Obi-Wan Kenobi vs Kyle Katarn

[KindBudhArsh]

Obi

 

Kyle could barely take out the ever so annoying Rosh without Jadens help...

Katarns awesome nonetheless. A true ****** of a Jedi.

[Tetriarch]

Since Anakin was driving Obi-Wan Back and winning throughout the entire duel.

 

 

Winning? Saber duels aren't like boxing matches where you win points for connecting and get scored after each round. Anakin wasn't winning, simply because he was being more aggressive. Obi-Wan showed his aggressive fighting style vs. Maul (I like to think he learned something from that fight), but against Anakin he remained calm and defensive.

 

They each got off their little pot shots, but in the end, Anakin lost because he believed he was better than 1) Obi-Wan and 2) he actually was.

[BrandonSM]

Winning? Saber duels aren't like boxing matches where you win points for connecting and get scored after each round. Anakin wasn't winning, simply because he was being more aggressive. Obi-Wan showed his aggressive fighting style vs. Maul (I like to think he learned something from that fight), but against Anakin he remained calm and defensive.

 

They each got off their little pot shots, but in the end, Anakin lost because he believed he was better than 1) Obi-Wan and 2) he actually was.

 

Well in the novel, Obi was struggling to block Anakin's moves as they ran.

[RixoFutu]

Kyle Katarn. He defeated big numbers of Imperials, various space scums and a lot of Dark Jedies in his very beginning. And he has knowing of light and dark side too.

[Ichijin]

Dunno why no one mentioned Katarn has access to the valley of the jedi, hence unlimited power. I love um both but counting skill + tools at their disposals I would definitely give it to Katarn.

[BrandonSM]

Dunno why no one mentioned Katarn has access to the valley of the jedi, hence unlimited power. I love um both but counting skill + tools at their disposals I would definitely give it to Katarn.

 

No. Its just a ball of raw Force Power. Doesn't give him unlimited power.

[Rayla_Felana]

Got to give everything but duelling skills to Katarn, in a lightsaber duel Obi-Wan could beat almost anybody, his Force Push was very powerful, but his overall force ability was not very great compared to other masters, including Kyle.

[Ichijin]

No. Its just a ball of raw Force Power. Doesn't give him unlimited power.

 

Well Jerec used it to obtain god-like powers so yeah...

Also it wasn't a ball, its just a spot that is very strong in the force perhaps the the strongest in the galaxy.

[LordQordisz]

Since Anakin was driving Obi-Wan Back and winning throughout the entire duel. If Obi-Wan didn't get lucky and found the opening for the high ground things would have been way different.

 

I totally disagree with your take here. Even before Obi-Wan physically crippled Vader there was a point earlier in the fight when he could have taken Anakin out.

 

"He twitched one finger, reaching through the Force to reverse the polarity of the electrodrivers in Anakin's mechanical hand. Durasteel fingers sprang open, and a lightsaber tumbled free. Obi-Wan reached. Anakin's lightsaber twisted in the air and flipped into his hand. He poised both blades in a cross before him. 'The flaw of power is arrogance.' 'You hesitate,' Anakin said. 'The flaw of compassion-' 'It's not compassion,' Obi-Wan said sadly. 'It's reverence for life. Even yours. It's respect for the man you were.' He sighed. 'It's regret for the man you should have been.'"

 

I think what some might perceive as luck in Kenobi may have something to do with his fighting style. He is strong in the Force, not nearly as strong as some others, but he does imo fight to his potential. In Jedi vs. Sith it is said of a master of Soresu, which Mace said Kenobi was ["'I am called a great swordsman because I invented a lethal style; but who is greater, the creator of a killing form - or the master of the classic form?... not a master. The master,' Mace had said."], "True masters of Form lll have long been considered invincible; although not always able to overcome their adversaries, no Form lll masters have ever been defeated." It is a style that "maximizes defensive protection".

 

During that fight I'm of the opinion that it was Kenobi who was directing it though there were instances where Anakin got to him and vice versa as I've already shown. Here are a few quotes to that point:

 

"In every exchange, Obi-Wan gave ground. It was his way."

 

"Obi-Wan let go. Of everything....And their lightsabers. Startled, Anakin instinctively shifted his Force grip, releasing one wrist to reach for his blade; in that instant Obi-Wan twisted free of his other hand and with the Force caught up his own blade, reversing it along his forearm so that his swift parry of Anakin's thundering overhand not only blocked the strike but directed both blades to slice through the wall against which he stood. He slid Anakin's following thrust through the wall on the opposite side, guiding both blades again up and over his head in a circular sweep so that he could use the power of Anakin's next chop to drive himself backward through the wall, outside into the smoke and the falling cinders."

