What is broken about resolve...?

[kweassa]

Possibly the most clueless post I've ever read. I'll accept your argument for stealth as a gap closer when my vanish is on a 30 second CD, till then, your opinion is meaningless.

 

Not as clueless as the way you are (obvioulsy) using your Ops/Scoundy, considering the fact that seasoned stealth class players have no problems in finishing the fight they started.

 

Basically, the "Way of the Stealth" is: (1) Only commit to a fight which you can finish/survive on top of; (2) If not, run away to find another prey.

 

Why do you think they gave you invisibility in the first place?

 

 

As for your second point, there wasn't really any point at all. Sorcerers have countless ways to keep at a distance from their opponent. If their channel had no snare at all they would do just as well in Warzones. It's simply another unecessary CC.

 

Countless is the number of hair on my arse.

 

Every "escape move" a sorc/sage wields can be easily countered with elementary level tactics for every melee (except Ops/Scoundies, which shouldn't be engaging sorc/sages in an open field of fire anyway), and vice versa for the sorc/sage.

 

It's a mind game of who uses/opens up with which skill and who counters it with how, and many, many, many Guardians, Juggernauts, Marauders and Sentinels have no problems whatsoever in indulging in that game.

 

If anything, the majority of sorc/sage players are pretty much sucky and predictable, hence almost never, would I find a sorc/sage that can get away - not counting the situation where there's a speed boost nearby or someone hastily comes to its aid.

 

 

TL/DR; "Only sucky melee players have problems in catching up with sorc/sages"

 

 

And as for your last point, I can only assume you had a stroke while typing. Because back to back stuns for 4 seconds per happen constantly in PvP. And that's 8 seconds for those of you who have yet to master the art of math.

 

Under the current system, 2 stuns is the most you will get. There is no "stun" that lasts for more than 4 seconds. Only "sleep/blind" type of effects last longer, and these break on damage. Hence, the longest you will be pounded by attacks while effected by stun, is 8 seconds.

 

Sleep breaks on damage, and the classic stun/immob + sleep(flashbangs and sort) is nothing more than an escape move.

 

Stock up on some brains and experience, before throwing claims about PvP.

Edited March 11, 2012 by Meluna
language

[indelible]

I was crossing the void bridge and knew this safe was going to try and knock me off. Before I could drop into cover and throw my anti-cc ability down, someone force leaped and knocked me back but I didn't fall off. Now I'm rooted and can't drop into cover to hit Hunker. Then the Sorc hit his knock back and into the pit I go. There was literally nothing I could do.

 

So you got caught in a bad situation against 2 players? That happens to everyone, even the best of us.

 

At this point I get the distinct impression people have an issue with not being able to 1 v X, where X is any number of players from 1 to 8, rather than having any inherent problem with Resolve.

 

90% of you don't understand. How can you have a problem with something you don't understand?

[ImSaved]

You people should stop using straw man arguments, you should stop throwing ad hominum at me like it validates your argument.

 

I gave you a break down of how Resolve works, demonstrating how all of these fantastical situations you all describe just can't happen because they mechanics don't allow it.

 

And I respect your position enough to allow you to provide actual evidence of it working any other way, actual evidence of these fantastical situations you all describe happening.

 

But you don't do that. Why? Why aren't you doing that? It's a reasonable thing to do in your position.... and if it is true I won't be able to argue against it and you'll have someone else to "fight the good fight" against evil Bioware.

 

I never demonstrated a "fantastical" situation. I said you can be stun-locked for 8 seconds, which you can, and that roots bypass resolve, which they do. And as I stated before, I don't consider the system to be "broken," I consider it inferior to the Dimishing Returns system implemented in similar games.

 

If you genuinely believe that roots and high percentage snares shouldn't be affected by resolve than that's your opinion. I disagree.

[Renifizzle]

Ahem. I'm a Gunslinger and snares may as well be a CC for us. If we're rooted we can't drop into cover which means its a free 4 secs of a beat down. We have no defense abilities or decent offense ones out of cover. Also I have seen on many occasions enemies with no resolve or purple resolve not being knocked back by Pulse Detonator.

