Wishlist for Addons and Macro support

[Emtro]

Ok, i know alot of people out there simply hate addons, think they are a form of cheating etc, etc.

But -try- put all that aside for a moment, and think about what we would like addons to be able to do in SWTOR.

 

 

If macros and addons were supported in SWTOR what should these be able to do, and more importantly what should they NOT be able to do?

 

 

I have written a few addons myself for WoW and i thought id make a list here from a programmers point of view.

 

Addons and macros should NOT:

• Be able to move the character around
  
• Be able to use character abilities automatically (think SWG and their infinite loop combat macros)
  
• Auto-queue for pvp.
  
• Auto accept invites, trades etc.
  
• Auto-queue crewskills.
  
• Search the Auction house or make purchases.
  

 

Addons and macros should be able to:

• Resize and move the UI around.
  
• Hook into various events ingame (chat, combat, skillgained, levelgained, etc)
  
• Ability to edit tooltips.
  
• Play sounds and flash warnings.
  
• Get access to combat-log data (think damage meters)
  
• Get access to character state data (coordinates, class, name, gender, equipent ,stance, list of buffs and debuffs, health, heat etc)
  
• Get access to state data for target/group members (health, class, name etc).
  

 

If nothing else; what features would you like to see added or tweaked to the default UI that isn't there now?

 

<rant>

Finally i hope that if they are adding addon support sometime in the future, that they will provide more support for developers compared to what Blizzard has done with WoW: no API listings, no documentation about whats changed between patches, nada, nothing. all the stuff you find online is reverse engineered by fans (it's like if Sun decided to release Java but with no documentation and simply said 'you figure it out', and then released patches every few months that -might- break your stuff).

</rant>

[brian_p]

signed also target of target please

[DuriZap]

Don't, just don't clone more WoW stuff please.

[DaxRendar]

Not needed, not wanted...

 

This is not the game you are looking for, move along

[Lamuse]

Only thing that needs to be done is the ability to customize the UI, not by adding things, but moving bars around, changing colors. Cosmetic changes onlyl

[PanikSpreder]

I'll never understand why people are so afraid of addons. I'd be more worried about the actual content going in a bad direction by the developers then the community making it so.

 

And if you are worried about GearScore/Damage Meters you are looking at it the wrong way. GearScore was a perfect way to avoid grouping with people who actually sucked by using it. And the damage addon did much more then just flex your epeen or give you a reason to bully others. Anyone who seriosly raids know what a great tool it is - for both tanks, healers and DPS.

 

Vote yes for addons, vote no for idiots with no clue.

[emmjay]

I don't understand the addon hate. It's silly to not have them, the game on it's own isn't perfect for everyone and addons can go a long way to allow further customization.

[Smashbrother]

If you don't like addons, don't use them. Why the hell does it matter if others get to use them?

[Midvinterblot]

Not allowing addons will kill a game. Look at rift, it was out FOREVER before they put addons into a beta format not available to the live game. Game died.

 

Now, im not comparing the two straight up but theres nothing wrong with damage meters or customization. As long as it doesn't venture into the territory of botting/hacking/exploiting there should be no reason for there not to be addons.

[emmjay]

I'll never understand why people are so afraid of addons. I'd be more worried about the actual content going in a bad direction by the developers then the community making it so.

 

And if you are worried about GearScore/Damage Meters you are looking at it the wrong way. GearScore was a perfect way to avoid grouping with people who actually sucked by using it. And the damage addon did much more then just flex your epeen or give you a reason to bully others. Anyone who seriosly raids know what a great tool it is - for both tanks, healers and DPS.

 

Vote yes for addons, vote no for idiots with no clue.

 

I have to agree, most of the addon hate comes from people who have had their feelings hurt in game. It's never anyone who has a clue, it's mostly keyboard turners, people with no key-bindings and terrible bars, and who don't understand the min/max concept.

[Lamuse]

I'll never understand why people are so afraid of addons. I'd be more worried about the actual content going in a bad direction by the developers then the community making it so.

 

And if you are worried about GearScore/Damage Meters you are looking at it the wrong way. GearScore was a perfect way to avoid grouping with people who actually sucked by using it. And the damage addon did much more then just flex your epeen or give you a reason to bully others. Anyone who seriosly raids know what a great tool it is - for both tanks, healers and DPS.

 

Vote yes for addons, vote no for idiots with no clue.

