Tankassin PVP

[Aviem]

Abiza, would you change your approach if you typically ran premades with 1-2 healers?

[Abiza]

OK another question that has prob been asked way too much. But gearing lawl... I've seen a video with a guy wearing 4 piece stalker and chest as a rakata force user???? Alac? And he is also using a shield and he owns peoples face even 3v1 he has damage very similar to mine but he's a shhadow and I rarely see him using thrash ... but pumping out huge dmg.

 

I don't know the guys vid, spec, or total gear composition, but a lot of the most powerful assassins right now carry a few rakata pieces once they hit a safe expertise level for the added endurance, willpower stats. Since the values are higher as they aren't sharing a space with expertise on the same piece of gear, its the better choice later down the road.

 

As for the shield thing, it's well known that I think it's a waste. Can I do well with a shield? Yes. Can I do better with a focus? Yes. With stalker gear especially, his shield rate would be so low, plus so few types of dmg in a WZ is shieldable, I can't imagine why he would use that. The logic behind it just isn't there for me. He's also kidding himself if he's using alacrity to buff FL. Even casters would rather have other secondary stats and they're stacked with it. Chances are that he's a good PvPer with great gear and some flawed ideas.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Abiza

[Abiza]

Abiza, would you change your approach if you typically ran premades with 1-2 healers?

 

I'd probably try out death field again and see. I mean, there's so many way's to view the pro's and con's of each spec. I LOVE wither in hutball. An aoe slow on everyone beating on me if I'm carrying or slowing a whole team up escorting their ball carrier is a glorious thing. At the same time, if I have reliable heals I'd rather have death field when I'm in civil war or voidstar. Not because of it's aoe ability, but when compared to wither, it inherently carries higher single target damage on whoever I may be focusing.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Abiza

[Astarica]

Why do people continue to give the wrong info with Rakata versus BM? BM and Rakata have IDENTICAL secondary stats. You'll have exactly the same amount of crit/power/surge/etc no matter what combination of these two you use. Their only difference is endurance/primary stat versus expertise.

 

I tested this yesterday, take 4 pieces of BM for Rakata and I lose 2.5% PVP modifier (700 Expertise to 500 Expertise is 12.6% to 10%). My Force Lightning tooltip went up by 2%. I gained like 500 HP which is probably 3% of my HP except 3% of your HP is nowhere close to reducing damage by 2.5% (100% more HP is much worse than reducing damage by 50%).

 

The only reason to wear Rakata is if the set bonus is good, but in the case of Assassins it's actually pretty balanced, since it's a tradeoff between Recklessness and +15% crit to Thrash is a matter of burst versus sustained. Note that Darkness builds do not use Thrash very often so it's actually pretty heavily in favor of PvP set. Deception/Madness builds might favor the PvE set more due to dependence on Thrash, but even there having 3 charges on Recklessness definitely counts for something.

[Aviem]

/subscribing

[pixelelement]

Tank gear works just fine as well. I certainly don't have any issues in 1 on 1 with any class. I have tried a 50/50, 60/40, and 70/30 split with Tank/DPS gear. They all work just fine, I admit I have not tried the full DPS, but I just don't want to give up my HP's/Healing/Shield.

 

If other people want to cool beans...Its interesting reading the comments, but the class it self is good regardless of what gear you use. Right now I use 70/30 split Tank/DPS, and still have unbuffed over 20k HP, Crit of 24%, and healing ticks from HD around 450 in WZ's.

 

Use whatever you want, and enjoy the class.

Edited March 7, 2012 by pixelelement

[mkster]

When you say darkness doesn't use thrash very often in pvp what does that even mean you need to thrash for shock procs? Am I missing something??? I have seen a pvp video of a shadow that hardly used it and still had great damage output. Lemme know thanks

[Astarica]

When you say darkness doesn't use thrash very often in pvp what does that even mean you need to thrash for shock procs? Am I missing something??? I have seen a pvp video of a shadow that hardly used it and still had great damage output. Lemme know thanks

 

The expected DPS increase from procing Energized is less than the guaranteed DPS increase from having another stack of Harnessed Darkness. Sure if you're feeling really lucky and proc 3 Shocks in a row you'll do better, but that's hardly a reliable method. Wither has a higher expected DPS than Thrash on one target since it gives an extra stack of HD every time. Between Wither, Shock, and FL you're already starved for Force, so there's no reason to use an attack that has lower expected DPS/DPF than Wither because it only lowers your overall DPS unless you get lucky.

 

The only time it makes sense to get a charge of Energized up is if you're going to use Recklessness for the burst. But you can only do that once every 75 seconds max.

