Wish you could change advanced classes, great idea!

[MajikMyst]

2 of these posts in one day?

 

Seriously Bioware already has a firm NO on this. Can't y'all read the dev tracker?

 

I 3rd this..

 

No to AC switching.. Either research more, or roll another character..

[Costantino]

I 3rd this..

 

No to AC switching.. Either research more, or roll another character..

 

this^

 

It's not hard to level in this game.

[chaosdefined]

The problem we have with it, is that it's not that you get to level 10 and then go "Actually I don't like this..." you have to play for a good while first.

 

So say you get to level 20 or 30. That's more than a couple of hours gametime, that's a couple of weeks or so of casual play. Then you decide you don't like your AC. You don't want to start from the beginning again and repeat all the exact same things for two weeks.

 

You choose your AC at a really awkward stage. At least give us the choice at level 50 if we want to stay as that or change just once.

 

As for the argument about just go make an alt or replay the same levels again. The problem there is, we have different definitions of what is fun.

 

I love creating Alts, but completely different alts. So perhaps opposite factions or that. That's what I find fun, not rerolling the same class and repeating everything I just did for the last two weeks because I want to play the other AC.

 

Besides, just because Bioware says no now, doesn't mean they won't change their mind if say the game ends up dropping 20% of it's subs due to a few issues like this.

Edited March 1, 2012 by chaosdefined

[MajikMyst]

The problem we have with it, is that it's not that you get to level 10 and then go "Actually I don't like this..." you have to play for a good while first.

 

So say you get to level 20 or 30. That's more than a couple of hours gametime, that's a couple of weeks or so of casual play. Then you decide you don't like your AC. You don't want to start from the beginning again and repeat all the exact same things for two weeks.

 

You choose your AC at a really awkward stage. At least give us the choice at level 50 if we want to stay as that or change just once.

 

As for the argument about just go make an alt or replay the same levels again. The problem there is, we have different definitions of what is fun.

 

I love creating Alts, but completely different alts. So perhaps opposite factions or that. That's what I find fun, not rerolling the same class and repeating everything I just did for the last two weeks because I want to play the other AC.

 

Besides, just because Bioware says no now, doesn't mean they won't change their mind if say the game ends up dropping 20% of it's subs due to a few issues like this.

 

How is that different than any other game?? How much do you think you know about playing a Warlock in WOW at lvl 10??

 

The problem is, your arguement is simply a reality of any game.. You don't like the play style of something then you have to create a new character.. What is wrong with that??

 

So you get to lvl 30 and decide you don't like it.. Oh well.. Roll again.. That is no reason to allow a class change.. I played a Shaman on WOW until I was about 32 or something.. I couldn't stand the totem mechanic.. I hated having to drop totems all the time.. Why didn't WOW allow me to change to a Druid or something?? Perhaps a mage??

 

It is called trial and error.. There is no reason to allow people to change their classes.. You want to change your class.. Re-roll..

 

Repeating quests is also not a reason.. Ever heard of dailies?? If you don't like repeating quests.. Perhaps you should rethink playing an MMO.. I do the space mission every day.. Over 100k in credits for just over an hours worth of work.. Just from doing space missions.. There are countless reasons to do missions over again.. Still not a reason to allow a class change..

 

I can remember having 4 80's in WOW and having to do dailies on all of them.. That is life in an MMO.. You are going to repeat a quest here and there.. That is just the reality of it..

Edited March 1, 2012 by MajikMyst

[chaosdefined]

How is that different than any other game?? How much do you think you know about playing a Warlock in WOW at lvl 10??

 

Your argument there is invalid because as everyone knows, you spend 1-85 levelling a class in WoW playing it one way, then at 85 it's played completely different.

 

Also having to constantly repeat the same content is one of the main reasons people began to leave games like WoW.

 

Anyway, you were arguing that Dual-Speccing is what caused WoW to die, so I can't really take anything you say seriously.

Edited March 1, 2012 by chaosdefined

[twinionx]

Actually yes they will.

