DukSaber Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 OK, so this is my comparison. I have both lvl 50 bh and sorc. I raid with both. Both have no gear in the 120's (130's only or rakata). The bh does a little more rakata. I only pve. Fun Factor: Bh is more fun. If im bored I continually find myself logging the bh. You do more things as a bh, from topping people off with rapid shots to activating supercharge to keeping shell on the tank to saving people with healing/emergency combo. There is alot more going on. Sorc can still be fun but i see it as more of a chill type of fun. If i wanna relax a little more while i raid, then i would rather play a sorc. Healing: I honestly think people will be shocked if we ever got healing logs. My prediction of what those logs would show is that a bh and sorc heal for similier numbers of overall healing. If you factor in sorc overhealing, i think a good bh will heal more actual damage than a sorc. For me, there are less wipes and things are smoother when i play as BH. The only times that it is smoother when playing a sorc is when everyone in the group is in that zen state of mind and playing great. If people are avoiding everything, and the group is making very little mistakes a Sorc is pretty awesome i must say. /on the flipside, groups with mistakes, especially heavy damage mistakes id rather use a bh healer everytime. Sorc simply cannot recover from big mistakes like a BH can. The Healing scan/emergency scan is pretty powerful combo, 6-10k depending on crits and its fast. Add a supercharge in there and a bh can save even the biggest of mess ups. Utility: This obviously goes to the sorc,,there are numerous things here that make a sorc great but two of the biggest in my mind are the ability to shield others and the brez. Getting into nightmare especially or bosses like hardmode SOA, shielding is a big deal. I always have it up on someone. It really becomes part of your rotation. Comment on aoe: Sorc Aoe is great,,,hits 8 players, its also a hot. From looking at the numbers its around 4k-6k of healing per player, some of which is overhealing if there is no damage to heal. There is an activation time here and a long CD. Kolto missle on the other hand has no activation time but only hits 3 people (soon to be more in upcoming patches)/ The healing itself isnt the greatest,,average hits are 1000-1300,,,crits can go up to 2500. But if you factor in the buff it gives and the fact of no activation time, its really crucial to BH healing and more important than alot of people think. If you want a surefire test to see if your bh is any good? Watch how many kolto missles they use. Bosses are easier if your bh is always using this. Still not as great as the Aoe of a Sorc but its not as bad as people make it out to be. So thats about it, I think the utility of the sorc is great and they are also great in talented groups. If damage is really spread from adds/aoe whatever,,,sorc is also a great option. Bh on the other hand can be a healing machine, especially when kolto missle is utilized. Bh overall healing is much more than most people think. They can save raids and prevent wipes especially on new content or groups that will make more mistakes. Ill be playing both, for me i think ill be switching alot depending on the boss. Sometimes the utility or aoe (for spread out damage) is just too valuable, othertimes i will need the healing from bh to get through. have fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
germil Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) Utility + amazing AOE + great single target > great single target Of course kolto missile has its use, there is no comparison really, with sage aoe. Also I don't agree on the Kolto missile as a mesurment of BH (Commando) performance. Even if hits 3 targets which you would want to be healed (not always the case) the heal per ammo is not that great, it doesn't provide supercharge cell stack etc... 5% bonus is cool but that won't keep someone alive. Edited March 9, 2012 by germil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pathiss Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 We are vastly superior to sorcs in competitive play. No contest really. The reason is that a sorcerer is simple to lock down, requires guard against competent dps (even 1), AND is too much of a draw on that guard. Sure a sorc is better against random bad players in pug WZs..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yazule Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) We are vastly superior to sorcs in competitive play. No contest really. The reason is that a sorcerer is simple to lock down, requires guard against competent dps (even 1), AND is too much of a draw on that guard. Sure a sorc is better against random bad players in pug WZs..... you didnt even read his post did you... RAID HEALING not pvp healing nobody argues with BH heals is king of pvp healing Edited March 9, 2012 by Yazule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TempestasSilva Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 In general, I agree. I think BH vs Sorc is apples to apples. Its just one of the apples has been polished more and when you bite into it its a little juicier. The one part that I kind of have to disagree is this: Kolto missle on the other hand has no activation time but only hits 3 people (soon to be more in upcoming patches)/ The healing itself isnt the greatest,,average hits are 1000-1300,,,crits can go up to 2500. But if you factor in the buff it gives and the fact of no activation time, its really crucial to BH healing and more important than alot of people think. If you want a surefire test to see if your bh is any good? Watch how many kolto missles they use. Bosses are easier if your bh is always using this. Still not as great as the Aoe of a Sorc but its not as bad as people make it out to be. (Note the following is PVE only) Every week that I raid with KM makes me more and more irritated. Currently, I really only use it under these situations: 1) When I pop SCG as the buffs are sweet. 2) While running down the stairs on SOA so that at the stop point and bottom there is not as much to burst healing required. 3) At the bottom of the stairs on SOA when everyone needs a heal. 4) When running into position to stack on Annihilator missiles. If it was free heat like ES so we could use it more in a heat neutral rotation for the buff, it would be cool. If it had smart healing it would be cool. But as is it really sucks because when you need it most it tends to hit people that don't need it. So if we had combat logs and you looked at just KM you would see like 50%+ overheals. The coming buff will make KM better for flashpoints, but wont help in raids and will actually hurt if the nerf the amount healed to counter healing another target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukSaber Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 In general, I agree. I think BH vs Sorc is apples to apples. Its just one of the apples has been polished more and when you bite into it its a little juicier. The one part that I kind of have to disagree is this: (Note the following is PVE only) Every week that I raid with KM makes me more and more irritated. Currently, I really only use it under these situations: 1) When I pop SCG as the buffs are sweet. 