 

"Obi-Wan let Anakin drive him toward it. It was a place, he decided, they should reach together."

 

Also in the movie Kenobi was so bad azz he told Anakin it was over. He said back down or you're done. And he finished him.

[BrandonSM]

On that very same page you pulled that quote it states,

 

Pg 428

"Obi-Wan barely caught some and flipped them at Anakin: a desperation move. Anything to distract him; anything to slow him down. Easukym contemptuously, Anakin sent them back, and the bolts flared between their blades until their galvening faded and the particles of the packeted beams disperesed into radioactive fog."

 

Pg 429

 

"A roar of the Force blasted Obi-Wan back into a wall, smashing breath from his lungs, leaving him swaying, half stunned. Anakin stepped over bodies and lifted his blade for the kill."

 

And then after you stated what happened with the hand. I'll give you that.

 

But then,

 

Pg 429

 

"Anakin roared and flew at him, using both The Force and his body to crash Obi-Wan back into the wall once more. His hands seized Obi-Wan's wrists with impossible strength, force his arms wide.

 

Dark power bore down with his grip.

Obi-Wan felt the bones of his forearms bending, begin-

 

Pg 430

 

nning to feather toward the greenstick fracturs that would come before the final breaks.

Oh, He though. Oh, this is bad.

 

 

Pg 433

 

"Anakin forced him back and back, slamming his blade down with strength that seemed to flow from the volcano overhead. He spun and whirled and sliced razor sharp shards of steel from the wall and shot them at Obi-Wan with the full heat of his fury."

 

 

 

Maybe I exaggerated, Anakin wasn't roflstomping him, but I believe he was winning.

[Aximand]

Got to give everything but duelling skills to Katarn, in a lightsaber duel Obi-Wan could beat almost anybody, his Force Push was very powerful, but his overall force ability was not very great compared to other masters, including Kyle.

 

Isn't Kyle the weapon master for the NJO?

[mefit]

I totally disagree with your take here. Even before Obi-Wan physically crippled Vader there was a point earlier in the fight when he could have taken Anakin out.

 

"He twitched one finger, reaching through the Force to reverse the polarity of the electrodrivers in Anakin's mechanical hand. Durasteel fingers sprang open, and a lightsaber tumbled free. Obi-Wan reached. Anakin's lightsaber twisted in the air and flipped into his hand. He poised both blades in a cross before him. 'The flaw of power is arrogance.' 'You hesitate,' Anakin said. 'The flaw of compassion-' 'It's not compassion,' Obi-Wan said sadly. 'It's reverence for life. Even yours. It's respect for the man you were.' He sighed. 'It's regret for the man you should have been.'"

 

I think what some might perceive as luck in Kenobi may have something to do with his fighting style. He is strong in the Force, not nearly as strong as some others, but he does imo fight to his potential. In Jedi vs. Sith it is said of a master of Soresu, which Mace said Kenobi was ["'I am called a great swordsman because I invented a lethal style; but who is greater, the creator of a killing form - or the master of the classic form?... not a master. The master,' Mace had said."], "True masters of Form lll have long been considered invincible; although not always able to overcome their adversaries, no Form lll masters have ever been defeated." It is a style that "maximizes defensive protection".

 

During that fight I'm of the opinion that it was Kenobi who was directing it though there were instances where Anakin got to him and vice versa as I've already shown. Here are a few quotes to that point:

 

"In every exchange, Obi-Wan gave ground. It was his way."

 

"Obi-Wan let go. Of everything....And their lightsabers. Startled, Anakin instinctively shifted his Force grip, releasing one wrist to reach for his blade; in that instant Obi-Wan twisted free of his other hand and with the Force caught up his own blade, reversing it along his forearm so that his swift parry of Anakin's thundering overhand not only blocked the strike but directed both blades to slice through the wall against which he stood. He slid Anakin's following thrust through the wall on the opposite side, guiding both blades again up and over his head in a circular sweep so that he could use the power of Anakin's next chop to drive himself backward through the wall, outside into the smoke and the falling cinders."

 

"Obi-Wan let Anakin drive him toward it. It was a place, he decided, they should reach together."

 

Also in the movie Kenobi was so bad azz he told Anakin it was over. He said back down or you're done. And he finished him.