 

The very idea that people won't have use this system is BS and has been shown to be BS from the first time it came up.

 

People will always be expected to play the FotM class, and if you can change AC's you'll be expected to change your AC to what ever the FotM is.

 

If there is such a thing as FoTM, Bioware would have FAILED in their class design in the first place. AC respec should be the last of your worries.

[twinionx]

Wise up to what? Something the bulk of the vocal playerbase has indicated they don't want? Or wise up to an unnecessary demand made by a vocal minority that don't want to be bothered to replay a few hours of gametime?

 

You realize we're arguing about 10 levels of gameplay here? Move class choice to level 1 instead of level 10 and 95% of the people who want the change go away. This means that the vast majority of your vocal minority are purely complaining about TEN LEVELS of gameplay.

 

No. YOU think that it is 10 levels of gameplay. This shows your POOR understanding of why players want AC Respec. Like it was mentioned a million times, some players did not get a feel of their AC until well into level 30+. By then, they have sunk in 30-50 hours worth of gameplay.

 

The fact you think it is just 10 levels showed you have no idea why people ask for AC respec and opposing just for the sake of opposing.

[twinionx]

Two million people have already bought the game, I think they can afford to lose those who don't feel like making another character when their first one doesn't work out. There's only so much handholding you can do.

 

If Bioware devs think like you do, then they are indeed hopeless.

 

Lucky you are not a dev.

 

No business owner will complain about TOO MANY customers. Every business owner only concern about losing customers.

 

While having AC respec will not make anti-AC respec players quit, not having it will eventually drive those who desire it to quit.

[Coyotecalls]

I think you should be able to change AC at least ONCE because most of these classes you can't really get a feel for until you are on your 30's or 40's when you get your key abilities.

 

Forcing people to make an irreversible choice at ten is kinda stupid.

[chaosdefined]

 

While having AC respec will not make anti-AC respec players quit, not having it will eventually drive those who desire it to quit.

 

A brilliant point.

 

Those who are against it, are not opposing it because it will actually effect them despite claims. it will not ruin the game for them or destroy their experience. Therefore introducing it will not force them to quit out of annoyances.

 

Whereas those who do want it and do feel it's a quality of enjoyment change, will actually quit out of annoyance and boredom.

 

Not everyone finds fun in repeatedly doing the same thing for weeks.

[twinionx]

How is that different than any other game?? How much do you think you know about playing a Warlock in WOW at lvl 10??

 

The problem is, your arguement is simply a reality of any game.. You don't like the play style of something then you have to create a new character.. What is wrong with that??

 

So you get to lvl 30 and decide you don't like it.. Oh well.. Roll again.. That is no reason to allow a class change.. I played a Shaman on WOW until I was about 32 or something.. I couldn't stand the totem mechanic.. I hated having to drop totems all the time.. Why didn't WOW allow me to change to a Druid or something?? Perhaps a mage??

 

It is called trial and error.. There is no reason to allow people to change their classes.. You want to change your class.. Re-roll..

 

Repeating quests is also not a reason.. Ever heard of dailies?? If you don't like repeating quests.. Perhaps you should rethink playing an MMO.. I do the space mission every day.. Over 100k in credits for just over an hours worth of work.. Just from doing space missions.. There are countless reasons to do missions over again.. Still not a reason to allow a class change..

 

I can remember having 4 80's in WOW and having to do dailies on all of them.. That is life in an MMO.. You are going to repeat a quest here and there.. That is just the reality of it..

 

I already mentioned, the concept of warrior, mage and rogues are fairly well known in a typical fantasy RPG.

 

What the heck is an INQUISTOR? The historical definition is that he is a religious police rooting out heretics and is closer to the warhammer witch hunter class concept than this lightsaber wielding sith.

 

What is a sage? Isn't he a philisopher or a teacher? Like confucius? Why is he thrown hadoken?

 

Players do not know all these new class definition in SWTOR. So they have to be given SOME chance to undo their mistakes which they made after only playing for few classes.

