Same gender relationships clarifications?

[Kioma]

Sorry to be a downer, guys. I am happy for all of you who are pleased, and I hope you continue to enjoy your time spent in STWOR. I simply can't anymore.

 

Don't be sorry, Captain. It's been good to have you. I figure the bottom line of games - any games - is that the right time to stop playing, whether temporarily or permanently, is when you're no longer enjoying it. Everyone stops enjoying things at a different threshold and for different reasons; if this is yours, then all respect to you for realising it and making the move you feel you have to.

[natashina]

Don't be sorry, Captain. It's been good to have you. I figure the bottom line of games - any games - is that the right time to stop playing, whether temporarily or permanently, is when you're no longer enjoying it. Everyone stops enjoying things at a different threshold and for different reasons; if this is yours, then all respect to you for realising it and making the move you feel you have to.

 

I love this! It's been true for many games for me over the years. Sometimes...the thrill is just gone. That being said, I hope to see you again Captain.

[Silthir]

I have come to the conclusion that the Imperial Agent needs a new OGRA and SGRA male character. Personally I don't get how a Killik Joiner can feel romantic towards someone who isn't a Joiner. (of course I haven't played through his Romance so...) Anyway. I don't think the only other male capable of a romance, Doc, would make a good idea. Could you imagine going in for a kiss and having a Rakghoul transform and infect you? (Not to mention he's kinda old...)

[Belora]

I have come to the conclusion that the Imperial Agent needs a new OGRA and SGRA male character. Personally I don't get how a Killik Joiner can feel romantic towards someone who isn't a Joiner. (of course I haven't played through his Romance so...) Anyway. I don't think the only other male capable of a romance, Doc, would make a good idea. Could you imagine going in for a kiss and having a Rakghoul transform and infect you? (Not to mention he's kinda old...)

 

Hehe. Vector aside -- Just remember, Doctor Eckard Lokin (Agent) and Doc (Jedi) are two separate characters. Poor Doc! I think he'd be rather averse despite his reputation to being called a Rakghoul

[Silthir]

Hehe. Vector aside -- Just remember, Doctor Eckard Lokin (Agent) and Doc (Jedi) are two separate characters. Poor Doc! I think he'd be rather averse despite his reputation to being called a Rakghoul

 

I haven't played a Jedi character past Courscant and I don't normally go and look up Jedi companions since I prefer lightning anyway. I didn't know there was a Doc xD

 

I dunno. lol Lokin is still kinda old. Regardless of whether or not he's a Rakghoul, his time with the Imp Agent would be severely limited. xD

[amnie]

so, worst case scenario (for me)

 

- story goes on on dec 31st (so after the world goes down )

- 'some' old companions available for sgra means the ones I'm actually interested in (Risha and Corso, mainly) probably won't make it ... well Risha maybe, since she seems like all 'I do whatever' but CORSO BETTER REALLY REALLY LIKE MY MALE SMUGGLER EVENTUALLY... or else... grrr!

[sparklecat]

So, though I am not going to complain about the information we received (it is exactly the kind of thing I was hoping for...3 months ago!) I'm still not moved to renew my subscription. I mean, sure, I'm happy with what we got, but if its going to take that amount of work every single time to get information out of them on an issue that is substantively important to the LGBT community (or any minority community, for that matter) then this is obviously not the game for me. If communication is this difficult for them now, I see absolutely no indication that they will improve on it in the future. What I really needed from them was some kind of explanation as to why on Earth it took them so long to break their silence, and lacking that, I can only assume that the next time we have a question for them, we'll be treated exactly the same way.

 

I sympathize; however, the developer who spoke seemed like he might possibly be misinformed about how much communication we actually had received; he said something about how they'd been saying "soon", and seemed to expect we already knew that this was intended to come with the new story updates. I'm not saying that such a breakdown in communication within their own company as well somehow excuses them, but it at least would make me feel a little better about what their intentions towards us have been. We are pretty soon after launch and they're working on quite a lot; I can forgive them being a little incompetent at this point, so long as there's no malice in there.

 

 

Like others have said, this is obviously a personal decision based upon whether you can still enjoy the game or not, but I thought I might offer a slightly different perspective, in case it helped.

