cupofwater Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) Hybrid Sorc CAN NOT heal like a full blown healer specced Sorc. I tried Its not possible A Healer has ( not only more heals) but more utility FOR healing. Quit using actual in game pvp conclusions and start using the forum theories of why your information is false. Which those people of course know more about your class than yourself /sarcasm (if it wasn't caught) Edited February 21, 2012 by cupofwater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keldaur Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Uh... neither of those skills are in the healing tree. You do realize this, right? No, of course not, that would get in your way of OMG! Sorcs are OP. Light armor. Without external healing I can be CCed from full to dead by 2 competent people. Before I had champion gear that was 1 single well-geared DPS. I suggest you learn how your resolve bar works. That's why he said "noob spotted". Any PvP healer goes hybrid, getting atleast the root on the aoe knockback, and some go even deeper, being able to do aoe bursts aswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavnas Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 oh you mean if you just sit there and blast away at each other until one dies. Now I understand. Nah, if he's a healer I use my CC and interrupts and DPS him until he dies (works only he's undergeared or someone else is adding DPS/interrupts). If he's a damage guy, I alternate healing/DPS until he dies (works only if he's undergeared and I don't have another person on me). Mainly I annoy their healers into running/healing themselves/not healing their team. Being able to survive isn't the same as helping your team. The guy that just used force speed to hide behind a pillar? Guess what he's not doing: healing his team, which really was the whole reason you wanted to kill him in the first place, so you kind of won there. I have to admit I'm somewhat disturbed by the Bal/Tk hybrids having more damage than either tree along and more utility. Generally hybrids are balanced because they give up something to get something and aren't as good at either. For example as a Seer/bal Hybrid, I lose my AoE Heals and ability to recover force while healing for more damage, an instant AoE damage spell, and the ability to spam TK throw. I give up healing to gain damage. Anytime there's a hybrid spec that doesn't give up something to get something there's something wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceperson Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I laugh everytime one of this little persons post. The discussion isn't about "killing a sorc". It's about the tools it brings to the table compared to other classes. For example, the best healer on pvp is the sorc/sage, there's no discussion there, and it should be addressed. Now, stop being a uneducated moron, bring some facts to the table instead of trying to sound like if your genoma tastes better or something. the devs silence is their way of telling you l2p so sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valsdad Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 light armor - perhaps 5% less mitigation than medium. most classes bypass a percentage of armor as it is. you suggest a 2 v 1. 2 v 1 is the WoW Frost Mage mainstay and has worked for them for an entire expansion. Also, the lol31/31/31 sorcs argument will be used at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsubodia Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 We aren't talking solely about full heal spec Sorcs. You do realize this, right? Healing Sorcs aren't the only overpowered ones. i suggest you stop posting as your making yourself look stupid. your clearly jumping on the nerf bandwagon with no actual knowledge of .. well anything related to the class.. next youl be claiming sorcs can guard people aswell. i can give a list of abilities from every class which are rediculusly game breaking to the point where having one of those clases in a wz can win it for you. sorcs cannot do this. i could also list every other classes defensives cd.. something sorcs do not have outside a bubble. i could also get data for comparable dps and burst outputs of any random class spec vs sorcs best dps spec and best utility spec based over a 25k hp pool and show how far behind sorcs are. go learn to play you own class before calling nerfs on others if more people did there wouldn't be any issues. we shall also see how rated pvp works out before anyone can say anything aswell. especially considering atm there are full geared battlemasters facing quest gear newbies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavnas Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 light armor - perhaps 5% less mitigation than medium. most classes bypass a percentage of armor as it is. you suggest a 2 v 1. Or a 2v2 where the other person isn't a healer or tank with guard on me. Or a 5v5 where I get focused on first because I could be healing. PvP isn't 1v1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) i suggest you stop posting as your making yourself look stupid. your clearly