What's up with all the salve guilds?

[TheGreatNeechi]

CosmicKat is my muse.

 

If you can disassociate violence from video games, you can disassociate sex too.

 

It's like this national discussion in America all of sudden, taking us back to the early 20th century: Contraception? Really?

 

I understand how someone can take offense to ERP, but seriously, some people act as if it's the root of all evil. It's getting old. It's time to grow up.

Edited March 16, 2012 by TheGreatNeechi

[avariambush]

CosmicKat is my muse.

 

If you can disassociate violence from video games, you can disassociate sex too.

 

It's like this national discussion in America all of sudden, taking us back to the early 20th century: Contraception? Really?

 

I understand how someone can take offense to ERP, but seriously, some people act as if it's the root of all evil. It's getting old. It's time to grow up.

 

I don't take offense to ERP.

 

And I don't mind taking your sophomoric "prude" jabs in order to call these people out. I am a fan of adult fantasy. I liek the stories I tell and take a part in to be gritty, edgy and yes sexual.

 

But there are people who come to the sandbox to take a **** in it. They are not here to storytell they are here to enact cybersex. I'm not starting a campaign to have them banned, but I got no problem being the "hardarse" that calls them out and tar and feathers them.

 

In my mind they are griefers. Not satan. Griefers, hiding in the disguise of roleplayers with creative license.

Edited March 16, 2012 by avariambush

[ScarletBlaze]

As other people stated, slave play, and BDSM RP in MMO's has been prevalent across the board.

 

There has never been a larger group community of it outside Second Life than in SWG. I think the reason why is because it's actively encouraged by the lore of the Star Wars canon itself. Slavery for sex reasons is clear and open in nearly everything you see in Star Wars.

 

I was in SWG. The clear majority of large guilds I got to know engaged in full scale ERP BDSM role play. A large amount of those guilds also engaged in such activities together in real life and made it part of their lifestyle. They also put in a lot of effort to meet each other and do those activities together---most notably at conventions. I personally know of several marriages and real life love relationships that were ruined because of the addictive ERP slave/bondage stuff done in SWG.

 

Sadly, it became so acceptable and prevalent among a majority, that it was also acceptable to force their ERP on others in blatant public ERP displays, guild-centric ERP displays, and/or actively pushing it onto others who were not interested or not experienced in it. In a way, it started to seem like a bit of an unhealthy addiction in the game, and that is the #1 reason why I quit SWG, because I was unhappy with the majority of players who engaged in it or pushed it at me against my personal preferences. It got to be that if you wanted acceptance in your guild and wanted to be part of the "cool guys" scene, you either went along with it, or you got yourself cold shouldered and cut out of any RP because your unwillingness to go to full scale violent and abusive ERP made you no fun to be around.

 

So, a lot of the slave guilds and play you're seeing here are directly imported from SWG. I remember I actually cried in frustration when they announced that they were shutting down SWG because I wanted it to stay up and those people to STAY THERE and not come ruin this game for people not in their lifestyle by pushing it onto them, or dragging more people into their sexual addictions.

 

I sincerely hope BioWare strongly enforces against public displays in SWTOR. I totally support people's rights to live their fantasies and lifestyles in private, but most the people I met in SWG just weren't happy unless they could be exhibitionists with their ERP. Many of them are no better than druggies, addicted, and pushing their addiction onto others in public areas instead of just enjoying their lifestyle in private where it belongs.

 

Depends on what you mean as public display. There are normal public displays as kissing,/huging/firting/ which are totally acceptable forms of affection.

 

Then there are displays that should be kept in private. If they are going beyond what should be seen in public than yes that should be kept private but not all public displays are wrong.

[CosmicKat]

I don't take offense to ERP.

 

And I don't mind taking your sophomoric "prude" jabs in order to call these people out. I am a fan of adult fantasy. I liek the stories I tell and take a part in to be gritty, edgy and yes sexual.

 

But there are people who come to the sandbox to take a **** in it. They are not here to storytell they are here to enact cybersex. I'm not starting a campaign to have them banned, but I got no problem being the "hardarse" that calls them out and tar and feathers them.

 

In my mind they are griefers. Not satan. Griefers, hiding in the disguise of roleplayers with creative license.