[mrcaptainpants]

I sympathize; however, the developer who spoke seemed like he might possibly be misinformed about how much communication we actually had received; he said something about how they'd been saying "soon", and seemed to expect we already knew that this was intended to come with the new story updates. I'm not saying that such a breakdown in communication within their own company as well somehow excuses them, but it at least would make me feel a little better about what their intentions towards us have been. We are pretty soon after launch and they're working on quite a lot; I can forgive them being a little incompetent at this point, so long as there's no malice in there.

 

 

Like others have said, this is obviously a personal decision based upon whether you can still enjoy the game or not, but I thought I might offer a slightly different perspective, in case it helped.

 

The thing is, I could completely forgive a breakdown in communication... if they acknowledged that that is what it was.

 

Perhaps I seem harsh, or overly picky. Heck, maybe I am harsh and overly picky. But dammit, I believe that when a company screws something up, they should admit their mistake. If they were to do that, I'd be totally fine with giving them another chance.

 

But if they truly had no idea what was going on due to a communication breakdown, then they should be saying, "Hey folks, we screwed up, we're sorry, and we're going to do everything we can to make sure this doesn't happen again." It is the most basic concept of customer service, and they seem to act as though they are above such trivial matters.

 

Its just extremely disappointing, and it does not bode well for future interactions.

 

Sigh....

 

In any case, thank you for your kind responses, Kioma, natashina, and sparklecat.

Edited March 6, 2012 by mrcaptainpants

[sparklecat]

Yeah. Like I said, captain, I sympathize with how you're feeling... and I hope we get that explanation, too, not least because this really is too enjoyable a game to have spoiled by something which shouldn't have even been an issue in the first place.

 

 

 

I touched on this briefly last night, but I think it was lost in all the excitement; I think that, going forward, we need to be putting together a list of our immediate questions which still have implications for our ability to play our characters. Things like "should I be avoiding conversations with someone I'd want to romance if they became available, or will we get a second chance on current companions?" I think this is worth doing, both for the obvious reason that this is information we still need, if possible, and because I think the response, or lack thereof, will be informative in terms of whether this was all simply a mistake on Bioware's parts, or if they only responded at all due to the pressure we were applying, and they intend to go back to remaining silent.

 

Let me be clear - I'm very happy with the information we have, and I certainly don't expect to have a developer at our beck and call to answer whatever questions we come up with. But if we, as a group, could restrict our questions to what information we feel it is crucial that we know, explain why, and give them a reasonable amount of time to answer, or at least explain why they can't do so, before we start pushing for a response (end of April, perhaps, since hopefully 1.2 will be in and relatively ironed out by then)? I think that would have the potential to help, both with our plans and with leftover negative feelings from all this.

 

 

 

 

One of my questions which, unfortunately, I don't think they can answer is "which currently romanceable companions will become available?" Speculations aside, however, it is still one I think is fairly crucial, so I say we include it anyway; also, a response to the first question of "yes, you'll get a second chance with the SGRA NPCs" would make this one less important. The third one I'd put in is whether they'll have flirts upon meeting them, or romance-related interjections during our class story up to 50, like current OGRA companions do; at present, the possibility that this will be the case is stopping me from playing my characters.

Edited March 6, 2012 by sparklecat

[Jenovan]

I touched on this briefly last night, but I think it was lost in all the excitement; I think that, going forward, we need to be putting together a list of our immediate questions which still have implications for our ability to play our characters. Things like "should I be avoiding conversations with someone I'd want to romance if they became available, or will we get a second chance on current companions?" I think this is worth doing, both for the obvious reason that this is information we still need, if possible, and because I think the response, or lack thereof, will be informative in terms of whether this was all simply a mistake on Bioware's parts, or if they only responded at all due to the pressure we were applying, and they intend to go back to remaining silent.

 

Let me be clear - I'm very happy with the information we have, and I certainly don't expect to have a developer at our beck and call to answer whatever questions we come up with. But if we, as a group, could restrict our questions to what information we feel it is crucial that we know, explain why, and give them a reasonable amount of time to answer, or at least explain why they can't do so, before we start pushing for a response (end of April, perhaps, since hopefully 1.2 will be in and relatively ironed out by then)? I think that would have the potential to help, both with our plans and with leftover negative feelings from all this.

 

Agreed; I haven't had much chance to sit and post a logical post since last night (too much squee over finally getting an acknowledgement, then discussion with RL friends about the implications), but having a response to work with makes the idea of a new first-post or mission statement even more timely, I think.

