Bioware, what are you thinking?

[Cancrizans]

With all the other issues in this game, and the current state of its endgame, you are worried about seeing different species opening for alts that are 'family' of your main?

 

No Sith ever sired a Jedi, or vice versa, in Starwars right? (sarcasim)

 

The whole canon argument is moot.... This is a LA sanctioned and licensed product (ie. it IS canon).

 

It is PRECISELY because of all the other issues in the game that this makes me feel..."with all they could be working on, why are they spending time giving us things no one is terribly interested in, and which actually shows a lot of disrespect for not only the lore, but just plain common sense".

 

I am sure there are a TON of things they could have come up with besides cross faction races and abilities...it is just silly to the point that I can't personally accept it.

[Sernon]

This is a thematically constructed video game, and Bioware is cannibalizing their own assets in order to provide "new" content that sadly already exists.

 

There is no system in place whatsoever to support the notion of defectors or migration, since that would require some kind of sandbox solution with an actual simulation of events going, rather than just throwing the options around to suit some rather shallow marketing strategy.

 

The visual result will be just as random as the execution, and there is no lore argument to support randomization on this scale, for the representation of the assets will be completely in defiance of the background canvas, and not because there is some kind of carefully constructed "lore" behind it, that card is used as a poor excuse for those that feel their options actually gets improved by trivializing already existing content in the crudest fashion imaginable, by complete recycling of content taken out of the initial presentation format.

 

---

Edited March 9, 2012 by Sernon

[RuQu]

It is quite simple, really. Of course they could reproduce...but the more numerous races in a faction would be reproducing also. There is no way...and when I said "realistic" I was simply referring to the fact that Star Wars, like any fantasy world, does follow many of the norms we observe in our own societies and environments...that it would be even remotely possible that these cross overs could out breed the races established in either faction's populations to the point that what we will no doubt see in game would make any sense.

 

If there were Chiss fleeing the Empire, where would they initially wind up?

 

The Fleet.

 

From there, where could they go? Perhaps the Outer Rim worlds, where populations are sparse, though they would be at greater risk of Imperial assassination. They are almost certain to face prejudice on the Core Worlds.

 

No, odds are they will settle roughly near the point of entry, just as in the real world large numbers of immigrants settled in NYC and San Francisco because those were the major immigration ports for their coasts. They will bind themselves together as immigrant communities, and instead of Little Italy and Chinatown, we will have Little Korriban and Chisstown. And where? On the Fleet.

 

If this happened, what would we expect to see? We would expect to see lots of immigrants on the Fleet Station, and the rare one wandering around a world, with the majority of players in the worlds as non-immigrant and few to none of the NPCs populating the Core Worlds as immigrant races. This parallels the fact that you are far more likely to see a multitude of ethnic backgrounds within NYC, but far fewer if you go up to Albany.

 

And this is what you will see. Lots of level 50 Purebloods and Chiss hanging out on the station. A couple of lower level Purebloods and Chiss leveling up. No Pureblood or Chiss Republic NPCs. Exactly as expected from reality.

[Cancrizans]

If there were Chiss fleeing the Empire, where would they initially wind up?

 

The Fleet.

 

From there, where could they go? Perhaps the Outer Rim worlds, where populations are sparse, though they would be at greater risk of Imperial assassination. They are almost certain to face prejudice on the Core Worlds.

 

No, odds are they will settle roughly near the point of entry, just as in the real world large numbers of immigrants settled in NYC and San Francisco because those were the major immigration ports for their coasts. They will bind themselves together as immigrant communities, and instead of Little Italy and Chinatown, we will have Little Korriban and Chisstown. And where? On the Fleet.

 

If this happened, what would we expect to see? We would expect to see lots of immigrants on the Fleet Station, and the rare one wandering around a world, with the majority of players in the worlds as non-immigrant and few to none of the NPCs populating the Core Worlds as immigrant races. This parallels the fact that you are far more likely to see a multitude of ethnic backgrounds within NYC, but far fewer if you go up to Albany.

 

And this is what you will see. Lots of level 50 Purebloods and Chiss hanging out on the station. A couple of lower level Purebloods and Chiss leveling up. No Pureblood or Chiss Republic NPCs. Exactly as expected from reality.

 

But there is no provision or inclusion of any event remotely like what you are describing. There IS no mass exodus or persecution of a race that would result in such a situation. As with all of these attempts to defend what is really just a lame marketing strategy, you are stretching the facts and using a more than healthy does of imagination to explain the unexplainable.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Cancrizans

[DarthTHC]

I think it's going to be interesting - and not in a good way - to see the Republic Fleet full of pure-blood, bright red Sith with black Mowhawks.

 

Oh yes, that day is coming...

 

Let's plan it as an ingame flashmob!

