This game lacks epeen

[Dunston]

In short, anyone who isn't a self-proclaimed casual player who wants to endlessly roll alts in what then effectively becomes a single-player first person shooter with cartoon e-companions (with romance!) and a monthly sub fee...can just leave.

 

That is way to hardcore imo. Who needs more than one character to think about? And romance!? Plenty of people in here don't have time for romance in real life much less in the game.

 

Keep it casual k?

[Dumpiduke]

Indeed. It's kind of a shame that this thread has devolved to each side attacking the other based on the way one wishes to play a game and what kind of content they enjoy.

 

Yah, unfortunately it comes with the territory. The issue is that currently, the game is suited for casuals and not for hardcores; however, I would argue that the game isn't even suitable for a casual player (say less than 2 hours a day) that does not desire rolling alts at end game. Plain and simple, the end game is SEVERELY lacking the carrot on a stick that ultimately keeps players subscribed. No economy, loot pinata operations, super easy to get pvp gear with 0 competitive requirements, and the most boring dailies ever.

 

It boils down to the end game offering no real way to distinctly set your avatar apart from the masses. I think a healthy MMO needs that competitive environment to sustain growth, others would disagree. Who's right? Who knows...but why not try to cater to both sides?

[Kfab]

I am not attacking anything except maybe the extremely weak current endgame. Which I already said we are giving a pass too because of exactly that, its the gamelaunch content.

 

We really don't care about casual players and how they play. If they have enough stuff to do here and they are happy, good for them.

 

If 1.2 doesn't throw us a bone, hey, I will leave quietly. I'm really not that mad about it, I am just pointing it out.

 

Give us some content, give us some epeen, or lose us.

 

Yes we are a minority, yes some people seem extremely, almost unhealthily excited to see us go, but there are other effects to us leaving that will be felt.

 

It is that simple.

 

I do agree and completely see where you guys are coming from. The content that you guys are asking for isn't going to affect my gameplay in the least. I think that most of this "hardcore hate" started with the attitudes of some players and guilds on WoW and it's a shame to see it migrate over here.

[Agenteusa]

If 1.2 doesn't throw us a bone, hey, I will leave quietly. I'm really not that mad about it, I am just pointing it out.

 

Like you pointed out in every single post you created.

 

Look, i´m not here to attack anyone as I´m not myself what you would call a "casual" I still play a lot, it´s just my mentality about mmo´s that changed a bit, I think due to not being a teenager anymore (I´m not implying anything, don´t get offended, just saying why I think I changed).

 

The only thing I´m saying is you really have to understand (hardcore, casual, black, white , doesn´t matter to me as it applies to all) is that if you are a good player and you can clear content faster than others good for you and you just have to wait for BW to evaluate on that so they can bring more challenging ops or easier ones (depending on the data gathered).

 

Now, what I think it´s wrong (albeit being your personal opinion) is to demand content just because you cleared all they gave you already. And you have been replying to that by making comparisons to raiding in other games and saying it´s easy. It´s easy for you, I also think its somewhat easy but not everyone does.

 

bottom line , easy or hard you´re not entitled to demand new content cause you really have no legal or any other reason other than your personal taste to abide by it.

 

Saying you will quit the game is not a reason.

Saying others will quit the game is not a reason.

Saying you pay to play is not a reason as others also do.

 

I´m worried that content that we all paid for with no exception is not working correctly , that´s my main focus cause that one is the content that no one can argue about since it pretty much affects everyone.

[Cadaverus]

Read through the forums, there's a couple common themes emerging...anyone who isn't a "casual" can just leave. PvPers...not wanted. Raiders...not wanted. "Hardcores"...not wanted. End game players...not wanted. In short, anyone who isn't a self-proclaimed casual player who wants to endlessly roll alts in what then effectively becomes a single-player first person shooter with cartoon e-companions (with romance!) and a monthly sub fee...can just leave. Doesn't leave much of a player base. In any case, I suspect they're soon going to get their wish.