 

Gearscore was a way for people to stretch their epeen. It's possible that people was not in a guild that wanted to run 10 mans, the player didn't suck but because people wanted to say "you don't have a 5k gear score you can't come" but may have been one of the best players in the raid. Damage meters are the same exact thing. Neither need to be in this game.

 

I used addons in wow, but this game doesn't need them.

[Colobulous]

Ok, i know alot of people out there simply hate addons, think they are a form of cheating etc, etc. But -try- put all that aside for a moment, and think about what we would like addons to be able to do in SWTOR.

 

Help make the game better than it is.

 

That's an open-ended statement, but I think it covers the intent, so then we can work into the particulars.

 

Addons and macros should NOT:

• Auto accept invites, trades etc.
  

 

This is the one I don't entirely agree with, because I think declining should be an option, and there are a few things it might be conceivable to auto perform in these terms that are worth consideration.

 

OTOH, I think the whole trade system needs improvement, and that's not an add-on issue.

 

Addons and macros should be able to:

[*]Play sounds and flash warnings.

 

This is the one I think will get you into trouble, because it'll lead to a set of addons that may be considered somewhat detrimental.

 

If nothing else; what features would you like to see added or tweaked to the default UI that isn't there now?

 

I'd like to display my flasher icons as I want, where I want, the target, the target of target, a focus target, the party, and all of it, how I want. I'd like an inventory sorting tool. I'd like alt-tracking. I'd like lots of other things.

 

 

<quote]

Finally i hope that if they are adding addon support sometime in the future, that they will provide more support for developers compared to what Blizzard has done with WoW: no API listings, no documentation about whats changed between patches, nada, nothing. all the stuff you find online is reverse engineered by fans (it's like if Sun decided to release Java but with no documentation and simply said 'you figure it out', and then released patches every few months that -might- break your stuff).

 

This has not been my experience with their API, I've specifically noted them releasing patches and informing the community that things might break.

 

Not needed, not wanted...

 

This is not the game you are looking for, move along

 

Yes, the game is not needed, and without some serious improvements, it won't be wanted by a lot of people.

 

One hopes Bioware does wish to listen to their customers.

 

 

Gearscore was a way for people to stretch their epeen. It's possible that people was not in a guild that wanted to run 10 mans, the player didn't suck but because people wanted to say "you don't have a 5k gear score you can't come" but may have been one of the best players in the raid. Damage meters are the same exact thing. Neither need to be in this game.

 

I used addons in wow, but this game doesn't need them.

 

And yet you list only objections to two of them, but your objections are not based on the addons themselves, but the misuse by people who aren't using them properly.

 

Even if you were correct about your problems with the two given addons, if it were somewhat desirable to not allow them, it could be done, without depriving us of the benefits of the numerous other addons that provide features that have nothing to do with your objections already given.

 

But you aren't even correct with your complaints, because...they aren't the fault of the addons, but the people, and the people...they can, and will, still do everything you find objectionable. Watch somebody say "You can't come because you don't have the gear" without using an explicit or discrete gearscore addon. All they need is the ability to inspect others. Are you then going to argue against inspecting others? Do you really think that's viable?

 

Same with damage meters. Do you think people won't find ways to discern the performance of others? But without a meter, it'll be an inconvenient and time consuming process, so instead of encouraging a community embracing others, you'll be encouraging the formation of exclusive cliques instead of judging people on the actual merits of performance, since people will not want to make that much effort.

 

I really don't think the people who say "all addons are bad" when they have problems with just two particular examples of them are very perceptive in their concept of the situation, but it's even worse when their problems aren't even going to be resolved, but actually made worse.

Edited December 16, 2011 by Colobulous

[ReclusiveOne]

Addons and macros should NOT:

• Be able to move the character around
  
• Be able to use character abilities automatically (think SWG and their infinite loop combat macros)
  
• Auto-queue for pvp.
  
• Auto accept invites, trades etc.
  
• Auto-queue crewskills.
  
• Search the Auction house or make purchases.
  
• Hook into various events ingame (chat, combat, skillgained, levelgained, etc)
  
• Ability to edit tooltips.
  
• Play sounds and flash warnings.
  
• Get access to combat-log data (think damage meters)
  
• Get access to character state data (coordinates, class, name, gender, equipent ,stance, list of buffs and debuffs, health, heat etc)
  
• Get access to state data for target/group members (health, class, name etc).
  

 

Addons and macros should be able to:

• Resize and move the UI around.
  

 

Fixed it for you. Seriously, why play the game on easy mode by letting an add on do all the work for you?

