How BioWare is ruining Role Play...

[Kharnis]

@Kharnis

 

What about Sith Pureblood troopers? Is that not obliterating the lore?

 

Almost all Sith Pureblood that are born are force sensetive. Those that are not force sensetive are executed.

 

You can spin a tale, sure, here I'll do it for you:

The Sith Pureblood mother knew that her child was not force sensetive, but her motherly feelings refused to let the other people of her species kill her only child, so she fled.

 

She happened upon a republic world and asked for someone to take her child and raise it as one of their own.

 

 

Is this a good background for a Sith Pureblood trooper? Excellent! Now imagine this x100 for that is what we'll see on our RP servers. It's a go d da mned (spacings because of profanity filter, geez) stretch and your character will be super-unique and I, along with a lot of other roleplayers who actually care about the lore and story, will facepalm at this

 

You should probably roll a Jedi Knight and pay attention to the class story. Especially when it moves you to Belsavis. And you should probably check out the class story before you make any more statements like "those that are not Force sensitive are executed."

 

So, to answer your question: no, a Sith Pureblood trooper is not "obliterating lore." No more than a defecting Imperial soldier being entrusted in a position of power and authority is.

[DarthRavnos]

Is this a good background for a Sith Pureblood trooper? Excellent! Now imagine this x100 for that is what we'll see on our RP servers.

 

Exactly this is what the PRO in favor people who claim to Role Play properly are not registering in their heads. Rare instances of people defecting to the other side, or using weapons that were symbols for other factions....are no longer rare when EVERYONE is doing it.

[Kharnis]

Exactly this is what the PRO in favor people who claim to Role Play properly are not registering in their heads. Rare instances of people defecting to the other side, or using weapons that were symbols for other factions....are no longer rare when EVERYONE is doing it.

 

Here's yet another error in logic that you're committing. People defecting to the other side are anything but rare in official Star Wars lore. It happens all the time. In fact, defection is so prevalent in Star Wars that anyone watching, reading, or playing could be forgiven for thinking that the good guys would've been doomed several times over if not for these defections.

[Raeln]

Exactly this is what the PRO in favor people who claim to Role Play properly are not registering in their heads. Rare instances of people defecting to the other side, or using weapons that were symbols for other factions....are no longer rare when EVERYONE is doing it.

 

I don't see how this is any worse than every trooper being the CO of Havoc Squad.

 

You do know there is only one Havoc Squad, right?

[Lodril]

Lightsaber is not just a weapon but also a symbol. Colour of a lightsaber represent ones philosophy, and approach to force and matters of life and death... Sith with a blue/green lightsaber and jedi with red one would look very odd. Can you imagine survivor(or his descendant) of a genocide wearing uniform or symbols of the people that comitted genocide? And both Sith and Jedis comintted acts of genocide against each other and in terms of perspective I find i t hard to belive that any side would carry the otheres symbols and lightsaber(and its colour) is a symbol as much as it is weapon...

 

Yes! This is exactly why crystals should not be restricted by alignment!

Currently, there are blue and green sabres among the Sith because those players are picking light-side choices, and there are red sabres among the Jedi because those players are picking dark-side choices. Right now, the color isn't chosen by faction, it's chosen by morality. Tom Cruise should be swinging through the windows and arresting everyone in the Republic with a red crystal. Meanwhile, anyone with a blue or green one in the Empire should probably be getting the bum's rush for being 'weak'.

 

If there's an argument to be had, it's not that the crystals should be restricted by alignment, it's that they should be restricted by faction.

 

 

Equally absurd, the same color crystals are in blasters. So as an amusing corollary, apparently the mechanics maintaining the ships for the Republic are all dark-side, and the ones doing the same thing for the Empire are all light-side. Weird, eh?

[Majspuffen]

You should probably roll a Jedi Knight and pay attention to the class story. Especially when it moves you to Belsavis. And you should probably check out the class story before you make any more statements like "those that are not Force sensitive are executed."

 

So, to answer your question: no, a Sith Pureblood trooper is not "obliterating lore." No more than a defecting Imperial soldier being entrusted in a position of power and authority is.