 

I agree 100%.

[Eddizel]

Like you pointed out in every single post you created.

 

Look, i´m not here to attack anyone as I´m not myself what you would call a "casual" I still play a lot, it´s just my mentality about mmo´s that changed a bit, I think due to not being a teenager anymore (I´m not implying anything, don´t get offended, just saying why I think I changed).

 

The only thing I´m saying is you really have to understand (hardcore, casual, black, white , doesn´t matter to me as it applies to all) is that if you are a good player and you can clear content faster than others good for you and you just have to wait for BW to evaluate on that so they can bring more challenging ops or easier ones (depending on the data gathered).

 

Now, what I think it´s wrong (albeit being your personal opinion) is to demand content just because you cleared all they gave you already. And you have been replying to that by making comparisons to raiding in other games and saying it´s easy. It´s easy for you, I also think its somewhat easy but not everyone does.

 

bottom line , easy or hard you´re not entitled to demand new content cause you really have no legal or any other reason other than your personal taste to abide by it.

 

Saying you will quit the game is not a reason.

Saying others will quit the game is not a reason.

Saying you pay to play is not a reason as others also do.

 

I´m worried that content that we all paid for with no exception is not working correctly , that´s my main focus cause that one is the content that no one can argue about since it pretty much affects everyone.

 

I can demand anything I want. I am the customer. Will I get it? Probably not. Can I ask? Certainly.

 

Let them gather the data. Let them put out 1.2.

 

At that point if the product is not what I want, I cancel my subscription, it is a pretty easy concept.

 

Bioware is going to do whatever they feel is neccessary to maintain their subscription base and to grow the game. If they want the business of players like me they will throw some content our way. If they feel that isn't profitable, they won't. No big deal, let the chips fall where they may.

 

They can take my feedback, or "demands" and do whatever they want with it. I will take my money and do whatever I want with it. If they meet my needs, and I feel the game is worth my time to continue playing, they will retain me as a customer and get my money. Simple.

[crimsonsglory]

Somewhere buried in the forum is a thread by a guy who solo'd the gem mini-boss. Last time I looked, 3/4 the posts are attacking him more or less for daring to excel...amazing.

 

Read through the forums, there's a couple common themes emerging...anyone who isn't a "casual" can just leave. PvPers...not wanted. Raiders...not wanted. "Hardcores"...not wanted. End game players...not wanted. In short, anyone who isn't a self-proclaimed casual player who wants to endlessly roll alts in what then effectively becomes a single-player first person shooter with cartoon e-companions (with romance!) and a monthly sub fee...can just leave. Doesn't leave much of a player base. In any case, I suspect they're soon going to get their wish.

 

There was a thread in General Disc forum, a guy simply asking : Will there be Arena-like wow

2v2 3v3 5v5 added in the game. and a slew of wow / hardcore / raiders / pvpers / non-casuals Haters raining down on him.

 

Saying this is not wow, doors over there ---> , if u wana play wow go back to wow, no we dont need ppl like you, we got a life, trying to excel or being good in video game = hardcore bla bla bla .. the list goes on.

 

I find arrogant bads (who seem to be happy that this game is easy and bad) to be far more insufferable than arrogant elitists. - Boxcar

Edited March 1, 2012 by crimsonsglory

[Evangolis]

Lack of peen...so the great but few waggers are peenless and un-happy. The fact they can not merely peen waggle the great unwashed disturbes them...this is golden...this is great...LMAO

[va_wanderer]

I also think this whole transferable mods with bonus's into orange gear thing worries me as it also takes away from the Epeen factor as you put it.

 

I played City of Heroes, and I disagree. Gear was a moot point there, it literally WAS about the "mods"- I can remember plenty of HO runs. Endgame had the best ones, of course. Now, add in interesting visuals on gear that's BoP from said endgame stuff? You're still rolling along just fine. I like being able to keep my favorite look, and I like seeing new visuals show up that I can CHOOSE to incorporate into my character- or simply strip the mods for my own purposes.

