Ewoktookmyspeedr Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I feel like this is the overall best spec that accomplishes all contingencies and maintains maximum and immediate uptime on our Dots. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#501bIrRrRzfGzZdMb.1 Inflammation is must have imo. This, however, does not preclude you from using leg slash. It just makes sure that you are not immediately losing ground on a fast thinking opponent. I would like some elaboration on why only one point into Jed Crusader is optimal. In my experience any RNG dynamic in pvp is bogus and will eventually bone you. But for the sake of compliance with the general consensus my build only includes one point in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psybin Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I am of the opinion that due to the 3s cooldown 2 points is a waste. In 3s, if someone is hitting you, you are probably going to get hit twice. Which gives you a 75% chance to get a free focus on average, if you have one point in there. So basically, if you go 2 points in then you are spending a talent point for a 25% increased chance to get a focus per 3s. Which makes the first point, more or less three times more valuable than the second one. So for me, that first point is worth it, but the second one is not. But then it's entirely up to you. Some people dont even go with the first point, going with the idea that they gain enough focus anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewoktookmyspeedr Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) I am of the opinion that due to the 3s cooldown 2 points is a waste. In 3s, if someone is hitting you, you are probably going to get hit twice. Which gives you a 75% chance to get a free focus on average, if you have one point in there. So basically, if you go 2 points in then you are spending a talent point for a 25% increased chance to get a focus per 3s. Which makes the first point, more or less three times more valuable than the second one. So for me, that first point is worth it, but the second one is not. But then it's entirely up to you. Some people dont even go with the first point, going with the idea that they gain enough focus anyway. I would think, that given the prerequisite conditions are met, that each attack that lands would be considered in a vacuum. Therefore, it is entirely possible with only one point, that you could not get focus from this talent ever, hence the RNG. Even given the perception of a diminished return on the second point, wouldn't it be better to have a guaranteed 1 focus every three seconds, than to have a 50% chance twice, to the same end or not at all? It's not 50% plus 50% of 50%. Its 50% per roll of the dice with an internal control on frequency. Edited March 12, 2012 by Ewoktookmyspeedr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DosPeros Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Thanks mate ! What skills should i use most as a watchman and how's the playstyle as a watchman ? Again Thanks you !!! Marauder is the analog of sentinel, I have almost the same spec as his as a sent with a few exceptions. http://www.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sentinel/18/?build=002303220210021202300230001003203200 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasymodeX Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Even given the perception of a diminished return on the second point, It's not perception. It's a fact. wouldn't it be better to have a guaranteed 1 focus every three seconds, than to have a 50% chance twice, to the same end or not at all? Of course it would be better. It would be 1/3rd better than the first point is better than no points. That's the point. In other words, the first point is three times more better than the second point is more better on average. Hence, why you invest 1/2. It's not 50% plus 50% of 50%. Its 50% per roll of the dice with an internal control on frequency. Oh, but it IS 50% + 50% of 50% if you assume a generic event of two hits within the "internal control on frequency" window. Because the first hit has a 50% chance to proc, and the second hit has a 50% chance to proc in the 50% of events where the first hit did NOT proc. Hence a combined 75% chance for either to proc, and a 25% to totally whiff. Why are we discussing high school statistics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewoktookmyspeedr Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) It's not perception. It's a fact. Of course it would be better. It would be 1/3rd better than the first point is better than no points. That's the point. In other words, the first point is three times more better than the second point is more better on average. Hence, why you invest 1/2. Oh, but it IS 50% + 50% of 50% if you assume a generic event of two hits within the "internal control on frequency" window. Because the first hit has a 50% chance to proc, and the second hit has a 50% chance to proc in the 50% of events where the first hit did NOT proc. Hence a combined 75% chance for either to proc, and a 25% to totally whiff. Why are we discussing high school statistics. Given the internal control on frequency, with the presence of a second point there is no second dice roll to check for another proc. Because there is no second dice roll, there is no diminished return to the second point. Your argument would be sound if the sum of the points did not preclude the failure of the talent to proc. It must proc every