 

I assume this is an extremely isolated case?

 

Let me quote something from the Revan book for you, and perhaps you'll see things from my perspective:

 

"Unlike the humans that made up the bulk of the Empire's population, the Sith species were all blessed with the power of the Force to varying degrees. It marked them as elite; it elevated them above the lower ranks of Imperial society. And it was a legacy that was fervently protected.

 

A pureblood born without any connection to the Force was an abomination; by custom such a creature could not be suffered to live."

 

I can understand that there are defectors on both sides, but the Sith Pureblood are more or less born zealots and seeing a republic Sith Pureblood would be an EXTREMELY rare sight and I don't care how many you may have encountered in your class story.

 

 

 

Similar backgrounds happen. Not everyone can have a unique snowflake back story to go with their characters. I'd say that most of the time I've interacted with people, their unique nature came in the form of their personalities, not by their backgrounds.

 

Exactly! The regular Joe trooper can be a much more interesting character than mr goody-shoes Sith despite not being a special snowflake. In fact, I believe that regular Joe trooper will always be a much more interesting character than any special goody-shoes Sith.

 

Some options should not be open, that is what I'm saying. I don't care much for the colour crystals because the current system doesn't work anyway and only restricts those who happen to roll nice siths or mean jedis. But Sith Purebloods should under no circumstances be a playable race for the republic... and I do also believe that the empire does not need more aliens. Again, what the hell are the twi'lek, rattataki and zabrak doing in the empire? (actually, for the slave SI and the bounty hunters, those races makes sense.)

Edited March 8, 2012 by Majspuffen

[Kharnis]

I assume this is an extremely isolated case?

 

Let me quote something from the Revan book for you, and perhaps you'll see things from my perspective:

 

"Unlike the humans that made up the bulk of the Empire's population, the Sith species were all blessed with the power of the Force to varying degrees. It marked them as elite; it elevated them above the lower ranks of Imperial society. And it was a legacy that was fervently protected.

 

A pureblood born without any connection to the Force was an abomination; by custom such a creature could not be suffered to live."

 

I can understand that there are defectors on both sides, but the Sith Pureblood are more or less born zealots and seeing a republic Sith Pureblood would be an EXTREMELY rare sight and I don't care how many you may have encountered in your class story.

 

 

 

 

 

Exactly! The regular Joe trooper can be a much more interesting character than mr goody-shoes Sith despite not being a special snowflake. In fact, I believe that regular Joe trooper will always be a much more interesting character than any special goody-shoes Sith.

 

Some options should not be open, that is what I'm saying. I don't care much for the colour crystals because the current system doesn't work anyway and only restricts those who happen to roll nice siths or mean jedis. But Sith Purebloods should under no circumstances be a playable race for the republic... and I do also believe that the empire does not need more aliens. Again, what the hell are the twi'lek, rattataki and zabrak doing in the empire? (actually, for the slave SI and the bounty hunters, those races makes sense.)

 

So, you've just admitted that you don't know what the "lore" is, considering you began your post with "I assume..."

 

Let me help you out here. Your mistake is not in the "most Purebloods are Force sensitive" argument. It's unprovable, as there is no official statement on this (and no, I don't consider a thought by a character in a book to be considered "truthful," or accurate), but that's not where your error lies. Perhaps you should look at what you claimed again, and see if you can figure out which part I'm talking about? Or, maybe, you can either do the Jedi Knight class story or do some research on the class quests on Belsavis.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Kharnis

[Majspuffen]

So, you've just admitted that you don't know what the "lore" is, considering you began your post with "I assume..."

 

Let me help you out here. Your mistake is not in the "most Purebloods are Force sensitive" argument. It's unprovable, as there is no official statement on this (the closest is the assertion in "Jedi vs. Sith" that the Sith species had a higher than average Force-sensitivity), but that's not where your error lies. Perhaps you should look at what you claimed again, and see if you can figure out which part I'm talking about? Or, maybe, you can either do the Jedi Knight class story or do some research on the class quests on Belsavis.