[Brokor]

then why do you even spec energize to begin with if you prefer wither/simple shock instead of thrash?

 

i never liked the wither build, imo it is unintuitive as a melee pvper to stand around casting FL so i run 24/0/17.

so i spam thrash all the time and i crt for 25.k each thrash on squishy targets.

[Astarica]

then why do you even spec energize to begin with if you prefer wither/simple shock instead of thrash?

 

i never liked the wither build, imo it is unintuitive as a melee pvper to stand around casting FL so i run 24/0/17.

so i spam thrash all the time and i crt for 25.k each thrash on squishy targets.

 

Because there's almost nothing else interesting to get for 31 points into Darkness. I think for one point, having the option of going for the super Shock is a good deal. Thrash is the only attack that you can use against Force Shroud too in 31/0/10, and there are a lot of SI archtype characters out there. It's basically the same argument for getting Dark Ward in 31/0/10. You'd almost never use it in PvP but for one point it saves you the hassle of having to respec if you've to tank something in PvE.

 

31/0/10 is basically a ranged class, not melee. If you try to play it like melee, you won't do as good as it can be. Melees in this game are fundamentally disadvantged due to massive amounts of short range CC + lag. Let's say you attack Sorc and pop his bubble and it blinded you, there's no amount of skill that can prevent that except not being in melee range in the first place. While that's not to say melee is weak, why put yourself in a vulnerable situation if you can do all your damage outside melee range?

[mkster]

ok so what you are saying is just shock wither shock force lightning repeat? with an occasional thrash?

[skarr_tor]

nm Edited March 8, 2012 by skarr_tor

[Astarica]

ok so what you are saying is just shock wither shock force lightning repeat? with an occasional thrash?

 

You really shouldn't be trying to get 3 stacks of HD unless you're setting up for a burst, or you have no healer on your side so you got to take survival in your own hand. Wither -> Shock -> FL will always do the most DPS over time. If you're trying to setup a 3rd charge, then using Thrash is perfectly fine because you're trading sustained DPS for burst, so might as well go for the big boom. There's obviously value to have an energzied Shock + 3 stack HD, but usually only the strongest opponents warrant sacrificing that much sustained DPS in exchange for burst. Usually the only candidates for this kind of burst are Mercs (especially healer), other Darkness Assassins, and Marauders. Everyone else simply dies too easily to waste time setting up.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Astarica

[iiconik]

Could someone post the Darkness/Death Field build and some information regarding gearing and how to run it, or post a link to a good thread regarding this hybrid spec? I am really curious to check this out.

[Astarica]

Could someone post the Darkness/Death Field build and some information regarding gearing and how to run it, or post a link to a good thread regarding this hybrid spec? I am really curious to check this out.

 

There's really no synergy between Darkness and Death Field, so you still play like Darkness except you can also nuke people with Death Field on the side.

[TheBeezle]

Could someone post the Darkness/Death Field build and some information regarding gearing and how to run it, or post a link to a good thread regarding this hybrid spec? I am really curious to check this out.

 

This is the build that I use for pvp:

 

http://www.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sith-assassin/11/?build=022302231100023011100000000000000000000000000000000000000320030201222000000000000000

 

I use a mix of BM stalker(implants, bracers and 2 main pieces) and survivor (Ear piece, 3 main and belt) gear and stalker off hand and stalker saber.

 

The damage increase mixed with the decent HP and damage mitigation is wonderful for PvP.

 

Running this build with guild premades is great with taunts and guard. Having an instant whirlwind makes odd man fights doable and able to hold objectives until help can arrive.

 

Shock with energize combined with recklessness and a power adrenal gives you a large burst on healers. Deathfield's 30 meter range and AoE damage is another big damage increase. Combine that with electrocute, spike, jolt and your AoE knock back and you are able to control fights.

 

Let me know if you have any questions.

[adamastor]

subscribing

[mkster]

So I've been watching some pvp videos of people with 31/0/10 rarely using thrash? I've asked this earlier but what is the correct order of attacking someone to kill them? As of right now I think it would be open with wither, shock, thrash to see if you can get an auto crit shock. Electrocute pop recklessness and adrenals relics force lightning since you have 3 stacks of harnessed darkness. Repeat? Or should I go for the first force lightning without popping my CDs as a teaser in hopes they break that one instead of my next one plus so I can have more burst towards the end of the fight?

[Astarica]

So I've been watching some pvp videos of people with 31/0/10 rarely using thrash? I've asked this earlier but what is the correct order of attacking someone to kill them? As of right now I think it would be open with wither, shock, thrash to see if you can get an auto crit shock. Electrocute pop recklessness and adrenals relics force lightning since you have 3 stacks of harnessed darkness. Repeat? Or should I go for the first force lightning without popping my CDs as a teaser in hopes they break that one instead of my next one plus so I can have more burst towards the end of the fight?

