How BioWare is ruining Role Play...

[Raeln]

Because Bioware said, years ago, that this was an era where there were Jedi and Sith aplenty.

 

Yes, they are "aplenty" so much that they are being assigned mundane positions such as guards on orbital stations that see almost zero traffic.

 

I find it hilarious that my 8-man raid group had 5 Consulars and 1 Sentinel in it last week. Two shadows, 3 sages. The two non-Jedi was a gunnery commando (me) and a scoundrel.

 

Seems to me that playing a Jedi/Sith is a bit too attractive right now.

[Retro-]

Again were looking at the players and rather the whole story and universe, even if every player is a sith/jedi the universe is still grand and there are massive armies on each side of the conflict, there fore the numbers of jedi/sith are still small in comparison.

 

thats my view anyways and the fact is we don't really know how many jedi or sith were in this time period I would assume there would be many many masters on both sides being that force sensitives are everywhere.

 

Look at the sith for example, they only recently (as per the story) allowed slaves admitance into the sith academy for formal training, otherwise you had to belong to bloodlines etc.

 

I for one think the openess, the flexibility of this period give bioware great range of ideas to work with.

[Master-Nala]

Thank God I dont RP on Republic side...enjoy your sith pureblood jedis...thats gonna be really *********** awkward "I SLAIN OVER 100 JEDIS BUT NOW I AM ONE BECAUSE THE FORCE TOLD ME TO DO GOOD HHUUUUHRUHRUHRUHREUHREURHEU :B!"

 

You people are not role-players.

 

Master Jin Okono and his Padawan fought their way into the Sith Stronghold. Besting a Sith Lord, the Jedi prepared to leave the encampment and return to Tython. As they were leaving Master Okono's padawan felt a tinge of distress in the force. But it was unfocused, not angry or peaceful. But there was an innocence there. Investigating the Jedi found a newborn of the Sith race crying out for her mother. Realizing that the Sith Lord that they defeated was also this child's mother, Master Okono felt obligated to take this innocent into his protection.

 

Returning to Tython, the baby was raised as a Jedi. When the time was right, they were told about the Sith race and their connection to it. Powerful in the force since childhood, this baby leaves her home with Master Okono and heads to train as the Padawan of Master Yuon Parr.

[Retro-]

Yes, they are "aplenty" so much that they are being assigned mundane positions such as guards on orbital stations that see almost zero traffic.

 

I find it hilarious that my 8-man raid group had 5 Consulars and 1 Sentinel in it last week. Two shadows, 3 sages. The two non-Jedi was a gunnery commando (me) and a scoundrel.

 

Seems to me that playing a Jedi/Sith is a bit too attractive right now.

 

I hate to burst your bubble but Star Wars is about the Jedi/Sith the rest are fillers everyone is going to want to play those classes because that is what makes Star Wars.

 

People come here not to play troopers or smugglers, there are plenty of games that you can play those types of roles, but lightsabers and force powers....

[Raeln]

Again were looking at the players and rather the whole story and universe, even if every player is a sith/jedi the universe is still grand and there are massive armies on each side of the conflict, there fore the numbers of jedi/sith are still small in comparison.

 

thats my view anyways and the fact is we don't really know how many jedi or sith were in this time period I would assume there would be many many masters on both sides being that force sensitives are everywhere.

 

Look at the sith for example, they only recently (as per the story) allowed slaves admitance into the sith academy for formal training, otherwise you had to belong to bloodlines etc.

 

I for one think the openess, the flexibility of this period give bioware great range of ideas to work with.

 

If the mere thought of a few people rolling pureblood Sith troopers is game-breaking for some players - then why aren't they bothered by the overpopulation of Jedi/Sith in the playerbase as a whole?

 

I suppose a pureblood trooper is going to stand out like an eyesore in a crowd of 150 Jedi. What will really stand out is that it's a TROOPER standing in the middle of the crowd of Jedi, likely - no one will observe he's a pureblood because he'll probably have a helmet hiding his face.

