is a bigger waste of points than Jedi Crusader.

 

If I know they are using abilities that make them hard to hit I generally mezz them or forcechoke+force camo. which usually by the end they are vulnerable again.

 

I agree Riposte is a GREAT concept. But we have SO many tools as is that its smarter to invest in skill points that do other things.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Lightzzoutt

[Garrum]

Lol at people vastly overstating the power of riposte. In certain, very specific, situations it's ok, but for the vast majority of the time it's a dead button. And given that it's just damage, not an effect, you can safely take it off your bar and never miss a beat. We have pretty tolerable damage without it. Anyone trying to pretend otherwise is trying way too hard.

[Keja]

If I know they are using abilities that make them hard to hit I generally mezz them or forcechoke+force camo. which usually by the end they are vulnerable again.

 

I agree Riposte is a GREAT concept. But we have SO many tools as is that its smarter to invest in skill points that do other things.

 

Few issues:

 

- Saber Ward, for example, lasts 12 seconds, mez+Stasis+Camo might negate that, but you just used three cooldowns to counter one.

- Sometimes your other abilities are on cooldown. Then what?

- If you're trying to drop a target and they're being healed (or you're almost dead), you might only have one shot at killing them.

- You don't need to (and shouldn't) invest any skill points to use riposte.

 

Please understand that I'm not advocating spamming Riposte. I might use it once or twice a WZ - often times, not at all. I'm only saying that it is a situational ability that can be used to great effect under very special circumstances. As such, it deserves a place on the toolbar.

[Lightzzoutt]

Few issues:

 

- Saber Ward, for example, lasts 12 seconds, mez+Stasis+Camo might negate that, but you just used three cooldowns to counter one.

- Sometimes your other abilities are on cooldown. Then what?

- If you're trying to drop a target and they're being healed (or you're almost dead), you might only have one shot at killing them.

- You don't need to (and shouldn't) invest any skill points to use riposte.

 

Please understand that I'm not advocating spamming Riposte. I might use it once or twice a WZ - often times, not at all. I'm only saying that it is a situational ability that can be used to great effect under very special circumstances. As such, it deserves a place on the toolbar.

 

I understand. but I never said all 3

[Pekish]

PVP is situational i hate when people try to have a "to do list"

 

thats why i find removing riposte form equation just wrong.

There may be a moment when an extra 1500 make the difference between killing a foe or someone healing him up...

 

how can you PVP with rigid rotation?

 

I dont say using riposte all the time is good as i dont say there is a rotation that include or exclude riposte... there is the knowledge that it's on a different cooldown and that in some occasion you may need it right now when everything else is in cooldown or u dont have enough energy for anything else in that istant and it make the difference between killing or not

 

Never ever exclude anything from the bar you never know when u may need it

[Vincedaddy]

I disagree, If riposte didn't cost so much freaking focus I would for sure use it. but juggling focus/burns/Overload/and merciless there is no more focus for it unless you use the defualt ability which you should never be using.

 

My advice. Use you're other skills to drain you're focus. once you only have a 7.5CD on merciless you are owning and riposte is a skill not needed

 

Idk my spec has infinite focus builders so I'm consistently focus dumping after a full rotation, or even during if I'm waiting on a decently sized gcd (merciless w/out the merciless buff stacked to reduce its gcd). Riposte works very well during this time, and coupled with a merc slash can really bring the pain. Although I will say that at times of Having to wait on the cd of cauterize I will slash dump to get cauterize off cd oppose to using riposte.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Vincedaddy

[PantsOn]

If you want to call yourself a good player, Riposte is a 20,000% must.

 

 

 

Make me scream, all the terribad Sentinels, that don't even have Riposte on their bar. Riposte/Rebuke is an amazing engine for the Sentinel class. Even more so when you talent for 2 points Recompense, 1 point Jedi Crusader.

 

It's a busload of Focus, Damage Reduction, and Damage Infliction. It boggles my mind why people don't have Riposte on their bar. WHY U NO RIPOSTE?

 

***Honorable mention of other threads, where Riposte hits at the same time as another attack, lots more burst, 40,010% accuracy with both lightsabers (even that offhand one), piles on DoT (in case of primary GCD missed), and lots of other random stuff, but you can find all that in other forum threads***

 

I'll admit, fer a long time I used to have two points in Quick Recovery, and I was slow to switch them over, but Recompense is the path to greatness.

 

Except for the fact that Recompense and Jedi Crusader are a waste of points for end game PvE.

 

For a pure PvP build? Sure, invest in them as you see fit.

[Asphen]

Except for the fact that Recompense and Jedi Crusader are a waste of points for end game PvE.

 

For a pure PvP build? Sure, invest in them as you see fit.

 

 

 

Not so, and it will be easy for you to test on your next operation raid.

 

 

Just about any pull, or any boss, go ahead and cut Rubuke loose. Even if you are a great little Sentinel staying out of harms way, you will tke enough splash/bleed damage to keep refreshing Rebuke.

 

You already know it's true, because the healer has to sometimes give you a hot, or you keep up with zen healing etc. There is plenty of minor damage flying around to keep up Rebuke, dealing reactive damage and pulling in focus.

 

(If there wasn't, all encounters would just be 'single target focus heal the tank' events.)

 

Seriously though, this one is easy enough for you to test yourself, just give it a try yer next Ops raid.

[Cancrizans]

If you want to call yourself a good player, Riposte is a 20,000% must.

 

 

 

Make me scream, all the terribad Sentinels, that don't even have Riposte on their bar. Riposte/Rebuke is an amazing engine for the Sentinel class. Even more so when you talent for 2 points Recompense, 1 point Jedi Crusader.

 

It's a busload of Focus, Damage Reduction, and Damage Infliction. It boggles my mind why people don't have Riposte on their bar. WHY U NO RIPOSTE?

 

***Honorable mention of other threads, where Riposte hits at the same time as another attack, lots more burst, 40,010% accuracy with both lightsabers (even that offhand one), piles on DoT (in case of primary GCD missed), and lots of other random stuff, but you can find all that in other forum threads***

 

I'll admit, fer a long time I used to have two points in Quick Recovery, and I was slow to switch them over, but Recompense is the path to greatness.

 

Hey braintrust, it eats up a ton of Focus. Maybe play the class a little before posting complete nonsense. It is not a cost effective skill for Sentinels.