1.1.5 Just got Updated.

[Varicite]

Actually, I was pointing out (with his own logic) that I have no reason to regard his view as correct.

 

I figured you were making a sad attempt at:

 

"But if you say we are the minority, and your opinion is the minority, then the forums must represent the majority of players!"

 

Which you apparently were.

 

And oh was it sad.

[Nangasaur]

I'm worried about the costs of the gear though. Even assuming we get more medals than before, we're still talking about 4000 wz commendations (or rather, 1000 wz commendations and 1000 merc commendations) for 1 BM token. That's a LOT of matches.

It's really not.

 

You can do that many in a day. And with new changes, it appears you'll get more comms even faster.

 

You're overreacting.

[nschlan]

I figured you were making a sad attempt at:

 

"But if you say we are the minority, and your opinion is the minority, then the forums must represent the majority of players!"

 

Which you apparently were.

 

And oh was it sad.

 

No, I wasn't. I was trying to show you you how ignorantly flawed such a statement is. You call the opinions of EVERYONE on the forums a minority. You have opinions on the forums. Ergo, you admit that you do not hold the majority view.

 

I guess logic is hard for some people.

[Locusani]

nschlan, you don't seem to get it.

 

It's cute, in a weary sort of way.

[jonnyshadow]

*EDIT* Link added for convenience

 

 

Players affected by a Damage Over Time ability are no longer interrupted when interacting with objectives.

 

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=325047

 

wth.....you really listened to the baddies on this one bw...the rest are good i guess glad people cant medal farm anymore gg on that one

[Varicite]

No, I wasn't. I was trying to show you you how ignorantly flawed such a statement is. You call the opinions of EVERYONE on the forums a minority. You have opinions on the forums. Ergo, you admit that you do not hold the majority view.

 

I guess logic is hard for some people.

 

Well, severely flawed logic is hard to grasp.

 

If you can't see the huge, glaring flaw in your path of reasoning, I don't think that I can help you.

 

It's really not very hard to follow. I'll try to give you example based on nice, round numbers that anyone can understand.

 

Say we have 500,000 subscribers.

 

2,000 of them visit the forums.

 

The 2,000 are the minority.

 

You and I are part of that 2,000.

 

Your opinion is not that of the majority of players.

 

And neither is mine.

 

My opinion is MY opinion, and as I am only 1 of the 500,000, my opinion is not that of the majority of players.

[Coldsmoke-SS]

Yeah spoonfeed that information to the baby .

[nschlan]

Well, severely flawed logic is hard to grasp.

 

If you can't see the huge, glaring flaw in your path of reasoning, I don't think that I can help you.

 

It's really not very hard to follow. I'll try to give you example based on nice, round numbers that anyone can understand.

 

Say we have 500,000 subscribers.

 

2,000 of them visit the forums.

 

The 2,000 are the minority.

 

You and I are part of that 2,000.

 

Your opinion is not that of the majority of players.

 

And neither is mine.

 

My opinion is MY opinion, and as I am only 1 of the 500,000, my opinion is not that of the majority of players.

 

And yet earlier you were making generalizations and telling us we're all wrong and that most people find the game fun.

[Nero]

A change in the right direction. But not enough to make me resubscribe. They still need to make a working Open PvP enviroment. First order is to fix their engine lag when we have so many people closer.

 

And I won't miss Ilum... good riddance! May the Deathstar put an end to its misery.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Nero

[EternalFinality]

No, I wasn't. I was trying to show you you how ignorantly flawed such a statement is. You call the opinions of EVERYONE on the forums a minority. You have opinions on the forums. Ergo, you admit that you do not hold the majority view.

 

I guess logic is hard for some people.

 

Of course he's not in the minority! He's defending the game! Everyone else is wrong!

 

And yet earlier you were making generalizations and telling us we're all wrong and that most people find the game fun.

 

That's why I said the irony was lost on him. He does it without even realizing.

Edited February 29, 2012 by EternalFinality

[nschlan]

A change in the right direction. But not enough to make me resubscribe. They still need to make a working Open PvP enviroment. First order is to fix their engine lag when we have so many people closer.

 

And I won't miss Ilum... good riddance! May the Deathstar put an end to its misery.

 

They need to make a cutscene of the Death Start just blowing it up.

[bklynfinest]

It's really not.

 

You can do that many in a day. And with new changes, it appears you'll get more comms even faster.

 

You're overreacting.

 

How many coms are you estimating for a "decent" game now? Because at the old rate that's 40 games a day which certainly isn't doable

[Prplppleatr]

Bioware, honestly, what are you thinking?

 

I can tell you the consequences of this:

 

1. Many players will now stop caring after 4 medals.

 

2. Objectives and winning will become less of a priority. People will, at least, receive 2k valor and 40 commendations (assuming they can get 4 medals). Also, medals are based on pure numbers (X amount of dmg, healing, prot, etc) and are not tied in with the objectives (except defense)...if only they had an objective score they could tie things in with...oh wait, they do....

