Hype-l Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) And where is your proof that people who visit the forum are a representative sample of all TOR players? Again with the lack of education showing... My post clearly stated "So far", If you need I can bypass my Top Secret Clearance to let you in on what that super James Bond code means. Also if you read on, I state "from the threads in the PVP forums", I did not say "Majority of the whole game" Edited March 1, 2012 by Hype-l Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manigma Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 All the threads on the subject in the PVP forums. You just count how many posts in each thread are for or against each. Believe me, I was expecting the opposite result given all the WoW -lovers playing this game for some reason. Yes, and how many people is that? less than 1% of the total playerbase, less than 0.5% anyway it's gonna be a small number however you look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewayshemoves Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I believe they still teach basic counting in kindergarten or even earlier now-a-days. True testament to your lack of education. It was pointed out to you that you counted up opinions, not facts, then presented as fact and used what is damn near a No True Scotsman argument to supplement it. Fact is, people have differing opinions, but it doesn't mean any of you are right. As far as my opinion on the topic goes, it really doesn't matter to me. I play swtor for what it is and whatever it becomes. I play guild wars and wow for what they are and what they have become. If they make all the ranked gear in swtor pvp simply nice shiny things with no stat upgrades, that's fine with me, because I'll still pvp for the joy of competition against someone else. If they add stats, that's fine too, because I'm decent enough that it doesn't matter whether they do it or not. I won't have too much trouble facing people with extra stats until I get mine. I did it since before they had a 50 bracket, and I don't mind doing it again. People really like to complain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceUpercutt Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) just give the top 10 on the server the best gear so only the best will have the best gear Edited March 1, 2012 by LanceUpercutt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechintel Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 People really like to complain. The only true fact in this entire thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hype-l Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) Yes, and how many people is that? less than 1% of the total playerbase, less than 0.5% anyway it's gonna be a small number however you look at it. Going to be more than that, but yes the forum users are going to be the minority in comparison to the entire game population, However, think of it as a democracy. If they are ignorant of changes and don't want to voice their opinion or data gathered, then they really have no valid complaint when things get added and are not to their liking. kind of think of it like voting for the next President. If the Majority of the population did not vote, you can't assume who they'd vote for, but you can say who the majority of the people who DID vote, voted for. Edited March 1, 2012 by Hype-l Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahhmyface Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Give it up hype, you're not even a candidate in this debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyrLXXVII Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) Because not all games rely on equality? And many of them are still fun? White always moves first in chess and is widely considered an advantage. In the game a-hole, or scum, the president exchanges his worst cards for the scum/a-hole's best. Because winning as the underdog can be fun, and lording over scrublets can be fun too? The best pvp games of all time still had progression. Daoc, for one, had realm abilities only available through points awarded from pvp kills. Did you ever play king of the hill when you were a child? You need to dispel your preconceptions about what competition is. Competition is ANYTHING. It could be a race. A race to get gear, even. But what makes -your- preconceptions of competition any better their anyone else's. Just because white moves first why does gear -need- more stats, why is winning less fun without more stats, and why can't you lord over scrublets with cool loot only you can get that don't add stats? It's all the same. You don't NEED stats, so why cant people do without them? Hell people tout about how high their valor is and its a meaningless number based more on play time then skill, rankings alone would be a huge boost for e-peens, gear or not. So is it really about the e-peen or is varies sinking hundreds of hours to get something that allows them to claim they are begets then others. Edited March 1, 2012 by MartyrLXXVII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechintel Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Going to be more than that, but yes the forum users are going to be the majority in comparison to the entire game population, However, think of it as a democracy. If they are ignorant of changes and don't want to voice their opinion or data gathered, then they really have no valid complaint when things get added and are not to their liking. kind of think of it like voting for the next President. If the Majority of the population did not vote, you can't assume who they'd vote for, but you can say who the majority of the people who DID vote, voted for. I love how you can call people uneducated in one post and then spew garbage like this in the next one. The truth is people who have something to complain about visit the forum much more frequently than people who don't. As such, the forums disproportionately represent people who are unsatisfied with the game. To fix your analogy it would be like basing who the country wants as president by taking a vote among the people at your dinner table and then presenting that statistic as legitimate fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceUpercutt Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 The only true fact in this entire thread. does that mean all the other facts are false? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechintel Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 does that mean all the other facts are false? Yes. Facts don't have to be true to be facts. They just need to be presented as true. It's a proper use of the word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hype-l Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I love how you can call people uneducated in one post and then spew garbage like this in the next one. The truth is people who have something to complain about visit the forum much more frequently than people who don't. As such, the forums disproportionately represent people who are unsatisfied with the game. To fix your analogy it would be like basing who the country wants as president by taking a vote among the people at your dinner table and then presenting that statistic as legitimate fact. Nice edit of my quote you did. Anyways, You are basically just stating that 1+1 =/= 2. So ignore block /on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahhmyface Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 But what makes -your- preconceptions of competition any better their anyone else's. Just because white moves first why does gear -need- more stats, why is winning less fun without more stats, and why can't you lord over scrublets with cool loot only you can get that don't add stats? It's all the same. You don't NEED stats, so why cant people do without them? Hell people tout about how high their valor is and its a meaningless number based more on play time then skill, rankings alone would be a huge boost for e-peens, gear or not. So is it really about the e-peen or is varies sinking hundreds