 

Nobody is disputing that graphic public Erp is a bad thing. I wouldn't call it griefing. You can /ignore or move away from those doing it. You can't

 

It's also extremely rare. I've played, PvP'd, and roleplayed in a lot of mmo's for a lot of years and I've rarely ever encountered it. I've also done a lot of just "chilling" in cantina type areas and those are the only places you'll have any real chance of seeing them. Mind you, I've never played WoW, only big people games.

 

Private RP of any activity that would be of the 18+ variety is very common among RPers. To think otherwise is just naive.

 

I wouldn't call someone who thinks adult Rpers are "sickos" a prude. If I used the same degree of hyperbole I'd call them Orwellian. They are literally trying to police other people's imaginations.

[SweetNausea]

Lots of stuff in a pretty color.

 

Did we play the same game? o.o

Edited March 17, 2012 by SweetNausea

[avariambush]

Nobody is disputing that graphic public Erp is a bad thing. I wouldn't call it griefing. You can /ignore or move away from those doing it. You can't

 

It's also extremely rare. I've played, PvP'd, and roleplayed in a lot of mmo's for a lot of years and I've rarely ever encountered it. I've also done a lot of just "chilling" in cantina type areas and those are the only places you'll have any real chance of seeing them. Mind you, I've never played WoW, only big people games.

 

Private RP of any activity that would be of the 18+ variety is very common among RPers. To think otherwise is just naive.

 

I wouldn't call someone who thinks adult Rpers are "sickos" a prude. If I used the same degree of hyperbole I'd call them Orwellian. They are literally trying to police other people's imaginations.

 

Well we will run in circles for as long critics refuse to read half of what I'm writing. You know the part where I admit that I am and always have been a fan of mature, adult fantasy and RP. The part where I say for the 10th time this thread that I think slave RP and ERP are legit practices that belong in our storylines.

 

The part where I then transition to the sickos. The ones who log into a star wars video game on an RP server with the intent to gloss over anything that can be called storytelling and just get thier cybersex on. They do exist (to think otherwise is naive), they have taken over entire servers in other games, and this thread starts with a new RP'er wondering if it's natural that entire guilds cater to this behavior.

 

I'm not even talking about if they do it in public or not. Some do, some don't. My reason for posting is to tell it the way it is, feelings for the pervs be damned, because I don't like the idea of people rolling an RP server, trying to get into RP and finding cybersex recruitment as thier first experience.

 

In big #'s these idiots downgrade the quality of the RP server they are on. You can sit there and call me a prude, or Orwellian. Anybody who has Rp'ed with me would laugh in your face. I'm a very liberal RP'er and I like my themes pretty harsh.

 

These slave guild/cybersexers remind me of when I used to play alot of pickup football. We would play tackle and would hit hard but it was all good fun. Every once in a while some bloke who didn't even know how to play football would take advantage of our game and just play to make illegal hits and pick a fight. They would take advantage of the fact that we would accept him, for a while at least, as a rough player.

 

Yes it is Griefing. And the most vulnerable are those new to RP. If you will ever see a common theme among my posts here, it will ALWAYS be defending the new RP'er. New Rp'ers are the lifeline to a server, and nothing squashes an RP server's momentum like cybersexers, cliques & elitists.

Edited March 17, 2012 by avariambush

[Soultranna]

These slave guild/cybersexers ....

 

Can we PLEASE refrain from generalising like this? SOME slaver guilds may be wall to wall cybersex. I can't tell you which ones, because I don't know. I sincerely doubt YOU know all of these guild's activities, at least to the degree that you're willing to call them all out on a public forum.

 

If you have a specific guild in mind that is breaking the EULA by engaging in erotic roleplay in public, then by all means file a petition. But slamming the entire genre like this just makes you look like Rick Santorum trying to shut down "internet pr0n" as a campaign promise... which is to say, "OK now he's being an idiot."

 

Don't be like Santorum, lose the tarred wide brush, and stick to specifics or say nothing. Thank you.

[TheGreatNeechi]

Can we PLEASE refrain from generalising like this? SOME slaver guilds may be wall to wall cybersex. I can't tell you which ones, because I don't know. I sincerely doubt YOU know all of these guild's activities, at least to the degree that you're willing to call them all out on a public forum.