 

Why is ADVANCE class chosen at level 10? Shouldn't it be chosen at level 40 instead?

[chaosdefined]

Plus you mention doing research first on the class.

 

How are we to do that? Go on the website to look at the classes and you're not given much at all. Three videos showing three basic abilities and a nice little story about the AC's without any actual detail of what they do.

 

There's a huge difference between watching videos on youtube of how a class plays, to actually experiencing it for yourself.

[twinionx]

A brilliant point.

 

Those who are against it, are not opposing it because it will actually effect them despite claims. it will not ruin the game for them or destroy their experience. Therefore introducing it will not force them to quit out of annoyances.

 

Whereas those who do want it and do feel it's a quality of enjoyment change, will actually quit out of annoyance and boredom.

 

Not everyone finds fun in repeatedly doing the same thing for weeks.

 

Those who oppose it are simply IGNORANT of the issues faced by those who requests for it. All I hear are :

 

1.) Re-roll another character?

 

I have TEN ALTS and I have every wish to level them all to 50. And I still request that we have AC respec for the good of the community.

 

As someone who is a heavy "alt-ism" player, I don't recommend players to roll an alt because he made a mistake. By all means, roll an alt because you find it FUN. Roll an alt because you want to experience new stories. But don't roll an alt because you were FORCED to. Eventually, you will be resentful, burn out and quit.

 

2.) SWTOR has millions of players, we don't need the whiners?

 

SWTOR is not so big yet that it cannot fail. We need all the players we can attract.

 

3.) WoW (or other MMO/games) don't have it, why should SWTOR?

 

Wow didn't have AC either, duh! WoW didn't have class story either, duh! Wow didn't have companions either, double duh!

 

Other games don't have X, does not means SWTOR cannot have X. Otherwise, SWTOR should not have lightsabers since no other games have lightsabers as well.

 

Geez, as if MMOs are not allowed to innovate.

 

Any other lame excuses not to have AC-respec?

 

Oh yeah.

 

4.) Having AC-respec will doom SWTOR and cause end of the world!!!

 

Yeah right....

 

 

Oh one more...

 

5.) Because the dev said it!

 

LOL...and the dev are perfect beings incapable of making mistakes? Geez, then they better don't change any abilities and fix any bugs.

 

Because, yes, current AC design is BUGGY. They need to fix the design BUG/FLAW.

Edited March 1, 2012 by twinionx

[chaosdefined]

Couldn't agree more.

 

Perhaps if there were more variety to the levelling process it wouldn't be so unappealing to players. I mean repeating the same class quests is one thing, they're not a huge part of the levelling. But it's the fact as anyone on the same faction you have to go to the same planets and do the same missions whilst levelling.

There's no choice in it, you can't say "Well last time I went to X planet at this level, so this time I'll go to Y planet." like you can with other MMO's.

 

There's too little freedom of choice in this game.

[twinionx]

Couldn't agree more.

 

Perhaps if there were more variety to the levelling process it wouldn't be so unappealing to players. I mean repeating the same class quests is one thing, they're not a huge part of the levelling. But it's the fact as anyone on the same faction you have to go to the same planets and do the same missions whilst levelling.

There's no choice in it, you can't say "Well last time I went to X planet at this level, so this time I'll go to Y planet." like you can with other MMO's.

 

There's too little freedom of choice in this game.

 

From game design perspective, Bioware can fix this two ways.

 

A.) Re-design advance class

 

1.) Officially breaks down the "advance" class to 8 classes and let players choose from level 1.

2.) 8 classes means 8 different primary stats

3.) 16 different class story (8 classes x 2 for both factions)

4.) 16 different sets of companions

5.) 16 sets of armor designs

6.) 8 sets of abilities unique to the 8 classes (mirrored on the other side)

7.) 3 sets of skill tree per class (total 8 x 3 = 24 skill trees, mirrored on the other side)

 

OR

 

B.) Allow AC respec.

 

I think asking for AC-respec is VERY reasonable...