 

My issue is that statwise, endgame gear doesn't come with augment slots- which means shifting mods to an armortech'd orange piece that's exceptional is the best choice after 1.2. Being able to augment an orange piece of gear should be something that can be done via mechanics like WoW's gem slots, with items that add an augment slot to an existing piece of gear (Armortech, naturally). This way, visuals are maximized for options, and people who want to look as they like, will. Stats and all.

[Stupiddrummer]

Lack of peen...so the great but few waggers are peenless and un-happy. The fact they can not merely peen waggle the great unwashed disturbes them...this is golden...this is great...LMAO

 

personally, i'd love to see the best players on my server "Waggle their peen" because i would see them and think that one day, it will be me waggling my peen. Even if i never do get to that point in my play, it gives me something to strive for.

 

I'm lvl 39 and i'm looking forward to my...um...faster mount?

 

at lvl 39 in WoW i was dreaming about the day where my druid might possibly wield the hand of rag.

[Dumpiduke]

I can demand anything I want. I am the customer. Will I get it? Probably not. Can I ask? Certainly.

 

Pretty much this. James Ohlen specifically stated in his 1.2 teaser video that the game is for 'You'. Not casual gamer 'You', not hardcore game 'You', but the whole community 'You'. This seems to escape a lot of self-proclaimed casual minds. Anyone that has a concern with the game should voice it. Just be prepared to put up your flame shield when you're forced to defend yourself from the violent flames spewed forth from the opposing side; which is what the OP has been forced to do.

 

We need more middle-of-the-road players

[va_wanderer]

Which without a reasonable challenge to it will be consumed within a week or 2 by everyone, and we'll be right back where we are now. Not logging on with nothing to do.

 

Here's the kicker- there is no "reasonable challenge".

 

The hardcore will always be hardcore- grinding away at whatever content is put in, finishing it faster than devs can make new content short of the content literally being undoable.

 

I remember Fires of Heaven and what happened with the Plane of Time on Everquest. I remember endless threads on Absolute Virtue on FFXI. Those were literally unbeatable. Everything else? It's like watching starving dogs offered a pile of beefsteaks. Five minutes later, they're still growling, the beefsteaks are gone, and then they're howling for more.

 

The only truly effective "evergreen" content is stuff that requires player interaction- sandboxing it, in some fashion to produce.

[Dumpiduke]

 

The hardcore will always be hardcore- grinding away at whatever content is put in, finishing it faster than devs can make new content short of the content literally being undoable.

 

 

The trick is to fine-tune the content so that it can't be consumed so easily. For example, if Bioware has 3 months between content updates, the NM mode OP should have the hardcore guilds banging their heads against it for at least 75% of that time, or just over 2 months. The remaining month will be spent grinding and farming the OP for gear and fluff to use in the next tier of raiding.

 

For an end-game that is gear and progression based, I see that as the only viable option to keeping raiding guilds interested and subscribed. I see it as a pretty simple fix really. Make the NM modes insanely challenging with fluff rewards and you keep a good majority of hardcores content and willing to continue their subscription. This doesn't even affect casual players in the slightest. I don't understand why so many people are so adamantly arguing against hardcore raiding.

[DieAlteHexe]

...We need more middle-of-the-road players

 

We are legion, just mostly don't get into the middle of these micturating contests.

 

Rarely does much get solved, civility goes right down the crapper and everyone involved just gets wet.

 

My opinion: Content for all types. It's tough to "keep up" with the "hardcores" as they are very, very dedicated, methodical, savvy players. But, it's wise to make sure that all your player base has content.

 

Now, if any of the defined segments (casual, hardcore, RPers, PvPers, etc.) are in such low number as to not be worth the focus, well, I can't blame a developer house for not much bothering.

 

It is pretty much all down to $€ etc.