 

I just find it ludicrous that this thread bounces up and down on the "lore" trampoline claiming that it's "game breaking" when they overlook the overpopulation of Jedi players versus other classes that should be more populous.

 

I got such a kick out of some of the NPC dialog when I leveled my Sage. There were literally dozens of lines revolving around, "Master Jedi, we never dreamed a Jedi would come help us, thank you, thank you, thank you, <beg, grovel, kiss the ring>". To that I really wanted to say, "oh, so you didn't notice those other Jedi standing right over there? you can't walk 5 feet without bumping into at least a couple dozen Jedi... but you're soooo surprised to see me here? How about those Jedi guards over there? they're 15 feet away and you've never seen a Jedi before? hrmmm..."

Edited March 12, 2012 by Raeln

[Retro-]

If the mere thought of a few people rolling pureblood Sith troopers is game-breaking for some players - then why aren't they bothered by the overpopulation of Jedi/Sith in the playerbase as a whole?

I suppose a pureblood trooper is going to stand out like an eyesore in a crowd of 150 Jedi. What will really stand out is that it's a TROOPER standing in the middle of the crowd of Jedi, likely - no one will observe he's a pureblood because he'll probably have a helmet hiding his face.

I just find it ludicrous that this thread bounces up and down on the "lore" trampoline claiming that it's "game breaking" when they overlook the overpopulation of Jedi players versus other classes that should be more populous. 

I got such a kick out of some of the NPC dialog when I leveled my Sage. There were literally dozens of lines revolving around, "Master Jedi, we never dreamed a Jedi would come help us, thank you, thank you, thank you, <beg, grovel, kiss the ring>". To that I really wanted to say, "oh, so you didn't notice those other Jedi standing right over there? you can't walk 5 feet without bumping into at least a couple dozen Jedi... but you're soooo surprised to see me here? How about those Jedi guards over there? there 15 feet away and you've never seen a Jedi before? hrmmm..." 

Thats terrible of you...to come up with an interesting, fun way to come up one of many ways a sith could be on the republic side....shame on you!

Edited March 12, 2012 by Retro-

[Raeln]

I hate to burst your bubble but Star Wars is about the Jedi/Sith the rest are fillers everyone is going to want to play those classes because that is what makes Star Wars.

 

People come here not to play troopers or smugglers, there are plenty of games that you can play those types of roles, but lightsabers and force powers....

 

Then how can you possibly take roleplay seriously in a gameworld where there are literally 5x times Jedi than any other class (at least at times)?

 

I fail to see how having a pureblood trooper scores higher on the "can't believe it" list than having 238378473 Jedi roaming around - being so plentiful that the Order assigns them mundane guardpost assignments on backwater orbital stations.

[Retro-]

Heres the thing, its a game, its an idea, its an open ended book on a period of time that has no rules or set perameters with a foundation based upon star wars lore.

[DarthRavnos]

Master Jin Okono and his Padawan fought their way into the Sith Stronghold. Besting a Sith Lord, the Jedi prepared to leave the encampment and return to Tython. As they were leaving Master Okono's padawan felt a tinge of distress in the force. But it was unfocused, not angry or peaceful. But there was an innocence there. Investigating the Jedi found a newborn of the Sith race crying out for her mother. Realizing that the Sith Lord that they defeated was also this child's mother, Master Okono felt obligated to take this innocent into his protection.

 

Returning to Tython, the baby was raised as a Jedi. When the time was right, they were told about the Sith race and their connection to it. Powerful in the force since childhood, this baby leaves her home with Master Okono and heads to train as the Padawan of Master Yuon Parr.

 

Every Sith Pureblood "Jedi" background story ends with a Sith child being abandoned at the Jedi temple's doorstep. I didn't realize the galaxy was chock full of child abandonment. Maybe someone will start a guild called <SIS Social Services>.

[Raeln]

If the mere thought of a few people rolling pureblood Sith troopers is game-breaking for some players - then why aren't they bothered by the overpopulation of Jedi/Sith in the playerbase as a whole?