jumping on the nerf bandwagon with no actual knowledge of .. well anything related to the class.. next youl be claiming sorcs can guard people aswell. i can give a list of abilities from every class which are rediculusly game breaking to the point where having one of those clases in a wz can win it for you. sorcs cannot do this. i could also list every other classes defensives cd.. something sorcs do not have outside a bubble. i could also get data for comparable dps and burst outputs of any random class spec vs sorcs best dps spec and best utility spec based over a 25k hp pool and show how far behind sorcs are. go learn to play you own class before calling nerfs on others if more people did there wouldn't be any issues. we shall also see how rated pvp works out before anyone can say anything aswell. especially considering atm there are full geared battlemasters facing quest gear newbies. This post contains absolutely nothing of substance about why a hybrid Sorc (healing OR damage focused) is not imbalanced due to their overabundance of utility, nor does it contain anything of substance about why Sorcs are not the best healers. I'll repeat. Noob Detected. Edited February 21, 2012 by EternalFinality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keldaur Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 People who speaks about "squishie". Herp is a comando dps, he has 30% armor mitigation (i am inflating it a bit i know). He also got 17k health fully buffed. Derp is a sage dps, he has 20% armor mitigation. He also got 17k health fully buffed. Due to their mitigations, in order to kill : Herp - 22100 damage. Derp - 20400 damage. You would say, hey, see, Derp is squishie. But what if we add the 3,5k bubble to that numbers, because you know, YOU SHOULD ATLEAST HAVE ONE BUBBLE ON YOU. Herp - 22100 Derp - 23900 Derp also has an escaping mechanism, a root on their knockback if he is not a damage whare, and the best heal withouth needing to talent for it, to LOS, heal himself or allies and "back to the game". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyotecalls Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) Any sensible nerf will be against your hybrid specs, and your bubble. The bubble that goes away the first time I'm hit with gravity round or a gunslinger's normal attack? Yeah, that's soooo game breaking. I can get hit -once- and it not count. Almost like someone at Bioware said, "Hey, these guys in cloth armor are going to get -slaughtered- lets give them something to keep them alive at least a few seconds. Seriously, if you are hitting a sorc and the shield is staying up, you are -bad-. People confuse sorc for being OP because we get a lot of damage on the board. You know why? I run around throwing dots on -everyone- and if I'm about to die I dash off and heal myself. I'm not -killing- a lot of people I'm just doing a small amount of damage to -everyone- but that is what gives me the metals because that damage adds up. Edited February 21, 2012 by Coyotecalls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cupofwater Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 This post contains absolutely nothing of substance about why a hybrid Sorc (healing OR damage focused) is not imbalanced due to their overabundance of utility, nor does it contain anything of substance about why Sorcs are not the best healers. I'll repeat. Noob Detected. This starting post also has nothing to do with sorc healers. You like everyone else failed to read the first page of what was actually being discussed. If you disagree with what is being said that is fine but you should stay a little on topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalliadies Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 and this is why sorcs will continue to not be nerfed in any meaningful way (some reduction in aoe heals and bug fixes won't help you.) BW can't play your character for you, if you can't figure out how to kill a sorc then well, that's on you. keep complaining about unkillable sorcs with spammable 10k shields and sorcs bursting you down (lawls) and you'll keep being ignored by people who know better (which apparently includes the devs) those 8 sorcs that focused you in that wz? well, 8 of anything should be able to focus kill you... When you respond to someone, respond in kind. I have not called for a nerf in ANY of the areas you have so kindly rebutted The one point I have hammered in is "they have no inherent weakness". Nobody here has responded appropriatly to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsubodia Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 People who speaks about "squishie". Herp is a comando dps, he has 30% armor mitigation (i am inflating it a bit i know). He also got 17k health fully buffed. Derp is a sage dps, he has 20% armor mitigation. He also got 17k health fully buffed. Due to their mitigations, in order to kill : Herp - 22100 damage. Derp - 20400 damage. You would say, hey, see, Derp is squishie. But what if we add the 3,5k bubble to that numbers, because you know, YOU SHOULD ATLEAST HAVE ONE BUBBLE ON YOU. Herp - 22100 Derp - 23900 Derp also has