 

I was crossing the void bridge and knew this safe was going to try and knock me off. Before I could drop into cover and throw my anti-cc ability down, someone force leaped and knocked me back but I didn't fall off. Now I'm rooted and can't drop into cover to hit Hunker. Then the Sorc hit his knock back and into the pit I go. There was literally nothing I could do.

 

Broken Ford Pinto > Resolve

 

Can't you use deployable cover or just crouch for cover behind no cover?

 

You can still use all your offensive abilities but yes your defense goes down.

 

I think gunslingers have somewhat of a luxury being immune to leaps/pulls behind cover tbh.

[GRINnBARRETT]

The general problem as I see it, is that resolve still allows you to be rooted/snared all day long (or the 2 seconds it would have taken you to get through that fire pit).

 

Roots/snares are a form of cc that isn't calculated into resolve. Each class is given at least one 2 min "trinket" to negate cc. If BW was to add immunity from cc (including roots/snares) to the trinket for x seconds after it was used, then it would probably fix the issue.

 

TLDR: Having a full resolve bar & still being subjected to being rooted in a fire pit = broken resolve system.

[Trauglodyte]

I won't say that it is broken because it is working as properly intended. If you want to talk about broken in SWTOR, let's talk about how tab targetting is the biggest fail of all time.

 

Regarding Resolve, I think what bothers people is in a game where everyone's CC is on a 60s cool down (or shorter), having a system that doesn't aptly prevent CC doens't work in conjunction with low HP totals. Simply put, you cannot live through a massive CC chain. So, while you can say that Resolve protects your right to act, not your right to move. It does not actually do that either because there aren't enough survival cool downs, or equally effective survival cool downs, to allow you to act while Resolve in activated.

 

Nobody lies getting steam rolled, nobody likes getting chain CCed. What we're facing is a system in which you have both at the same time.

[Tilure]

DR is a much worse system. Rift used DR and in my opinion was much worse then the resolve system.

 

Resolve is predictable and another aspect of combat you need to manage. If you don't like the resolve system, it tells me you don't understand it. If you find yourself popping your trinket before your resolve bar is white(unless you do , and you did it for a good reason, for example popping it on a marauder after he blew his aoe stun), then you don't understand resolve. If your resolve bar isn't white and you are stunned and you die before you come out of the stun, then you were being attacked by multiple opponents and therefore it is completely legitimate that they can kill you within the stun time frame.

 

I'd much rather be knocked around like a pinball then combat be just a dps race.

 

I feel like people who complain about resolve really just want to be able to do one of the following.

 

a) mash buttons constantly without ever being attacked, stunned , rooted, snared or otherwise effected by other players.

b) always be able to escape any other player if they are attacked and return to their mindless mashing once the enemy has been distracted by a new target.

c)believe that combat should be a choreographed experience in which they never lose but achieve the illusion of a challenge with a guaranteed success at the end.

[Amulay]

I never demonstrated a "fantastical" situation. I said you can be stun-locked for 8 seconds, which you can, and that roots bypass resolve, which they do. And as I stated before, I don't consider the system to be "broken," I consider it inferior to the Dimishing Returns system implemented in similar games.

 

If you genuinely believe that roots and high percentage snares shouldn't be affected by resolve than that's your opinion. I disagree.

 

Where's your CC break for the second one that MAXES YOUR RESOLVE?

 

You're not using it when you don't have maxed resolve, are you?

[Renifizzle]

If you notice that resolve "doesn't work when it should" then fraps it for us and post it, otherwise in absence of concrete evidence it is working perfectly, as many educated players can attest to.

[ImSaved]

Not as clueless as the way you are (obvioulsy) using your Ops/Scoundy, considering the fact that seasoned stealth class players have no problems in finishing the fight they started.

 

Basically, the "Way of the Stealth" is: (1) Only commit to a fight which you can finish/survive on top of; (2) If not, run away to find another prey.

 

Why do you think they gave you invisibility in the first place?

 

 

 

 

Countless is the number of hair on my arse.

 

Every "escape move" a sorc/sage wields can be easily countered with elementary level tactics for every melee (except Ops/Scoundies, which shouldn't be engaging sorc/sages in an open field of fire anyway), and vice versa for the sorc/sage.

