GrandMike Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) INTERRUPT FORCE LIGHTNING YES!!!! that solves everything! sorcs dont have any other abilities to compensate for a few seconds like multiple forms of instant CC or bubbles or heals of speed to LOS or a secondary nuke... derp derp derp Total noob Lesson for the day: first learn mechanics of the class to be able to coherently talk about it Edited February 24, 2012 by GrandMike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedMix Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 And here ladies and gentlemen we have a fine specimen of a bad player.' Newsflash Interupting TK Throw/Force Lightning hits us hard for two reasons: 1.)Force Conservation meaning we cannot remain a high force pool and we drain pretty fast when we cannot use TK Throw. Also it does only medicore damage untless you get PS procc. 2.) Our main Burst comes from two sources: Force Lightning/TK Throw and Weaken Mind/Affliction both give us proccs. Both are easily countered either by Interupt or by Dispels. Reducing our chances to get these proccs greatly impacts our burst and overall damage. 3.) So which class has long cast times on their CC? Which CC is not instant bar Force Lift/Whirlwind which ironically is a Sage/Sorc spell 4.) You can easily counter Force Speed with nice stuff like Grapple, Slow, Root, Stun and it is not hard to anticipate when they run away. Hint: They turn away from you while on low health most of the time. So instead of nerdraging here you should start to L2P. Have you ever played a Dirty Fighting Gunslinger? My guess is you haven't stepped outside of playing a Sorc at 50 if you think you've got it rough. Imagine if you will, you have to set up 4 (2 dots 2 debuffs) abilities and a self buff THEN do a 3 second channel... which has a 9 second CD btw... to match the dmg a sorc does but applying 1 dot and then using force lightning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vales Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) Have you ever played a Dirty Fighting Gunslinger? My guess is you haven't stepped outside of playing a Sorc at 50 if you think you've got it rough. Imagine if you will, you have to set up 4 (2 dots 2 debuffs) abilities and a self buff THEN do a 3 second channel... which has a 9 second CD btw... to match the dmg a sorc does but applying 1 dot and then using force lightning. Oh what a compelling argument: Me haz daemag rotationz tharf0rz itz diffcalt to plais! Newsflas little baddie I already started a Sawbones, Watchman, Juggernaut and Powertech which are currently around 20-30 slowly and steadily rising. No class is particular difficult at a basic level and if at all Sorc/Sage has the "highest" skill cap in this game purely by the great amount of things you have to keep track off if you want to utilize the class to it's full potential (positioning, situational awareness for enemies and team mates, knowing when and whom to dot and whom not for CC purposes, dispelling, shielding, off healing, pressure DPS, assist burst, interupting, CCing, using Rescue appropiatly) comapred to the usual tunnelvision burst classes which have only one purpose to shut down one class. That the class is overall easy to play on the most basic scrub level is of 0 concern. Edited February 24, 2012 by Vales Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biowareftw Posted February 24, 2012 Author Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) The only picture I'm getting right now is one of bad math, when someone considers a power that triggers 40% Resolve as being "small". Bullshi*. Tell me how you are "out of the fight for 60 minutes" from a KB. Isn't that what PvP is about? Are you actually saying the players utilizing their powers in cohesion with the terrain/environment to achieve kills, is a problem? It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out that when fighting a sage/sorc, there is a 100% chance he will attempt to throw you into the pit or the burner. Is it not up to the player to try and actively position himself to avoid from that happening? I mean, that's PvP. The other guy attempts something, you try to counter it or avoid it. It's not up to the system to automatically ensure something bad does not happen to you. Agreed. This is not a "witch hunt" and I don't want to see Sorc/Sage nerfed as bad as operative/scoundrels were. In fact scoundrels/operatives should be buffed back up at some point as far as utility and or getting to their target. The only thing that immediately needs addressed with sorc/sage is the hybrid spec with one talent that MAKES the spec stupidly OP. An AOE root on knockback that can completely screw melee over whom you are not targeting and whom are not targeting you. This is broken. As I said full balance/madness gets a SINGLE PLAYER root that has to be targeted and requires a key press. Melee already have other classes that they can't even charge and that also have a root on knockback, and still others who have two knockbacks. Giving it to the sorc/sage makes bringing any other range pointless because of all the other CC they have, the ability to offheal/shield people and escapes that slingers/snipers do not have. ATM the more of one class you bring due to one talent = how well you will do in the warzone. If a class specifically targets melee and has to actually work on keeping them CC'd? That is fine. When it is AUTOMATIC and screws over