I suppose a pureblood trooper is going to stand out like an eyesore in a crowd of 150 Jedi. What will really stand out is that it's a TROOPER standing in the middle of the crowd of Jedi, likely - no one will observe he's a pureblood because he'll probably have a helmet hiding his face.

I just find it ludicrous that this thread bounces up and down on the "lore" trampoline claiming that it's "game breaking" when they overlook the overpopulation of Jedi players versus other classes that should be more populous. 

I got such a kick out of some of the NPC dialog when I leveled my Sage. There were literally dozens of lines revolving around, "Master Jedi, we never dreamed a Jedi would come help us, thank you, thank you, thank you, <beg, grovel, kiss the ring>". To that I really wanted to say, "oh, so you didn't notice those other Jedi standing right over there? you can't walk 5 feet without bumping into at least a couple dozen Jedi... but you're soooo surprised to see me here? How about those Jedi guards over there? there 15 feet away and you've never seen a Jedi before? hrmmm..." 

Thats terrible of you...to come up with an interesting, fun way to come up one of many ways a sith could be on the republic side....shame on you!

 

Not sure why you wrapped my quote in a code tag but nonetheless...

 

If I had any intent on roleplaying a pureblood trooper, I would probably approach it from the angle that I did my best to hide the fact that I was a pureblood because of the massive amount of racism present in the galaxy as a whole. Basing this off of Elara's storyline, there is an incredible amount of distrust for Imperial defectors. That said, I would probably keep my helmet on (and use voice modification software) to hide the fact that I was a pureblood. Only close friends would "know" the truth.

[Raeln]

Heres the thing, its a game, its an idea, its an open ended book on a period of time that has no rules or set perameters with a foundation based upon star wars lore.

 

So are you saying that it's not really that big of a deal that players can end up with the option of having a pureblood Republic character?

[Raeln]

Every Sith Pureblood "Jedi" background story ends with a Sith child being abandoned at the Jedi temple's doorstep. I didn't realize the galaxy was chock full of child abandonment. Maybe someone will start a guild called <SIS Social Services>.

 

The use of "every" usually indicates a logical fallacy in the absence of proven fact.

 

Just sayin'.

[Darth_Slaine]

Wouldn't you want to see a reason? Your craving doesn't have to be as strong as mine but surely you would appreciate it if Bioware themselves stated why we are seeing this in the game all of a sudden (especially considering how strict they were about this in the beta. Why the change of heart? Could it be all the QQ on these forums?). That way people would have official lore to support their republic sith purebloods.

 

And I can already see your response, it will be something in the lines of "They don't have to", to avoid answering the question. All I'm asking is; would you not appreciate it? Yes or no? You already know my answer, I would love them for it, even if I would think that the lore they presented was bad. It shows that they care.

 

To answer your question -- No, I don't need or want an explanation of how a Republic Sith pureblood could come about. I just want to know the potential exists. I don't want Bioware to do my roleplaying for me or for them to develop my backstory. I don't want them to say "this is the route to Sith pureblood Jedi" because then self-appointed defenders of lore will decide that it is the only way to play a character.

 

If Bioware said, "this is the result of a toaster malfunction", and I wanted to RP that my Sith was the result of a waffle-iron malfunction then I would need to listen to all the lol bad RP not canon tho, dudes.... Just like you see in this thread from certain parties.

[DarthRavnos]

The use of "every" usually indicates a logical fallacy in the absence of proven fact.

 

Just sayin'.

 

I agree. Good thing I stated it the way that I did then since it isn't a logical fallacy in this case.

[Retro-]

my bad about the post, I was messing with the options and now I can't re-edit it.

 

I just think too many people are not thinking outside the box here and need to simply embrace the idea that this opens up countless potential roleplaying avenues for people.

 

Have orphaned children I think is simply one avenue to explain rationally how sith end up in the republic, also too we assume that all sith are evil, that is simply saying that a complete race of people are bad, which is an assumption.