 

3. PvP in WZ's and Ilum will likely die down as more pvp players get discouraged with players who try less or stop trying and simply move once-a-minute so they don't afk.

 

I am losing faith..

[Varicite]

And yet earlier you were making generalizations and telling us we're all wrong and that most people find the game fun.

 

Okay, work with me here.

 

Based upon the information that you were just given about how forum-goers are the minority opinion, let's take a look at what was actually said, shall we?

 

Poorly designed game is poorly designed. Just because a few carebears like it doesn't make it a qulaity game (as show by the fact that I feel like I'm playing a crappier version of WoW, which in itself is has become awful)

 

It's fun to many but it's not fun to many more.

 

 

Actually, you have this backward.

 

It's not fun to many, but it's fun to many, many, many more who aren't here in the forums whining about positive changes for the game.

 

Now, since it's already been established that we are the minority when it comes to people who play SWTOR, it becomes clear that the majority of players are not here crying out about the changes.

 

What are they doing with their time instead of visiting the forums? Well, among other things, they are playing the game and not complaining on the forums. Why would they play this game and not complain on the forums about it?

 

Logic decrees that at least a good portion of those players are not complaining on the forums about it because they are actually having fun playing the game.

 

I know it may be hard to fathom for you, who is not enjoying the game, but most people still playing it actually do enjoy doing so.

[Locusani]

He can make any generalisation he likes. It's his opinion. The difference is, he uses his as aids to explain his point, you hold yours as fact.

 

There are probably more people still playing than originally subbed. My server's certainly bustling, I haven't noticed fewer since the free time ended.

 

Personally, I enjoy the game. I intend to continue with it.

 

I find the pvp to be interesting and challenging in and of itself, without any "prize" to "grind" towards. Huttball, for example, never ceases to be hilarious.

 

And Voidstar has come as close to perfecting the siege model of a pvp match as I've seen. A fierce, and unrelenting assault, the adamant defense. Then the running battles, forcing the invaders to limp to the next set of doors. Flinging people from platforms to spin hopelessly to their doom. And that final room, where the defenders know it's over, their doom is with them, but if they can just keep fighting, just hold out that little longer then maybe, just maybe they can win this in the counter-siege.

 

If you want to complain then complain as yourself, not on behalf of others who frankly couldn't give a damn and probably wouldn't know if you took another breath.

[nschlan]

Okay, work with me here.

 

Based upon the information that you were just given about how forum-goers are the minority opinion, let's take a look at what was actually said, shall we?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, since it's already been established that we are the minority when it comes to people who play SWTOR, it becomes clear that the majority of players are not here crying out about the changes.

 

What are they doing with their time instead of visiting the forums? Well, among other things, they are playing the game and not complaining on the forums. Why would they play this game and not complain on the forums about it?

 

Logic decrees that at least a good portion of those players are not complaining on the forums about it because they are actually having fun playing the game.

 

I know it may be hard to fathom for you, who is not enjoying the game, but most people still playing it actually do enjoy doing so.

 

 

All it means people aren't on the forums. Prove all those people are in game and that they're enjoying the game and not just grinding raids/WZs/Ilum/Leveling/Dailies. Playing doesn't mean you're having fun. Some people are having fun, but people have fun with Aion, Rift and WAR. Doesn't make those games successes

[nschlan]

He can make any generalisation he likes. It's his opinion. The difference is, he uses his as aids to explain his point, you hold yours as fact.

 

There are probably more people still playing than originally subbed. My server's certainly bustling, I haven't noticed fewer since the free time ended.

 

Personally, I enjoy the game. I intend to continue with it.

 

I find the pvp to be interesting and challenging in and of itself, without any "prize" to "grind" towards. Huttball, for example, never ceases to be hilarious.

 

And Voidstar has come as close to perfecting the siege model of a pvp match as I've seen. A fierce, and unrelenting assault, the adamant defense. Then the running battles, forcing the invaders to limp to the next set of doors. Flinging people from platforms to spin hopelessly to their doom. And that final room, where the defenders know it's over, their doom is with them, but if they can just keep fighting, just hold out that little longer then maybe, just maybe they can win this in the counter-siege.

 

If you want to complain then complain as yourself, not on behalf of others who frankly couldn't give a damn and probably wouldn't know if you took another breath.

 

There was a whole thread yesterday showing, with data, that subs are declining. Also, Voidstar is the epitome of siege PvP? Really? Ever hear of WAR, or DAoC? No prize? They make it so you have to grind for the best gear. There's definitely stuff to grind for

 

Also, if you actually read his posts, he held his generalizations as fact.