 

I appreciate that you do not outright spoil whatever happens on belsavis for the Jedi Knight but hell, should I have to play ONE SPECIFIC CLASS just to know the lore of this damned game? I never saw any Sith Pureblood in the republic playing my agent, my sith warrior or my jedi consular (granted, haven't finished the consular story yet).

[Darth_Slaine]

Bioware has not obliterated TOR lore in any way. The lore for the game is theirs to expand and tinker with as they see fit. The new lore allows for Sith pureblood troopers.

 

If you don't like the new Lore, don't RP a Sith trooper. It always amazes me that the people that present themselves as defenders of lore are the first to complain when the lore doesn't fit their tastes.

 

You need to accept that Sith troopers now make IC sense and are supported in the game universe.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Darth_Slaine

[Kharnis]

I appreciate that you do not outright spoil whatever happens on belsavis for the Jedi Knight but hell, should I have to play ONE SPECIFIC CLASS just to know the lore of this damned game? I never saw any Sith Pureblood in the republic playing my agent, my sith warrior or my jedi consular (granted, haven't finished the consular story yet).

 

Fine.

 

 

On Belsavis, you encounter a Pureblood who is not Force Sensitive. Yet, he is not only working for the Empire, he's a high ranking officer in the Empire. In fact, he's achieved the highest rank a non-Force User can achieve. Oh, and one of his trusted officers, a Colonel, no less, is also a Pureblood who is not Force Sensitive. And both are working on behalf of the Emperor.

 

 

So it has nothing whatsoever to do with "Sith Purebloods in the Republic." Which you would know if you bothered to do even a bare minimum of research. For instance, you are aware as to how the Legacy system works, do you not? You do know that, in order to even have a Sith Pureblood Trooper, you first have to level a Pureblood to level 50. This will unlock the Pureblood for use in all classes.

 

Ah, but there's another part of the story here that you seem to have missed. The Pureblood can only be created initially for a Warrior or Inquisitor. And once you've completed Chapter 3 of your class story, you unlock the Heroic Ability of your class for use on another class. Guess what that means?

 

That's right. That Sith Pureblood Trooper that you're throwing your arms up into the air and declaring the source of the "obliteration" of lore because Purebloods are Force Sensitive is, in fact, a Force Sensitive Trooper. I'm afraid that this is one of your major peeves "obliterated" with logic, legwork, and lore. The three "L"s, so to speak.

 

This leaves only one objection left to you: the odds on seeing a Sith Pureblood in the Republic Armed Forces. I will leave it up to you as to whether you want to argue this, but I will leave you with one piece of advice that I strongly urge you to take: don't try to rely on the "defections are rare, yet look at all these [insert Imperial species here]." Trust me, you will not win using that argument either.

[Majspuffen]

Fine.

 

 

On Belsavis, you encounter a Pureblood who is not Force Sensitive. Yet, he is not only working for the Empire, he's a high ranking officer in the Empire. In fact, he's achieved the highest rank a non-Force User can achieve. Oh, and one of his trusted officers, a Colonel, no less, is also a Pureblood who is not Force Sensitive. And both are working on behalf of the Emperor.

 

 

 

So basically, what you are saying is that the Jedi Knight story is retconning one of the statements from the Revan Novel? I find this odd because the author for the Revan novel was the same guy who created the Jedi Knight storyline.

 

And you can drop the attitude, Kharnis. I have researched the lore of this game quite extensively. What I hadn't done was to play the Jedi Knight story, and can you blame me for that? I've played 3 out of 8 stories, and that's a lot.

 

Still, knowing this I'd still say that you're grasping at straws. Bioware are free to change the lore and tinker with the game as much as they want and it's up to each individual customer to either approve or disapprove. And I disapprove. All the good things about 1.2 has been overshadowed by this one decision.

 

We all really know why they are doing this change, though. People have been whining about the lack of races, voila, Bioware caving into whining. In the beta it was argued whether Sith Pureblood would be allowed to be Sith Inquisitors or not.

[Dannicus]

Seriously BioWare? Anyone has the potential to use the Force. Even the non-sensitive. I don't have any fancy quote anywhere. But somehow I feel this is appropriate. Do you want a pony?