[va_wanderer]

The trick is to fine-tune the content so that it can't be consumed so easily. For example, if Bioware has 3 months between content updates, the NM mode OP should have the hardcore guilds banging their heads against it for at least 75% of that time, or just over 2 months. The remaining month will be spent grinding and farming the OP for gear and fluff to use in the next tier of raiding.

 

For an end-game that is gear and progression based, I see that as the only viable option to keeping raiding guilds interested and subscribed. I see it as a pretty simple fix really. Make the NM modes insanely challenging with fluff rewards and you keep a good majority of hardcores content and willing to continue their subscription. This doesn't even affect casual players in the slightest. I don't understand why so many people are so adamantly arguing against hardcore raiding.

 

That's the point. Why spend all that energy distracting a small portion of the playerbase?

 

Just put more raid-level mobs out in the existing game world. Put them in areas where it's PvP-active to boot for some real "nightmare mode" challenges. Yes, PvE mobs in a PvP-active area. They don't need special snowflake zones to go do this stuff. Trust me. Raiders don't give much of a flying fudge WHAT the area is, just that it's big and tough and hard to kill for interesting shinies. You don't need new zones for those mobs. You just need new mobs.

 

You could probably revive Ilum singlehandedly if you dropped a dozen or so Ops-level (and/or group sized) hardmode mobs into the middle of that snowy pile of junk. Walkers that disembark a unit that makes Havoc Squad look like Girl Scouts, giant war droids, an Imperial Sith Lord with a legion of elite/bosslevel bodyguards, whatever. And while you're at it, having to deal with enemy players as well. There's your endgame challenges.

[Dumpiduke]

That's the point. Why spend all that energy distracting a small portion of the playerbase?

 

Just put more raid-level mobs out in the existing game world. Put them in areas where it's PvP-active to boot for some real "nightmare mode" challenges. Yes, PvE mobs in a PvP-active area. They don't need special snowflake zones to go do this stuff. Trust me. Raiders don't give much of a flying fudge WHAT the area is, just that it's big and tough and hard to kill for interesting shinies. You don't need new zones for those mobs. You just need new mobs.

 

You could probably revive Ilum singlehandedly if you dropped a dozen or so Ops-level (and/or group sized) hardmode mobs into the middle of that snowy pile of junk. Walkers that disembark a unit that makes Havoc Squad look like Girl Scouts, giant war droids, an Imperial Sith Lord with a legion of elite/bosslevel bodyguards, whatever. And while you're at it, having to deal with enemy players as well. There's your endgame challenges.

 

I don't think you'd have to spend too much energy to tune NM modes to make them ridiculously challenging since the core is already there, but I love your idea. I loved outdoor raid bosses back in the day and I would LOVE to see them in Ilum. It'd be so tough to do with the faction imbalances though

 

There are also a number of other factors to consider when instituting world bosses. How often do they respawn? How much loot do they drop? The biggest factor of course, how do you make it fair for the faction that is fewer in numbers? Difficulty tiered ops give both sides equal opportunity to progress their characters, both hardcores and casuals.

[Dayfax]

That's the point. Why spend all that energy distracting a small portion of the playerbase?

 

Just put more raid-level mobs out in the existing game world. Put them in areas where it's PvP-active to boot for some real "nightmare mode" challenges. Yes, PvE mobs in a PvP-active area. They don't need special snowflake zones to go do this stuff. Trust me. Raiders don't give much of a flying fudge WHAT the area is, just that it's big and tough and hard to kill for interesting shinies. You don't need new zones for those mobs. You just need new mobs.

 

You could probably revive Ilum singlehandedly if you dropped a dozen or so Ops-level (and/or group sized) hardmode mobs into the middle of that snowy pile of junk. Walkers that disembark a unit that makes Havoc Squad look like Girl Scouts, giant war droids, an Imperial Sith Lord with a legion of elite/bosslevel bodyguards, whatever. And while you're at it, having to deal with enemy players as well. There's your endgame challenges.

