Im so confused... Vengance or Rage

[Russianzombie]

So i was an Immortal Jugg but then ive decided i want to go into Rage or Veng for the endgame and pvp and all. But i have no idea which one to do and which is better for PvE and PvP? Can any1 else just point out the benefits and downsides of Rage and Vengence?

[coldserpent]

Despite what most people will say, what is "best" just boils down to your playstyle, and if you have fun w/ it. I've done all 3 trees across two Sith Juggernauts in various builds. Personally, I have a lot of fun w/ Vengeance as my spec. I have fast refreshing, hard hitting attacks. I also have great survivability, especially when I initiate into a fight regardless of pvp/pve.

 

Do you like winding up for a big hit, then have to wind yourself up again? Rage has that covered. Do you like applying sustained pressure on someone, with great hard hitting moves? Vengeance does that well, if you're patient enough to learn it over and over again, and willing to spend some more time investing in handling it.

 

Immortal is great for soaking damage and filling someone's resolve bar real fast, and your hardest hitting melee attack is on a 15 second cooldown.

[Russianzombie]

So if i came from the Immortal tree which dps tree would be best to transition to for me?

[coldserpent]

I would say that Vengeance would have a bit easier of a time, since it offers great(if not better) survivability than Immortal, and attacks with quicker cooldowns. If you're used to beating down on one target at a time, Vengeance.

 

If you're used to throwing Smash bombs everywhere, go Rage. Vengeance does have better staying power though with less ability downtime.

 

The toughest part is adjusting from being a controller specialized Immortal Juggernaut, to either a brute Vengeance spec or a mad bomber Rage spec.

 

Rather than taking your time with fights as Immortal, you go with more of a frantic damage race in fights. IT'S FUN AND GREAT!!!

[MorgothQuick]

Go Vengeance for solo queuing PvP and never look back. Unstoppable and Huddle are just too good. Leaping at Sorcerors and they use their knockback right away only for you to laugh maniacally before proceeding to pummel their face never gets old.

[bizcuits]

Despite what most people will say, what is "best" just boils down to your playstyle, and if you have fun w/ it.

 

Bingo.

 

You can be a good Veng or a good Rage Jugg, it all depends on if you enjoy playing with or that way.

 

I have rolled both and found I enjoy the Veng route best. Sure you don't get the 20k of dps when all your Smashs crit for 4k a piece, but that isn't so much my play style. I prefer being the guy who grabs you around the neck and rides your rear. I find veng to be enjoyable, because I'm beefy, attacks like scream can hit for 2-4K, and I can effectively remove healers from the fight. When I charge into the fray, target a healer and stay on his butt, he isn't doing anything but running for his life to avoid light saber sodomy.

[WarSiren]

Bingo.

 

You can be a good Veng or a good Rage Jugg, it all depends on if you enjoy playing with or that way.

 

I have rolled both and found I enjoy the Veng route best. Sure you don't get the 20k of dps when all your Smashs crit for 4k a piece, but that isn't so much my play style. I prefer being the guy who grabs you around the neck and rides your rear. I find veng to be enjoyable, because I'm beefy, attacks like scream can hit for 2-4K, and I can effectively remove healers from the fight. When I charge into the fray, target a healer and stay on his butt, he isn't doing anything but running for his life to avoid light saber sodomy.

 

Hahaha That was great!! If I wasn't 90% sure they'd change it on me, it would be my new Forum signature!

[Cassp]

Veng pve, rage pvp... put it this way, if you can't beat 300k and 50k protection, you're doing it wrong.

[CrunkShizzle]

Veng pve, rage pvp... put it this way, if you can't beat 300k and 50k protection, you're doing it wrong.

 

what if you wanna do both though

 

 

assuming that,by the time i hit 50(im lvl 20 right now)that dual spec wont be in the game.i figured id just level as vengeance and then at 50 spec rage but i dont know

 

vengeance is pretty fun so far in pvp though

Edited March 10, 2012 by CrunkShizzle

[WarSiren]

Veng pve, rage pvp... put it this way, if you can't beat 300k and 50k protection, you're doing it wrong.

 

Vengeance can do that. Infact there's videos on this very forum showing they can. So you're wrong. Vengeance is good for both PvE and PvP but there are two different builds.

[Russianzombie]

So what would be a good vengence build for pvp and pve?

[WarSiren]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101crZIMrRruddMR.1

 

That is the best Rage PvP build it handles fairly well in PvE not optimal but you can hol your own if you're looking to do both but don't want to respec, this one will do very well in PvP and get you by in PvE. However I do recommend respecing to a PvE build for Hard Mode FPs and Ops.

 

Pve builds are

 

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101cMZIMRRMhddhRZG.1

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101cMZIMMRMuddGRZh.1

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101drhZIMRRMhddhR.1

 

There's a few more PvE builds floating around, you can easily find this is a good starting point.

[Terrestrial]

The last build posted was vengeance not rage....

[Diviciacus]

Go Vengeance for solo queuing PvP and never look back. Unstoppable and Huddle are just too good. Leaping at Sorcerors and they use their knockback right away only for you to laugh maniacally before proceeding to pummel their face never gets old.

 

This. So much this. I've torn much better geared sages/sorcs apart simply because as soon as you don't go flying away, their battle plans go out the window.