 

That is like the classic star trek series, all klingons were evil there too.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Retro-

[Guildrum]

So are you saying that it's not really that big of a deal that players can end up with the option of having a pureblood Republic character?

 

Yes.

[DarthRavnos]

The use of "every" usually indicates a logical fallacy in the absence of proven fact.

 

Just sayin'.

 

Oh, and Fact...

[Raeln]

I agree. Good thing I stated it the way that I did then since it isn't a logical fallacy in this case.

 

It is very difficult to prove that "in all cases" something is fact, which is what "every" implies.

 

Proving that every day the sun rises in the east is quite possible due to physics and astronomy.

 

Proving that every pureblood Sith that belongs to the Republic side were abandoned at the Order's doorstep as orphans is going to be impossible.

 

You cannot quote one or a few examples and suddenly claim, "every", when the outcome is not binary. The sun cannot rise from the west, north, or south because the Earth cannot change it's rotation. You cannot prove that every pureblood Sith is an orphan. Someone can just as easily create a story where they are not.

[Master-Nala]

Every Sith Pureblood "Jedi" background story ends with a Sith child being abandoned at the Jedi temple's doorstep. I didn't realize the galaxy was chock full of child abandonment. Maybe someone will start a guild called <SIS Social Services>.

 

Lord Asa Bachan needed to hurry. If he and his family were to escape Dromund Kaas, they needed to rendezvous with the smuggler outside the capital city. Lord Bachan could feel his family's fear...truth to be told he still enjoyed the sensation of feeling other's fear. But he would not be deterred. He would not allow his children to suffer the life of a Sith acolyte or apprentice. Lord Bachan, no just Bachan now, would no not give his children over to the lies, treachery and pain that is the life of a Sith. He finds it strange that becoming a parent would stir these feelings within him. It's is a weakness to be sure, many Sith have children, and many have had to strike those children down for crimes real and imagined. But Bachan could never do that. The love for his twin babies have opened his eyes to the futility of the Sith way.

 

So he and his family would make their way to Corellia. The fiercely independent Corellians wouldn't exactly welcome his family, but they would allow him to live in peace.

 

Perhaps, his children would even study the force under the Jedi. While the thought was slightly sickening, Bachan realized that was years of indoctrination into the Sith Code. The Jedi defended peace. And hopefully his son and daughter would be able to thrive in that environment despite their race.

 

Learn2imagine.

[Retro-]

Btw, I always find it amusing that people feel that something created by a persons imagination somehow falls into the realm of laws or paradigms.

 

Its all fiction and if the creator says O.K. Then guess what its now a part of that creation.

 

Sit back and enjoy the ride.

[Raeln]

my bad about the post, I was messing with the options and now I can't re-edit it.

 

I just think too many people are not thinking outside the box here and need to simply embrace the idea that this opens up countless potential roleplaying avenues for people.

 

Have orphaned children I think is simply one avenue to explain rationally how sith end up in the republic, also too we assume that all sith are evil, that is simply saying that a complete race of people are bad, which is an assumption.

 

That is like the classic star trek series, all klingons were evil there too.

 

Pureblood Sith are almost universally bad or evil, compared to the majority of the galaxy. Their ideals typically lead to the destruction of someone else and in radical cases, the destruction of entire planets.

 

We could compare this to the Drow in RA Salvatore's books. Prior to Drizzt's character, there were no known defections from the Drow society - in fact, they killed anyone that for some reason would try to defect. Both sides would, honestly. Drizzt turned out to be the exception to the "every Drow" rule.

 

The same can be noted for pureblood Sith defecting to the Republic. Should it be rare? absolutely. They are raised from youth to despise all that the Republic stands for. Does this mean it's impossible for them to join the Republic?

 

No. Not at all. In my opinion, some of the best stories that I've read involve the character that is struggling between both sides and is why I enjoy the Drizzt story so much. It's not because he is some hero ranger but rather because of the mental battle he waged to leave what he knew for fact behind, to attempt to find what he hoped to exist - in other words, to find love rather than hate and lust.

