Bags, gating and PvP

[DaedalusV]

I started playing SWToR a little over a month ago, very casual-like due to RL being of more importance to me than any games I play on my computer.

 

I don't have a lvl 50 main yet (as said, I play casually)

 

My main beef with the PvP system is the lack of options you got pre-lvl 50 concerning gear.

 

I had 1k Merc comms and a BM bag by lvl 20 (I play PvP on my main toon for leveling purposes and then rush my classquests whenever I outlevel a planet)

 

Since getting the bare minimum of stuff ready for lvl 50 (bag and merc comms) I started to look at what I can get outside those two steps for making ready to lvl 50 PvP.

 

I can't open bags with a valor requirement (due to valor being hardcapped pre-50)

I can't buy PvP stuff with valor reqs and I can't buy commendations with a valor req.

I can do NOTHING with the PvP rewards I get pre-50 that will help prepare for me dinging 50

 

Before valor gains were buffed I maxed out valor alot faster than leveling, thus I lost HUGE amounts of valor due to a design decision made to ARTIFICIALLY prolong the amount of time it takes to get the gear needed to play competatively.. After valor gains buff, I max my valor rank even faster.

 

The only thing I can use my WZ comms for /pre-50) is PvP weapons and a mixed blue/orange lvl 40 set (yeah lvl 20 set was bought, I will not throw my comms away at the lvl 40 set due to it having 0 expertise and absolutely NO advantage over stuff found on the GTM/bought through planet comms)

 

I understand the viewpoint some people might have; Get to lvl 50 dude, stop wanting stuff faster than anyone else, etc etc. But seriously... Why is it impossible to buy stuff pre-lvl 50 due to valor rank having a hardcap while not level 50... I just don't get it. Maybe because I never fell for the Skinner's box called WoW.

[Haldern]

Buy a level 46 weapon. Take the Expertise mod out. Rinse and repeat until you think you have enough. You can shove them in some level 50 gear to make being a new 50 less of a pain.

[Noctournys]

The number of people still ranting about this like it has any bearing on the future of the game is pretty funny.

 

The entire system is going out the window and being completely overhauled in 2-4 weeks.

[Lerdoc]

My main beef with the PvP system is the lack of options you got pre-lvl 50 concerning gear.

 

That is because of bolster system. It neglects gear until level 40+. Below that, for most classes you could just as well play naked and still do well.

 

And once you are 50 it takes 3 days to get 400 expertise.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Lerdoc

[DaedalusV]

I think you guys are misunderstanding my beef with this system..

(Oh and sound advice on the expertise enhancements.... BTW I already got 3 of those in my inventory, it is the ONLY worthwhile thing to spend your WZ commendations Pre-50, after getting your merc coms and BM bag.)

 

My beef isn't about hitting 50 and transistioning into PvP gear, that I am done preparing for and has been done preparing for for quite a while.

 

My beef is the HUGE amounts of Valor you can't use for anything due to your Valor rank being hardcapped at your char level, right until you ding 50.

 

I love pvp, but unfortunately, this game is based 100% on gear progression.

 

My gear progression is 100% artificially stopped and practically impossible to improve for 20 levels.

And/or 3-4 weeks+ (next game update/PvP revamp)

[DaedalusV]

The number of people still ranting about this like it has any bearing on the future of the game is pretty funny.

 

The entire system is going out the window and being completely overhauled in 2-4 weeks.

 

The entire system indirectly punishes me for PvP'ing extensively pre-lvl 50.

 

The bolster system in the 10-49 bracket makes equipment null and void during warzones (not counting the expertise you can get through PvP weapon ripping)

 

I can use 4800 Warzone Commendations to prepare for level 50 (1000/1000 merc/Wz comms + a BM bag)

 

Every single warzone commendation earned outside those 4800 comms are more or less a waste pre-50 due to

1) bolstering

2)Hardcapped valor

3) nothing viable can be bought and stashed for WZ comms pre-50 (arguably, you can buy PvP weapons en masse to get expertise enhancements, which I do untill I get one for each modable equip I can have, but I got a feeling I will reach that goal before dinging 50)

 

My main gripe really is the hardcapped valor. I am 100% halted from progressing towards a viable itemization due to a hardcap in my PvP ranking even though I spend all my time PvP'ing. It's counterintuitive that I can't use my valor for anything after 3-5 WZs cuz I dinged a lvl with maxed valor and it just takes a few WZs to cap for my next rank.