 

All I was saying but I do not have the book to quote from atm .

 

Obi-Wan won a fight against someone he trained , is it that hard to believe ? He raised Anakin and trained him , had time to watch what he does and how he does it . This is because Obi-Wan was a Master and was Anakin's teacher.

Anakin did not do this because he was feed that he was the most powerful and suppose to be better than everyone else. Anakin always had a Ego and his Ego was his greatest weakness.

 

After the fight Anakin/Vadar learned from the fight and was better for it . Not to mention he had to learn to be less aggressive as the suit was made to make him slower .

 

Defensive fighters lead you by backing up, it doesn't mean they are losing ! Nothing from what I have read now from this post or Brandon's reply shows me Anakin as a "almost winner" . Obi-Wan was a clear winner in the fight and it was most likely due to Obi-Wan having raised and train Anakin . Had Anakin not been raised and trained by Obi-wan , the fight would have probably not ended like it did. But then again Obi-wan was considered a Master in his Saber style and it is considered to be the best Defensive style .

 

I just do not see the Arguement behind it , you learn from your loses and so did Anakin. He wasn't unstoppable as he was beat as Vadar by his own Apprentice Starkiller 2 times. Every Ending in SWFU 1 and 2 ends with Vadar losing the fight ! You want to argue and be mad about something , Debat those loses which are more clear cut wins by Starkiller every fight.

 

Obi-Wan won because he was Anakin'c Master and Caretaker a majority of his life . Obi-Wan understood Anakin better than anyone else other than 1 factor. The Factor Obi-Wan could never understand which was to be in love with a Woman . Obi-Wan in my opinion never wanted to believe Anakin was able to be evil , much like a father never wants to believe their children are able to commit crimes .

 

The Fight shows it and if anything Obi-Wan was weakest in the fight because he kept seeing this kid that he raised and loved .

[BrandonSM]

Obi-Wan knew about Anakin and a girl. In fact the whole Council Knew, just didn't know who the girl was.

[mefit]

On that very same page you pulled that quote it states,

 

Pg 428

"Obi-Wan barely caught some and flipped them at Anakin: a desperation move. Anything to distract him; anything to slow him down. Easukym contemptuously, Anakin sent them back, and the bolts flared between their blades until their galvening faded and the particles of the packeted beams disperesed into radioactive fog."

 

Pg 429

 

"A roar of the Force blasted Obi-Wan back into a wall, smashing breath from his lungs, leaving him swaying, half stunned. Anakin stepped over bodies and lifted his blade for the kill."

 

And then after you stated what happened with the hand. I'll give you that.

 

But then,

 

Pg 429

 

"Anakin roared and flew at him, using both The Force and his body to crash Obi-Wan back into the wall once more. His hands seized Obi-Wan's wrists with impossible strength, force his arms wide.

 

Dark power bore down with his grip.

Obi-Wan felt the bones of his forearms bending, begin-

 

Pg 430

 

nning to feather toward the greenstick fracturs that would come before the final breaks.

Oh, He though. Oh, this is bad.

 

 

Pg 433

 

"Anakin forced him back and back, slamming his blade down with strength that seemed to flow from the volcano overhead. He spun and whirled and sliced razor sharp shards of steel from the wall and shot them at Obi-Wan with the full heat of his fury."

 

 

 

Maybe I exaggerated, Anakin wasn't roflstomping him, but I believe he was winning.

 

All these quotes don't show a win, they show how hard the fight was . There was soo many Factors that made the fight a hard win .

Obi-Wan loved Anakin , like a brother , like someone who trained and raised someone . they were always together for the most part .

Obi-Wan just happen to know Anakin in a way that Anakin choosed not to learn about Obi-Wan.

Weaknesses

Not saying Obi-wan was looking for them but he knew them from raising him.

Anakin thought he was unbeatable . I still do not understand this because he did lose to Dooku in their first fight.............How he lost his hand.

Anakin was not a humble person , even the loss to Obi-wan never Humbled him . Being put into a Suit that moves like a Turtle did not humble him.

Anakin was beyond being humbled and that was a weakness. Being Humbled teaches you your mistakes. Anakin refused to believe he had mistakes until he had to watch his son at near death.

[mefit]

Obi-Wan knew about Anakin and a girl. In fact the whole Council Knew, just didn't know who the girl was.

 

I didn't say he didn't know , I said he didn't understand taht kinda love. Obi-Wan never had a wife or kids , you cannot understand that unless you do it .

