Bioware does not support top-tier rated PVP

[SWImara]

Funny how hard people will scream against having skill based pvp. Ten bucks says these same people will praise GW2 for having no gear progression in their pvp.

 

Sorry you have to learn to play rather than relying on stats to get you through your matches, it's hard I know.

Its the law of the forums, making any sort of sense or having any consistent message is against the rules.

 

I still don't get it, why would a PVPer want better gear then others?

I don't see the point, especially when there is ranking involved.

It's way more rewarding and fun to kill players with equal gear.

Do they want a 90% 1vs1 win guarantee?

Why want a competition in the first place then?

 

Of course they say there is no REWARD for their top tier skill efforts, when they just mean GEAR.

 

REWARDS plenty enough, there are.

Agreed, I am all kinds of excited for the rated warzones system and really discouraged to see so many people raving about not being able to pwn via gear. No doubt this is the same crew that raved about how the gear climb into 50 was fine and it was always L2P issues that people were having. The same crew calling for the implementation of arena matches while claiming "arena doesn't have to offer better gear". PvP being introduced as just another thing to grind is a pretty terrible idea, but then in mainstream MMOs PvP is typically meaningless anyway.

 

Note: My gear is still terrible, and I do just fine in PvP, part of the problem is that everyone thinks they are supposed to be Rambo.

 

First...LOL at "pushing top tier players back to WOW". Playing WOW doesn't make you top tier - no one cares that you played WOW. Anyway.

 

Second - clickers/keyturners will have the same gear as me and I'll still stomp them without them being able to say the gear is what mattered (because it won't). Working as intended.

Christ am I glad to read this, seriously! I wonder at times what on earth WoW did to the PvP crowd.

[Bazzoong]

Obviously that's not the case as I dont need better gear to beat anyone else on my server 4 man vs 4 man with 4 fail pugs. The point is there is no reward for being high ranked. NONE. Do you understand this text? That means, bioware wants every1 to do ranked warzones get the same gear, yet have a "number on my character pane" that reflects. That's not something to look forward to. Understand? Casual's wont get this message, but people who strive for top on this game get shafted at the end of the day.

 

I farm for high rating only to get nothing. Good logic.

 

I suggest you do what you "threatened" in your first post: go back to wow, why did you come here anyway, did the shammy that carried you quit?

 

Please leave, everybody will be happier, yourself included.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Bazzoong

[Magdain]

I don't think you get it.. WE ALREADY PUT THE TIME AND EFFORT IN. If the game started out with easy to get pvp gear, then fine. Nobody would have spent ours grinding out valor and unassembled (****, the repeats) pieces, not to mention battle master coms that were also RNG. It's not fair that WE had to put so much time and effort in, while everyone forward gets to hit the easy button.

 

OH, and for the record I pugged 90% of my gear. It took a long time, and it was very frustrating at times. But I spend hours in warzones and in Ilum working out my gear set. IF they are going to give away the top tier gear now, then I want a full set of Rakata for my efforts.

 

This is what happens in every MMO ever. The entire point of an MMO is to have a persistent world that grows progressively larger. If you keep adding new content but you don't lower the investment to reach said content, then eventually you have a game where it would take years to have a viable character. If you have such a steep entry requirement, people stop trying to enter. Your pool of players never grows. Your game stagnates and dies.

 

When you play on the cutting edge of MMO achievement, you assume the risk of "wasting" time. Maybe you didn't know that when you started, but you know it now. Your choices are to keep playing because you enjoy the game, regardless of how much effort it takes to acquire things, or you quit the genre.

[Dissolution]

I still don't get it, why would a PVPer want better gear then others?

I don't see the point, especially when there is ranking involved.

It's way more rewarding and fun to kill players with equal gear.

Do they want a 90% 1vs1 win guarantee?

Why want a competition in the first place then?

 

Of course they say there is no REWARD for their top tier skill efforts, when they just mean GEAR.

 

REWARDS plenty enough, there are.

 

The reason is because if you have no progression or anything to work for you are stuck in a rinse and repeat wz mode. I only PVP. I want an alternate reason to be doing it. I could give 2 sh.t's about pve progression, i PVP and I want a goal outside of winning. That is the purpose of gear.

 

Also, as valor is gained, gear should upgrade. Minus the few who snatched ilum exploits if you reach 80, 90 or 100 valor i believe that you need to be granted a gear reward that differentiates you and yes, adds statistic upgrades. Just as you would for farming flashpoints and raids you need to have that reward in the future as a carrot to keep interested.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Dissolution

[Dagannoth]

If there are no rewards worth playing/grinding for other than a mount ( which i could care less about as i am usually just sitting in fleet waiting on queue) and/or pets ( *** are they good for anyway? ) I will lose interest in pvp and move to a new game.