 

Arguably it is "unfair" that people who PvE will be able to grind out a PvP title so extremely easy that they won't really break a sweat from doing it, while someone who levels exclusively on PvP actually sees VAST amounts of valor go to waste due to a hardcap based on character level.

[Icysunx]

Your argument does not make any sense, put in the time like everyone else and hit 50. They capped the valor level so people would not be Battlemaster's or Warheros before even making to 50.

[Talizzar]

I don't get your post either.

 

Valor gets you BM gear at 50. Once you hit 50 you can equip Champ gear.

 

You valor will never be greater than your actual level until lvl 50.

 

Valor is being changed into a pretties stat where you can get speeders, titles and pretty colored crystals.

 

War Hero gear will require rated comms from rated WZ's.

 

I never knew the weapons had removable expertise mods below 50.

 

when you hit 50 you will get the two weekly and two daily quests where you can get 10 bags right off the bat and you should have a champ bag stored up. You get 70 champ comms from 10 bags and that will buy a chest piece or legs. You get 150 Cent comms from 10 bags and you can gear up with that pretty well in a very short time.

 

What I think you are really saying is you want to twink up an under 50 toon so you can pawn peeps.

[Loxion]

Your argument does not make any sense, put in the time like everyone else and hit 50. They capped the valor level so people would not be Battlemaster's or Warheros before even making to 50.

 

He is putting in the time, just doing it through PvP rather than PvE. You still get xp and still level doing only PvP. It was stated by Bioware that PvP only would be a viable levelling route, however as the OP says, there are additional hard caps in place that limit this option in some areas (Valor rank), ones that are not in place for someone that chooses to level primarily through PvE, or at least I am not aware of any hard caps on the PvE route.

 

I have an alt I am levelling through PvP also and am seeing the same thing. It isn't a major issue for me personally, however it is something that impacts people that choose to level through PvP rather than PvE, in that they have hard caps in place that limit their progression along the path they have chosen to take, there are no such hard caps for someone who levels primarily through PvE.

 

Why should Valor have a cap pre-level 50, you should be able to advance along that route from start to finish in the same way as someone can if they PvE.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Loxion

[KorinHyvek]

I see what you're saying. You're saying that once you've hit 1k WZ comms and 1k Merc comms, and bought a battlemaster bag (could have sworn only champion bags were purchasable, though. THink that's what you meant), you don't have anything to spend your WZ comms on, correct?

 

 

But what about WZ consumables? Those medpacs and adrenals are probably a good bit better than the stuff you make with biochem, I imagine. At least, they should be at your level.

 

As for valor being capped... Not sure why that is. But it's mostly cosmetic these days, isn't it?

Edited March 7, 2012 by KorinHyvek

[Slowin]

The OP has a great point. It literally makes no sense that your valor level cannot exceed your adventure level.

 

Can anyone come up with even ONE reason why this system is in place as is?

 

Why should you only be rewarded for pvp'ing at level 50 once you've pvp'd pre 50 a certain amount? It doesn't make sense. Even if the reward is a title, or cosmetic.. why artificially gate valor xp? It makes valor level less meaningful since its not truely reflective of the time someone has spent pvp'ing especially if they pvp'd all the way to 50!

[DaedalusV]

Your argument does not make any sense, put in the time like everyone else and hit 50. They capped the valor level so people would not be Battlemaster's or Warheros before even making to 50.

 

My argument makes sense from my point of view.

 

They capped the valor level so people would not be battlemasters or warheroes before even making it to level 50. <-- Is the argument that doesn't make any sense.

 

I genuinely like the relative chaos and unpredictability of PvP over PvE in this game (mainly due to alot of things very unrelated to this topic) If I spend all my time PvP'ing I put all my time into PvP. You're telling me I should put in the time to get to level 50. Well I already am. My beef is;

 

Why in the nine hells is the system rewarding huge amounts of valor? The only reason there is? To make it easier for non-PvP'ers to get a PvP title faster than pure PvPers. If I didn't cap my valor so extremely fast doing nothing but PvP, then I wouldn't be gutted everytime I saw 2k+ valor lost due to me doing what I love to do in this game.