of hours to get something that allows them to claim they are begets then others. Don't pretend I said something that I didn't. He asked for the reason why somebody might want gear, and I told him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechintel Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Nice edit of my quote you did. Anyways, You are basically just stating that 1+1 =/= 2. So ignore block /on Yeah that's exactly what I am stating... Thank the lord this thread has someone like you who is capable of deconstructing an argument to its core components and then concisely summarize it in a single line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skitlz Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Sorry to tell eveyrone but its OFFICIAL that rated matches will ahve different commendations than unranked ones. Different commendation would be u trade it in for a different piece of gear. Why else would they make it different if u didnt get a different reward for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cwild Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 Sorry to tell eveyrone but its OFFICIAL that rated matches will ahve different commendations than unranked ones. Different commendation would be u trade it in for a different piece of gear. Why else would they make it different if u didnt get a different reward for it. no ****.....this whole discussion is will the reward have upgraded stats or be cosmetic for epeen stroking. thank you for being so informative. good god Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevvy Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 you say that like pvp in MMO's has ever been different. its always been gear driven. thats the nature of an MMORPG's if you dont like how this works, there are plenty of fps games out there for you to play where everyone has exactly the same set up and its down to whos quickest and most accurate etc to win. MMORPG's are gear driven. i have no interest whatsoever in fluff items, and thats why imo gear upgrades are a must to keep interest. It has been. The problem is that PvP is now treated like PvE. Instanced grinds for gear. There is nothing unique about it, nothing that gives it any meaning. No penalties, no risks, material rewards. All that matters is grinding out PvP to get valor ranks and quests for bags. And all of that is because their little studies show that the carrot dangling for gear keeps people addicted and paying. I enjoy playing with my friends and against opponents that I build rivalries with. Gear is just a perk for me. If you got nothing out of killing other players, I'd still do it every time I logged in. I think it's terrible. But it is what it is. I don't blame anyone for it. Though I wish that people that poured their heart and soul into their games would come up with some ingenuity in PvP rather than the same old crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechintel Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) It has been. The problem is that PvP is now treated like PvE. Instanced grinds for gear. There is nothing unique about it, nothing that gives it any meaning. No penalties, no risks, material rewards. All that matters is grinding out PvP to get valor ranks and quests for bags. And all of that is because their little studies show that the carrot dangling for gear keeps people addicted and paying. I enjoy playing with my friends and against opponents that I build rivalries with. Gear is just a perk for me. If you got nothing out of killing other players, I'd still do it every time I logged in. I think it's terrible. But it is what it is. I don't blame anyone for it. Though I wish that people that poured their heart and soul into their games would come up with some ingenuity in PvP rather than the same old crap. While I agree with this as a whole, I do not feel that making it so that rated warzones don't give better gear is a solution. The way mmos worked in the past, if you died you lost gear and the person(s) who killed you would then take that gear. It was feasible (in the past) to be killed by someone MUCH stronger than you and you didn't just have to deal with running back to your corpse or quest in a new area, but you had to deal with getting your gear back. If you go back even farther into the past in the day of MUDs, when you died you had to reroll a whole new character. In conclusion, stop ************ about the game being unfair because of gear. The game is entirely fair. You have every opportunity to get gear as anyone else has, and if someone kills you who has more gear than you nothing is hurt except your pride. Stop the entitlement argument that you should have the same damage,healing, tanking capabilities 5 seconds after turning 50 as someone who has been 50 for 3 months. Or else why even have leveling or gear or classes in the game at all. Everyone can just be the same stock character with the same spells and stats. After all we don't want to set up a situation where one class has an advantage over any other class Edited March 1, 2012 by mechintel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skitlz Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 no ****.....this whole discussion is will the reward have upgraded stats or be cosmetic for epeen stroking. thank you for being so informative. good god Why start a discussion as a question, that hasnt been answered. I can almost gurantee u it will be more than cosmetic. Doing Hardmodes doesnt give u only cosmetic increases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cwild Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 Why start a discussion as a question, that hasnt been answered. I can almost gurantee u it will be more than cosmetic. Doing Hardmodes doesnt give u only cosmetic increases. I'm pretty sure it will be more then cosmetic also...however i'm bored at work and wanted people to discuss this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevvy Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) While I agree with this as a whole, I do not feel that making it so that rated warzones don't give better gear is a solution. The way mmos worked in the past, if you died you lost gear and the person(s) who killed you would then take that gear. It was feasible (in the past) to be killed by someone MUCH stronger than you and you didn't just have to deal with running back to your corpse or quest in a new area, but you had to deal with getting your gear back. If you go back even farther into the past in the day of MUDs, when you died you had to reroll a whole new character. In conclusion, stop ************ about the game being unfair because of gear. The game is entirely fair. You have every opportunity to get gear as anyone else has, and if someone kills you who has more gear than you nothing is hurt except your pride. Stop the entitlement argument that you should have the same damage,healing, tanking capabilities 5 seconds after turning 50 as someone who has been 50 for 3 months. Or else why even have leveling or gear or classes in the game at all. Everyone can just be the same stock character with the same spells and stats. After all we don't want to set up a situation where one class has an advantage over any other class I have no issue getting gear. I don't want anyone to ever think my viewpoint is a way to get around the fact that I don't put in the effort to get gear. I do. I'm always geared. I just like how stuff used to be. And with the new patch killing Ilum, this game is going to be WoW in space, for real. No reason to leave the fleet whatsoever. Just sit in queues while tabbed out of game. Edited March 1, 2012 by Sevvy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hype-l Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I'm pretty sure it will be more then cosmetic also...however i'm bored at work and wanted people to discuss this. You also forgot " I'm also pretty sure this game is going to be F2P with less then a dozen servers in 6-12 months" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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