people they aren't targeting, when they also have a ranged slow, a instant mez, a RANGED stun and an attack that autokites? It has to go. I don't even know how people can defend this. This would be like a sentinel/marauder being able to spec all the best parts of the dot tree while also picking up a 4 k dmg aoe force sweep from rage focus. The hybrid specs gives up ZERO dmg, and gains AUTOMATIC CC/control as a hybrid. This is a design flaw and needs corrected. Edited February 24, 2012 by biowareftw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biowareftw Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 Yeah... so scoundrels/ops nerfed within one week of 50 bracket and sorc/sages complaining. All other specs but sorc/sage say the root on knockback needs to go with all the other CC they have and the devs do nothing. I mean look at this board...everyone playing the game realizes this is stupid. We don't even want them nerfed to the ground (like you developers did to scoundrels/ops). We just want a hybrid spec done away with that was never intended. It really is fun watching 50 warzones from 2-3 sorc/sages to 4 every game. The 10-49 brackets are all sorc/sages/commandos/mercs and to be honest I think the merc/commandos aer the sage/sorc alts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellok Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 The only "fix" needed for sorc/sages is; (1) Grant Resolve on immobilize (which goes for all classes which use the same mechanic as well) (2) Move the talent that grants immobilize on KB further up the tree (3) Slghtly increase the Force cost of some powers Anything morer than this is simply asking for a freebie-kill on any sorc/sage for people who have serious L2P issues and do not deserve such a kill. This actually. I used to think it was the no cooldown that was the issue, but this pretty much. I will 1 up you though and make it so that force lightning and telekinetic wave should fill up resolve as well....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biowareftw Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 This actually. I used to think it was the no cooldown that was the issue, but this pretty much. I will 1 up you though and make it so that force lightning and telekinetic wave should fill up resolve as well....... Again...this would kill the class. I am not looking to kill the class. I am looking for balance. I understand peoples hatred of this class but seriously? Their main attack giving resolve??? All that needs addressed is the hybrid spec with the root on knockback. Yes they cried and moaned and got an AC overnerfed imo (scoundrel/op), but suggestions like this? Silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellok Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Again...this would kill the class. I am not looking to kill the class. I am looking for balance. I understand peoples hatred of this class but seriously? Their main attack giving resolve??? All that needs addressed is the hybrid spec with the root on knockback. Yes they cried and moaned and got an AC overnerfed imo (scoundrel/op), but suggestions like this? Silly. You sir are wrong. This would not kill the class. It still allows the sorcs/sages to cc, but not to the point where it is too much. There is still way too much CC in pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highstandard Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 They dont need to be "fixed" you need to learn how to play. Honestly, a working knowledge of other classes and specs will show you how stupid you are for thinking sorcs and sages are overpowered...I can kill a sorc without them getting a single cast off. I'm not a battlemaster, and I'm not in the top 1% of players. I'm a casual player who understands how the mechanics of different classes work, and take advantage when I can...I suggest you do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellok Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 They dont need to be "fixed" you need to learn how to play. Honestly, a working knowledge of other classes and specs will show you how stupid you are for thinking sorcs and sages are overpowered...I can kill a sorc without them getting a single cast off. I'm not a battlemaster, and I'm not in the top 1% of players. I'm a casual player who understands how the mechanics of different classes work, and take advantage when I can...I suggest you do the same. Good for you. Do you want a sticker? What do you do then when you face 7-8 of them? Nothing? Didn't think so...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savionen Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Again...this would kill the class. I am not looking to kill the class. I am looking for balance. I understand peoples hatred of this class but seriously? Their main attack giving resolve??? All that needs addressed is the hybrid spec with the root on knockback. Yes they cried and moaned and got an AC overnerfed imo (scoundrel/op), but suggestions like this? Silly. Making snares affected by resolve would indeed be very stupid. However imo roots should be affected. Or yeah, just get rid of the root part on the knockback. Any other class that has roots doesn't really have any CC. They dont need to be "fixed" you need to learn how to play. Honestly, a working knowledge of other classes and specs will show you how stupid you are for thinking sorcs and sages are