 

Valor gains are riddiculously high, I don't see why I am locked out from progressing to at least Valor 50 when I solely PvP, so I actually got the advantage of spending my commendations on stuff that would give me an edge over someone who dings 50 on PvE content.

[Loxion]

Your argument does not make any sense, put in the time like everyone else and hit 50. They capped the valor level so people would not be Battlemaster's or Warheros before even making to 50.

 

Infact, having thought about it a bit more, your argument is more than flawed. With the current system where valor is capped pre 50, the OP will, infact, likely put in alot more time down their chosen progression route because a percentage of that time does not allow any progression, whereas in PvE you progress constantly during that time.

[DaedalusV]

I don't get your post either.

 

Valor gets you BM gear at 50. Once you hit 50 you can equip Champ gear.

Yep

 

You valor will never be greater than your actual level until lvl 50.

Is my main problem. I cap my valor very fast thus I effectively "loose" progression pre-50

 

Valor is being changed into a pretties stat where you can get speeders, titles and pretty colored crystals.

Yay, but besides the point. Point being the hard-cap on valor pre-50 being soooo easily acchieved

 

War Hero gear will require rated comms from rated WZ's.

I understand and I look forwards to playing those

I never knew the weapons had removable expertise mods below 50.

Don't tell too many, it's a secret BTW, look at the new lightsaber crystal vendors, they sell expertise crystals useable pre-50

 

when you hit 50 you will get the two weekly and two daily quests where you can get 10 bags right off the bat and you should have a champ bag stored up. You get 70 champ comms from 10 bags and that will buy a chest piece or legs. You get 150 Cent comms from 10 bags and you can gear up with that pretty well in a very short time.

I know all those facts.

What I think you are really saying is you want to twink up an under 50 toon so you can pawn peeps.

Nope, I am actually leveling my main through PvP, and rushing through class quests after outleveling the pve content (as described in OP) I can't wait to get to level 50 so I can progress towards my chosen item progression again.

 

I'm sorry if my points aren't very clear, english isn't my first language.

[DaedalusV]

I see what you're saying. You're saying that once you've hit 1k WZ comms and 1k Merc comms, and bought a battlemaster bag (could have sworn only champion bags were purchasable, though. THink that's what you meant), you don't have anything to spend your WZ comms on, correct?

Something along those lines yeah. It's getting troublesome to decide if I should buy another lvl 46 weapon for it's +25 expertise enhancement or cave in and start outfitting my companions with lvl 40 PvP gear

 

But what about WZ consumables? Those medpacs and adrenals are probably a good bit better than the stuff you make with biochem, I imagine. At least, they should be at your level.

I have 99 of each on my main. I could keep stocking up I suppose, but it's not really a priority compared to gear (due to gamemechanics)

As for valor being capped... Not sure why that is. But it's mostly cosmetic these days, isn't it?

 

The valor cap is what I can't wrap my head around either. I max my valor ages before leveling up, valor is 100% meaningless for a pure PvP player since it is a gating mechanism and not a measurement of anything at all. I can buy lvl 50 stuff fresh out of coruscant and prepare for endgame PvE, but I can't buy PvP stuff until I get 50 Valor (but I need level 50 to get that rank so it is impossible to get access to before level 50 even though you reach your valor cap much earlier than you level up)

 

I don't think it's unfair to PvE players that Valor cap is raised to rank 50 and to breach that cap, you need level 50 too (thus forcing PvP focused players to still grind 15 levels of valor before BM)

[OldSwab]

If you enjoy WZ so much that you consistently cap valor, you'll be happy to learn that you never cap XP. Keep doing WZ to level, or do something to level, and you'll be uncapped again (for six more WZ) in no time flat!

 

I suspect being valor capped might send a few more folks out to explore the noises they spent $99,000,000 on, versus the $999,994 they spent on snacks and the six dollars worth of ramen noodles they paid the intern to bolt on Ilum and WZ.

 

Ok, that was a bit snarky, and I completely made up those numbers.

 

edit: you can stock up on WZ heals and stims if you're looking for something to do with a thousand comms or so. i really don't understand the gripe about gear, though.