three seconds if two points are taken and the necessary event takes place. If the sum of the two percentages was for instance 90%, your perception would be valid. In this case, I don't think it applies. I will concede however that given the relative constraints of the number of optional points available, it could be determined to be of less value than perhaps some of the other points. I could also see, however, that another point from Dual Wield Mastery into Jedi Crusader might in fact yield greater dps in the long run since every 6 seconds there would be enough focus (assuming one focus is always pooled) for a "free" slash. In response to your quip about this being high school statistics. This is what theorycrafting exists to figure out. Don't come into a discussion forum to be a pedant, come into the forum to discuss mechanics and Theory. Edited March 13, 2012 by Ewoktookmyspeedr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal-Sharran Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Check my sig. Any questions you have about it ask and i will help explain. Dual Wield Master increases your Strike, Zealous Strike, Slash, Merc Slash, Cyclone Slash, Leg Slash and Master Strike, off the top of my head. So, virtually every single ability you use on a regular basis in PvE and PvP, other than Cauterize and Dispatch. So yes, 3 points is vital for maximizing dps. How you could even contemplate 1/3, 2/3 or 0/3 is beyond me. Inflammation is purely style/preference based. It applies a very weak slow, one hit faster in your 'rotation' than if you used Leg Slash. Leap, OS, Zealous, Cauterize, Leg Slash (which is more powerful, lasts longer, and applies a stack of OS like anything else). I personally skip it and I do just fine. Once again, it's preference. Also, if you fail to refresh Cauterize, you'll end up using Leg Slash anyway. Skipping Focused Pursuit or Force Fade, or BOTH, is ludicrous for PvP (for PvE you at least need Force Fade). Focused Pursuit is definitely in the category of 'personal preference', but for reaching the ball first in Huttball (or scoring a touchdown), reaching a turret first in Alderaan, nothing is better. And what's more, you don't reach it alone, you reach it with half your OPs group as well, since it's team wide (not OPs wide, sadly). Force Fade is virtually indispensable for both PvE and PvP. You also grab a 2% Force crit bonus with Insight/Malice...tell me, beyond our dots, which I THINK may be influenced by force crit chance, what else does a Watchman do with the force? Stasis? That's about it. Everything else we do is weapon damage. This point is wasted. 30% damage reduction from AoE is wasted in PvE and almost as useless in PvP. The only scary AoE in PvP comes from Guard/Jug, beyond that it's all incidental. You will die, 9 times out of 10, from direct damage in PvP than from indirect. Get it if you want, it isn't 'wrong', but there are much better ways to spend two points. Jedi Crusader/Cloak of Carnage is a must. At least 1 point (which I currently use). While it has a 3 second ICD, when you only have one point in it, every single source of damage potentially procs it. So if you're directly fighting one person, he has a chance to proc it with every attack, not to mention all the piddly AoE damage you take from people fighting around you. For such a focus starved spec, this is priceless. I currently can't afford Steadfast (3% accuracy) or Focused Leap (extra 1 Focus on Force Leap) but these are the only other places worth investing points. Going into the Focus tree is just wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soybombz Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) If your not maxing out Insight your wrong Edited March 14, 2012 by Soybombz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal-Sharran Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 If your not maxing out Insight your wrong Thanks for the laugh, you said that with a straight face, made it all the funnier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeLuvsBarb Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 If your not maxing out Insight your wrong Lol! Is this guy trolling? Thats the second post I've see him say that "you're wrong" or "I can't take you serious if you don't spec insight. Please nobody listen to this guy. Not trying to bash anyone, but there are so many other places to put your pts...def not insight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soybombz Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 6% crit is bad... keep spreading your useless information makes me look even nore superior on sentinel. Good thing about you guys is you delay our nerf with your horrible play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psybin Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 6% crit for 3 talent points, on only your burns which already have 40%+ crit on them anyway. And when zen is up a lot of the time it reduces the value of crit by tons. It's not a lot of bang per buck. You aren't a nub for taking it, but you are certainly a nub for telling people they have to take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal-Sharran Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 6% crit is bad... keep spreading your useless information makes me look even nore superior on sentinel. Good thing about you guys is you delay our nerf with your horrible play One word: Terribad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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