Edited March 9, 2012 by DarthTHC

[Cancrizans]

I think it's going to be interesting - and not in a good way - to see the Republic Fleet full of pure-blood, bright red Sith with black Mowhawks.

 

Oh yes, that day is coming...

 

Let's plan it as an ingame flashmob!

 

Heh, why not, we are way over the line already lol.

[VanorDM]

to see the Republic Fleet full of pure-blood, bright red Sith with black Mowhawks.

 

You mean like the way the Imperial fleet is filled with them now...

 

Oh yeah but very few people actually play Pureblood Sith, or Chiss, or any other race then Human as is. Yet somehow there will be this flood of Pureblood Sith that magically appear out of thin air.

[DarthTHC]

You mean like the way the Imperial fleet is filled with them now...

 

Oh yeah but very few people actually play Pureblood Sith, or Chiss, or any other race then Human as is. Yet somehow there will be this flood of Pureblood Sith that magically appear out of thin air.

 

That's how Flashmobs work... they hide in plain sight and then when it's time to dance, they appear out of thin air and start dancing!

[RuQu]

But there is no provision or inclusion of any event remotely like what you are describing. There IS no mass exodus or persecution of a race that would result in such a situation. As with all of these attempts to defend what is really just a lame marketing strategy, you are stretching the facts and using a more than healthy does of imagination to explain the unexplainable.

 

I didn't state there was a mass exodus.

 

How large is Carrick Station?

 

How many people are on at any given time. I tend to see ~150 on my server, plus let's say another ~50-100 vendors and non-select-able NPCs.

 

How many Chiss would be too many for you? 1? 10? 30?

 

I grew up in California, and I knew a guy in this older, established neighborhood (not my neighborhood). The neighborhood was mostly White and Hispanic. This Filipino moved in, and he started working to get his whole family to America, cousins and all. He literally built a barracks in his backyard to house them all as they looked for work and the exact population was in constant flux. Due to the demographics, this Filipino family stood out, but there were only 10-15 of them in an entire neighborhood.

 

Sure, historically there have been events, like the Potato Famine in Ireland that have driven mass migrations and established ethnic neighborhoods in places like the East Coast. Other places are just natural immigration with people settling near others who speak their language for support, such as Chinatown in San Francisco. They weren't forced here in mass numbers, there are just a lot of Chinese and when they move somewhere new and don't know the language, they naturally choose to live near people they can speak with and fit in with.

 

So how many Chiss would it take to stand out on Carrick Station? If there were 3 families of 4, and they spent time together regularly due to natural tendency to do so, that alone accounts for a dozen of them. What if they work to get their cousins out?

 

If they are unwelcome on the Core Worlds, there will tend to be a transportation bottle neck at Carrick Station with a population stabilizing there instead of moving on. On such a small station, it doesn't require a mass exodus, just a couple of families before you start to have a noticeable number of them.

[Vyradder]

The more I read of this issue the more I find myself agreeing with the OP. This feature is a "Drizzt enabler" in my mind.

[Viliphied]

I find it next to hysterical that in 22 pages of comments, only a couple of people apparently even read or addressed the most fundamental part of my argument. Perhaps that is because they don't really have any worthwhile response. Instead we have 22 pages of people asserting with brazen confidence things like "there are already examples of X crossover, look at Lord Praven!"

 

Well, to sum up the reason this is meaningless for the thirtieth time: I of course agree that there must be defectors, or whatever you would like to call them, in any given population. One would have to be a fool to not understand that. The problem with almost all of the responses to my OP that disagree is, you are attacking a straw man, not my argument itself.

 

What I am saying is simply this: fully accepting the fact that you will most certainly have a percentage of cross overs from the preferred faction to another in any species, that in itself could NEVER account for the large number of these crossovers we will be seeing in the game. The number of Chiss/Purebloods we will see on Republic Fleet, for example, will be completely unrealistic GIVEN the likely percentage of crossovers that would occur naturally.

 

The only fair response I have seen so far is the perhaps two people who believe that, due to the restriction that we cannot roll these races unless we have leveled one to 50, we will in fact NOT see the numbers I anticipate. That is certainly possible...however I think it is unlikely.

 

I found it humorous as well that someone took the tact of striking an academic posture, apparently in the belief that tossing words like eugenics around and citing scholarly studies would make my argument disappear. The funny thing is they too apparently didn't bother to actually read my post.

 

Please carry on though with another 22 pages of the same commentary that responds to anything but what I actually posted.

 

It's because that part of your argument is, frankly, *********** stupid.