Edited March 7, 2012 by OldSwab

[DaedalusV]

Well, we're in a forum about a game's PvP, snarkiness is almost a prerequisite of posting, my thread's full of it since it's me being annoyed about something

 

The gear gripe may be very unrelated (I'm a Pre-CU vet, GW PvP'er, LoL support player) Gear based progression and themepark questing based on a pay to play business model is not my cup of tea. If I want gear progression and story I load up one of Bioware's SP titles or prepare for the monthly D&D session

 

Stocking up on Warzone adrenals and medkits....

Go do PvE

Keep doing Warzones

 

It doesn't really address the main issue. Valor cap and huge valor gains makes it pretty much 100% meaningless to devote your time to PvP over PvE, it's counter-productive even since you theoretically "loose" huge amounts of valor and thus indirectly gets punished for PvP'ing too much.

 

I would like to have a mechanic imposed on PvE that makes it so you can't get a new character level unless you have a Valor level at max 2 levels below your current character level....

 

Seems fair.

Edited March 7, 2012 by DaedalusV

[OldSwab]

It doesn't really address the main issue. Valor cap and huge valor gains makes it pretty much 100% meaningless to devote your time to PvP over PvE...

 

Not at all. You can click the little red icon and grab some 2500-4000xp per WZ, uncap your valor, and get more valor. If what you're really looking for is more valor, you got more valor per WZ in the patch. If what you're really looking for is to get the titles (etc.) you'll get them faster when you hit 50 by virtue of them awarding more valor per WZ.

 

The fact that you're getting a ton (between 2-7 times) more valor per WZ does not make WZ meaningless unless you were only doing them for valor. Between the comms and XP, it only makes them 33% meaningless, and if you find them 20% fun, then they're only 13% meaningless, to use your approximation

 

Compared to the 20% of the time we spend in 100% meaningless loading screens/elevators/ship trips between the space station and, say, tatooine that's pretty good.

 

As noted, valor is pretty much going away besides the fluff and titles, anyhow.

 

And lastly, if you still consider WZ meaningless, irrespective of the comms, xp, fun, challenge because they award you too much valor and you cap it too quickly, then you have reached a situation where you should find something less meaningless.

 

More meaningful. Er, you know what I mean.

 

P.S. I made up more numbers because you handed me an opportunity.

 

edit: i forgot to point out that queuing up a wz saves you the hassle of having to fly your ship around to various different cargo holds/orbital stations/dropships/chase manhattan interstallar bank loading screens/etc, and that's got to be worth at least 7% right there.

 

It's the metric system of meaningful. Just go with it.

Edited March 7, 2012 by OldSwab

[mdkmaster]

The number of people still ranting about this like it has any bearing on the future of the game is pretty funny.

 

The entire system is going out the window and being completely overhauled in 2-4 weeks.

 

I'm not real sure what to make of your post. On the face of your post you seem to be advocating people unsubbing the game. I mean, after all, you pretty much state that the game we bought, is not the one we will be playing...oh wait, devs confirmed that as well.

 

It would be nice it the devs actually made the game that we all thought we'd be playing, instead of throwing out interviews stating half the **** we see is only place holders. Doesn't that kind of indicate that this steaming pile of **** was released too soon? Why put stuff into the game as place holders which do not show the devs "original intent" for the product? Why is all this stuff being radically changed after the game's release, and purchase by the masses?

 

I'm guessing poor design decisions, inexperienced devs, over spending (on the biggest budget in history? Seriously?), and a very, very low understanding of mmos in general. Paying to play a game in which even the devs have confirmed a ton of this **** was not intended, does not make sense. They want to turn valor into a "prestige" system? Are you *********** kidding me? After all the exploits, and no roll backs on valor? Who the **** wants a prestige system which has been ***** and beaten before its been properly implemented?

 

The only entertainment i'm getting out of this game now, is watching the devs squirm in interviews. It becomes painfully obvious that they have no real concept of what they are doing, or what the players want. And even if the did understand what the players want, it's be a long shot if they could actually implement it properly (so far they've ****ed, pretty much everything they've patched, up beyond all recognition - amazing).