 

Bioware should count themselves fortunate we did not ask for (A).

[Bielduwyn]

I already mentioned, the concept of warrior, mage and rogues are fairly well known in a typical fantasy RPG.

 

What the heck is an INQUISTOR? The historical definition is that he is a religious police rooting out heretics and is closer to the warhammer witch hunter class concept than this lightsaber wielding sith.

 

What is a sage? Isn't he a philisopher or a teacher? Like confucius? Why is he thrown hadoken?

 

Players do not know all these new class definition in SWTOR. So they have to be given SOME chance to undo their mistakes which they made after only playing for few classes.

 

Why is ADVANCE class chosen at level 10? Shouldn't it be chosen at level 40 instead?

So you basically admit to being incapable of reading all the information the game provides when picking the class? They even tell you right there what the advanced classes will be capable of doing.

 

If you don't know what your class does you simply didn't pay attention to the character creation screen. And didn't start paying attention by the time you got to pick your AC.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Bielduwyn

[ArtMonster]

my vote is also 'no' to adv. class switching.

[VanorDM]

A.) Re-design advance class

 

Nothing on that list really is in any way a requirement. I'm pretty sure Mages and Warlocks use much the same stats and equipment. I know they have the same story line...

 

So no the things you list don't need to be done to change the way the AC system works.

 

But even then waiting until lvl 10 to pick an AC doesn't need to change either, and is not by any means grounds to allow people to change their class.

[Kindara]

Sadly it's an argument that will never end.

 

I'm totally for it. The problem is too many people believe what Bioware tells them, that an Advanced Class is a seperate Class. But it's not. If you have a Powertech and a Mercenary, you still get called a Bounty Hunter, still go to the Bounty Hunter trainer, still get a good majority of the same abilities and still play through the Bounty Hunter storyline.

 

Advanced Classes are nothing more than glorified specs, much like a Holy Paladin or a Retribution Paladin...or a Feral Druid and a Moonkin Druid.

 

Getting to level 10 is a couple of hours. Really think about that though, can you imagine any MMO where you couldn't choose your class until you'd played for two hours?

 

All those who are opposed to it have, in my opinion, poor arguments that just boil down to nothing more than they don't like the idea so nobody should be able to experience it! They don't care about quality of life for other players, they don't want something that doesn't effect them!

 

It will get implimented though, at some stage. Most likely when SWTOR's subscription numbers begin to fall.

 

Either that or allow us to pick our AC from the very beginning.

 

They are completely different classes. Being a Powertech I have abilities a Merc Doesn't as a Merc they have abilities I don't. There's also 2 - 3 different stat choices depending on the tree you pick. And even weapon choices.

 

They play completely differently letting them swap Advanced Class aka A Class not a Skill tree is down right insane you'd have to keep fixing all your bars every time you switch and I don't mean just 1 or 2 buttons you get from your skill tree but your WHOLE bar except for the like what 3 or 4 base abilities you get before level 11.

 

Sith Warrior is even a bigger switch since a Jugg uses heavy armor and 1 lightsaber while a mara uses 2 lightsabers and medium armor.

 

If the classes were mostly the same other than the trees like say..WoW or even Warhammer it'd make sense. This is alot like EQ2 (in the beginning) where what you picked mattered as the classes play different, uses different stat styles, and have different aabilities.

 

I'm all for Dual Spec so people can swap between heal / damage or tank / damage but between tank / heals because of Advanced classes? No...Absolutely Not. I dont want this game homogonized. If you know you're never going to heal or tank then pick the Class with the best DPS tree choices.

 

You can preview the trees before you make your choice, they also explain its permante and they also explains what each class is best for. IF you can't make read and comprehend and feel you made a mistake...you should know with in a few levels adn it takes what an hour or two to start over? Its pretty obvious to anyone with any sort of RPG experience what class is best for your playstyle especially if you spend 2 seconds to check things out and ask questions.