 

Daaaaaaamn, dude fantastic ideas. Raid bosses in PvP zones sounds like a blast. Haha, even DBM will be useless when the opposing faction attacks mid-pull. God, really hope Bioware does something like this.

[Dunston]

 

at lvl 39 in WoW i was dreaming about the day where my druid might possibly wield the hand of rag.

 

How dare you.....

[Oneirophrenia]

Coming from a relatively hardcore player through multiple MMOs, I can safely say that there is already an overabundance of e-peening in online games already. The internet world needs less e-peen, not more. If SWTOR is a game that is lacking in the e-peen factor, I say great and keep up the good work. I grew out of that immature and superficial phase 5 years and 3 MMOs ago.

[Aloro]

After all 57 pages, I believe I seen maybe 2 posts that could somehow be construed as chauvinist from the hardcore crowd and they really haven't been insulting anyone.

 

I've lost track of how many times all casual players have been slandered as "bads"; that's one of the most common themes in this thread actually. Again and again people state outright, or sometimes merely imply, that anyone who self-identifies as a casual player must be unskilled. Not only that, generally there's a further insinuation that all casual players really want to be hardcore players on some level, but just can't hack it.

 

Let's not pretend that all the hardcore players are being courteous and considerate and all the casual players are being judgmental jerks here; that's simply not true. People on both sides of the discussion are being unreasonable.

[JediElf]

Pretty much this. James Ohlen specifically stated in his 1.2 teaser video that the game is for 'You'. Not casual gamer 'You', not hardcore game 'You', but the whole community 'You'.

 

If he can pull that off, if he really can...then that man is a god among MMO devs.

 

I can't wait to see what 1.2 will bring. ^_^

[va_wanderer]

I don't think you'd have to spend too much energy to tune NM modes to make them ridiculously challenging since the core is already there, but I love your idea. I loved outdoor raid bosses back in the day and I would LOVE to see them in Ilum. It'd be so tough to do with the faction imbalances though

 

There are also a number of other factors to consider when instituting world bosses. How often do they respawn? How much loot do they drop? The biggest factor of course, how do you make it fair for the faction that is fewer in numbers? Difficulty tiered ops give both sides equal opportunity to progress their characters, both hardcores and casuals.

 

You don't. PvE+PvP raiding is inherently unbalanced and unpredictable, which makes the same mob vary in difficulty EVERY SINGLE TIME. Have them drop special commendations for everyone, plus a few nice unique orange/purple bits each time, and two-three blue/orange world drops appropriate for the mob level in question. Special commendations get turned into unique looking orange gear.

 

You want a good example? WoW. Raiding cities. Sometimes people would hit them at 3AM local time, sometimes they'd try and roll through in the middle of prime time. Sometimes you'd see almost no opposition. Sometimes you'd have a horde of players to keep at bay while your main group went for the prize.

 

Make some PvE-only. Make some PvE+ PvP. But get them out there and make sure they're in large numbers. Worried about monopolizing them? Make them triggered mobs from a vendor item (hey, credit sinks!) that aggro on the user and despawn if left alone for too long.

 

But you don't stick them in instances. Instances are horrible for endgame. It sticks all your awesome in a little box where nobody can see it.

 

Stick the awesome just outside the main quest hub for a planet, where all the locals see you battling said awesome mob. Stick the PvE-PvP mobs IN the main quest hubs for a planet, so everyone not only see you battling said awesome mob, they're lured in to fight. (On PvE servers, they even have a choice to just sit there and watch.).

 

Take, oh, Balmorra for a PvE example. Put a new "World Boss" level mob in near Bugtown- a super-huge mutated Colicoid Queen is just below the surface, and will obliterate the Republic base before rampaging across the planet. OH NOES! Fortunately, the Republic scientists have found a frequency that will enrage the Queen, causing it to rise up before it spawns an unstoppable horde. All they need is a brave group who can slay it before it does...and has the money to fund it's rapid construction.