 

If you have a specific guild in mind that is breaking the EULA by engaging in erotic roleplay in public, then by all means file a petition. But slamming the entire genre like this just makes you look like Rick Santorum trying to shut down "internet pr0n" as a campaign promise... which is to say, "OK now he's being an idiot."

 

Don't be like Santorum, lose the tarred wide brush, and stick to specifics or say nothing. Thank you.

 

That is my problem with the discussion right now. Too many generalities. This is why I downplay the offense one should take to public ERP. It is simply much easier to ignore it.

[CosmicKat]

Nobody is disputing that graphic public Erp is a bad thing. I wouldn't call it griefing. You can /ignore or move away from those doing it. You can't

.

 

Oops. Looks like one of my sentences got cut off. It was supposed to read...

 

You can't so easily escape other forms of griefers, like those who park their speeders on the bar, or PvP griefers.

[RebelWeasel]

That is my problem with the discussion right now. Too many generalities. This is why I downplay the offense one should take to public ERP. It is simply much easier to ignore it.

I think you have two good points. Yes, those of us who've had bad experiences do tend to overgeneralize.

 

First, all slave based RP is ERP or cybersex... no, that's not true, I admit that. It's not fair. RPers are being unfairly stigmatized. I get the problem, but what's the solution? By doing blatant open ERP in public, Gamer is perpetuating that viewpoint. If she wants to stop being generalized.... how about she stops the unwanted public displays? Problem solved, right there.

 

Second: People are unfair about generalizing so that makes it OK to ERP in public

Let's clarify something here for you really simple and legal-like. this is a Teen Rated game.

Edited March 17, 2012 by Meluna
not appropriate analogies

[CosmicKat]

Well we will run in circles for as long critics refuse to read half of what I'm writing. You know the part where I admit that I am and always have been a fan of mature, adult fantasy and RP. The part where I say for the 10th time this thread that I think slave RP and ERP are legit practices that belong in our storylines.

 

The part where I then transition to the sickos. The ones who log into a star wars video game on an RP server with the intent to gloss over anything that can be called storytelling and just get thier cybersex on. They do exist (to think otherwise is naive), they have taken over entire servers in other games, and this thread starts with a new RP'er wondering if it's natural that entire guilds cater to this behavior.

 

I'm not even talking about if they do it in public or not. Some do, some don't. My reason for posting is to tell it the way it is, feelings for the pervs be damned, because I don't like the idea of people rolling an RP server, trying to get into RP and finding cybersex recruitment as thier first experience.

 

In big #'s these idiots downgrade the quality of the RP server they are on. You can sit there and call me a prude, or Orwellian. Anybody who has Rp'ed with me would laugh in your face. I'm a very liberal RP'er and I like my themes pretty harsh.

 

These slave guild/cybersexers remind me of when I used to play alot of pickup football. We would play tackle and would hit hard but it was all good fun. Every once in a while some bloke who didn't even know how to play football would take advantage of our game and just play to make illegal hits and pick a fight. They would take advantage of the fact that we would accept him, for a while at least, as a rough player.

 

Yes it is Griefing. And the most vulnerable are those new to RP. If you will ever see a common theme among my posts here, it will ALWAYS be defending the new RP'er. New Rp'ers are the lifeline to a server, and nothing squashes an RP server's momentum like cybersexers, cliques & elitists.

 

Awesome job of simultaneously condemning and supporting mature, adult RP. Do as you say, not as you do? RPing to your own 'line in the sand' is righteous, beyond it is sick and perverse? Makes sense, in an elitist, clique-ish sort of way I guess.

 

The funny part is I am standing up for your right to RP mature, adult themes.

 

I'm sure there's more than few who would consider any mature, adult RP to be sick and perverse. If you are comfortable letting other people frame your boundaries, more power to you. I am not.

[CosmicKat]

I think you have two good points. Yes, those of us who've had bad experiences do tend to overgeneralize.

 

First, all slave based RP is ERP or cybersex... no, that's not true, I admit that. It's not fair. RPers are being unfairly stigmatized. I get the problem, but what's the solution? By doing blatant open ERP in public, Gamer is perpetuating that viewpoint. If she wants to stop being generalized.... how about she stops the unwanted public displays? Problem solved, right there.

 

Second: People are unfair about generalizing so that makes it OK to ERP in public

Let's clarify something here for you really simple and legal-like. this is a Teen Rated game.

 

Several things...

