Retaliation Annoyance

[Murmurrr]

As an anni spec marauder, I like to use retaliation if it is available and chain it together with an assault if my other stuff is on cooldown (if I need to decide between using a vicious slash or an assault for my next attack)

 

I noticed something today that I am actually not surprised about and am a little ashamed I didn't notice earlier... I thought that since retaliation was off the GCD, by using retal+assault in the same gcd it would not only save me 1 extra rage compared to using vicious slash, but it would also do more damage. Great huh?

 

Unfortunately, as everyone knows, assault hits in a chain of 3 swings. What I realized today was that you only get 1 of the swings if you immediately use retaliation; the animation for retaliation cancels the damage from 2/3 of your assault...

 

That happens if you push them together at the same time, which I always do because of my jittery button presses. I guess it would still work if you just delayed your retaliation to the end of the GCD from assault...

 

I was just wondering if any other marauders noticed or knew about this.

[Foxcolt]

Here's what was going through my head while I read your post...

 

"hmm..my retaliation is bound to shift 4.."

"when was the last time I actually used it?..level 30ish I think"

"I should get rid of it entirely and put something else in that quickslot"

 

 

the dmg vs rage cost is terrible..just use VS followed by BA.

[Murmurrr]

Look at the damage on your vicious slash and consider the rage cost. It costs a net of 2 rage to cast, and deals whatever damage, right?

 

Now consider in the same GCD using assault and retaliation. In the same amount of time, you cost a net of 1 rage, and you do far more tooltip damage than the VS. Unless your rupture is on cooldown and you are fishing for that 33% chance to grab it back, I would suggest using assault+retaliation (but obviously delay the retaliation because it will clip your assault dmg! )

[VictorLototskyy]

Retaliation is very usefull when you need to spike your damage. Especially when you're doing chain like: Ravage->Annihilation->Retaliaion. Having saber word popped it's just ridicilous burst.

[Foxcolt]

Look at the damage on your vicious slash and consider the rage cost. It costs a net of 2 rage to cast, and deals whatever damage, right?

 

Now consider in the same GCD using assault and retaliation. In the same amount of time, you cost a net of 1 rage, and you do far more tooltip damage than the VS. Unless your rupture is on cooldown and you are fishing for that 33% chance to grab it back, I would suggest using assault+retaliation (but obviously delay the retaliation because it will clip your assault dmg! )

 

Not sure you're getting it..regardless of where you use retaliation the rage spent on it has a lower damage to rage ratio then using the rage on VS, rupture, anything else.

 

So essentially you're losing dps by wasting the rage on retaliation rather than saving it for VS etc etc.

 

This is in regards to pvp and maybe boss fights with aoe dmg :/ not sure..essentially at lvl 50 there's no reason to use retaliation as a marauder..not for dps at least. Maybe for pvp dailies when a mob is low?

 

If you're still leveling then by all means retaliate/kick/pommel strike to your hearts content.

[Foxcolt]

Retaliation is very usefull when you need to spike your damage. Especially when you're doing chain like: Ravage->Annihilation->Retaliaion. Having saber word popped it's just ridicilous burst.

 

how the hell does (I'm assuming you meant) saber ward..have anything to do with burst dmg?

 

Maybe you mean deadly saber?

[Daystarr]

how the hell does (I'm assuming you meant) saber ward..have anything to do with burst dmg?

 

Maybe you mean deadly saber?

 

No, he means Saber Ward. Having Saber Ward active while taking damage increases the chance to use Retaliation coz of the +50% defense increase.

[Murmurrr]

Wait, I think it's just the damage numbers wont appear over their head if you clip the assault. From using assault on normal low hp mobs its easy to see that all of the damage from assault hits them at once even though the numbers don't show up at the same time the damage is dealt.

 

Weird...

 

/thread

[Angelfeeties]

Retaliation is very usefull when you need to spike your damage. Especially when you're doing chain like: Ravage->Annihilation->Retaliaion. Having saber word popped it's just ridicilous burst.

 

This sentiment exactly. In PVE, retaliation will have no place in an Annihilation DPS rotation. But in PVP, it's all about the burst. The damage you can chain together into a single GCD attack, with the above example, is insane. Also, those people running Cloak of Carnage and Empowerment will have a significant increase in rage generation, enough to sustain the use of Retaliation in most situations.

[verfallen]

This sentiment exactly. In PVE, retaliation will have no place in an Annihilation DPS rotation. But in PVP, it's all about the burst. The damage you can chain together into a single GCD attack, with the above example, is insane. Also, those people running Cloak of Carnage and Empowerment will have a significant increase in rage generation, enough to sustain the use of Retaliation in most situations.

 

Very false. If you want to take on champs, having the CD reduction on Cloak of Pain really helps the harder one.

 

As for WHEN to use it, right at the same time as a one-hitter or before any attack.

 

Retaliation->ravage

 

Retaliation->assault

 

Force charge->retaliation (insert any of the other abilities there)

 

Having the rage building on Cloak of pain from the carnage tree help)

 

Note this spec is a very much offtank one, or solo PvE of bigger mob and H2.

 

You'll most likely sacrify 1-2 boost to the DPS by choosing them.

 

It makes however, for the best survivability I saw with this class, without rage shortage with multiple rage-building. (battering assault, force charge (close quarter), the bleeds and cloak of pain all building rage)

[Angelfeeties]

Very false. If you want to take on champs, having the CD reduction on Cloak of Pain really helps the harder one.

 

As for WHEN to use it, right at the same time as a one-hitter or before any attack.

 

Retaliation->ravage

 

Retaliation->assault

 

Force charge->retaliation (insert any of the other abilities there)

 

Having the rage building on Cloak of pain from the carnage tree help)

 

Note this spec is a very much offtank one, or solo PvE of bigger mob and H2.

 

You'll most likely sacrify 1-2 boost to the DPS by choosing them.

 

It makes however, for the best survivability I saw with this class, without rage shortage with multiple rage-building. (battering assault, force charge (close quarter), the bleeds and cloak of pain all building rage)

 

 

Retaliation is a net DPS loss during a standard single-target DPS rotation. I shouldn't have to point out the fact that it can't even proc unless your getting hit, and Marauders don't off-tank Operation bosses. Cute fluffy leveling specs are redundant once you hit 50.

[verfallen]

Retaliation is a net DPS loss during a standard single-target DPS rotation. I shouldn't have to point out the fact that it can't even proc unless your getting hit, and Marauders don't off-tank Operation bosses. Cute fluffy leveling specs are redundant once you hit 50.

 

Yes thanks, I mention that its not as much DPS as you can get already. Luckily, you get awesome respec trainer on the fleet!

 

While solo PvE leveling, its quite nice however, which is my point.