 

Ok, let's just run some #s here, tell me if you think I'm way off. Something like 60% of imperial characters are sith, and 60% of a server population are imperial. So right off the bat, you're only looking at abut a third of the server who even has the POTENTIAL to have 50 pureblood. Let's say 25% of those sith are purebloods (an extremely generous assumption, in my experience), and 80% of THOSE are 50. So, being pretty generous, 7% of a server's population has a 50 pureblood. How many of those do you think are going to switch off their mains to roll a sith pureblood on the opposite faction on the same server? 10% or so? You're looking at 1-2% of republic chars being pureblood. In other words, 0-3 on the fleet at any given time on most servers. The numbers for Chiss will be even smaller.

 

The far bigger issue for your immersion will be the starting worlds. However, that will mostly be a novelty thing, so I would simply suggest not rolling a new character for a couple of weeks after the patch hits, if the immersion is that important to you.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Viliphied

[VanorDM]

Something like 60% of imperial characters are sith...

 

It's going to vary from server to sever I'm sure. But I'd say from what I've seen on my server there's no where near that high of a % of Sith Imperials.

 

Which further strengthens your point, that there is simply no reason to assume there will be this sudden horde of Sith on the Republic side.

[Viliphied]

It's going to vary from server to sever I'm sure. But I'd say from what I've seen on my server there's no where near that high of a % of Sith Imperials.

 

Which further strengthens your point, that there is simply no reason to assume there will be this sudden horde of Sith on the Republic side.

 

By "sith" above, i meant force using classes, since purebloods can only be force users (now). I'd say maybe 25% of THEM are sith, so ~15% of the imperial population (about 1 in 7) which I agree, is a pretty damn generous estimation.

[VanorDM]

By "sith" above, i meant force using classes, since purebloods can only be force users (now).

 

I see. I thought you meant the race, but when you put it that way, yes I'd say your numbers are going to be pretty close to true.

[Cancrizans]

It's because that part of your argument is, frankly, *********** stupid.

 

Ok, let's just run some #s here, tell me if you think I'm way off. Something like 60% of imperial characters are sith, and 60% of a server population are imperial. So right off the bat, you're only looking at abut a third of the server who even has the POTENTIAL to have 50 pureblood. Let's say 25% of those sith are purebloods (an extremely generous assumption, in my experience), and 80% of THOSE are 50. So, being pretty generous, 7% of a server's population has a 50 pureblood. How many of those do you think are going to switch off their mains to roll a sith pureblood on the opposite faction on the same server? 10% or so? You're looking at 1-2% of republic chars being pureblood. In other words, 0-3 on the fleet at any given time on most servers. The numbers for Chiss will be even smaller.

 

The far bigger issue for your immersion will be the starting worlds. However, that will mostly be a novelty thing, so I would simply suggest not rolling a new character for a couple of weeks after the patch hits, if the immersion is that important to you.

 

Well while I disagree that the argument is *********** stupid, I will point out that I conceded that it will be not so much of a problem if the numbers are as low as you and a few others imagine they will be.

 

I kind of doubt that will be the case. I also disagree with these changes simply because in my opinion they are a very poor, unneeded, and unrequested change that could have been replaced with something much more interesting and beneficial both to the game and its players.

 

It is impossible to project how many cross overs we will see...so at this point to argue further isn't very constructive, at least concerning whether or not we will see a disruptive number of cross overs.

 

The only thing I would further add, which is something that is simply a matter of opinion I suppose, is that I just FEEL that these changes are lacking imagination, causing unneeded problems(as quite a few people in this thread and others share my concerns) and don't speak well for Bioware's dedication to either the Star Wars franchise itself, or frankly standards of consistency that have existed since MMOs were created.

 

All in all, I am not impressed, and I guess I will leave it at that.

[Cancrizans]

Sooooo...

 

Now that it has been announced that you won't even have to get a race to 50 to unlock it for all classes(just get to legacy 8 and pay 1.5 million credits), how is that "there won't be that many cross overs around because you have to have a level 50 of the race" etc. argument working for you guys?

 

Please don't argue that 1.5 million credits is a lot, because everyone who has been at level 50 for more than a week or two knows it's not.

[Bubba_Phett]

sith pureblood BH.... or whatever. Really? thats how its going to go down?

 

-.- desperation imo

[Cancrizans]

sith pureblood BH.... or whatever. Really? thats how its going to go down?

 

-.- desperation imo

 

Just plain lame, isn't it? I mean at this point it isn't even about to what degree this does or doesn't break canon...it is just a really lame excuse for content, and one that I never saw anyone ask for.

[Bubba_Phett]

Just plain lame, isn't it? I mean at this point it isn't even about to what degree this does or doesn't break canon...it is just a really lame excuse for content, and one that I never saw anyone ask for.

 

 

 

improve upon what one has. instead of adding features which make people go -.^

 

 

but thats just my opnion

Edited March 15, 2012 by Bubba_Phett

[JackalTurner]

The Chiss thing is no big deal.