 

It's a mind game of who uses/opens up with which skill and who counters it with how, and many, many, many Guardians, Juggernauts, Marauders and Sentinels have no problems whatsoever in indulging in that game.

 

If anything, the majority of sorc/sage players are pretty much sucky and predictable, hence almost never, would I find a sorc/sage that can get away - not counting the situation where there's a speed boost nearby or someone hastily comes to its aid.

 

 

TL/DR; "Only sucky melee players have problems in catching up with sorc/sages"

 

 

 

 

Under the current system, 2 stuns is the most you will get. There is no "stun" that lasts for more than 4 seconds. Only "sleep/blind" type of effects last longer, and these break on damage. Hence, the longest you will be pounded by attacks while effected by stun, is 8 seconds.

 

Sleep breaks on damage, and the classic stun/immob + sleep(flashbangs and sort) is nothing more than an escape move.

 

Stock up on some brains and experience, before throwingclaims about PvP.

 

http://tinypic.com/r/fb03g2/5

 

Continue telling me how to play my class.

 

Seriously though, It's not difficult to do well as a Scoundrel. But it is difficult to be productive in GROUP play, which is what this entire game is based on. Telling me to avoid targets I can't beat 1 v 1, do you not understand how ridiculous that sounds? 1 v 1 scenarios rarely happen in competitive play, and CC in this game, if used appropriately, can completely cripple a melee character. Which is not the case for most ranged builds.

 

Now, in Alderaan, maybe this won't make any difference. But in Huttball (the Warzone I'm in 90% of the time) it is a game-changer, and is heavily biased towards ranged classes.

 

That's what I'm saying.

Edited March 11, 2012 by Meluna

[AKfourtyseven]

 

Simply put, you cannot live through a massive CC chain. So, while you can say that Resolve protects your right to act, not your right to move. It does not actually do that either because there aren't enough survival cool downs, or equally effective survival cool downs, to allow you to act while Resolve in activated.

 

Playing a Jugg has taught me alot about resolve. If and only if you can actually live long enough for the bar to fill, it suddenly becomes a great system, giving you temporary immunity and impunity with which to slap around your foe. Most classes will not ever live long enough for that bar to fill outside of a 1v1 and 1v1s in PvP are rare.

 

The only thing im really not sure about with regards to resolve are pulls. I have been pulled by Shadows and it seems that bypasses resolve somehow. Im uneducated on how that move works with regards to resolve numbers however, so i cant speak on it more than that.

Edited March 11, 2012 by AKfourtyseven

[Jesmcalli]

So you got caught in a bad situation against 2 players? That happens to everyone, even the best of us.

 

At this point I get the distinct impression people have an issue with not being able to 1 v X, where X is any number of players from 1 to 8, rather than having any inherent problem with Resolve.

 

90% of you don't understand. How can you have a problem with something you don't understand?

 

What I don't think you understand is that, in a melee's case, oftentimes you're pitted in a 1vX scenario no matter what you do. You can't stuff yourself in a corner, or on a perch and maintain oversight on an objective. By merely being within 30 yards of ranged, you're threatened. The same cannot be said of a ranged class. This is when resolve and multiple CC's becomes an issue.

[ImSaved]

Where's your CC break for the second one that MAXES YOUR RESOLVE?

 

You're not using it when you don't have maxed resolve, are you?

 

CC break is on a CD. I know you want it to be the answer to everything, unfortunately it's not. Being able to break a stun once every two minutes isn't a reliable way of combating the Resolve system. Sorry.

[indelible]

Except it doesn't always work. Just because you haven't seen a CC with a full bar, when countless posts have attested to that very thing, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Insulting people because they're experiencing things you haven't doesn't make you more right.

 

NO one that has made those posts has provided any evidence to back them up. Not a single one. You haven't, no one else in this thread has and no one on this forum has. I've asked you to do so and I've given you the chance to do so but you've flatly refused to do it.

 

When a person makes a claim, cannot back up that claim and refuses to demonstrate that claim with evidence, it is best to question the person and the claim, especially when they are given the chance to do so with open arms.

