Eterninox Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 From what I collected from various sources around the 'net, during a fairly late stage of the beta, BioWare removed a rather significant number of mods and moddable items, as well as a lot of PvP and LS/DS gear. These items, among other things, included a number of unique models and gear apparances, which are now more or less unobtainable - such as the armour of Thana Vesh, the principal character in the Taris story arc. My question is - has this decision been in any way justified or commented upon by the developers? The thing is, as things stand at the moment, especially in the endgame, characters of the same class tend to look very much alike, with little possibility to actually have a different appearance. This should improve with 1.2, nevertheless - from my today's perspective - the beta decision to remove itemization that could have almost entirely negated this issue seems really counter-productive. Furthermore, it is beyond my comprehension that - even though I understand there was quite an uproar against the changes - they have made it into the release version of the game, although the devs could just roll back into the old system, or just tweak it slightly. So to reiterate my question - if anyone has any info on the reasoning behind this change, I would very much appreciate to see it, if nothing else then to formulate a well-informed and comprehensible suggestion for improvements to itemization. Needless to say, an answer from a developer/BW representative would be awesome! Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eterninox Posted February 19, 2012 Author Share Posted February 19, 2012 So...I take it that everyone else is as clueless as to the reasons of these changes as me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traumahawk Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 So...I take it that everyone else is as clueless as to the reasons of these changes as me? Lots of things were "purged". It was usually preceded by a "we are just testing some things out to see how the game handles without "x" feature..this doesn't mean we won't put it back". Of course, most of it didn't make it back in. So we know as much as anyone else that doesn't work at Bioware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graburr Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 From what I collected from various sources around the 'net, during a fairly late stage of the beta, BioWare removed a rather significant number of mods and moddable items, as well as a lot of PvP and LS/DS gear. These items, among other things, included a number of unique models and gear apparances, which are now more or less unobtainable - such as the armour of Thana Vesh, the principal character in the Taris story arc. if you are a pessimist, you can expect it to show up later as "new" content so they have something to put in their newsletter. as an optimist, you can hope they figured out it didn't work gameplay-wise and it gets a work over. now compare that to the stuff which is still ingame, still is in desperate need of a work over, and the question how moddable gear with unique appearances could not work regarding gameplay, and you have your answer. (yes, theoretically limiting the options of possible appearances also limits the the stuff the engine has to show is a good argument, but if that really is the case there are bigger problems than looking like everyone else at 50). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skoll Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 They did it simply so that they could sit at the office, read all the forum posts about ****** looking gear and point and laugh at us because they hate us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zangaboing Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 if you are a pessimist, you can expect it to show up later as "new" content so they have something to put in their newsletter. as an optimist, you can hope they figured out it didn't work gameplay-wise and it gets a work over. now compare that to the stuff which is still ingame, still is in desperate need of a work over, and the question how moddable gear with unique appearances could not work regarding gameplay, and you have your answer. (yes, theoretically limiting the options of possible appearances also limits the the stuff the engine has to show is a good argument, but if that really is the case there are bigger problems than looking like everyone else at 50). So...you're a pessimist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sun-Runner Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 So...you're a pessimist I am. They tested a number of things during beta. I expect a good amount of those things to be returned to the live game as "new" content/gear/features/whatever. It allows them to have a backlog of partially tested content/gear/features to reach into whenever they need more stuff in the pipeline. This is intelligent of them, regardless of how frustrating it is for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graburr Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) So...you're a pessimist actually, I'm more of a realist. played 2 chars to 50, did pretty much all heroics, tried to collect every suitable customizable item I can get my hands on for my class... in beta every item was moddable, which got changed to customizables only. which, on paper is not a bad idea. however: - lvl 50 either does not let you remove mods or only some of it -> everybody looks the same. not to mention the progression at 50 is "get orange gear, get daily mods, put mods in, then run ops/hm fps for gear (not mods). - "sets" of gear with the same look (like the transpari steel) are incomplete or an inconsistent mix of orange/blue items -> and since you can only mod orange items, you have to look all over the place for another "suitable" orange replacement. take your pick if this is planned or carelessness (and I don't know which would be worse); and this is only regarding the visual aspect of your character. and last but not least we are talking about bioware here, which admittedly takes cues from wow how to design a mmo (sparklepony-speeder is only a matter of time then) and sells items as dlc for a SINGLEPLAYER rpg (and if you look over to mass effect, if you don't get the arrival dlc it's pretty much like you missed an episode of your favourite series). so it's not that difficult to estimate what to expect. Edited February 19, 2012 by