 

If nothing else; what features would you like to see added or tweaked to the default UI that isn't there now?

 

An ability to skin the UI would be awesome -- think LOTRO.

[TeejayMac]

There really is no good reason not to support addons. I don't use many, but I do like being able to customize my action bars, raid frames, minimap, and chat box to my liking.

 

Addons have lead to many new features in WoW, some good, some not so good. Gearscore brought about the ilvl thing, powerauras brought the flashing proc indicators around your toon, things like gatherer brought more tracking to your minimap, dbm and big wigs brought about a lot more in game raid warnings.

 

Tracking popular addons that users are downloading is a very good way to see what your customers want and what you can be implementing into the in game system.

 

Like the OP said, as long as they aren't supporting any kind of "botting" there really shouldn't be any backlash.

[Yfelsung]

All I personally need are mouse-over target, focus target and target of target macros, and addons for my UI that allow me to move, resize and strip-down the UI (I don't need animations or portraits or junk like that on my UI, just clean borderless bars.)

[ReclusiveOne]

I'll never understand why people are so afraid of addons.

 

If you will never understand, then why call them "idiots with no clue?" Isn't it your own lack of vision and intelligence that is at fault here?

 

I'd be more worried about the actual content going in a bad direction by the developers then the community making it so.

 

Who cares who's fault bad content direction is? Bad content direction is bad content direction. If it is the community's fault, that is going to be a good thing????

 

Anyone who seriosly raids know what a great tool it is - for both tanks, healers and DPS.

 

Anyone who seriously raids knows how to do so without such add ons. Serious. If you can't complete content without add ons, that is your weakness. Do not project your weakness on others.

[Jederix]

Add-ons: Sure, go crazy with them, I really don't have an issue.

 

Macros: No thanks. You can push the buttons in sequence, you don't need the game to do it for you.

[Colobulous]

Fixed it for you. Seriously, why play the game on easy mode by letting an add on do all the work for you?

 

I'm sorry you think there's something involved in playing the game when it comes to tooltips, customizing the display of party frames, buffs/debuffs, and the like. There's not.

 

That's why people are quite happy to make such changes through addons.

 

An ability to skin the UI would be awesome -- think LOTRO.

 

Apparently, I prefer my addons to let me changemore thoroughly than you do.

 

You should think of something that does it better than just skin deep.

 

Anyone who seriously raids knows how to do so without such add ons. Serious. If you can't complete content without add ons, that is your weakness. Do not project your weakness on others.

 

Seems to me you're the one who is projecting, since you are confusing your pride with a strength. It's not. You don't even realize it's not about completing content, it's about comfort. Like changing a seat in a car, or the steering wheel, or the dashboard display, it doesn't mean you can't drive without the change, it means you want it to work better.

[Emtro]

hm... dear oh dear.

Didn't think there would be that much hate, nitpicking and namecalling.

 

All i really wanted was for people to list things they wanted addons to do and NOT to do.

 

Constructive thinking.

[Colobulous]

Add-ons: Sure, go crazy with them, I really don't have an issue.

 

Macros: No thanks. You can push the buttons in sequence, you don't need the game to do it for you.

 

Well, I don't think you recognize that macros don't always include such automatic play, but cover a diversity of things, including such tasks as repeating vent information.

 

Combined with them being available in hardware, and there's little reason to pretend you can effectively ban macros, but instead the best way to go is regulation.

 

hm... dear oh dear.

Didn't think there would be that much hate, nitpicking and namecalling.

 

All i really wanted was for people to list things they wanted addons to do and NOT to do.

 

Constructive thinking.

 

This is a hot button topic, and there was a thread polling on the subject earlier, and there were continued repetitive posts demanding an option to say "I don't want any addons" and you couldn't get a single person to listen to the concept of that not being part of the discussion in that thread, that there were plenty of threads for them to discuss their position on that subject, or even recognize that the developers had already decided to implement them in some form, so there was no point to arguing over it.

[Digimaul]

 

Addons and macros should NOT:

• Be able to move the character around
  
• Be able to use character abilities automatically (think SWG and their infinite loop combat macros)
  
• Auto-queue for pvp.
  
• Auto accept invites, trades etc.
  
• Auto-queue crewskills.
  
• Search the Auction house or make purchases.
  

 

Addons and macros should be able to:

• Resize and move the UI around.
  
• Hook into various events ingame (chat, combat, skillgained, levelgained, etc)
  
• Ability to edit tooltips.
  