 

In terms of organization, I think it would be handy to have, at the least,

 

I. Stuff We Already Know

- Original September quotes

- New stuff from the summit

- Other? (I'm not sure if the CS letters are still relevant after yesterday, but maybe?)

 

II. Stuff We Would Like to Know

A. Existing companions

- Which?

- Will we have a "second chance" at 50? Or if already involved in another romance? Or...? (more possibilities requiring second chances here...)

B. New companions

- For all classes? M and F?

 

and maybe

III. FAQ

 

to cover questions that newcomers ask when they wander in.

 

Thoughts? Additions? Kicks to the head?

[Silthir]

OOOH! OOH! May I please kick you in the head, just because you suggested it?

 

In all seriousness though...

 

I think it would make sense for your suggestions, well except for maybe the FAQ.

[Angel_of_Cain]

Boot to the Head:D

[Suaine]

I think "will we get a second chance/will it be integrated into the leveling process" is one of the questions he couldn't have answered last night because he quite simply didn't know. One thing I took away from the summit was that the different teams seem to work fairly independently of each other until well into the development process.

 

Now more than ever I personally feel an importance to stress the impact of the flirt opportunities during storyline progression, both for quest NPCs and the companions when they have not yet joined us. The team seem to have a fairly good idea about what they want to do with the companion romances, even if they won't tell us for reasons. But our character identity is still pretty much up in the air.

 

As much as I want my male Smuggler to have something with Corso, I'm okay with seeing what they plan for me there. I'm pretty vocal about how queer I think Corso is, but if they see him differently, then they see him differently. What's even more vital to me at this point is being able to play my alts to 50 - especially with legacy offering rewards for reaching 50! - while being able to express that they are, indeed, gay. I've mentioned before that I think the companion stories say more about the companions than they say about us.

 

I've decided to stop playing all my gay characters for now - I live in the hope that the story update will also bring the leveling experience out of the closet, especially for Smugglers and Agents. I've got a straight Jedi Knight who can tide me over for a while and maybe I'll be able to find some people for story mode operations with my Consular.

[Rein_Quest]

Sorry dumb question.

 

Why is this under Story and Lore? is it because they confirmed they will add it? I only ask because it seems like it should be under the Suggestion Box.

 

Anyhow I do support this and I think they could take a pointer from Dragon Age 2 on adaptive dialog. So the choices you pick evolve what options you get.

 

So as you pick a flirt option early on it goes > "hey this person likes so and so" > Lets unlock these options here

 

Just an example...

 

(Sorry I don't come here often, this has probably been repeated a few times)

[Silthir]

Sorry dumb question.

 

Why is this under Story and Lore? is it because they confirmed they will add it? I only ask because it seems like it should be under the Suggestion Box.

 

Anyhow I do support this and I think they could take a pointer from Dragon Age 2 on adaptive dialog. So the choices you pick evolve what options you get.

 

So as you pick a flirt option early on it goes > "hey this person likes so and so" > Lets unlock these options here

 

Just an example...

 

(Sorry I don't come here often, this has probably been repeated a few times)

 

It's under Story and Lore because SGRAs are story driven, as the Devs said yesterday. It's not under suggestions, because it has been confirmed that we will have it.

[Rein_Quest]

It's under Story and Lore because SGRAs are story driven, as the Devs said yesterday. It's not under suggestions, because it has been confirmed that we will have it.

 

Thanks, it took me a while to find this thread because it wasn't were I thought I'd find it.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Rein_Quest

[natashina]

Since this has been more formally addressed by Jenovan, I'm going to copy and paste a post I made earlier:

 

Under Stuff I'd like to know, here is some ideas for possibly implementation of romance content(both SGR and OGR) Thanks to everyone that put some tips out there!:

 

 

a) A way to "reset" companion quests so max level characters can start romancing the companions of their choice.

 

b) Pets! Perhaps a small vanity pet(such as a kitten for Vette) that has a tag that says, "Vette-For Romance Only," next to it. That way, people that wish to romance their companions are able, as well as prevent people from feeling tricked into a romance of any kind.(If you ignored the "Romance Only" text, please don't go complaining that you've been "tricked" into a romance.)

 

c) New courting gifts? I don't think Torian*, for example likes perfume, at least the way I imagine him. Perhaps some cologne, or maybe a love card . Or perhaps flowers for Mako, although I think she'd like one made from LED lights(the kind that change colors through a rainbow pattern.)

 

Any other ideas?

