Unofficial server forums

[DuchessOfKvetch]

Let me give you an example, from another MMO (that will remain unnamed, but the title is unimportant). We had a forum for each server there, from the get-go. They were very popular, but since our server had a mix of pvpers, raiders, rpers, and casual players, the forum quickly became overrun with everyone trying to speak at once, and keep THEIR thread on the front page.

 

In the interim, several off-site forums popped up, to satisfy various needs. Some died, some flourished, some were reborn... and the "official" forum, while it remained as a "first stop" for people new to the server, was rarely where people stuck around, due to the high clutter and lack of specificity.

 

On top of that, the forums lack some of the other content desired by players - such as calendars, art, fanfic, social plugins, etc... well, because they're just "forums".

 

More traffic to the RP servers is a GOOD thing, but I'd be just as happy if the "server forums" were just a single post containing external links to the fan-community sites.

Edited January 12, 2012 by DuchessOfKvetch

[oredith]

Let me give you an example, from another MMO (that will remain unnamed, but the title is unimportant). We had a forum for each server there, from the get-go. They were very popular, but since our server had a mix of pvpers, raiders, rpers, and casual players, the forum quickly became overrun with everyone trying to speak at once, and keep THEIR thread on the front page.

 

In the interim, several off-site forums popped up, to satisfy various needs. Some died, some flourished, some were reborn... and the "official" forum, while it remained as a "first stop" for people new to the server, was rarely where people stuck around, due to the high clutter and lack of specificity.

 

On top of that, the forums lack some of the other content desired by players - such as calendars, art, fanfic, social plugins, etc... well, because they're just "forums".

 

More traffic to the RP servers is a GOOD thing, but I'd be just as happy if the "server forums" were just a single post containing external links to the fan-community sites.

that's all fine and dandy, and i have NOTHING against what you say.

 

however, what you're describing is a set of player driven forum expansion that had a foundation (the server forum). without which, they would have never existed in the first place. how would the pvp'er have known that there's a community of people on their server who are passionate enough about pvp to sustain their own forum? RP? etc.

[oredith]

More traffic to the RP servers is a GOOD thing, but I'd be just as happy if the "server forums" were just a single post containing external links to the fan-community sites.

and I would agree, IF bioware see fit to link ONE site as their fan community site

 

but instead, they stickied a post that lists 101 sites and growing every day. due to the lack of focus, they're all failing (i guess it depends on your definition of the word, but in my definition, not having 100+ threads on The Harbinger alone, is failing)

[Jeffor]

i don't understand why people think this.

 

it's literally taking water out of the lake, walking around the lake, and dumping it in the other side, and claiming that you're filling up the lake.

 

the trolls are already there, adding server forums won't ADD trolls, if anything, it'll dilute the trolls.

 

how will adding server forums add traffic? people are posting to general forums instead of server forums because they can't find the information they need.

 

Exactly. The reason that many of us want server forums is so we can avoid the rest of the forum and its multitude of trolls. It's amazing how some people will blindly support a company on anything.

 

Regarding unofficial server forums. OK they are out there but, out of the 1000 people advertising their unofficial forums, which ones are we supposed to choose? I looked at a few and none seemed to have much traffic. I appreciate the effort but we need an official place to gather, recruit, organize and get to know each other.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Jeffor

[DuchessOfKvetch]

How is being a little "meh" on something blind support?

 

I think that with the RP communities our needs are a bit different. We need more than a place to discuss game mechanics; we need a way to post and share social interfaces, art and fiction. I think I'm more saying that a single per-server forum will not do -enough- for the RP servers when it comes to inspiring the more creative folks.

 

I'd certainly welcome an Ebon Hawk forum on here, certainly, but we'd still need another thread to advertise the external sites anyway.

 

Even SWTOR-RP.com, which is using the Enjin engine (ha), is more aimed at guilds/raiding/pvp, and lacks features for artists and writers.

 

Until we can get a golden bullet - a website that does EVERYTHING - there's going to be some dilution.

[oredith]

Until we can get a golden bullet - a website that does EVERYTHING - there's going to be some dilution.

specialization is fine, and honestly, expected.

 

sites like elitist-jerks grew from the official forums.