 

There needs to be a tangible reward system for the pvp valor system. War hero, conqueror, warlord and elite warlord need to have valor level specific gear.

 

Yep, I bet your one of those premade WZ grinders that 4 targets players and calls themselfs "Elite Warlord`s" lol and when alone you backpedal all over the place // get interrupted and dont know *** to do when you can`t bash that one button. I got the gear and I dont give a ****, because games are ment to move on. Go back to WoW forums & demand your vanilla back...and cry the whole way pls.

 

P.S Stop sitting in fleet & go find something to kill from other planets if your so into pvp. I bet they don`t have the same gear lvl as you do. I find it funny and sad that the game has been out for few months and everyone is stretching in fleets and crying at forums about everything.

[Dissolution]

My god, do some of the people in here realize that you are in fact playing a video game? You're not a professional athlete, you press buttons in a sequence in order to make red bars get smaller. Stop trying to make it seems like you are accomplishing more then you are. It's petty and actually kinda creepy. Games are fun, play the game for that reason. You act like having the ability to turn your character faster or press your buttons harder is cause for some reward or recognition. It really doesn't and everytime a post is made like this, I really start to question the decisions in my life that has led me to somehow have chosen you as a member of my peer group.

A game. This really is just a videogame. Try and find your sense of accomplishment through something real and tangible. If a different color scheme on your equipment is what makes you feel like your milkshake is gonna bring all the boys to the bar, Bioware can't help you with that.

 

Inspiring. It IS just a videogame. One that I see quite a bit of potential in and posts like this are good because they bring to light issues that could possibly make it better. With every good post (not the bullsh.t posts that dont bring anything to the table) it forces me to look at an alternative solution to the incentives for a PVP progression system.

 

And as far as accomplishing something tangible and real.....well, i think i might make a kite. Thank you for helping me realize this ought to be done.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Dissolution

[Dissolution]

Yep, I bet your one of those premade WZ grinders that 4 targets players and calls themselfs "Elite Warlord`s" lol and when alone you backpedal all over the place // get interrupted and dont know *** to do when you can`t bash that one button. I got the gear and I dont give a ****, because games are ment to move on. Go back to WoW forums & demand your vanilla back...and cry the whole way pls.

 

P.S Stop sitting in fleet & go find something to kill from other planets if your so into pvp. I bet they don`t have the same gear lvl as you do. I find it funny and sad that the game has been out for few months and everyone is stretching in fleets and crying at forums about everything.

 

 

You bet, you know..you really dont know sh.it. Your post brings nothing constructive and I will play the game however I choose. I play PVP because I enjoy it. I post on this board because I would like to see BIOWARE succeed in how they move forward with it.

 

I bet you are one of those guys who talks lots of garbage in video games because you are a passive little pleaser in real life who would get their feelings and physical body hurt in the process if you tried it in real life.

 

See, now that last comment was useless and added nothing to the post just like your first one. Lets just avoid them and add constructive ideas.

[Arkerus]

You don't get the BEST gear for being the best. That's like giving the best engine to the winner of each race in indy car.

It would be stupid to give the winners the best gear. That just promotes the gap between those who have gear and those who don't.

 

However, they can give out:

 

Gear faster

Titles

Mounts

Pets

Different Color gear with same stats

Better looking gear with same stats

Edited March 9, 2012 by Arkerus

[dcgregorya]

I post on this board because I would like to see BIOWARE succeed in how they move forward with it.

 

Clearly your experience playing World of Warcraft entitles you to claim knowledge in this domain.

[Dissolution]

Clearly your experience playing World of Warcraft entitles you to claim knowledge in this domain.

 

My experience playing nearly every MMO since the release of the original Everquest would entitle me to that honor. Paying for a subscription allows me that honor. And, yes I did play WOW for a while. If you have hurt feelings over PVP in WOW take it up with Blizzard.

 

I'm here to talk about SWTOR and I am beginning to believe you are just here trolling.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Dissolution

[Vaipyr]

My experience playing nearly every MMO since the release of the original Everquest would entitle me to that honor.

No. No it wouldn't. Nothing entitles you to it.

[rzrknight]

You don't get the BEST gear for being the best. That's like giving the best engine to the winner of each race in indy car.

It would be stupid to give the winners the best gear. That just promotes the gap between those who have gear and those who don't.

 

However, they can give out:

 

Gear faster

Titles

Mounts

Pets

Different Color gear with same stats

Better looking gear with same stats

 

Which is stupid to anyone with a brain, why would you put effort for that stuff when it is so much simpler to lose fast and get the gear?Like many said this is not rl , getting the best on server title means pretty much nothing to nobody lol.

 

So putting effort to win is pointless.

[iceperson]

I know what y mean, after 11 arena seasons in wow, and 5 different classes I finally found the perfect fit for me (disc priest) and finally reached 2200 to unlock elite gear.