an escaping mechanism, a root on their knockback if he is not a damage whare, and the best heal withouth needing to talent for it, to LOS, heal himself or allies and "back to the game". you clearly forgot that herp has two on demand defensive cooldowns he can use and derp does not. facto that into your ******** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cupofwater Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 People who speaks about "squishie". Herp is a comando dps, he has 30% armor mitigation (i am inflating it a bit i know). He also got 17k health fully buffed. Derp is a sage dps, he has 20% armor mitigation. He also got 17k health fully buffed. Due to their mitigations, in order to kill : Herp - 22100 damage. Derp - 20400 damage. You would say, hey, see, Derp is squishie. But what if we add the 3,5k bubble to that numbers, because you know, YOU SHOULD ATLEAST HAVE ONE BUBBLE ON YOU. Herp - 22100 Derp - 23900 Derp also has an escaping mechanism, a root on their knockback if he is not a damage whare, and the best heal withouth needing to talent for it, to LOS, heal himself or allies and "back to the game". Terrible, hypothetical data is terrible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keldaur Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 The bubble that goes away the first time I'm hit with gravity round or a gunslinger's normal attack? Yeah, that's soooo game breaking. I can get hit -once- and it not count. Almost like someone at Bioware said, "Hey, these guys in cloth armor are going to get -slaughtered- lets give them something to keep them alive at least a few seconds. Seriously, if you are hitting a sorc and the shield is staying up, you are -bad-. Gravity round hits for 1,5k-1,8k, even a crit with 70% surge wouldn't completly destroy the barrier. Only 3 skills of a gunslinger can remove a shield, both of them when they are a crit, aimed shot, sabotage charge and quickdraw. If they don't crit, they don't remove your bubble and it's 1GCD against 2GCD. Still best heal in game for being an instant. Keep writing tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsubodia Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 This post contains absolutely nothing of substance about why a hybrid Sorc (healing OR damage focused) is not imbalanced due to their overabundance of utility, nor does it contain anything of substance about why Sorcs are not the best healers. I'll repeat. Noob Detected. it wasnt meant to. it was meant to hightlight how ignorant you are to everything related to the sorc/sage class. which you have just proved with this idiotic reply. god i love forum ingore feature. slowy filtering out the clueless so i dont have to see their crap that they post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelith Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 What really gets me is when you are matched against a full sorc premade, and they just farm the living crap out of you - usually just by aoeing the spawn point. Can't get through 8 sorcs storms in 1 piece... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monterone Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Any sensible nerf will be against your hybrid specs, and your bubble. Hybrid specs, yes -- I can see that. And I'm ok with that. Sorc bubble -- tough chance. I know people think it's annoying but so are defensive cool-downs from other classes, damage immunities and vanish type abilities. Like it or not, the bubble is the only defensive skill we have. If they change it or lower how much it protects, then they better add Force Vanish to the class, or some Deflection/Saber Ward type ability. Or... if you want to simply bury sorcerer survivability and diminish the bubble, then they would HAVE to give us high burst damage, similar to operatives. Currently, we can shield ourselves but it takes a LONG time to kill a single target and we have to do it while STANDING. If you want to make us easier to kill, then we have to accomplish the same job in less time -- proportionally. Lessen the survivability by 20%, up the burst dps by 20%. Easy fix and I'd be ok with that; but any change to the bubble without upping the damage, and especially in burst potential, would kill this class and probably lose a LOT of the player base -- I think BW folks are pretty smart and realize this. I've been testing Sage/Sorc, along with some other classes to a lesser degree since July of last year. I can honestly tell you it's one of the best balanced classes. Not nearly as easy to play and level as some other ones, but once you learn to use every... single... ability... in your repertoire, it becomes a beast. But you have to use everything you have -- you have to have an mmo mouse, a good programmable keyboard etc... only then will you play a sorc to its full potential. Anything less than that and you're just spamming 4-5 abilities and relying on passive CCs, which is not really great skill, and makes the class seem easy to play to a casual observer. Time and time again over the past few months, I've seen people complain about sorc, pick one up only to drop it sooner or later. Most people drop it in