 

the point is, without a starting point, it's hard to have offsprings.

[Garricus]

Blackvulkars now has a unofficial server forum if you can add it to the list.

 

http://www.blackvulkars.com

[lenzio]

The fatman has a 2nd fourm that has a lot less fourm rooms and has a open un-moded room for pvp trash talk

 

 

http://thefatmanswtor.com/

[songofprecept]

Progentior Server Forums - Promote them in /general please!

 

http://www.swtorowned.com/progenitor/

[caxt]

Prophecy of the Five server forums - http://www.prophecyofthefive.net

 

Thanks

[Vandrel-Blitz]

This is where Bioware should refund specific customers any/all associated costs they have taken-on in order to create/provide server forums.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=173672

 

 

 

Bioware failed at launch to provide server forums, then they expected customers to pay for their own server forums. Now they are turning back and trying to save face on a terrible decision.

 

All of you who have paid out-of-pocket expenses to create server forums should demand a refund (expense reimbursement).

[AceWasabi]

http://www.daragontrail.com should be up and running in a couple of days. I'll update when they open up.

 

Thanks for listing these, much appreciated.

[AceWasabi]

http://www.daragontrail.com should be up and running in a couple of days. I'll update when they open up.

 

Thanks for listing these, much appreciated.

[Amonette]

While I can see why you are annoyed that there are no server forums I think you're missing a couple of things here.

 

I started the SWGirls forum in September, and after the first month it had only about 40 accounts on it. It now has over 300 and has grown past the point where I can hope to keep up with the new posts every day - thank goodness for moderators!

 

Yes, it took some time and work to get started. You can't just start a forum and expect it to magically explode over night - you have to post starter threads that are easy to respond to and get people talking, start linking as much useful info as you can to give people a reason to visit, advertise of your forum sig, in your guild MOTD, advertise by shouting out in world and by asking other guild leaders to put the site in their MOTD. It takes WORK.

 

However it really pays off. The forum you end up with is user controlled and far nicer than ones provided by BioWare. We have only had two troll attacks in four months. We've had a couple of debates that got a tiny bit heated but people still remained respectful towards each other and the kind of abuse, rudeness and general whining that you see on this forum has completely passed us by. There is no sexism, racism, homophobia and we intend to keep it that way. Even better, we don't have to suffer pedantic moderators who arbitrarily decide what is on topic and what isn't, we don't have any threads that no longer make sense because some overzealous mods have cut out half the posts and we can talk about whatever we want to (except guild recruitment lol).

 

In conclusion yes it takes a lot of work and dedication to make a forum work but it is so worth it. Server forums provided by BioWare will never have the potential to be as good as user run forums that are controlled by people who actually care about the game.

 

Take my advice, take this energy you are throwing into demanding something that would be mediocre at best anyway and put some of this energy into supporting server forums. I don't want to see BioWare-provided server forums - they would be as full of trolls and idiots as most of the rest of this site. Most of the good people have already stopped coming here.

[Amonette]

Also has anyone started one for Rogue Moon? Can't see one.

[SeanTNL]

Okay so this might be the wrong place for this question but I've noticed that there's "unofficial" servers for languages and such. Is there a server with a large UK/Ireland population? The reason I'm asking is because the server I'm currently playing on (Ahto City) seems primarily Hungarian and from what I've been told, an unofficial hungarian server on WoW have started rolling up on it, which is fine, I'm okay with people playing where they want it's just that regularly General chat gets filled up with incomprehensible language, at least to me, on an English speaking server. Also time differences and such are potentially problematic when looking for a operating guild later down the line. So any British players have suggestions for where to roll? I'm not familiar with the forums or the community so I'm not sure if I'm missing readily available information right in front of me that could point me in where to go. PvP server preferably.

[Amonette]

We had the same issue on Red Eclipse (Spanish/ Russian/ Dutch) and moved to Rogue Moon to avoid the server queues. It seems to be pretty much English speaking.

[Vandrel-Blitz]

While I can see why you are annoyed that there are no server forums I think you're missing a couple of things here.

 

I started the SWGirls forum in September, and after the first month it had only about 40 accounts on it. It now has over 300 and has grown past the point where I can hope to keep up with the new posts every day - thank goodness for moderators!