 

If you've going to use Recklessness, Thrash is fine because having Energized up is helpful for burst.

 

Assuming 4 piece PvP bonus, you should do Force Lightning, Wither, and then Shock once you have 3 stacks of HD. Pop all your cooldowns and blow the other guy up. Shock has to be the last spell you cast with Recklessness because Chain Shock can consume 2 charges and that's a bad thing. If you have only 2 charges of Recklessness, do FL + Shock.

 

For normal PvP, i.e. what to do when your burst ability isn't up, you basically just use Wither/Shock whenever it's up, and then FL when neither is up. If you still have some force left over, you can do something else but you usually won't have any force left over, so there's no point to bother with Thrash. The only time you can even take advantage of an Energized Shock and immediately Shock again is if you started with 100 Force, which shouldn't happen very often in PvP. Even if Thrash procs Energized 100% of the time, you'll still be waiting for Force regen to Shock again, so there's no reason specifically try to get an Energized proc when nothing interesting is happening.

[nToxiK]

I use Discharge often in PvP however is it really worth using other than if people are grouped up or trying to stop a group from capturing an objective?

 

Should I use Discharge 1v1?

Edited March 9, 2012 by nToxiK

[Astarica]

I use Discharge often in PvP however is it really worth using other than if people are grouped up or trying to stop a group from capturing an objective?

 

Should I use Discharge 1v1?

 

For Dark Charge? It suffers from the same problem as Thrash. There are cases where it makes sense but for 31/0/10 you have 3 attacks that are better than Thrash (Shock/Wither/FL) and keeping those 3 abilities up will already strain your Force regen to the max so adding any additional complexity is potentially very harmful because you can end up missing a Shock, or worse yet miss a Wither or FL. It's situationally useful, but Wither/Shock/FL are better in 95% of the situations and unless you can quickly evaluate every siuation on the fly, it's not worth risking using it because 95% of the time you'll be worse off using it.

[Skorpeo]

Discharge is worth using in any and all cases. No its not recommended to use at first because it is a lower damage then shock or FL.

 

Dark Charge- Stikes up to 5 players dealing 1694-2733 and reduces damage by 5%. 50% (65% talented) to apply a 229 dot and 464 heal over 18 secs and increases your armor by

150%.

 

1v1- I use it after my first 3pt FL

 

AoE- Use it after wither.

 

I wouldnt put it in the gutter like thrash. In fact, probably safe to use it almost every CD if shock and FL are on CD and you have the energy to spare.

[Aviem]

Discharge is worth using in any and all cases. No its not recommended to use at first because it is a lower damage then shock or FL.

 

Dark Charge- Stikes up to 5 players dealing 1694-2733 and reduces damage by 5%. 50% (65% talented) to apply a 229 dot and 464 heal over 18 secs and increases your armor by

150%.

 

1v1- I use it after my first 3pt FL

 

AoE- Use it after wither.

 

I wouldnt put it in the gutter like thrash. In fact, probably safe to use it almost every CD if shock and FL are on CD and you have the energy to spare.

 

So are you agreeing that Thrash belongs in the trash?

 

I'm curious what some of your quick slot setups are. We have a ton of abilities, and I'm curious how everyone else is managing them.

[French-toast]

heres the best dps ive done as 23/0/17

 

http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u483/pancake1232/sinwinning.jpg

[Skorpeo]

So are you agreeing that Thrash belongs in the trash?

 

I'm curious what some of your quick slot setups are. We have a ton of abilities, and I'm curious how everyone else is managing them.

 

I wouldnt say Thrash belongs in the trash. I do have it on my hotbar. If I have close to a full force bar and I already have 3 stacks of Harness Darkness and I will pop Recklessness, do a quick Thrash, then go into FL and then use Shock in hopes that the thrash did proc Energize. I wouldnt use it if I was suffering for Force. The only other time I use Thrash is if Assassinate and Shock is on CD when the target has 1-2% life left.

 

Personally, I use 1-6, R T F G Y X C V A D, Shift + R, Shift + F with Q W E S as my movement keys with the keyboard. On my mouse, I use mouse scroll up, down, Shift + UP, Shift + Down, Mouse Middle, and Mouse Middle + Shift. R T F are all my most used abilites. My mouse wheel is used for buffs and force pull and vanish. A lot of players use the 16 button style mouses, but I personally cant. My right index finger had surgery on it from playing hockey years ago and my tendons act funny. Like when I move my index finger, my thumb will follow involuntary move with it and vise versa.