Wife and kids will change you to do things you would not do otherwise, so Obi-Wan never wanted to believe that Anakin ("pretty much his kid") was capable of doing evil acts .

Boy did he turn out wrong lol.

[BrandonSM]

I didn't say he didn't know , I said he didn't understand taht kinda love. Obi-Wan never had a wife or kids , you cannot understand that unless you do it .

Wife and kids will change you to do things you would not do otherwise, so Obi-Wan never wanted to believe that Anakin ("pretty much his kid") was capable of doing evil acts .

Boy did he turn out wrong lol.

 

Actually Obi-Wan use to love the Duchess.

[BrandonSM]

All these quotes don't show a win, they show how hard the fight was . There was soo many Factors that made the fight a hard win .

Obi-Wan loved Anakin , like a brother , like someone who trained and raised someone . they were always together for the most part .

Obi-Wan just happen to know Anakin in a way that Anakin choosed not to learn about Obi-Wan.

Weaknesses

Not saying Obi-wan was looking for them but he knew them from raising him.

Anakin thought he was unbeatable . I still do not understand this because he did lose to Dooku in their first fight.............How he lost his hand.

Anakin was not a humble person , even the loss to Obi-wan never Humbled him . Being put into a Suit that moves like a Turtle did not humble him.

Anakin was beyond being humbled and that was a weakness. Being Humbled teaches you your mistakes. Anakin refused to believe he had mistakes until he had to watch his son at near death.

 

They knew eachother's weaknesses. It states that in the book. They sparred 1000 times together and they more than a match for eachother.

[LordQordisz]

On that very same page you pulled that quote it states,

 

Pg 428

"Obi-Wan barely caught some and flipped them at Anakin: a desperation move. Anything to distract him; anything to slow him down. Easukym contemptuously, Anakin sent them back, and the bolts flared between their blades until their galvening faded and the particles of the packeted beams disperesed into radioactive fog."

 

Pg 429

 

"A roar of the Force blasted Obi-Wan back into a wall, smashing breath from his lungs, leaving him swaying, half stunned. Anakin stepped over bodies and lifted his blade for the kill."

 

And then after you stated what happened with the hand. I'll give you that.

 

But then,

 

Pg 429

 

"Anakin roared and flew at him, using both The Force and his body to crash Obi-Wan back into the wall once more. His hands seized Obi-Wan's wrists with impossible strength, force his arms wide.

 

Dark power bore down with his grip.

Obi-Wan felt the bones of his forearms bending, begin-

 

Pg 430

 

nning to feather toward the greenstick fracturs that would come before the final breaks.

Oh, He though. Oh, this is bad.

 

 

Pg 433

 

"Anakin forced him back and back, slamming his blade down with strength that seemed to flow from the volcano overhead. He spun and whirled and sliced razor sharp shards of steel from the wall and shot them at Obi-Wan with the full heat of his fury."

 

 

 

Maybe I exaggerated, Anakin wasn't roflstomping him, but I believe he was winning.

 

I did not say the fight was an easy one. It was you who claimed that Anakin was, "winning throughout the entire duel" which is simply not true. I tried to show instances where Kenobi could have beat him earlier than he did. Apparently that flew over your head. All those examples I put were for naught.

 

As I said throughout the fight both Anakin and Obi-Wan had their moments. You claimed something contrary which is false. Anakin was not "winning throughout the entire duel" because he lost at the end and could have lost earlier than that.

 

Also the claim that the enviroment they fought in was to Kenobi's advantage then why was Obi-Wan not taken out in the room? These two have trained together forever, "Blade-to-blade, they were identical. After thousands of hours in lightsaber sparring, they knew each other better than brothers, more intimately than lovers; they were complementary halves of a single warrior." and had been through all types of things and now because Kenobi found high ground he had an advantage? What about the low ground with Maul?

 

As for the first of your quotes, yes Kenobi barely deflected all the thrown objects and laser blasts targeted toward him, but he DID. Then after he got stunned from being Force pushed into the wall he had Anakin at his mercy. Then after Anakin nearly broke his forearm Kenobi directed Anakin's attacks to lead them out of the room, "He slid Anakin's following thrust through the wall on the opposite side, guiding both blades again up and over his head in a circular sweep so that he could use the power of Anakin's next chop to drive himself backward through the wall, outside into the smoke and the falling cinders." After Kenobi figured where he wanted things to go he let Anakin drive him there.

Edited February 22, 2012 by LordQordisz