 

Oh and Everquest 2 has / had AdvancedClasses and guess what you can't swap those either.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Kindara

[bentonprentice]

Yet another player identify the flaws of the current AC design. And yet Bioware turns a blind eye to its flawed AC design.

 

Is there a way to conduct opinion poll on this issue to see how many are for AC-respec and how many are against AC-respec?

 

Bioware, you once conducted a poll to change the Jedi Wizard to Jedi Sage, why don't you do it again?

 

I to am for this and have added it in my first thread on here, please visit it and give your opinion on the matter.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=336652

[Kindara]

A brilliant point.

 

Those who are against it, are not opposing it because it will actually effect them despite claims. it will not ruin the game for them or destroy their experience. Therefore introducing it will not force them to quit out of annoyances.

 

Whereas those who do want it and do feel it's a quality of enjoyment change, will actually quit out of annoyance and boredom.

 

Not everyone finds fun in repeatedly doing the same thing for weeks.

 

It does affect those opposed to it. It means we'll be grouping with people who aren't any good at any of there characters and dont take responibility for their lazy playign considering all the info is right there for them when they make the choice. It also means there's more people complaining about X adn cuasing the game to be dumbed down to the point of pokemon standards like WoW.

 

Choices have consequences. Its no different then picking a Mage thinking i'll be bad *** and hating it then swapping to a rogue. Especially if you lok at the Sith Inquistor / Assasin the classes play differently one is a caster where the other is a stealing melee class with some casting abilities.

 

If you can't play the easier class in the game and cast some spells properly how are you going to handle the sith assasin? If you can't play a game thats fairly easy other than some class choices and tree builds then go back to WoW where its about to become so easy your 5 year old could play it competently and collect all the pokemon.

[LyriaFrost]

Advanced Classes are nothing more than glorified specs, much like a Holy Paladin or a Retribution Paladin...or a Feral Druid and a Moonkin Druid.

 

Nope. False argument. And here's why:

 

A powertech is a tank class. They have primarily short-ranged (10m) abilities. They have zero ability to heal or engage in sustained long-range combat.

A mercenary is a healer/ranged dps class. They have primarily long-ranged (30m) abilities, and can heal.

 

A holy paladin can heal and melee. A retribution paladin can heal and melee. A feral druid can heal, nuke, and melee. A moonkin druid can heal, nuke, and melee. Are certain things BETTER based on their specs? Of course. But they're 90% identical, since the class (druid, or paladin) has the exact same abilities no matter the spec. Spec trees add, at most, a TINY handful of new abilities. AC's in TOR turn the base class into an entirely new animal.

 

Let's take a more dramatic difference: jedi sage vs jedi shadow. Are they the same class? Not at all. Yet you want to claim it's "just the same" as a mage putting some points into fire, instead of arcane? Seriously?

 

Getting to 10th to choose your advanced role is not a big deal. There are a number of MMO's that have a similar setup. Live with it.

Edited March 1, 2012 by LyriaFrost

[Raximillian]

I would not like that. I understand the issues that come when you get to choose a class later, but the solution is not free AC switching when you want. Either choose the AC from the beginning, or allow 1 free change before lvl 20, which is something BW had planned back in beta if I'm not wrong.

 

But free AC switching at the touch of a button is not something I would like to see. I do see them as completely different classes.

[MajikMyst]

While having AC respec will not make anti-AC respec players quit, not having it will eventually drive those who desire it to quit.

 

Actually that is an incorrect assumption.. When this was discussed in the beta.. It was stated that if they add it.. A lot of people will quit.. Since a huge majority does not want dual speccing.. Bioware wouldn't be to smart to add it..

 

Feel free to look at any thread on this issue as evidence.. Most people do not want it added.. There is simply no reason to add it..

[MajikMyst]

Those who oppose it are simply IGNORANT of the issues faced by those who requests for it. All I hear are :

 

Hmmm.. Thanks for the insult.. I take it, a civil discussion is not possible, where you look at the facts?? Good to know..

Edited March 1, 2012 by MajikMyst