 

I've demonstrated my point using the games actual mechanics and specifying actual situations where it happens. You are arguing that it doesn't work the way the mechanics say it should work, and you should demonstrate that.

 

If you can't or won't, no one is going to believe you.

 

And just because X number of people make X claim does not mean X is true either. There are countless social studies and experiments demonstrating this very truth.

[indelible]

Playing a Jugg has taught me alot about resolve. If and only if you can actually live long enough for the bar to fill, it suddenly becomes a great system, giving you you temporary immunity and impunity with which to slap around your foe. Most classes will not ever live long enough for that bar to fill outside of a 1v1 and 1v1s in PvP are rare.

 

That is untrue. It takes 2 instant cast stuns to fill the Resolve bar to 2000 Resolve.

 

On my Mara I spend most of my time with a full Resolve bar.

[GRINnBARRETT]

 

The only thing im really not sure about with regards to resolve are pulls. I have been pulled by Shadows and it seems that bypasses resolve somehow. Im uneducated on how that move works with regards to resolve numbers however, so i cant speak on it more than that.

 

Pulls are figured into resolve; you cannot pull someone with a full bar. Unless of course you hit a bug/hack.

[Jesmcalli]

NO one that has made those posts has provided any evidence to back them up. Not a single one. You haven't, no one else in this thread has and no one on this forum has. I've asked you to do so and I've given you the chance to do so but you've flatly refused to do it.

 

When a person makes a claim, cannot back up that claim and refuses to demonstrate that claim with evidence, it is best to question the person and the claim, especially when they are given the chance to do so with open arms.

 

I've demonstrated my point using the games actual mechanics and specifying actual situations where it happens. You are arguing that it doesn't work the way the mechanics say it should work, and you should demonstrate that.

 

If you can't or won't, no one is going to believe you.

 

And just because X number of people make X claim does not mean X is true either. There are countless social studies and experiments demonstrating this very truth.

 

Sorry, I don't fraps my games so I can prove to some random Sorc on the forums that resolve sucks. Not a matter of refusal. I'm pretty sure someone has posted something Youtube, if visual evidence is what you require. Oh, and as far that last part. Just because x number of people claim resolve is fine, doesn't make it true either.

[indelible]

Sorry, I don't fraps my games so I can prove to some random Sorc on the forums that resolve sucks. Not a matter of refusal. I'm pretty sure someone has posted something Youtube, if visual evidence is what you require. Oh, and as far that last part. Just because x number of people claim resolve is fine, doesn't make it true either.

 

Fair enough.

 

It's clear to me that you have no intention of bringing anything other than hot air to the table, so I cba trying to battle through your ineptitude to get the answers we need if we're likely to come to any concrete conclusions.

 

No wonder Bioware have said these forums - and the opinions expressed on them - mean nothing.

[charoi]

"Resolve is fine!" - Sorcerers.

[Amulay]

CC break is on a CD. I know you want it to be the answer to everything, unfortunately it's not. Being able to break a stun once every two minutes isn't a reliable way of combating the Resolve system. Sorry.

 

So you think that if 2 characters use a minute cooldown on you each, back to back, in a coordinated manner.... you should be able to stop it more often than every other?

 

 

You're SUPPOSED to have to deal with stuns!!!!!

Edited March 11, 2012 by Amulay

[Tilure]

http://tinypic.com/r/fb03g2/5

 

Continue telling me how to play my class.

 

Seriously though, It's not difficult to do well as a Scoundrel. But it is difficult to be productive in GROUP play, which is what this entire game is based on. Telling me to avoid targets I can't beat 1 v 1, do you not understand how ridiculous that sounds? 1 v 1 scenarios rarely happen in competitive play, and CC in this game, if used appropriately, can completely cripple a melee character. Which is not the case for most ranged builds.

 

Now, on Alderaan, maybe this won't make any difference. But on Huttball (the Warzone I'm in 90% of the time) it is a game-changer, and is heavily biased towards ranged classes.

 

That's what I'm saying.

 

I would disagree, in GROUP play its easy to be useful and effective as a scoundrel/operative.

 

Define group play. Is being able to score group play? Team work requires that both your team and yourself recognize the team composition and how each player can work within the constraints of that composition to achieve success.