 

Guild spends credits on spawn item, goes to area, spawns Queen, has epic fight with Queen and army of bugs- if they lose, after X amount of time Queen "burrows back down" and despawns with any of her remaining adds. If they win, Op-level group gets commendations + aforementioned item drops. Cue cutscene where deep in the earth, a few survivors are feeding a new mutant Queen...and of course, outside players can opt to help you defeat the challenge. Adds can have world-drop options, green to purple but no uniques.

 

Or for a PvE+PvP example, the Republic has discovered a spy's attempt to give the Empire an opening to destroy their primary base on the planet. The spy was supposed to set off a signal beacon to summon the Imperial unit that was to crack the defenses and take over. Fortunately, the spy was caught before the Imperials knew she was compromised, and here's the beacon...for a price from the bounty hunter who found it before the Republic did. Pay his price, set off the beacon and destroy the Imperial attackers. Guild buys beacon, sets at appoporiate area, incoming epic Sith Lord and unit of crack Imperial Commandos to fight. Again, outsiders can help- but the main mob is already aggroed on the spawner.

 

Or another one- the Empire really HAS successfully found an in. Once the guild has paid off the spy, he'll reveal the location. Then set off the signal, the Empire will engage the outer defenses (like those normally 1-shot-killer turrets) so a crack team (the guild) can enter the area and assassinate the Republic command crew, decapitating the defenses to the planet. Of course, they'll only be able to keep the door open for a brief period of time, so a team will have to get in and stay in until the job is done. Dying without someone to revive you means coming back to a medcenter outside the Republic base, so if you wipe completely and the window has been shut...you'll be starting over. Good luck! Maybe you'll have help from fellow members of your side. Maybe you'll have enemy players trying to stop you. Maybe you'll even TELL them in advance to see how many pathetic enemies from the other faction will be lured to the fight so you can stomp them, or if they'll all cower in terror. Different every time.

 

Instances cut the epic out of epic fights. You're in your own little sandbox, where nobody sees it happen but your guild. Epic fights deserve to be seen, not just FRAPSed and put on Youtube for showing off your epeen.

Edited March 1, 2012 by va_wanderer

[cipher_nemo]

Please, the casuals started the slandering on page one and it only got worse from there. Move along now.

 

The OP itself screams elitism and hardcore. So while casuals might have bashed the hardcore player, the entire thread is a bash to casuals. I'm a mixture of both hardcore and casual, so I can laugh at this thread while also wondering when we'll get more end-game status symbols.

 

Oh, that's right, we're getting them: 2.5 million credit end-game crystals in 1.1.5.

[Saurakk]

I've lost track of how many times all casual players have been slandered as "bads"; that's one of the most common themes in this thread actually. Again and again people state outright, or sometimes merely imply, that anyone who self-identifies as a casual player must be unskilled. Not only that, generally there's a further insinuation that all casual players really want to be hardcore players on some level, but just can't hack it.

 

Let's not pretend that all the hardcore players are being courteous and considerate and all the casual players are being judgmental jerks here; that's simply not true. People on both sides of the discussion are being unreasonable.

 

Well I am going to politely disagree with your assumption.

 

Many of the pro-raid content posts explain why they would like it in game.

 

Those against act like people are asking to have a prison built in their neighborhood and anyone who wants to add raids is somehow an undesirable person who is rude, unhelpful, and unhealthy to THEIR game.

 

Yes, the OP's approach may have turned some people off but if people would look more at the content and not the approach it would have been a much more healthy conversation.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Saurakk

[Abiza]

The OP itself screams elitism and hardcore. So while casuals might have bashed the hardcore player, the entire thread is a bash to casuals. I'm a mixture of both hardcore and casual, so I can laugh at this thread while also wondering when we'll get more end-game status symbols.

 

Oh, that's right, we're getting them: 2.5 million credit end-game crystals in 1.1.5.

 

The OP doesn't scream elitism at all. It screams hardcore(and there's nothing wrong with that by they way). It's your insecurities and false preconceived notions of what hardcore is that presumes it's elitism.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Abiza