 

I personally love their retarded explaination on why high resolution textures are not feasible, when they seemed to work just fine in beta. Not that the high resolution textures are good by any means, but at least the game looked slightly less ******.

 

I could continue this rant but it won't matter, doesn't matter, **** even I don't really care.

Edited March 7, 2012 by mdkmaster

[Irishbrewed]

So valor rank has a cap now pre 50? That's stupid

[Noctournys]

So valor rank has a cap now pre 50? That's stupid

 

It always did.

[Noctournys]

I'm not real sure what to make of your post. On the face of your post you seem to be advocating people unsubbing the game. I mean, after all, you pretty much state that the game we bought, is not the one we will be playing...oh wait, devs confirmed that as well.

 

On the face of my post i seem to be saying "people freaking out over quick valor gain need to shut up because valor is meaningless come 1.2".

 

It would be nice it the devs actually made the game that we all thought we'd be playing, instead of throwing out interviews stating half the **** we see is only place holders. Doesn't that kind of indicate that this steaming pile of **** was released too soon? Why put stuff into the game as place holders which do not show the devs "original intent" for the product? Why is all this stuff being radically changed after the game's release, and purchase by the masses?

 

MMOs always change - and change drastically - after release. Look at WoW - the game isnt even recognizable to people who played at launch. After their new expansion it will pretty much be a completely different game than the one that launched. If you cant understand that MMOs evolve, constantly.. you're playing the wrong genre.

 

I'm guessing poor design decisions, inexperienced devs, over spending (on the biggest budget in history? Seriously?), and a very, very low understanding of mmos in general. Paying to play a game in which even the devs have confirmed a ton of this **** was not intended, does not make sense. They want to turn valor into a "prestige" system? Are you *********** kidding me? After all the exploits, and no roll backs on valor? Who the **** wants a prestige system which has been ***** and beaten before its been properly implemented?

 

"All the exploits!" - and yet despite this less than 10% of the characters out there are Battlemasters. Huh. Guess there werent that many exploits.

 

The only entertainment i'm getting out of this game now, is watching the devs squirm in interviews. It becomes painfully obvious that they have no real concept of what they are doing, or what the players want. And even if the did understand what the players want, it's be a long shot if they could actually implement it properly (so far they've ****ed, pretty much everything they've patched, up beyond all recognition - amazing).

 

I personally love their retarded explaination on why high resolution textures are not feasible, when they seemed to work just fine in beta. Not that the high resolution textures are good by any means, but at least the game looked slightly less ******.

 

I could continue this rant but it won't matter, doesn't matter, **** even I don't really care.

 

Since you didnt say anything of substance, back up anything with facts, or, well, do anything but spew regurgitate half-truths.. yeah. No one will miss you. Bye.

[Acyu]

you're not supposed to be able to farm lowbies to battlemaster.

 

They're FORCING you to participate in 50s WZ to get beyond 50V.

 

If there was no cap, I'd be battlemaster at level 20 with the current system.

 

This game focuses on story leveling, not mindless repeats of WZs to level.

[Dizzident]

This game focuses on story leveling, not mindless repeats of WZs to level.

 

No, the exciting bit of endless mindless repeats of WZs is kept for level 50 as endgame.

[Rocklexi]

BM gear is END game pvp gear. lvl 40's do not have access to columi or rakata gear, why should you have access to BM or champion gear pre 50? You cannot start acquiring any Tionese or Energized gear till after you have completed your class quest or hit 50...so why should you be able to start acquiring end game PVP gear pre 50?

 

He is putting in the time, just doing it through PvP rather than PvE. You still get xp and still level doing only PvP. It was stated by Bioware that PvP only would be a viable levelling route, however as the OP says, there are additional hard caps in place that limit this option in some areas (Valor rank), ones that are not in place for someone that chooses to level primarily through PvE, or at least I am not aware of any hard caps on the PvE route.

 

I have an alt I am levelling through PvP also and am seeing the same thing. It isn't a major issue for me personally, however it is something that impacts people that choose to level through PvP rather than PvE, in that they have hard caps in place that limit their progression along the path they have chosen to take, there are no such hard caps for someone who levels primarily through PvE.

 

Why should Valor have a cap pre-level 50, you should be able to advance along that route from start to finish in the same way as someone can if they PvE.