2) While running down the stairs on SOA so that at the stop point and bottom there is not as much to burst healing required. 3) At the bottom of the stairs on SOA when everyone needs a heal. 4) When running into position to stack on Annihilator missiles. If it was free heat like ES so we could use it more in a heat neutral rotation for the buff, it would be cool. If it had smart healing it would be cool. But as is it really sucks because when you need it most it tends to hit people that don't need it. So if we had combat logs and you looked at just KM you would see like 50%+ overheals. The coming buff will make KM better for flashpoints, but wont help in raids and will actually hurt if the nerf the amount healed to counter healing another target. Use kolto missle more, you will see a difference. Remember no activation time, its instant. If its taking alot of time to use, then you are doing it wrong. It makes a huge difference especially in nightmare modes. The sorc aoe is great yaya,,but between the CD and the activation time Its not as great as alot are making it out to be. Especially in 8mans,,,generally you will not be hitting all 8 people all the time. You have some melee, some ranged, hopefully they are standing close but it doesnt work like that alot. You end up using it on melee. This is what i do with kolto missle. All the time, everytime its up. With the crits you would be surprised how much it can impact healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinsavz Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Just curious, where have you heard that kolto missile will be changed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukSaber Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 Just curious, where have you heard that kolto missile will be changed? Um ya i mentioned it in my post. The change will just close the gap between sorc and bh aoe and make kolto missle even more important to use whenever it is up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TempestasSilva Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) Just curious, where have you heard that kolto missile will be changed? No, he wanted to know where you heard it. I assume its from here: http://www.swtor.com/blog/community-qa-feb-17th-2012 We plan on improving the overall Area of Effect healing performance of the Mercenary/Commando in the next major Game Update (1.2) by increasing the number of targets affected by Kolto Missile/Kolto Bomb. More context: RuQu: Can you provide some details on Healer class design philosophy? Commando/Scoundrel AoE does not scale with group size due to player caps. Are they not intended to fill the raid-healer role? Scoundrels can be highly efficient, but have no tools for doing a short burst of healing. In short, what is the design intention for each of the healers, and is it intended for them to be balanced so that any possible combination is competitive in Operations, or is a certain mix expected? Georg Zoeller: Our stance is that all full healer specs should be viable for all type of content, which is the case, even for 16 man Operations. Our own players have no issues clearing any of the content in the game, on all difficulty levels, with any healer spec. Data from the Live game shows Operations, at all sizes, being successfully run with Commando and Scoundrel healers. It is expected for certain Operations bosses to create challenges for different healer archetypes (e.g. due to mobility requirements), but overall, every healer archetype is capable of successfully healing through any Operations and Flashpoint content in the game (currently and in the future). With regards to your question about Commando/Scoundrel Area of Effect healing not scaling to group size, please understand that no heal, on any class, scales with group size. The most powerful Area of Effect heals in the game (Salvation/Revivification) affects up to 8 players, but does not scale with group size. These abilities are very costly, have an activation time requirement and require the targets to stand in a localized area for ten seconds to receive the full benefit. We plan on improving the overall Area of Effect healing performance of the Mercenary/Commando in the next major Game Update (1.2) by increasing the number of targets affected by Kolto Missile/Kolto Bomb. As for Scoundrels having no tools for short burst healing, we don’t agree with that assessment. A scoundrel, for example, is capable of producing rather significant burst healing output by using Upper Hand gained from Underworld Medicine or Kolto Injection to trigger an instant Emergency Medpack or Surgical probe when needed. That said, we certainly think there’s room for improvements (and our upcoming Game Update 1.2 has a sizeable chunk of such improvements). For example, we are shifting the healing created by the Kolto Cloud ability to be front loaded in 1.2 to allow it to act as an emergency Area of Effect healing tool. Finally, the perception of a specific class being not desirable can also be affected by the desirability of other classes. For example, Sage/Inquisitor healers are currently able to exceed our intended healing performance at times by affecting multiple heals with the same Conveyance/Force Bending buff. Game Update 1.2 will remove the ability to do so. Edited March 9, 2012 by TempestasSilva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukSaber Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) No, he wanted to know where you heard it. I assume its from here: http://www.swtor.com/blog/community-qa-feb-17th-2012 More context: yep thats it. Personally i think it doesnt need a buff unless its to the amount of healing or maybe making it a smart heal (hitting 3 with least hp). From the comments and all the crying about the sorc aoe, it looks like they will make kolto missle hit 4 or 5 players. The people that are crying simply dont execute it correctly and often enough. Generally i spam it on melee during raids. Maybe a 4th person would help sometimes but totally depends on the construction of the group. Like i said above even the 8person heal in pve rarely will hit 8 people. If it hits 5 on a regular basis you are lucky as a sorc. Because kolto missle is instant with no activation time, hitting only 3 has been way overdramatized. You can use it more often and faster. Most dont and they are just wrong. If we get logs someday they will know. Edited March 9, 2012 by DukSaber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinsavz Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Thanks guys, was just wondering where you'd heard it cus I'd missed that. Personally I think kolto missile is great in pvp I use it a hell of a lot. (can't comment on pve) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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