overpowered...I can kill a sorc without them getting a single cast off. I'm not a battlemaster, and I'm not in the top 1% of players. I'm a casual player who understands how the mechanics of different classes work, and take advantage when I can...I suggest you do the same. You must be pro if you can kill a class that uses mostly instant-casts before they can cast anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biowareftw Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 They dont need to be "fixed" you need to learn how to play. Honestly, a working knowledge of other classes and specs will show you how stupid you are for thinking sorcs and sages are overpowered...I can kill a sorc without them getting a single cast off. I'm not a battlemaster, and I'm not in the top 1% of players. I'm a casual player who understands how the mechanics of different classes work, and take advantage when I can...I suggest you do the same. Wrong. Melee are made completely useless when there are 4 or more hybrid sorcs in a warzone. Being rooted, stunned, slowed, autoslowed when targeted is fine. Being rooted multiple times on knockbacks when you aren't even the person they are targeting? Pants on head you know what... Melee already have to deal with another class that can do this (slinger/sniper) that they can't even charge. They also deal with merc/commandos that have two knockbacks and a stun. This is in addition to numerous slows. No class should have as much CC as a hybrid sorc. The root on knockback simply breaks the game for melee classes who don't have near the tools they have in other MMO's like immunity, dispel spam from healers, or another gap closer. Rogues in WoW have shadowstep. Warriors have heroic lea plus charge, a root, bladestorm that breaks roots. Dk's have immunity to knockbacks, deathgrip, ranged root. Pallys have immunity to roots, immunity to everything, and two instant cast cc's. Even with the change I mentioned Sorc/sage would STILL be OP due to the broken mechanics of range vs melee in this game due to a resolve system that can be exploited so that melee never touch anyone. The fact you baddies actually think this would "break your class" is the most laughable thing I have ever seen. Then you call people bad??? Whatever. Have fun when all these 10-49 people rerolling to this faceroll class hit 50... You will get nerfed to the ground and I will say...I told you so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biowareftw Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 Why is it that every idiot feels "they" know how to fix a class that they don't play? I say we dispense with all armor, weapons, and spells and simply run around donkey-punching each other. Played it in beta. Doubled everyone elses dps. MUCH easier then any of the ranged classes I played in WoW at a 2200 and up level. So boring and simply not fun that I refused to play it in live. Was damn near impossible to die on in a group warzone. Reported it as OP over and over again only to be flamed by people like you who can't even play a dumbed down shadow priest with all instant casts, and that isn't subject to spell tree lockout, or melee that can be spam dispelled, or melee that can go immune/self cleanse to all the stupid amount of CC you have. How about you do me a favor "idiot". Make a sent/marauder on a high pop pvp realm. Roll republic. Tell me how you enjoy pvp in the 10-49 bracket. It gets worse at 50. At 50 you get rooted on the knockbacks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soultyr Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 How about fixing the 31 point telekinetic tree. Top of the tree instant crit 2.8k 1.5 second cast lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishbrewed Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Just delete them when they delete ilum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biowareftw Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 How about fixing the 31 point telekinetic tree. Top of the tree instant crit 2.8k 1.5 second cast lol It is a pve tree. All specs have trees that don't work well in pvp. Full balance/madness is as good as it gets for pvp. Besides that? You can still do silly dmg on voidstar pressing two buttons as full tk/lightning. I mean do you see many non grav round commandos? Many non tracer missile mercs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellok Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 It is a pve tree. All specs have trees that don't work well in pvp. Full balance/madness is as good as it gets for pvp. Besides that? You can still do silly dmg on voidstar pressing two buttons as full tk/lightning. I mean do you see many non grav round commandos? Many non tracer missile mercs? I disagree actually......healing/madness is best combo....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biowareftw Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 I disagree actually......healing/madness is best combo....... Talking about non hybrid specs... You know...something all other classes have to play and the ones that didn't? Nerfed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellok Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 talking about non hybrid specs... You know...something all other classes have to play and the ones that didn't? Nerfed. as if you haaaaaave to spam those tracer rounds!