 

Yes, it took some time and work to get started. You can't just start a forum and expect it to magically explode over night - you have to post starter threads that are easy to respond to and get people talking, start linking as much useful info as you can to give people a reason to visit, advertise of your forum sig, in your guild MOTD, advertise by shouting out in world and by asking other guild leaders to put the site in their MOTD. It takes WORK.

 

However it really pays off. The forum you end up with is user controlled and far nicer than ones provided by BioWare. We have only had two troll attacks in four months. We've had a couple of debates that got a tiny bit heated but people still remained respectful towards each other and the kind of abuse, rudeness and general whining that you see on this forum has completely passed us by. There is no sexism, racism, homophobia and we intend to keep it that way. Even better, we don't have to suffer pedantic moderators who arbitrarily decide what is on topic and what isn't, we don't have any threads that no longer make sense because some overzealous mods have cut out half the posts and we can talk about whatever we want to (except guild recruitment lol).

 

In conclusion yes it takes a lot of work and dedication to make a forum work but it is so worth it. Server forums provided by BioWare will never have the potential to be as good as user run forums that are controlled by people who actually care about the game.

 

Take my advice, take this energy you are throwing into demanding something that would be mediocre at best anyway and put some of this energy into supporting server forums. I don't want to see BioWare-provided server forums - they would be as full of trolls and idiots as most of the rest of this site. Most of the good people have already stopped coming here.

 

Trust me, I understand your position. I run a handful of nation-wide forums that carry thousands of members and hold large annual events (in real life).

 

But I think you may have missed the announcement where Bioware is giving server forums to us now, but in a very unorganized and lazy fashion.

 

I am not trying to recoupe any funds for myself, I didn't start a server forum. I am looking out for all of you who did start a server forum, due to Bioware's lack there of and official statement that they are not providing server forums, only later to find that Bioware realized their mistake and decided to do the opposite.

 

I know the challenges behind creating a community, I've created handfuls of them from scratch over the years. The problem here is in the very soul of the issue that Bioware created a burden on their customers and "should", in my opinion, compensate those customers who have racked up out-of-pocket expenses to fill the gap Bioware created.

 

Am I saying Bioware has a legal obligationt to do this? Of course not, if you note my employment title in my profile you'll know I'm a little more savvy then that. What I am saying is it's simply piss poor business on Bioware's part for creating this mess, yes it is a mess.

 

Several members on here have created sites to provide "all" server forums, which is fine and dandy until Bioware see's that they were indeed wrong in their decision and are now trying to make good. Those afore mentioned members/customers have spent anywhere from $25 to $300, and in some cases more. I think it's absolutely wrong of Bioware to ignore this fact and not compensate those customers.

 

I will go out on a limb here and say that I don't expect Bioware to shell out hard-checks to everyone involved but it would be nice to see those upstanding customers receive some game-time credit.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Vandrel-Blitz

[Amonette]

 

But I think you may have missed the announcement where Bioware is giving server forums to us now, but in a very unorganized and lazy fashion.

 

Lol actually I wrote an article on it

 

I think the server group forums are a better idea than individual server ones. They allow for more info sharing over same type servers and they allow the top guilds on each one (non RP obviously) to compete against each other for boss kills and server firsts. I still don't think BioWare are under any obligation to provide server forums - oon the contraty I don;t think they should. Most of them end up with a few people who like the shound of their own voice and a load of trolls, plus the usual recruitment threads. I appreciate that I don't appreciate teh RP perspective though.

[Vandrel-Blitz]

Lol actually I wrote an article on it

 

I think the server group forums are a better idea than individual server ones. They allow for more info sharing over same type servers and they allow the top guilds on each one (non RP obviously) to compete against each other for boss kills and server firsts.

 

I disagree. Very little info can be shared between servers. No matter how you look at things, every server is unique. Economies differ, guilds differ, players differ, PvP differs. No two servers are the same, and thus it makes no sense to group them together.

 

Player "A" on in Guild "F" on Server "H" doesn't care nor do they want to be bothered with having to read topics regarding PvP, Looting, Farming, GTN prices, Guild Recruitments, etc. from Player "B", "C", and "D" from Guilds "R", "S", and "T" on server "E".