 

I can see that as a common "story" reason for a pureblood Republic character. Yes, it will probably end up being cliche.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Raeln

[DarthRavnos]

It is very difficult to prove that "in all cases" something is fact, which is what "every" implies.

 

Proving that every day the sun rises in the east is quite possible due to physics and astronomy.

 

Proving that every pureblood Sith that belongs to the Republic side were abandoned at the Order's doorstep as orphans is going to be impossible.

 

You cannot quote one or a few examples and suddenly claim, "every", when the outcome is not binary. The sun cannot rise from the west, north, or south because the Earth cannot change it's rotation. You cannot prove that every pureblood Sith is an orphan. Someone can just as easily create a story where they are not.

 

A 5 x 10{to the 14th power} megaton explosion would reverse the earth's rotation.

 

Just sayin'

[Kharnis]

Every Sith Pureblood "Jedi" background story ends with a Sith child being abandoned at the Jedi temple's doorstep. I didn't realize the galaxy was chock full of child abandonment. Maybe someone will start a guild called <SIS Social Services>.

 

Seriously. Play the Jedi Knight class story. It might do you some good to actually expand your perspective on what happens in the "lore." Of course, doing so might completely disrupt your "Bioware is ruining my immersion" argument, but that's the risk you'll have to take.

[Majspuffen]

To answer your question -- No, I don't need or want an explanation of how a Republic Sith pureblood could come about.

 

I didn't ask if you wanted it, I asked if you would appreciate it--if they presented one. But I'm guessing no here as well.

 

Like some poster said a few pages back, a character with the most common and used background could be a much more interesting character than one that has got a super-special background.

 

It is your character's character that makes him or her unique, not his spazzed out background. Which is why I personally frown upon over-exaggerated backgrounds. Which is why I would rather see a race-restriction, or see a story presented by bioware that could explain why we are seeing somethings all of a sudden.

 

There, we have different opinions. Let's just agree to disagree.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Majspuffen

[Guildrum]

I didn't ask if you wanted it, I asked if you would appreciate it--if they presented one. But I'm guessing no here as well.

 

Like some poster said a few pages back, a character with the most common and used background could be a much more interesting character than one that has got a super-special background.

 

It is your character's character that makes him or her unique, not his spazzed out background. Which is why I personally frown upon over-exaggerated backgrounds. Which is why I would rather see a race-restriction, or see a story presented by bioware that could explain why we are seeing somethings all of a sudden.

 

There, we have different opinions. Let's just agree to disagree.

 

Yet the backstory is what is going to define the character for the most part.

 

Okay, so we have Smuggler A and Smuggler B.

 

Smuggler A is the son/daughter of a wealthy family on Alderaan, early in his/her life however, he/she grew bored of a such a pampered, sheltered life and abandoned it all, seeking fame and glory as a hotshot freighter captain, thought he/she is still learning the ropes.

 

As a result, I would guess that Smuggler A is somewhat naive in terms of what Smugglers do on a regular basis, and probably isn't going to quite fully grasp that Smugglers can't afford the "expensive wine". Depending on the family he/she grew up in, his/her attitude could be different. Probably pretty optimistic too.

 

Smuggler B grew up on the streets of Nar Shadaa, scavenging for food and water on a regular basis after his/her parents abandoned him/her. He/she eventually got tangled up in a smuggling operation, sneaking rare and exotic beasts to Drooga the Hutt. Now, he/she went freelance and is now an experienced smuggler.

 

Based on his/her upbringing, they'd probably be pretty dang streetwise and knows how to gain credibility amongst the underworld of most planets. Also not probably the most compassionate out there, since Nar Shadaa's a rough town, and all he/she had for guidance were a bunch of Smugglers. Odds are, a pessimist.

 

 

Yes, it's the character that makes RPing with them fun, but it's the backstory that explains how that character came about. If everyone were an average Joe who had not done anything significant in his life, how interesting do you think their character would be?

Edited March 13, 2012 by Guildrum