Graburr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitzinger Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 (yes, theoretically limiting the options of possible appearances also limits the the stuff the engine has to show is a good argument, but if that really is the case there are bigger problems than looking like everyone else at 50). I don't think that's the case but this had me thinking. I've done a few beta's with MMO's and have been frustrated by the things they have done in the beta and never done again. From missing items to unique events. I will admit I didn't play Beta with SWTOR but I heard many good things. I'm in the boat that they simply wanted to flush out some things with some of the items as far as balance is concerned. The items are simply resting there waiting to come back in and from the sound of it that is a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samborino Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 The problem with gear in the end game (especially pve) is that it is all part of a set. In the end game i can name all the end game gear besides weapons with a few words. Exotech, Xenotech , Energized, then the tier gear. The problem with everyone looking the same stems from the fact that their simply just isnt enough gear in end game PVE and they duplicated where you get the gear in almost every apsect of the end game. HM FP's drop the same gear as Normal mode 8 and 16 man ops also commendation vendors give you that exact same gear. This leads to a number of problems . Adding more gear would be a simple fix to the numerous problems the end game has. 1. character progression is too fast in the end game, because you can get the same gear from too many places. 2. Not only does the same gear drop from everywhere the Raid bosses drop too much of it, i had no problems in wow when a 10 man boss dropped 2 pieces of loot, why on earth did bioware think it would be okay for an 8 man boss to drop 4 pieces? Are they purposely trying to destroy end game progression? 3. At the pinnacle of the end game, everyone will have the exact same gear because rakata is the best there is nothing out there to replace it. A good mmo will have gear that is as good or better than the tier gear to prevent this, it also makes character have questions about their progression such as " is it worth it to take this gear with better stats but lose my tier bonus" Bioware could increase replayability 10 fold in this game by making Operations harder, decreasing the amount of loot that drops and by adding more loot especially loot that isnt part of a set. None of the loot in this game feels rare because its all part of a set none of it feels unique and that is a problem, and im talking about solely at the end game they did a great job with gear up until the end game and then suddenly all they had was basically 4 "sets of gear" if you count all tier sets as 1 set, which i do because they basically look the same with different coloring. Its dissapointing at the very least they need 16 man ops to drop their own loot, as well as making commendation vendors sell non tier loot. Honestly thats 1 thing wow got right. In wotlk there was more loot in naxxramas then there is in all of SWTOR's end game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacity Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 They decided to save all of those extra gear models for an expansion, so they wouldnt have to do any actual work in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
princey Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 To the people talking about everyone looking the same at endgame - The devs have stated that purple gear will soon be able to have the core mod removed so that it can be placed into a piece of orange gear. That mod will be keyed to the item type that it comes from (boot armoring mod, etc.). Also, iirc, the core mod will carry the set bonus as well. They didn't leave it the way it was because it left the door open for people to farm the 1st boss in a dungeon, getting the boots every single time, ripping the mods out and putting them in every piece of gear they had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graburr Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) They didn't leave it the way it was because it left the door open for people to farm the 1st boss in a dungeon, getting the boots every single time, ripping the mods out and putting them in every piece of gear they had. I know, but what does it fix? half the items from heroics are non-moddable, and the rest of the items either look bland (jedi) or are 4 models with a different pattern (trooper) - in the case of trooper, the only items that are NOT white/x are greens. and good luck farming instances to get a decent looking set. ripping out the mods is fine and dandy, but we still need to put them into something Edited February 19, 2012 by Graburr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samborino Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 To the people talking about everyone looking the same at endgame - The devs have stated that purple gear will soon be able to have the core mod removed so that it can be placed into a piece of orange gear. That mod will be keyed to the item type that it comes from (boot armoring mod, etc.). Also, iirc, the core mod will carry the set bonus as well. They didn't leave it the way it was because it left the door open for people to farm the 1st boss in a dungeon, getting the boots every single time, ripping the mods out and putting them in every piece of gear they had. Thats cool and all, but i till think they need to add more gear to the end game. It doesnt excuse having hard mode FP's Normal 8 and 16 man ops drop all the same loot, also commendation vendors sell you that same loot as well as HM Ops dropping some of that loot as well except rakata. Thats just lazy no matter which way you look at it. I want them to make more than just 1 or 2 sets of gear for each class for every raid / new FP that comes out. They need to get away from the "sets" of gear and have bosses start dropping unique gear that isnt part of sets , that is how people are going to set themselves apart in the end game. Sure its cool to beable to add mods to your lower level gear its a nice option and all. Wow added that with transmorg or w/e if called but the raids in wow still have vast loot tables with tons of unique loot aside from just a tier set and another set or 2 for a class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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