the early 30s, when it becomes much more difficult to level this class over some heavier armored classes. Some even make it to 50 and go back to their mains after PvPing, as the class really doesn't excel at anything as dps, but does pretty well overall. But anyways, to each his own... you think the class is so fricking amazing and a god send -- I implore you to make one; but I don't see our survivability going down any lower, and definitely not from a bubble nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evuke Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Reason 3: Bioware isn't going to just simply nerf a class, they will change it so it is more viable in different ways (Operatives for example less damage.. more control), if this is less aoe damage and more single target damage I will take that any day. Less aoe damage and more control I will also take that.. Ummm lie much? BW nerfed the crap out of operatives (armor pen reduction, damage reduction, stun reduction) and didn't change ANYTHING to make them more viable nor compensate them in any way! They've effectively destroyed the class. Be careful what you wish for because when Failware nerf something they destroy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsubodia Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Gravity round hits for 1,5k-1,8k, even a crit with 70% surge wouldn't completly destroy the barrier. Only 3 skills of a gunslinger can remove a shield, both of them when they are a crit, aimed shot, sabotage charge and quickdraw. If they don't crit, they don't remove your bubble and it's 1GCD against 2GCD. Still best heal in game for being an instant. Keep writing tho. if your grav round only hits for 1.5-1.8k you need to fix your gear or stats. if your "3skills of a gunslinger" isnt doing 3.5k dmg.. see the previous comment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyotecalls Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 What really gets me is when you are matched against a full sorc premade, and they just farm the living crap out of you - usually just by aoeing the spawn point. Can't get through 8 sorcs storms in 1 piece... That would be true of any class. Soooo, yeah... next! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keldaur Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) you clearly forgot that herp has two on demand defensive cooldowns he can use and derp does not. facto that into your ******** 1 defensive cooldown every 2 minutes. I know every comando would trade that for a bubble or a force sprint What's your point ? Edited February 21, 2012 by Keldaur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tripballs Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 BW nerfed the crap out of operatives (armor pen reduction, damage reduction, stun reduction) and didn't change ANYTHING to make them more viable nor compensate them in any way! They've effectively destroyed the class. Be careful what you wish for because when Failware nerf something they destroy it. HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHA HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHA HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHA HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHA HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHA good one matey xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yutaa Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 People who speaks about "squishie". Herp is a comando dps, he has 30% armor mitigation (i am inflating it a bit i know). He also got 17k health fully buffed. Derp is a sage dps, he has 20% armor mitigation. He also got 17k health fully buffed. Due to their mitigations, in order to kill : Herp - 22100 damage. Derp - 20400 damage. You would say, hey, see, Derp is squishie. But what if we add the 3,5k bubble to that numbers, because you know, YOU SHOULD ATLEAST HAVE ONE BUBBLE ON YOU. Herp - 22100 Derp - 23900 Derp also has an escaping mechanism, a root on their knockback if he is not a damage whare, and the best heal withouth needing to talent for it, to LOS, heal himself or allies and "back to the game". So if in 4v4 pvp (both teams full BM) if you will run into a team with dps sage, dps commando, tank and healer you will attack commando? Noob detected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsubodia Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Ummm lie much? BW nerfed the crap out of operatives (armor pen reduction, damage reduction, stun reduction) and didn't change ANYTHING to make them more viable nor compensate them in any way! They've effectively destroyed the class. Be careful what you wish for because when Failware nerf something they destroy it. there is a few good operatives on my server still critting for 4.5k ish from stealth. and with the n=knockdown followed by their follow up crit of about 2.5k its still a high dmg output. although not as high as it was. opertives got a double wammy hit tho with the surge nerf and i dont think that was factored into the initial nerf they did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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