 

1) Nobody in this thread has ever said public displays of ERP are acceptable.

 

2) Almost all EULA-breaking "moral" infractions are, in fact, done by children.

 

3) The average of age of video-gamers is 35 years old. Only a bad parent would allow a child to play any internet-based game unsupervised.

 

4) Sane "Adult" RPers can spot a child a mile away. They are avoided like the plague. Insane ones, I don't know, they are usually PvPers... *drum roll*

Edited March 17, 2012 by Meluna

[avariambush]

Awesome job of simultaneously condemning and supporting mature, adult RP. Do as you say, not as you do? RPing to your own 'line in the sand' is righteous, beyond it is sick and perverse? Makes sense, in an elitist, clique-ish sort of way I guess.

 

The funny part is I am standing up for your right to RP mature, adult themes.

 

I'm sure there's more than few who would consider any mature, adult RP to be sick and perverse. If you are comfortable letting other people frame your boundaries, more power to you. I am not.

 

nah. there are many who like to go further than I do, more often than I do, that are still roleplayers. I actually talked about them in my first post. There are all kinds of RP'ers that are still Rp'ers. Light RP'ers, canon strict, mature, always IC, etc etc. Some report names, others are more relaxed, etc etc. I have always been for these types getting along and storytelling together.

 

The distinction comes when they are not really storytelling, they are just using the characters as vehicles to cybersex. That is my line in the sand.

[RebelWeasel]

 

The distinction comes when they are not really storytelling, they are just using the characters as vehicles to cybersex. That is my line in the sand.

Actually, I don't even mind that. I won't get between a person and their habit, even if it hurts them. I like to respect people and let them ruin their lives or be successful on their own choices, and not take their right to make those choices away from them.

 

The only part of the cybersex culture in RP that I won't support is the public display part, simply because it crosses a line that should not be crossed in a game that has underage children in it. I'm all for them doing whatever they want to do in private, because they're only hurting themselves.

[avariambush]

Can we PLEASE refrain from generalising like this? SOME slaver guilds may be wall to wall cybersex. I can't tell you which ones, because I don't know. I sincerely doubt YOU know all of these guild's activities, at least to the degree that you're willing to call them all out on a public forum.

 

If you have a specific guild in mind that is breaking the EULA by engaging in erotic roleplay in public, then by all means file a petition. But slamming the entire genre like this just makes you look like Rick Santorum trying to shut down "internet pr0n" as a campaign promise... which is to say, "OK now he's being an idiot."

 

Don't be like Santorum, lose the tarred wide brush, and stick to specifics or say nothing. Thank you.

 

If it quacks like a duck...

 

I'll say one last time.

 

There are guilds that partake in slave RP as part of a mature theme. It's not my thing, but I support their right to do that, even play with them. These or any other variation of legit RP is to be respected even if it's not your thing.

 

Then there are guilds that specifically call themselves "slave guilds" and recruit on the basis of being a "slave guild" which is what started the thread. My recommendation to people who encounter these guilds and rolled the server to RP, not cybersex is: Tell them to go **** themselves. These guilds/players are cybersexing griefers and should not be respected the way any other RP guild or player should be.

 

That's my opinion, it's crystal clear by now, and I don't expect to be answering any more posts in this thread (not really into the 45 page running in circles thing)

[avariambush]

Actually, I don't even mind that. I won't get between a person and their habit, even if it hurts them. I like to respect people and let them ruin their lives or be successful on their own choices, and not take their right to make those choices away from them.

 

The only part of the cybersex culture in RP that I won't support is the public display part, simply because it crosses a line that should not be crossed in a game that has underage children in it. I'm all for them doing whatever they want to do in private, because they're only hurting themselves.

 

One last thing I want to say is that while I wish they would leave my RP server alone in private or in public, I have never said anywhere I'm for banning them. They most certainly have a right to do what they want

[RebelWeasel]

If it quacks like a duck...

 

I'll say one last time.

 

There are guilds that partake in slave RP as part of a mature theme. It's not my thing, but I support their right to do that, even play with them. These or any other variation of legit RP is to be respected even if it's not your thing.

 

Then there are guilds that specifically call themselves "slave guilds" and recruit on the basis of being a "slave guild" which is what started the thread. My recommendation to people who encounter these guilds and rolled the server to RP, not cybersex is: Tell them to go **** themselves. These guilds/players are cybersexing griefers and should not be respected the way any other RP guild or player should be.