 

Irony being the quote this replied to about an Imperial Agent using Force Choke isn't exactly far-fetched. I think someone needs to play an Agent through Hoth and meet Ensign Temple.

[Kharnis]

So basically, what you are saying is that the Jedi Knight story is retconning one of the statements from the Revan Novel? I find this odd because the author for the Revan novel was the same guy who created the Jedi Knight storyline.

 

And you can drop the attitude, Kharnis. I have researched the lore of this game quite extensively. What I hadn't done was to play the Jedi Knight story, and can you blame me for that? I've played 3 out of 8 stories, and that's a lot.

 

Still, knowing this I'd still say that you're grasping at straws. Bioware are free to change the lore and tinker with the game as much as they want and it's up to each individual customer to either approve or disapprove. And I disapprove. All the good things about 1.2 has been overshadowed by this one decision.

 

We all really know why they are doing this change, though. People have been whining about the lack of races, voila, Bioware caving into whining. In the beta it was argued whether Sith Pureblood would be allowed to be Sith Inquisitors or not.

 

I think my attitude is quite justified. You are here, pounding the pulpit while dramatically declaring the lore "obliterated," and yet you don't have even the most basic grasp of what is actually happening in the game, and thus the lore. Despite that, you are still proclaiming your correctness in the issue and arrogantly proclaiming that your research is "extensive." I wasn't aware that 37.5% of the stories experienced is now considered "extensive." Apparently, you have a far different definition than I do.

 

You don't have to approve of what is happening. You don't have to disapprove. All you have to do is accept, because whether you like it or not, this game is approved by the folks at LucasArts and Lucasfilms. That makes the stories in this game official lore. That also includes things like Pureblood Troopers, whether you like it or not. Bioware has backed their Pureblood Troopers with an official, lore-plausible explanation. And it's one that Lucas and the boys have given the thumbs-up to.

 

But do please continue to pontificate on why this is bad, and bring up how there are going to be hundreds of Pureblood Troopers to make your point. All I will say to you is: relax. Take a deep breath. Things won't be nearly as bad as you fear. People who choose to create an Imperial character do so for a reason: they don't want to play on the Republic. There won't be nearly as many players creating both Imperial and Republic characters as you fear. And for those few who do create both (and create both on the same server, might I add), very few of those players are going to do so with the explicit purpose of rolling that Pureblood Trooper that you seem to think not only "obliterates" the lore, but is solely responsible for the eradication of everything that is good about the upcoming 1.2 patch.

 

I'd say that was one hell of a powerful lore killing event, but I suspect that you're being more than a little hyperbolic.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Kharnis

[Majspuffen]

You don't have to approve of what is happening. You don't have to disapprove. All you have to do is accept, because whether you like it or not, this game is approved by the folks at LucasArts and Lucasfilms. That makes the stories in this game official lore. That also includes things like Pureblood Troopers, whether you like it or not. Bioware has backed their Pureblood Troopers with an official, lore-plausible explanation. And it's one that Lucas and the boys have given the thumbs-up to.

 

Give me the official source on that or your statement is invalid.

 

You've found one exception that is inconsistent with the majority of the story, that does not fit what is written by Drew Karpyshyn in his novel 'Revan'. Drew's words >>>>>>>>>>>>>> yours.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Majspuffen

[Darth_Slaine]

Give me the official source on that or your statement is invalid.

 

You've found one exception that is inconsistent with the majority of the story, that does not fit what is written by Drew Karpyshyn in his novel 'Revan'. Drew's words >>>>>>>>>>>>>> yours.

 

When discussing the game, the lore of the game trumps the lore of the novelizations.

[Asturias]

When discussing the game, the lore of the game trumps the lore of the novelizations.

 

No it doesn't. I bet if GL saw the big picture behind this and enough people send a petition than these changes can go back to the drawing boards. I came to play Star Wars not watch BioWARE butcher the lore to please a few who have no clue regarding the impact this going to have. I know you might think people like me should get a life but i grew up watching the movies, reading the books and share that with my kids as a father. I am telling you this will destroy the identifiers of the two sides and lose the appeal of yhe game for many true fans. This reminds me of what Sony did and look how that turned out, it had promise until the talking heads destroyed it.

