Combat Tree competitiveness?

[Toogeloo]

I've played a 50 Juggernaut, a 50 Assassin, and a 50 Operative. Each has had a fairly clearly defined tree for each of it's viable specs.

 

I will be rolling my first Republic character, a Sentinel, and I know the diehard end game players have nothing but praise for Annhilation and Watchman specs from these dual wield melee artists, however, Sentinels are one of the very few classes where all 3 trees are devoted to DPS. I know Focus is supposed to be more PvP oriented, and Watchman is what most raiders run, but I want to know how viable Combat is as a dps spec, and what spec best works for it.

 

I want to be a diamond in the rough, and if the Combat tree is perfectly viable in end game, I will probably be interested in focusing on it as I play the Sentinel.

 

 

What advice can you folks give me on this spec?

[LiveandDieinLA]

I play combat at 50 and i love it. Its an anti-kiting control spec, as you get +15% movement in combat, an extra snare break, and 2 extra roots. I usually get about 280k-325k in warzones, and have often hit 400 or 500k in long drawn out voidstars. That being said the build doesn't really come into its own until you get the 31 point talent, which is really the central ability of the combat tree.

 

The key to being successful in combat spec is knowing when to use your precision slash. That 6 second window of 100% armor penetration is when you can do the majority of your burst, so you need to make sure that you have the focus ready to unload a few attacks before you use it. Other than that, as with all three sent builds, it will be your usage of pacify and your defensive ccooldowns which separates you from the bads.

 

edit: I'm sure lots of people will come here and tell you to use watchman, happens in just about every sent thread. I would suggest you try all 3 specs as you level, and decide what suits your play-style best.

Edited February 18, 2012 by LiveandDieinLA

[SteveGarbage]

The problem with Combat is that the sustained damage of the class doesn't seem to be on par with Watchman or Focus.

 

And by not going, say Watchman (considered to be the premier spec by most), you lose a lot of really great abilities. Watchman's get a small self-healing mechanism, reduced cooldown and range reduction (to melee range) on Force Leap allowing you to use it more and from wherever, a reduced cooldown on your interrupt Force Kick to six seconds making it very useful, and procs that reset Cauterize which is your main burn skill.

 

It's not that Combat is that bad, but it's damage output leaves something to be desired and you really lose a lot of the nice utility moves that you can pick up with the other two specs.

[Apocalypse-]

Simply being good as a Sentinel you fulfill your desire to be a "diamond in the rough" as most players struggle greatly with the multitasking required. Can you be competitive as Combat spec? Yes. Are you explicitly gimping yourself by going Combat*? Yes.

 

*Combat's simplicity in rotation makes it easier to be "average" on, so for a certain level of play it is not a detriment, but that level of play is not synonymous with "high".

[EvilCoatrack]

Don't listen to the Combat haters who don't like giving up the big numbers they love in sustained AoE-fests.

 

Combat Sentinels are more mobile than the other two specs (Force Camo breaks all movement-impairing effects and Ataru Form gets a passive 15% speed increase), provide unique roots (our 20% reduced healing reduction debuff is also a 3 second root, as is Master Strike if you spec into it, in addition to the standard root from Force Leap (which you can increase by half a second from a 1st tier Focus talent)), and provides the best single-target burst damage out of all three trees (Precision Strike -> Blade Rush -> Blade Storm (guaranteed crit) -> Blade Rush/Dispatch).

 

Roots don't add to the Resolve bar, so they're incredibly useful in Huttball and anywhere else where you're trying to stop a target from getting somewhere fast (particularly on Consulars/Inquisitors who pop Force Speed).

 

Burst damage, unlike consistent damage, is what lets you kill healers/healer targets in PVP scenarios. We can't interrupt healers as often as Watchmen can, but our burst damage ignores the armor of that annoying tank friend that's Guarding them.

 

Give it a shot. It feels pretty good to root full-resolve ball carriers in huttball over flame traps because we threw a saber at them from 10 meters away.

[Apocalypse-]

Combat Sentinels are less mobile than the other two specs, provide unique roots, and provides average single-target burst damage out of all three trees.

FTFY.

 

Combat's run speed increase and snare break sound great on paper. Except when there's a vertical component to the fight or there is someone smart enough to resnare you when you exit stealth. Focus has a second leap and Watchman doesn't rely on being in melee range every single global in addition to having the more versatile leap.

 

Roots are great, but they are the only advantage of the tree.

 

Watchman's burst potential is far higher than Combat's against non-tank targets (ie healers). If you'd played both specs enough, you'd know this. Full dot stacks + Zen with a merciless-slash-slash/dispatch does more in 3 globals than Combat can, and having all 3 direct attacks crit does far more damage than Combat does if both rushes crit, because Combat's fairly close to it's max damage level simply by having Storm auto-crit. Also, a single stun shuts down combat's burst where as Watchman can just pick up where they left off after the stun.

[LiveandDieinLA]

FTFY.

 

Combat's run speed increase and snare break sound great on paper. Except when there's a vertical component to the fight or there is someone smart enough to resnare you when you exit stealth. Focus has a second leap and Watchman doesn't rely on being in melee range every single global in addition to having the more versatile leap.

The range on your leap doesn't mean anything when the target is on a platform above you. All 3 specs leaps are the same in that situation. Zealous leap has crappy range and a poor animation. Fact is Watchman is the least mobile of the 3 specs, which is ok for the tree, because like you said, you don't have to be attacking someone to be putting out damage with watchman, but that doesn't make it more mobile.