 

If you aren't operating with premade, then you have absolutely no position from which to claim that operatives/scoundrels aren't well suited for GROUP play. They very much are. If you do operate in premades, then... I'm sorry I don't know what to tell you. Either your premade buddies don't recognize how they can work with you, or you don't recognize how you can work with them.

 

If you aren't operating as a premade, then yes it is very difficult if your team is bad for you to ALL by yourself make a difference in winning or losing the war front. But that is true of all the classes.

 

Arguable one of the best huttball runners is a marauder, and if you don't have at least 1 or 2 team mates working with you , it is still hard to run the ball yourself all in for a score. I love good operatives, they are a pleasure to work with.

 

Actually I think its absolute absurd that you suggest a scoundrel can't be a huge asset in hutball. Anecdotal evidence to follow.

 

Last week I was in a hutball with 3 operatives. One said at the start he would go cloak up on the enemy goal line. The other operative grabed the ball from the middle, he made it to the enemy pit where he was being accosted by 3 other players. He flashed banged them as I came up, they all used their break. I HS one, then flash bang the others, then root the one I hsed, the ball runner makes it close enough to throw the ball up to our cloaker who runs it in.

 

I remember another game where I and another operative scored 4 times. I cloaked on the upper ramp. He ran to the middle got the ball and came and passed it to me, rinse and repeat.

[rzrknight]

resolve is just poor design , it is not broken , it is working as intended , yet that does not mean it is a good system lol.

[indelible]

resolve is just poor design , it is not broken , it is working as intended , yet that does not mean it is a good system lol.

 

It's only a bad system because it puts CC control in the hands of the player, rather than down to chance.

 

If you don't like having to actually do stuff, I can see why you wouldn't like Resolve.

 

The only issue it has is the root/snare problem. That's it. Everything else, as I have demonstrated, is fine.

[Jesmcalli]

Fair enough.

 

It's clear to me that you have no intention of bringing anything other than hot air to the table, so I cba trying to battle through your ineptitude to get the answers we need if we're likely to come to any concrete conclusions.

 

No wonder Bioware have said these forums - and the opinions expressed on them - mean nothing.

 

Again, unnecessary attacks. Weren't you just pointing that out to someone else earlier on in this thread? Do you have visual proof of resolve working? Probably not, because most people ( if they are so inclined to record their gameplay) aren't frapsing to show how resolve works to random people on the forums. Even so, just because it happened to work at that moment for them, doesn't mean it will work like that all the time. I am willing to bet that most people that say " QQ moar noob, resolve is fine!" are the ones that either A. Are rarely affected by many of the low or no resolve building CCs or B. Have someone actively dispelling them anyways.

[kweassa]

http://tinypic.com/r/fb03g2/5

 

Continue telling me how to play my class.

 

I'd love to.

 

But unfortunately, a clandestine photograph of kills tells me nothing of the way you actually play one.

 

Seriously though, It's not difficult to do well as a Scoundrel. But it is difficult to be productive in GROUP play, which is what this entire game is based on. Telling me to avoid targets I can't beat 1 v 1, do you not understand how ridiculous that sounds?

 

Then if its a team game, what does it matter if you cannot avoid certain situations, when there are your teammates that can do the job?

 

 

1 v 1 scenarios rarely happen in competitive play, and CC in this game, if used appropriately, can completely cripple a melee character. Which is not the case for most ranged builds.

 

Every class has their CCs, (almost) every melees have their simple gap closers, and the CCs that do not effect resolve equally effect those ranged classes.

 

As a matter of fact, it is because that melees can spontaneously deal out snares to the ranged classes, that we can simply catch up with them.

 

You think putting resolve on snares is going to help melees catch ranged?

 

Keep on dreaming.

 

If anything that is going to totally cripple melees in the exact way you said.

 

 

Now, in Alderaan, maybe this won't make any difference. But in Huttball (the Warzone I'm in 90% of the time) it is a game-changer, and is heavily biased towards ranged classes.

 

That's what I'm saying.

 

Then that's a Huttball complaint, not a melee-range balance issue.

Edited March 11, 2012 by kweassa