 

*I pictured him bi

Edited March 6, 2012 by natashina

[Silthir]

Since this has been more formally addressed by Jenovan, I'm going to copy and paste a post I made earlier:

 

Under Stuff I'd like to know, here is some ideas for possibly implementation of romance content(both SGR and OGR) Thanks to everyone that put some tips out there!:

 

 

a) A way to "reset" companion quests so max level characters can start romancing the companions of their choice.

 

b) Pets! Perhaps a small vanity pet(such as a kitten for Vette) that has a tag that says, "Vette-For Romance Only," next to it. That way, people that wish to romance their companions are able, as well as prevent people from feeling tricked into a romance of any kind.(If you ignored the "Romance Only" text, please don't go complaining that you've been "tricked" into a romance.)

 

c) New courting gifts? I don't think Torian*, for example likes perfume, at least the way I imagine him. Perhaps some cologne, or maybe a love card . Or perhaps flowers for Mako, although I think she'd like one made from LED lights(the kind that change colors through a rainbow pattern.)

 

Any other ideas?

 

*I pictured him bi

 

I hope he's bi. emoticon that wouldn't show up with a tag around it

Edited March 6, 2012 by Silthir

[Luhrsen]

While it's nice that we finally got some kind of official response it didn't actually give us much to work with. The timeline helps, but the how wasn't really covered any more than the old info we had. So I guess we just keep going the same way we have except for wondering when? Continuing to not play classes until we know how they are affected or even unsubscribing rather than pay for the rest of the year that we won't be using?

 

Also a fun video for people who support SGRA's in games.

[Suaine]

Also a fun video for people who support SGRA's in games.

 

Does that video have spoilers for the game?

[Luhrsen]

Does that video have spoilers for the game?

 

It has the leaked video for m/m romance with Kaiden.

[Silthir]

It has the leaked video for m/m romance with Kaiden.

 

M/M with Kaidan?! YAY! <3

[Suaine]

It has the leaked video for m/m romance with Kaiden.

 

On the one hand, that's pretty great, on the other just saying that is a spoiler XD

[Uluain]

One of my questions which, unfortunately, I don't think they can answer is "which currently romanceable companions will become available?"

They were quite plain yesterday that while this is obviously something they know (because it is being written, and they know who they'll need for the voice work) it is not a question they are going to answer.

 

So no, I think we need to be courteous on our end and not ask who, when plainly that is something they really want to hold in reserve and announce when this content is ready to launch.

 

They know we want to know who. They'll tell us when they want to.

 

"How" is still a viable question, in the sense of knowing "If I level my BH to 50 and progress Mako's story as far as I can and she becomes available for same-gender romance will I need to reroll to access that content?" So ask that by all means.

 

But we know a lot more today than we did last week, more than "when" certainly. We know that we will have options with existing companions and not need to wait for those we'll meet post-50. That was a wonkiing bif question mark until yesterday.

 

We know this is with the writers just now, and that they are developing the same-gender content with its own particular story arcs, not just a pronoun flip, and that the time it will take is the time it takes to be done well.

 

They even touched breifly on why they had not answered sooner - they were blindsided by the demand for the information, and then they were not sure how to respond. When they did, it was by having looked at what kinds of questions we had and answering what they could - or, in the case of which companions, what they want to reveal now.

 

So yes, let's look at what we don't yet know but would like to, but I think that this was the only big, fat info-dump we should expect until later this year when the new story content is ready for release.

 

And while I would say that out cage-rattling was certainly effective, I don't think we should necessarily continue with the same zeal. By all means, ask any questions you like in the Q&A, but I think we really can calm down a bit.

 

We have a good, meaty chunk of information. I myself will likely be asking about other things.

[Jenovan]

Ulain, that's a good caveat on the "which companions"; it's pretty clear, from what I've seen reported, that they don't intend to reveal this any time soon. It is, I think, still information that a lot of folks want to know -- but it doesn't have to be something hammered on.

 

I would agree with the couple of calls since yesterday to give the team some peace and quiet for a little while; this was some good info, and it's possible that if they're at the writing stage, they don't have a lot of the technical "how" firmly established yet. I got the impression that what they said indicates that they're aware of players' requests on this topic, though, so continuing to discuss it among ourselves seems fair game.

 

(Still dyin' for a replay of the video. Get on it, BW! )

Edited March 6, 2012 by Jenovan