 

Watchman's burst potential is far higher than Combat's against non-tank targets (ie

healers). If you'd played both specs enough, you'd know this. Full dot stacks + Zen with a merciless-slash-slash/dispatch does more in 3 globals than Combat can, and having all 3 direct attacks crit does far more damage than Combat does if both rushes crit, because Combat's fairly close to it's max damage level simply by having Storm auto-crit. Also, a single stun shuts down combat's burst where as Watchman can just pick up where they left off after the stun.

 

I think this is somewhat misleading, as you are suggesting that you are doing your "burst in 3 globals while in reality you are doing it in 5 at the minimum. Putting your dot stacks on the target takes up a couple globals (cauterize and leg slash having to come before you merc slash slash-slash/dispatch combo). you also are probably including your 5 stacks of juyo in your burst, which also take time to build. Watchman doesn't burst, in fact I would argue that doing damage like this is the opposite of burst, as you need to build up to it. You argument here is little more than sophistry.

 

I do agree with you though about the stun. The nature of Watchmans overload saber makes it much easier to use than precision slash.

[Ainianu]

Combat is perfectly viable, it takes a lot more 'judgement' calls on when to hit abilities in PvP (and to a much lesser extent, PvE too) but if you get the right ones off, no stuns/inturrupts on YOU, then your damage output on single targets should be higher than watchman.

 

Watchman is very misleading, a lot of players go purely on warzone damage figures, but killing someone slower with dots should make a fight longer, there will likely be more healing involved on both sides but the watchman spec sentinel if wins or looses... the dots have built up a good overall damage figure.

 

Combat often only needs to actually kill the targets health total, it IS fast if done right and your not often giving them sufficient time to heal themselves, the fight wont be long, the target is dead faster and your overal damage will show lower, you did not NEED to do as much.

 

Certainly not saying Watchman is bad of course, it works very well and its easier to play well i found than combat is, as it has less that can go wrong and being stunned does not impact it so much (the dots stilll tick) Combat can be higher or lower in damage depending on many factors, and watchman is fairly consistent.

[Hesired]

I think this is somewhat misleading, as you are suggesting that you are doing your "burst in 3 globals while in reality you are doing it in 5 at the minimum. Putting your dot stacks on the target takes up a couple globals (cauterize and leg slash having to come before you merc slash slash-slash/dispatch combo). you also are probably including your 5 stacks of juyo in your burst, which also take time to build. Watchman doesn't burst, in fact I would argue that doing damage like this is the opposite of burst, as you need to build up to it. You argument here is little more than sophistry.

 

I do agree with you though about the stun. The nature of Watchmans overload saber makes it much easier to use than precision slash.

 

If its misleading it's only because the post he was quoting was misleading. Obviously you have to build up focus to do any of this and that will get your juyo to 5 stacks.

 

Why would you use leg slash to apply a overload saber?

 

Force leap/OS in air - > zealous strike -> cauterize -> merc slash -> if you want to be mean add zen at start and put them in stasis at this point or slash or MS.

 

It would take two or more "combat burst" to do the same damage.

[Cinemayor]

Combat is far more gear sensitive than Watchman - with good gear you smash faces in but without it you just don't hit hard enough. It also benefits FAR more from Accuracy, since OH attacks can proc Ataru strikes - this becomes especially noticeable when spamming Blade Rush.

 

Personally, I prefer the playstyle of Watchman but if you've got the gear to support it, by no means is Combat a weak choice. I'll certainly be trying it out again once I've got a few key pieces of gear (a better MH mostly - the rest of my gear is pretty good to be fair).

[selectah]

Combat is far more gear sensitive than Watchman - with good gear you smash faces in but without it you just don't hit hard enough. It also benefits FAR more from Accuracy, since OH attacks can proc Ataru strikes - this becomes especially noticeable when spamming Blade Rush.

this!

Edited February 18, 2012 by selectah

[HollowVamp]

focus and combat are pretty close in term, watchman has its own teir, if your looking for the most dmg and into number crunching watchman would deffinately be the choice, Combat was supposed to be our big hitter direct dmg tree, but i find focus having bigger hits. combat is somewhere near focus' level, but not quite touching watchman, ill admit though, combat and watchman's playstyle is way more fun than watchman, so... if you run with people who are more about having fun? then do combat, if you run with elitists who need the best numbers, go watchman

 

this is just from full columi/full champ perspective

Edited February 18, 2012 by HollowVamp

[Sleeptastic]

If you are combat w/ high gear level, the burst you can produce is crazy.

 

In combat, blade rush->precision->master strike->blade storm is a burst combo on par with an operative's opener, especially if you crit the last blow on master strike.

 

Blade rush spamming with precision strike up is 4-6 2K hits each, with a blade storm crit thrown in there somewhere for 2-4K depending on who you are attacking.

 

I've played both combat and watchman heavily at level 50. Watchman has a lot of things going for it (self heals, ability to lockdown a healer), but combat has other things going for it (insane mobility, easy focus management, no need to build up to burst). When I was in ok gear (half champion, half lvl 51 modded gear) Watchman felt much better, but when i was in half champ, half BM then it felt like anyone who I targeted as combat just melted. I definitely had more overall damage as watchman, but as combat it just feels like my target dies faster.