 

No offense, but half the time as an Agent Chiss you are pretending to not be part of the empire anyway. your guy even fakes his accent so he doesnt seem imperial. That implies that there are indeed Chiss who are not working with the Empire. Perfect evidence for that being canon.

 

 

The purebloods are another issue though. While I do find it kind of odd there would be purebloods as Jedi...I must say I am guilty of wanting to be one. I want to me my Warrior character as a Jedi. a sort of "If he ever redeemed himself" kind of character.

 

Besides, the Jedi already get a Pureblood companion, so there are already a bunch of purebloods running around the station...they are all just the same pureblood.

[Bubba_Phett]

The Chiss thing is no big deal.

 

 

The purebloods are another issue though. While I do find it kind of odd there would be purebloods as Jedi...I must say I am guilty of wanting to be one. I want to me my Warrior character as a Jedi. a sort of "If he ever redeemed himself" kind of character.

 

Besides, the Jedi already get a Pureblood companion, so there are already a bunch of purebloods running around the station...they are all just the same pureblood.

 

 

Purebloods, just example but i know what your saying however still the point made of mixing and matching w/e seems silly tbh and quite tryhard like "what else could we do to keep em busy"

[Sernon]

I find the "Chiss thing" to matter considerably, since Chess turns out to be more faction friendly with the speed they are blurring the lines now. To be able to spot your enemy by game technical flagging is not faction design, they might as well put Sith on both sides and be done with it. Nobody will ever notice sadly.

 

---

Edited March 15, 2012 by Sernon

[RuQu]

Sooooo...

 

Now that it has been announced that you won't even have to get a race to 50 to unlock it for all classes(just get to legacy 8 and pay 1.5 million credits), how is that "there won't be that many cross overs around because you have to have a level 50 of the race" etc. argument working for you guys?

 

Please don't argue that 1.5 million credits is a lot, because everyone who has been at level 50 for more than a week or two knows it's not.

 

Working pretty well, I think.

 

Certainly working out better than rampant alarmist speculation.

 

If a person really wants a Republic Chiss or Pureblood, and doesn't have any spots to spare to level an Imperial, how many spots do you think that person has free to roll said Chiss? Not many. So they play a Rep Chiss 12.5% of the time...game breaking. Or perhaps they got to Legacy Level 8 plus 1.5million credits on a normal Republic character, unlock Chiss, and roll all 7 alts as Chiss, then remake their main. That's the most you can get from one player...and it's still just one character on the Fleet at time. If they want to RP a whole Chiss family of exiles, why is that not a valid RP option? They certainly put the effort in for it.

 

The complaint about Pureblood BH's is just absurd. The bigger complaint should be about why they can't be a BH by default. You're telling me they are incapable of picking up a pair of blaster pistols? Pretty sure I saw Luke use a blaster on occasion.

[Cancrizans]

Working pretty well, I think.

 

Certainly working out better than rampant alarmist speculation.

 

If a person really wants a Republic Chiss or Pureblood, and doesn't have any spots to spare to level an Imperial, how many spots do you think that person has free to roll said Chiss? Not many. So they play a Rep Chiss 12.5% of the time...game breaking. Or perhaps they got to Legacy Level 8 plus 1.5million credits on a normal Republic character, unlock Chiss, and roll all 7 alts as Chiss, then remake their main. That's the most you can get from one player...and it's still just one character on the Fleet at time. If they want to RP a whole Chiss family of exiles, why is that not a valid RP option? They certainly put the effort in for it.

 

The complaint about Pureblood BH's is just absurd. The bigger complaint should be about why they can't be a BH by default. You're telling me they are incapable of picking up a pair of blaster pistols? Pretty sure I saw Luke use a blaster on occasion.

 

Well regarding your first paragraph, I think you will be the one proved to be speculating luxuriantly, but I guess we ought to wait and see how things turn out.

 

Regarding your second, I think you are the one being absurd. Pureblood Sith have the Sith code deep in their blood...and while I don't personally agree with it, and will concede that it may be possible a few scraggly Purebloods may put that aside, I can't imagine any notable percentage of them taking up a career like Bounty Hunting. It just seems against their philosophy and tendencies.

[RuQu]

Well regarding your first paragraph, I think you will be the one proved to be speculating luxuriantly, but I guess we ought to wait and see how things turn out.

 

Regarding your second, I think you are the one being absurd. Pureblood Sith have the Sith code deep in their blood...and while I don't personally agree with it, and will concede that it may be possible a few scraggly Purebloods may put that aside, I can't imagine any notable percentage of them taking up a career like Bounty Hunting. It just seems against their philosophy and tendencies.

 

I was unaware that philosophy was genetic.