[Varicite]

All it means people aren't on the forums. Prove all those people are in game and that they're enjoying the game and not just grinding raids/WZs/Ilum/Leveling/Dailies. Playing doesn't mean you're having fun. Some people are having fun, but people have fun with Aion, Rift and WAR. Doesn't make those games successes

 

Actually, that's exactly what makes a game a success, imo.

 

If I were not having fun playing a game, then I would seriously rethink how I'm spending my time.

 

Conversely, just because I don't enjoy something doesn't mean that everyone doesn't enjoy it.

[NoSmokin]

Does this change the amount we get for mvp votes too or not?

[Varicite]

Does this change the amount we get for mvp votes too or not?

 

Good question, I was wondering about this myself.

[Darth-Rammstein]

40 wz coms cap per match is kind of a gimp if the cost of the bags aren't lowered in price...I already get over twice that amount per game right now.

[nschlan]

Actually, that's exactly what makes a game a success, imo.

 

If I were not having fun playing a game, then I would seriously rethink how I'm spending my time.

 

Conversely, just because I don't enjoy something doesn't mean that everyone doesn't enjoy it.

 

It doesn't make the game a success. For all you know, they don't want to play WoW and there's nothing else to do til other -NON WOW CLONE- MMOs come out this year. Just look at the track record of WoW clones. They fail, regardless of whether or not some people like them.

[Locusani]

All it means people aren't on the forums. Prove all those people are in game and that they're enjoying the game and not just grinding raids/WZs/Ilum/Leveling/Dailies. Playing doesn't mean you're having fun. Some people are having fun, but people have fun with Aion, Rift and WAR. Doesn't make those games successes

 

Prove that they are not.

 

Neither of you can do either. The test is unfathomably huge and the sample size contains each and every player, a study of their habits and tastes, their time online, how much of it they use playing Swtor, whether they do so merely out of obligation or because they wanted nothing more than to log in, the number of characters they possess, the size of the fraction of their free time that they spend playing the game, whether they play as part of a pre-game community, a post-game community, whether they are friends or merely acquaintances with the people they meet and solve challenges with ingame, whether they are obsessive completists, if they only play for the single player elements, if they only play for pve or pvp but are coerced into doing one or the other by game design or peer pressure, whether they regret their choice of main, whether they are put into a role they didn't choose for themselves by Operation make-up...

 

and so it goes.

 

Definitive results are nigh impossible to achieve and entirely subject to the whim of the moment, as opinions and feelings change just that quickly.

 

Ergo, the two of you are engaging in a theoretical argument with no basis in fact.

 

You are attempting to win, he is merely attempting to educate.

 

Neither of you can win, but one of you might still succeed.

 

The concept of a -game- succeeding is always a strange one to me. A game exists, it is bought, enjoyed or not, and eventually discarded. The entertainment is in the playing, and once playing is no longer entertaining the player generally moves on.

 

Rift succeeded in introducing a huge number of developed concepts and choices, it presented a petri dish for developers the world over. Economically, it may not have thrived, but its contribution to the gaming world will be felt for many years to come.

 

If you only want to play an economically successful game, then I'm not entirely sure what it is you enjoy about games- unless it is the brand culture infiltrating its way into gaming.

 

Is WoW Dolce & Gabbana? Is Rift Alexander McQueen?

[Varicite]

It doesn't make the game a success. For all you know, they don't want to play WoW and there's nothing else to do til other -NON WOW CLONE- MMOs come out this year. Just look at the track record of WoW clones. They fail, regardless of whether or not some people like them.

 

Well, they made a game that people enjoy playing; I would consider that a success.

 

They made games that not only made back their development costs, but have enough subscribers to continue making their game; I would consider that a success financially. Edit: I guess I shouldn't include Rift in this part yet, lol.

 

If you mean "successful" as in "have more subscriptions than WoW", then I suppose you're correct, they did not "kill" WoW.

 

You just said that people have fun playing those games, and now you're saying that for all I know, they just don't want to play WoW... which is it?

 

Look here, Negative Nancy, I get that misery loves company, but you're just going to have to accept the fact that you cannot project your opinion onto the masses and try to pass it off as a reality.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Varicite

[Nangasaur]

How many coms are you estimating for a "decent" game now? Because at the old rate that's 40 games a day which certainly isn't doable

Heck, I just got 89 comms...from a loss. 9 medals. Imagine if that was a win?

 

With the upcoming changes, that would have been a what? 139 comm-earning loss?

 

For craps and grins, let's say I win more than I lose...which I typically do. Under new system I will probably get what? 200 comms from a win? If I spend a Saturday playing all day, I can easily do 40 warzones...and I have, as I did this past weekend. That will have been a 3 BM token day, just from comms alone.

 

Again. Overreact much, folks?

Edited February 29, 2012 by Nangasaur