[ScarletBlaze]

No it doesn't. I bet if GL saw the big picture behind this and enough people send a petition than these changes can go back to the drawing boards. I came to play Star Wars not watch BioWARE butcher the lore to please a few who have no clue regarding the impact this going to have. I know you might think people like me should get a life but i grew up watching the movies, reading the books and share that with my kids as a father. I am telling you this will destroy the identifiers of the two sides and lose the appeal of yhe game for many true fans. This reminds me of what Sony did and look how that turned out, it had promise until the talking heads destroyed it.

 

Do you really think GL/Lucas Arts has no idea of what they are doing. They hold the license. Furthermore the setting on this game is not in the movies, so BW has the freedom to do more than what Sony could do. Sony game was based on the timeline on the movies. BW game is not based on that time line.

[Sylriana]

I know you might think people like me should get a life but i grew up watching the movies, reading the books and share that with my kids as a father.

Attempting to twist the argument around or make yourself into a fake martyr ( by pretending people who disagree with you do so because they don't care about star wars, and then pretending people are attacking you for loving star wars) isn't doing you any favors.

I am telling you this will destroy the identifiers of the two sides and lose the appeal of yhe game for many true fans

One must question how much of a "true fan" someone is if Bioware making the game more in line with established SW lore and removing an arbitrary and pointless restriction on a secondary aesthetic element "ruins" the game for them.

[Darth-Malice]

Why would people want to roleplay in a universe full of Mary Sue's?

[Stormkitten]

Why would people want to roleplay in a universe full of Mary Sue's?

 

People who want to play a Mary Sue will find a way to do it anyway.

[DeadlyScythe]

1 the light and dark side restriction on the crystals should never have happend. as its... weird? come on you need 2 be dark side for a red crystal as you can not use blue or green anymore? anakin then had some problems in the jedi temple when killing there as he stil used blue

 

the whole crystal is just your own choose. yes the sith did take red because it stands for domination and rage and jedi more green or blue as it stands for peacefull and calm

 

but dark jedis like exar kun stil used a blue crystal himself. Its uncommon but not impossible for jedi 2 use a red crystal.

 

as for 2. the things you learn from a SW and SI family member are choke and lightning. choke is not a very hard trick for any 1 to learn. hell darth vader was almost a full cyborg and that restricts force use and all the force and he mostly used were choke and telekenetic. but if you have a bounty hunter legacy family member you will get his flamethrower. that is just a device they can pass down.

 

 

so yea. calm down m8 it does not destroy anything. hell it opens even up MORE RP. and the choking as a trooper can only be done with a companion every 20 mins or so. ( will get reduced with more companions who are done with story)

[Lord_Karsk]

People need to understand this game have nothing to do with the real star wars universe.

In the real star wars universe if you as a jedi came along with a red saber the jedi would either re school you or kill you or kick you out.

 

And a agent etc using the force is just plain braindead.So it's clear lucasarts

dont care about up holding any canon in this game. Because if they did they would

never have aproven any of this.

 

I just think of this now as just another mmo that has little to nothing to do with the

real star wars universe we all love.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Lord_Karsk

[Daviea]

can a smuggler really force choke in 1.2 ????? that is just plain stupid

[DeadlyScythe]

can a smuggler really force choke in 1.2 ????? that is just plain stupid

 

why is that stupid? force choke is 1 of the lowest forms of force usings. ( its powerfull but very easy 2 learn if you are force sensative) you can only do it if you have a sith warrior lvl 50 and give that heroic ability towards the smuggler ( only usable with a companion)

 

its not game breaking. its not lore screwing. its a OW crap panic button

[Lord_Karsk]

why is that stupid? force choke is 1 of the lowest forms of force usings. ( its powerfull but very easy 2 learn if you are force sensative) you can only do it if you have a sith warrior lvl 50 and give that heroic ability towards the smuggler ( only usable with a companion)

 

its not game breaking. its not lore screwing. its a OW crap panic button

 

Nice to see someone talking about lore and not having a actual clue what they are talking about.