 

Furthermore, we are not just talking about two servers here, we are talking about a handful since they are wanting to group in alphabeticall order. Just because you are tossing 5 PVE servers together in one forum doesn't mean it's more efficient, it simply means players on those servers have to be troubled with searching through endless pages of stuff that doesn't pertain to their server.

 

The same problem exists right now in the Guild Hall forum section, just on a larger scale. All they are doing is taking a turd and polishing it more.

 

The Guild Hall has failed in it's current state. They already acknowledged that in this thread. Additonally, they are correcting the matter by applying the same concept to server forums. That doesn't really make much sense to do now does it?

Edited January 16, 2012 by Vandrel-Blitz

[Amonette]

I disagree. Very little info can be shared between servers. No matter how you look at things, every server is unique. Economies differ, guilds differ, players differ, PvP differs. No two servers are the same, and thus it makes no sense to group them together.

 

Player "A" on in Guild "F" on Server "H" doesn't care nor do they want to be bothered with having to read topics regarding PvP, Looting, Farming, GTN prices, Guild Recruitments, etc. from Player "B", "C", and "D" from Guilds "R", "S", and "T" on server "E".

 

Furthermore, we are not just talking about two servers here, we are talking about a handful since they are wanting to group in alphabeticall order. Just because you are tossing 5 PVE servers together in one forum doesn't mean it's more efficient, it simply means players on those servers have to be troubled with searching through endless pages of stuff that doesn't pertain to their server.

 

The same problem exists right now in the Guild Hall forum section, just on a larger scale. All they are doing is taking a turd and polishing it more.

 

The Guild Hall has failed in it's current state. They already acknowledged that in this thread. Additonally, they are correcting the matter by applying the same concept to server forums. That doesn't really make much sense to do now does it?

 

You do make a good point, however I still think it will be useful for PVE players. Yes the guild hall is a mess but that's because they didn't bother moderating it - pre launch it was one of the better forums.

[Vandrel-Blitz]

You do make a good point, however I still think it will be useful for PVE players. Yes the guild hall is a mess but that's because they didn't bother moderating it - pre launch it was one of the better forums.

 

Pre-launch had far less servers and players.

 

The Guild Hall is a mess due to the over population problem and lack of organization. No matter how much moderation is done it's still a disaster when trying to sort through endless amounts of pages to locate the one for your server.

[Amonette]

Pre-launch had far less servers and players.

 

The Guild Hall is a mess due to the over population problem and lack of organization. No matter how much moderation is done it's still a disaster when trying to sort through endless amounts of pages to locate the one for your server.

 

True. I really do think that community organised servers would be nicer places though, and for PVE group forums can add some value. TBH I think BioWare should have realised it wouldbe less hassle to add them in the first place

[DuchessOfKvetch]

Hell, since most of us do a better job handling customized server needs on our own, I'd just be happy to have a big STICKY at the top of each server forum that says "Go here for the various community-run sites".

 

People will check the Bioware forums first - because they don't know where else to go - but it will rarely be the last place they need to check to get what they want (And rpers also like to post art, fanfic, etc...).

[Vandrel-Blitz]

True. I really do think that community organised servers would be nicer places though, and for PVE group forums can add some value. TBH I think BioWare should have realised it wouldbe less hassle to add them in the first place

 

 

I would much rather visit a community-owned site then a corporate-owned site any day. The only issue is that company products in this case generally always carry the bulk to traffic and the little guy (community site) has to fight to stay afloat.

 

If there was some form of endorsement from Bioware with adverisement then it'd probably help the situation for the little guy but I just don't see that happening.

 

It woud greatly increase marketing and advertisement for the game overall if Bioware was to, for example, place community-run ads on the forums here. Much like seen in a wide rage of other social and community forums these days. They help generae revenue and also further expand the community.

 

For the time being I would rather see this MMO get individual server forums then getting treated like a 3rd rate citizen from a 3rd world country.

 

It's no secret that Bioware support is non-existant, nearly takes a week to generate a response from them....even in the case of tickets. My company carries a 24-48 hour policey for general inquires, someone would be fired if they waited a week to respond. A little improvement in their communications would go a long way to foster this growing community.