 

That's my opinion, it's crystal clear by now, and I don't expect to be answering any more posts in this thread (not really into the 45 page running in circles thing)

 

I read a great quote once by Chris Rock. Roughly, it went like this "Ladies, if you don't want to be treated like a [woman of loose morals] then stop dressing like one. You would be angry if you walked up to a cop and asked for help and he said I'm not a cop I'm just dressed like one. You are wearing a [woman of loose morals]'s uniform. "

 

I feel this way about slave guilds. The concept of the "slave guild" has been very clearly designated as the uniform of a cybersex guild. Like I said, 1 in 12 guilds I was in personally, was about slaves but didn't cybersex as a rule.

 

I could make this hopefully helpful suggestion. Change the core purpose of the guild. For instance, the one guild I was in that was decent did not ever advertise theirselves in recruitment as a slave guild. They were a Trandoshan guild. They did not say "we do slave RP" they said "We are a group of Trandoshan-centered players and non-trandoshan friends who partake in much of the culture of being mercenaries. These activities include fighting for display, trophy hunting, bounty hunting, and the slave trade".

 

This is what made that guild completely different from all the other so-called slave guilds. They didn't emphasize it and make it the only thing they did, which made it clear that the sexuality inherent in the slave trade wasn't their only concern. So that's what I would do, if I had a slave business guild, is I'd advertise it more based on something else, and make the slave keeping or trading part a part instead of the whole to make it more clear I wasn't one of the typical ones.

 

This not only protects a "clean" slave trade guild from being unfairly branded and generalized, it also protects that guild from attracting the sorts of people that are looking for that kind of group. Let's be honest here, the majority of people will see it as a cybersex guild, and we can't change their minds on how they perceive it. Don't blame the people who have that perception, blame the people that through their actions, made it a valid belief. If more slave guilds had behaved with a certain degree of tact and class, we'd not all be stuck with the generalization in the first place.

 

I bet lots of people here can brainstorm creative fun ways to help a non-cybersexing guild to change their core image and add other main features to concentrate on besides the slave trade only. What other things or businesses would a slave trade guild be involved in which it could emphasize for a more positive image?

[avariambush]

 

I read a great quote once by Chris Rock. Roughly, it went like this "Ladies, if you don't want to be treated like a [woman of loose morals] then stop dressing like one. You would be angry if you walked up to a cop and asked for help and he said I'm not a cop I'm just dressed like one. You are wearing a [woman of loose morals]'s uniform. "

 

I feel this way about slave guilds. The concept of the "slave guild" has been very clearly designated as the uniform of a cybersex guild. Like I said, 1 in 12 guilds I was in personally, was about slaves but didn't cybersex as a rule.

 

I could make this hopefully helpful suggestion. Change the core purpose of the guild. For instance, the one guild I was in that was decent did not ever advertise theirselves in recruitment as a slave guild.[/b] They were a Trandoshan guild. They did not say "we do slave RP" they said "We are a group of Trandoshan-centered players and non-trandoshan friends who partake in much of the culture of being mercenaries. These activities include fighting for display, trophy hunting, bounty hunting, and the slave trade".

 

This is what made that guild completely different from all the other so-called slave guilds. They didn't emphasize it and make it the only thing they did, which made it clear that the sexuality inherent in the slave trade wasn't their only concern. So that's what I would do, if I had a slave business guild, is I'd advertise it more based on something else, and make the slave keeping or trading part a part instead of the whole to make it more clear I wasn't one of the typical ones.

 

This not only protects a "clean" slave trade guild from being unfairly branded and generalized, it also protects that guild from attracting the sorts of people that are looking for that kind of group. Let's be honest here, the majority of people will see it as a cybersex guild, and we can't change their minds on how they perceive it. Don't blame the people who have that perception, blame the people that through their actions, made it a valid belief. If more slave guilds had behaved with a certain degree of tact and class, we'd not all be stuck with the generalization in the first place.

 

I bet lots of people here can brainstorm creative fun ways to help a non-cybersexing guild to change their core image and add other main features to concentrate on besides the slave trade only. What other things or businesses would a slave trade guild be involved in which it could emphasize for a more positive image?