 

I love PvP and it's the only thing that kept me subscribing. I was so determined to reach high ratings for that gear that I kept re rolling practicing and playing, which kept me paying for a subscription. The determination to be rewarded for my efforts is what kept me playing.

 

And now that I finally did it, I wanna keep playing and get better.

 

Long story short, reward high caliber players is extremely important in an MMO cause the top players stay happy that they are part of their elite club, which seperates them from general population AND it keeps other players continuing to sub and try hard because they wanna reach that level of prestige to.

 

The current model bioware has is detrimental and is not making me pay beyond my free 30 days.

 

Hmm, so you kept rerolling until you found a fotm class that had on OP comp and facerolled to 2200.

 

http://www.arenastats.com/

 

Why anyone still tries to argue skill has a place in wow pvp with all the evidence making it clear that it's comp, not skill that wins matches is beyond me.

 

Oh, and OP, why are you so afraid of competitive pvp? Hmmm, I think I know...

Edited March 9, 2012 by iceperson

[iceperson]

The reason is because if you have no progression or anything to work for you are stuck in a rinse and repeat wz mode. I only PVP. I want an alternate reason to be doing it. I could give 2 sh.t's about pve progression, i PVP and I want a goal outside of winning. That is the purpose of gear.

 

Also, as valor is gained, gear should upgrade. Minus the few who snatched ilum exploits if you reach 80, 90 or 100 valor i believe that you need to be granted a gear reward that differentiates you and yes, adds statistic upgrades. Just as you would for farming flashpoints and raids you need to have that reward in the future as a carrot to keep interested.

 

I thought this thread was about rewarding skill. Valor and skill are completely unrelated and have been since release. Valor represents player skill about as much as /played does.

[Dissolution]

No. No it wouldn't. Nothing entitles you to it.

 

Dont get it twisted. I am not saying I know the the absolute correct approach to succeed in the PVP progression for the game. But everyone who plays is entitled to their opinion on this.

[rzrknight]

Hmm, so you kept rerolling until you found a fotm class that had on OP comp and facerolled to 2200.

 

http://www.arenastats.com/

 

Why anyone still tries to argue skill has a place in wow pvp with all the evidence making it clear that it's comp, not skill that wins matches is beyond me.

 

Oh, and OP, why are you so afraid of competitive pvp? Hmmm, I think I know...

 

Dont make me laugh , 90% of the casual have 0% of chance of winning my pre made lol, 9% got a chance , and maybe 1% is some godlike players that own very hard.

 

You guys thinking by even a second that people with gear fear you is rly funny

 

Now that is not he problem lol , i would not care if the progression has the same gap BM got from champ , which let me tell these bunch of wanna be , it is almost none IF not actually worse due to BW amazing skill on adding stats to gears.

 

The point is to have progression , not that the progression has to mean you can destroy the other team in a face roll.

[Paerin]

All I do in this game is PVP (a little PVE to rip out the enhancements). That being said the only reason I need to participate in ranked pvp is to see the little Rank #1 above my head.

 

People who PVP for the gear want nothing to do with challenge or competition. They want to be the best but they want to be that way because of some artificial advantage the game provides.

 

These people are pathetic and should not ever equate themselves to being "hardcore" anything.

[TheLastWolfman]

The reason is because if you have no progression or anything to work for you are stuck in a rinse and repeat wz mode. I only PVP. I want an alternate reason to be doing it. I could give 2 sh.t's about pve progression, i PVP and I want a goal outside of winning. That is the purpose of gear.

\snip.

 

Hi Dissolution, OP, et All,

 

Isn't winning in itself a goal worthy of consideration?

 

Surely the point of any game is to;

 

• Play and Enjoy
  
• Win when you can
  
• Learn from you loses
  
• Improve your personal skills
  

 

Why does there need to be anything beyond this?

 

As it happens there will be Ratings, Titles, Cosmetics and most importantly, Your name up in lights to share your sucesses with freinds and other players of this game.

 

Personally I can't wait for cross server and server online Ratings tables. The thrill of getting into the top 10,000 or 1000 or 100 (depending on your personal skill bracket), should surely be a much more sought after personal reward.

 

Gear progression (beyond a short warm up phase) should not be a factor in a PvP environment as it skews any kind of meaningful rating/ranking system and widens the gap between long term players and new starters.

 

The massive majority of sports and games that are played in the world are done so by amateurs. Their reward for a "rinse and repeat" activity is often nothing. For winning they may get medals, trophies, improvements in ranking / league / etc. As their skills improve, often by result of losing, they rise in the ranks, they may receive other cosmetic rewards (new kit, a better card table, etc).

 

None of them ever get a reward that makes them inherrently stronger, faster, taller, wiser, etc.

 

So why do some MMO (and other PvP games) players think it is an essential component ?