[Actua]

This. So much this. I've torn much better geared sages/sorcs apart simply because as soon as you don't go flying away, their battle plans go out the window.

 

Well, knockback or not, Vengeance, if played well, will let you massacre anyone in 1v1, and have an even fight with marauders given you cc through undying rage.

 

The AOE from Rage can be very beneficial in group setups.

 

I personally enjoy both, but Rippin **** up with vengeance never gets old. Aint nothing like force choking someone at half life while shatter/scream/impale are tickin off, adn finishing that choke with a beautiful vicous throw. Yummy.

[Actua]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101crZIMrRruddMR.1

 

That is the best Rage PvP build it handles fairly well in PvE not optimal but you can hol your own if you're looking to do both but don't want to respec, this one will do very well in PvP and get you by in PvE. However I do recommend respecing to a PvE build for Hard Mode FPs and Ops.

 

Pve builds are

 

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101cMZIMRRMhddhRZG.1

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101cMZIMMRMuddGRZh.1

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101drhZIMRRMhddhR.1

 

There's a few more PvE builds floating around, you can easily find this is a good starting point.

 

OMG, you can't go vengeance dots and not grab malice, malice gives crit to force attacks (I.E yellow attacks), and dots are all yellow. Trust me man, shatter ticks critting for 800-900 is where its at.

 

Here's the PvP vengeance build I use.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101cMZIMrRrhddMRZh.1

 

 

I get sunder to be the most it can be, since I need for shatter, and bringing down armor by 8% everytime gives you an extra edge. It's actually pretty nice to build up on healers and tougher targets.

 

And yeah, malice for the dots. Force choke/shatter/scream/impale dots stacked together are nothign short of awesome.

[Dracosz]

\

 

Here's the PvP vengeance build I use.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101cMZIMrRrhddMRZh.1

 

 

I don't even...

 

Not getting intimidation or deadly repraisal for PvP as vengeance is a terrible move. Low nominal stat gains simply aren't good enough to offset any loss in utility, especially when our primary snare becomes free.

 

7/34/0 (Arguably 9/32/0) are the best ways to handle speccing for vengeance PvP, hands down.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Dracosz

[coldserpent]

I don't even...

 

Not getting intimidation or deadly repraisal for PvP as vengeance is a terrible move. Low nominal stat gains simply aren't good enough to offset any loss in utility, especially when our primary snare becomes free.

 

7/34/0 (Arguably 9/32/0) are the best ways to handle speccing for vengeance PvP, hands down.

 

What about http://db.darthhater.com/skill_calc/sith_warrior/juggernaut/#::efe10dfe3fe2f4ef5e2f20ef7: as a build? The point in unyielding could be swapped to Pooled Hatred, but having an extra 6% critical chance from Malice isn't that bad, is it? You still have the free Chilling Scream as well with this build.

[Dracosz]

What about http://db.darthhater.com/skill_calc/sith_warrior/juggernaut/#::efe10dfe3fe2f4ef5e2f20ef7: as a build? The point in unyielding could be swapped to Pooled Hatred, but having an extra 6% critical chance from Malice isn't that bad, is it? You still have the free Chilling Scream as well with this build.

 

I'm not a huge fan of the talent on the whole, simply because the static stat increase is so low that losing it is effectively offset via buffs (the op buff in particular).

 

I just don't find that in a PvP environment that a 6% crit increase will give you a better shot at killing things. The stacking buff gained from Pooled hatred can lead to some pretty nasty crits. If you really feel like you have too much rage PERHAPS dropping a single point in unyieling for malice would be worth it, but I'm not a big fan of trading away free rage for what will likely be a very small gain in overall damage.

[bananaface]

if you play properly in pvp you can predict 95% of the time when the knockback is coming and where you should position yourself to let them have the least benefit of it.

and if you charge to someone at a great distance that has a knockback, force push him in the wall right away so you got charge ready when you cant avoid that knockback.

 

dont need unstoppable if you do that.

besides, a good player waits with a knockback or cc till unstoppable is over.

 

survivability and being able to stick on your target comes with skill, not so much with the few tools one or another tree brings.

 

OT:

if you want steady dps go vengeance.

if you want burst, go rage.

 

edit: both specs are viable in pvp and pve.

Edited March 14, 2012 by bananaface

[Drykaas]

I recently switched my Jugg to Rage spec, and it may be my play style but Ihave noticed a huge difference. Free Crit Smash and all can be ridic. Edited March 14, 2012 by Drykaas

[Sevvy]

Rage just felt so clunky to me. I was ready to shelve my Warrior for good until I spec'd Vengeance.

 

Vengeance flows and the rage generation is good. Although it doesn't seem to have quite the burst that Rage does. But it's still good. I can't wait to have solid gear so I can see how it performs.

[beyondkilling]

if u want pve go immortal our dps isnt that good atm and veng for pvp

[Dracosz]

if u want pve go immortal our dps isnt that good atm and veng for pvp

 

Wrong on every score. Vengeance is perfectly viable for PvE DPS (As someone that actually tested it over a long period of time with VERY good data comparisons), All classes except arsenal merc are within 5% dps of each other (around 1700 with full debuffs). For PvP all 3 specs are viable, although immortal can be a bit of a deadweight if your other tanks are geared.

[Dirtysolutions]

Im with this guy on this subject *pointing to above poster*