• Play sounds and flash warnings.
  
• Get access to combat-log data (think damage meters)
  
• Get access to character state data (coordinates, class, name, gender, equipent ,stance, list of buffs and debuffs, health, heat etc)
  
• Get access to state data for target/group members (health, class, name etc).
  

 

 

UI Modification is #1 on my list. The default bar setup is... ugly and inefficient. I want to be able to resize, move, recolor, disconnect and extend data... move bars where I chose, have more slots, adjust what keys are bound where. Essentially I want Bartender and Xperl from WoW (and mappy).

 

Next would be anything which means data about the current fight is streamed smoothly. At end game this would include damage details, statistics on what abilities are doing what ratio of damage, threat monitoring... It is unfortunate that these things have a bad connotation, in that they are linked with elitists... I simply find them to be very useful in perfecting my own methods.

 

Really so far that's it. UI modification is the #1 priority though.

[Magnks]

LOL people already want to make an easy game easier... seriously? go back to WoW

[Jackjeebs]

NO

 

NO

 

NO

 

NO

 

NO

 

NO MACROS!

 

It puts a HUGE cap difference between those who want to use macros, and those won't don't want to, or don't know how to.

 

That's one of the main reasons I quit playing in WOW, bad pvp balance, and if you wanted to compete you literally NEEDED 50+ macros.

 

You wanna play the game? Then play the game the way it was created and meant to be played.

 

 

As far as add-ons I used them in WoW. To say that "you don't have to use them if you don't want to" is folly.

 

What do you think mr raid leader will say, in pug or guild when you don't have said addon? all of a sudden you HAVE TO have it if you want to play.

Edited December 16, 2011 by Jackjeebs

[DogFu]

I wrote a lot of add ons for WoW. My reason for disliking add ons is the impact it has on the game development - and I mean the content of the game.

 

I really noticed this in later WoW expansions. Early on you could do raids without add ons by simply paying attention to the environment ... don't stand in fire, etc.

 

Then, because it was "too hard" to see the big pool of fire your toon was standing in and notice that you were rapidly losing health, someone started writing "boss add ons"

 

In later expansions (IMO) Blizzard started assuming people would have these add ons and began getting lazy about emotes, visuals, and other clues such that having an add-on that could spoon feed you was required to be successful. I managed to avoid these until lich king but then, even I gave in.

 

I "get" that this real life tinkering is fun for a lot of people (myself included) and can allow you to customize your experience - which, if anything, is the reason it will happen in this game.

 

But personally, I would hope that the extent of this modification is more like EQ with "skins" and less like WoW with data parsers feeding you information so you don't have to look at the game itself.

 

And macros that have only a few lines of commands and can't react to some aspect of the game.

 

Just my $0.02

[kjeldsen]

Ok, i know alot of people out there simply hate addons, think they are a form of cheating etc, etc.

But -try- put all that aside for a moment, and think about what we would like addons to be able to do in SWTOR.

 

I played Addons for 6 years.. sorry i played WOW for 6 years. The single worst mistake that Blizzard made with WoW was addons (i can name more but lets not make this a 10 page long whine post

 

At first it was fun stuff, lots of added info, usefull stuff that just made some stuff a tad easier, mostly outside raids and groups. Then it all started, first time for me was decursive, this single addon made it so easy to kill the 1st (correct me if i am wrong) in Molton Core that it was a bit like cheating. But blizzard didn´t do anything against it.. soon we got agro meters.. blizzard did nothing.. when i quit the game we had fully fledged addons that more less made the encounters a combination of watching mods and acting accordingly to the warnings. Healers without grid? better get someone else..

Better top Recount on DPS or we will find someone else.. even though we are killing stuff..

 

Imho a big part of the endgame ended being played though addons instead of actually watching the real encounter and the real warnings.

 

Since everyone used addons, Blizzard ended up tuning encounters with addons in mind, how stupid is that. So addons became a needed part of any raids and keeping them up to date. And that was just raids.. the auction house was the same, if you didn´t use an addon you were cheating yourself. Crafting? better have an addon that kept track of mats, cooldowns etc...

 

Imho one of the things that destroyed the longevity of World of Warcraft was addons and mods, every addon that you added to game made you a bit more detached from the actual game world.

 

So please.. do not make them same stupid mistake as Blizzard did.. lets keep the game clear of addons and mods, and keep changes to the UI and even that at modest level..

 

/Kjeldsen - Ancient Warriors