 

Not much else to say but this. Mature guilds know how to advertise themselves accordingly and cybersexing guilds know how advertise themselves accordingly. People want to block the sun with their hand, whatever.

Edited March 18, 2012 by avariambush

[Kellindell]

Yes, spice would have been fine. Talking about a doobie, or a blunt or a roach.. not in lore. Especially the way the player was rp'ing. Besides why rp getting high if you can do that IRL. I came here to be a bounty hunter, I can be a stoner if I so choose outside of game.

 

My apologies to the OP for getting off topic. On that note sitting in the cantina and some "female slave" talking about touching her master's might saber...that's probably a dude IRL for one. Secondly if you're high enough level take that to your ship. Other games are overrun with that sort of thing. They almost all turn a blind eye to it. The question is where does it stop? "Hey baby.. that's a mighty pretty Tauntaun you got there." Things get odd fast in the world of the anonymous internet. Let's at least try to keep things within reason.

 

In response to that. I Do zero drugs in real life, never have never will. I also dont drink. So RPing being a drug addict or someone who drinks is actually a further stretch from the truth for me then RPing something else =)

 

I dont RP those things, just playing devils advocate to your point.

[Kellindell]

This is not the first time I have heard someone was told that master/apprentice or master/slave RP was a good way to "learn the ropes." I have to disagree. RP that is based on an unequal power dynamic is something that confident roleplayers should engage in -- not complete beginners.

 

The party playing the subordinate character is the one who should truly be in control of the scene, establishing limits and setting the pace and that task is not suited to players with little RP experience.

 

We don't want to compound an IC power differential by adding an OOC one on top of it -- my character tells your character what to do because I'm the master and I tell you what to do because I'm the more experienced player.

 

The system is subject to abuse by unscrupulous players.

 

 

This is possibly one of the most intelligent and well thought out posts ive ever read about RP in 10 years.

[Kellindell]

Don't be like Santorum, lose the tarred wide brush, and stick to specifics or say nothing. Thank you.

 

You sir/madam are my new hero.

[sevalaricgirl]

This is a rather interesting post. I'm on Ebon Hawk and haven't seen any slave guild but I've heard of slave play and the problem is definitely with inexperienced players getting involved with experienced players. Experienced players, you should know better since you don't know how old the person you're playing with is and young people are completely impressionable.

 

I also agree that ERP is totally acceptable in game in private party conversation. There is nothing wrong with it as long as the players are consenting adults. Again, you need to be very careful since there are impressionable young people (19/20 yr olds) playing this game. Be careful is my warning. If it goes too far, with someone who isn't mature, that person can become attached and cause issues if you decide to RP with someone else.

 

Kissing, holding hands, putting your arm around someone's waist, dancing close are ALL acceptable in public conversations even if it's two women. I'm getting tired of people I know getting razzed for that. This is 2012. Sexuality is acceptable whether it's man/woman, woman/woman or man/man. Come out of the cave into the sun.

 

Drugs or alcohol, now that's funny. Who cares? My in game character loves spicy Alderaan wine. I don't drink IRL. It's a game, loosen up.

Edited March 23, 2012 by sevalaricgirl

[KittyMehow]

Yes. Well Just it a go you never know if you never try it right? But me I like the dom/slave thing it brings more the starwars feel as it did happen like twi'leks was slave and still are, Even in one poitn of the bounty hunter

you find a acting cathar slave.

 

I not seen no slave guild on my server and I am to scared of to ask for one for reason people might just how to say fround apone it. As I dont understand why.

 

But I in the other hand do want to try the slave roleplay as Im a hardcore roleplayer. I will roleplay everylittle part of my playing time UNLESS needing to go OOC. I know my english not the best but I am not english so I still give it my best so. If you want to try and get me in a collar [RP WISE] i be on Ajunta Pall. Snowíe Jedi Sage.

[Listerman]

Slave Guilds...ah man. No this is not something that's new.

You see them crop up on role playing forums that maintain a sort of strict outlook on adult material and are often employed as a sort of service for online sex in one manner or another, usually in the kinky BDSM sort of fashion.

 

The things were, or maybe even still are, rampant on the Gaia Online forums. And if you've seen one thread, you've seen them all.

[kaelibw]

Ok. I wana know. Does anyone know of any GOOD slaver guilds on Ebon hawk? ive been trying to find one but no luck. any ideas?