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biowareftw Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 (edited) as if you haaaaaave to spam those tracer rounds!!!!!!!!! Sorry bud. Why would I play a commando/merc when I was bored out of my mind playing sage in beta... I count that as the most boring, faceroll class/spec I have ever played. I actually think arcane mage in WoW has a higher skill cap if that is possible...All the class is, is a dumbed down vanilla shadow priest with frost mage control that I played years ago before there were even gaming mouses. The class is a joke to play with one... To be honest the only reason I leveled the class all the way was to give feedback about how stupidly OP the hybrid spec was and to ask them questions like why is this class so hard to die on...and ask them how the hell they designed something this bad. I was flamed by people like you, but whatever. You wouldn't know your @$% from a hole in the ground so what do I care... You see I was one of those GOOD beta testers that questions how a spec that doubled everyone elses dmg in every single warzone, while rarely if ever dying (sometimes really good OP/scoundrels would kill me but they have been neutered in live), while at at the same time being way too simple to master was balanced. What happened? I was harassed, had people troll my posts or report them 24/7, even though i played the stupid class better then them (which is sad since there is ZERO skill cap). You know...the same thing you idiots are doing now. Edited February 25, 2012 by biowareftw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellok Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Sorry bud. Why would I play a commando/merc when I was bored out of my mind playing sage in beta... I count that as the most boring, faceroll class/spec I have ever played. I actually think arcane mage in WoW has a higher skill cap if that is possible...All the class is, is a dumbed down vanilla shadow priest with frost mage control that I played years ago before there were even gaming mouses. The class is a joke to play with one... To be honest the only reason I leveled the class all the way was to give feedback about how stupidly OP the hybrid spec was and to ask them questions like why is this class so hard to die on...and ask them how the hell they designed something this bad. I was flamed by people like you, but whatever. You wouldn't know your @$% from a hole in the ground so what do I care... You see I was one of those GOOD beta testers that questions how a spec that doubled everyone elses dmg in every single warzone, while rarely if ever dying (sometimes really good OP/scoundrels would kill me but they have been neutered in live), while at at the same time being way too simple to master was balanced. What happened? I was harassed, had people troll my posts or report them 24/7, even though i played the stupid class better then them (which is sad since there is ZERO skill cap). You know...the same thing you idiots are doing now. You are a tracer spamming merc. Your argument is invalid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvercgull Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 WRONG !! If you quit then all will be fixed with this game, even the no valor gained bug. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellok Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 WRONG !! If you quit then all will be fixed with this game, even the no valor gained bug. Thank you. You are a tracer spamming merc. Your argument is invalid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biowareftw Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 You are a tracer spamming merc. Your argument is invalid. Good call. < Sentinel who outdamages baddies like you in a rigged game against melee. In fact I hate to break it to you? Any sentinel/marauder that is leading dmg can do 200-300k more as a sage/sorc in any given warzone. < Played Frost Mage at high arena ratings in WoW, but hates all ranged in this game because they have no skill cap. Slinger/sniper was the only one slightly fun, requiring any skill or timing or even thought and I hated the class after they put a global cooldown on cover. Ability delay due to this crappy game engine already made playing the class slow enough...Waiting a second just to take cover made it almost as boring as playing sage/sorc. BTW a sage/sorc calling merc/commando "faceroll" is the pot calling the kettle black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellok Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Good call. < Sentinel who outdamages baddies like you in a rigged game against melee. In fact I hate to break it to you? Any sentinel/marauder that is leading dmg can do 200-300k more as a sage/sorc in any given warzone. < Played Frost Mage at high arena ratings in WoW, but hates all ranged in this game because they have no skill cap. Slinger/sniper was the only one slightly fun, requiring any skill or timing or even thought and I hated the class after they put a global cooldown on cover. Ability delay due to this crappy game engine already made playing the class slow enough...Waiting a second just to take cover made it almost as boring as playing sage/sorc. BTW a sage/sorc calling merc/commando "faceroll" is the pot calling the kettle black. You are a tracer spamming merc. Your argument is invalid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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