 

Regards

Wolf

[Arkerus]

Which is stupid to anyone with a brain, why would you put effort for that stuff when it is so much simpler to lose fast and get the gear?Like many said this is not rl , getting the best on server title means pretty much nothing to nobody lol.

 

So putting effort to win is pointless.

 

 

I guess you don't understand and you probably never will.

 

You get RANKED in PvP. That is your reward. How can you say a ranking is fair when you aren't on level ground? Losing does not get you gear faster. It doesn't in WoW and it won't in this game or any other.

 

Ranking is your reward. To be the best.

 

Giving the best gear to the best rank only furthers to destroy any competition and thats why people like you want the best gear to go to the best players.

 

Here are some facts you might enjoy:

 

1. As a better player you will already get gear faster.

2. Never, in any competition in real life, does the best competitor get any advantage in the next season. IN fact, the best players usually get the least in terms of benefits.

3. As the best player, there will be rewards for being ranked the best. You just don't get gear better than everyone else. You get "rewards" for being the best.

 

 

No matter how hard you try you can't beat this analogy:

 

Giving the PvP winners better gear than everyone else is like giving the winner of a car race the best engine for the next race.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Arkerus

[Dissolution]

I thought this thread was about rewarding skill. Valor and skill are completely unrelated and have been since release. Valor represents player skill about as much as /played does.

 

You are right. Top tier (skill) just gets lumped in with PVP gear progression in general in my mind. Appears to be a big push for no PVP gear progression for any reasons.

 

Winning Ranked PVP should grant PVP gear progression and Valor should grant PVP gear progression. Both with stat upgrades. However, not so much as to be an overpowering advantage. Champ to BM isnt overpowered imho, but it is enough to want to work for it.

 

I got off topic for a few posts and apologize for it.

[dcgregorya]

You are right. Top tier (skill) just gets lumped in with PVP gear progression in general in my mind. Appears to be a big push for no PVP gear progression for any reasons.

 

Winning Ranked PVP should grant PVP gear progression and Valor should grant PVP gear progression. Both with stat upgrades. However, not so much as to be an overpowering advantage. Champ to BM isnt overpowered imho, but it is enough to want to work for it.

 

I got off topic for a few posts and apologize for it.

 

I want shiny, shiny gear that is better than other peoples and makes me elite .

 

If you don't want to PVP don't PVP. I won't miss you and neither will most other people.

[Terrorshard]

My reward is when my opponents team poops their pants when they see they are facing my guild.

[Dissolution]

Hi Dissolution, OP, et All,

 

Isn't winning in itself a goal worthy of consideration?

 

Surely the point of any game is to;

 

• Play and Enjoy
  
• Win when you can
  
• Learn from you loses
  
• Improve your personal skills
  

 

Why does there need to be anything beyond this?

 

As it happens there will be Ratings, Titles, Cosmetics and most importantly, Your name up in lights to share your sucesses with freinds and other players of this game.

 

Personally I can't wait for cross server and server online Ratings tables. The thrill of getting into the top 10,000 or 1000 or 100 (depending on your personal skill bracket), should surely be a much more sought after personal reward.

 

Gear progression (beyond a short warm up phase) should not be a factor in a PvP environment as it skews any kind of meaningful rating/ranking system and widens the gap between long term players and new starters.

 

The massive majority of sports and games that are played in the world are done so by amateurs. Their reward for a "rinse and repeat" activity is often nothing. For winning they may get medals, trophies, improvements in ranking / league / etc. As their skills improve, often by result of losing, they rise in the ranks, they may receive other cosmetic rewards (new kit, a better card table, etc).

 

None of them ever get a reward that makes them inherrently stronger, faster, taller, wiser, etc.

 

So why do some MMO (and other PvP games) players think it is an essential component ?

 

Regards

Wolf

 

Some of these are great, but what has always addicted me to MMO's in general was the progress of the character building. As such gear is a primary way to do so. Again, there may be alternater solutions but if it is just cosmetic gear it would have to be really amazing for me to grind with no stat bonuses.

[Vaipyr]

Some of these are great, but what has always addicted me to MMO's in general was the progress of the character building. As such gear is a primary way to do so. Again, there may be alternater solutions but if it is just cosmetic gear it would have to be really amazing for me to grind with no stat bonuses.

 

Sad.

 

Especially " addicted me to MMO's"

[Richoshist]

2200 isn't a "top tier player" in WoW. 2800-3000 is top tier.

 

That said, the ranking is your measuring stick, not the gear. Why can't you people get it though your head?

 

And regarding the "qqqqqqqq we don't have 8man premades yet qqqqq" please, have a warm cup of esti effu. If you're really that good your 4-man will be able to carry the other 4 no matter who they are. If not, well then I guess you're not that good, are you?

 

"Elite players", lol.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Richoshist