Psiwolf Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I dunno where to post this so I thought I'd do it here. Here's an idea I just had. Do stats really matter for an MMO? Why not remove all stats and balance heals/damage/tanking abilities manually until there is a universal "balance" and that's it? Instead of worrying about balancing a boss encounter because increased stats from the last batch of gear, devs can instead focus on how those class skills will actually be used and use the extra time to develop the fight and make it more fun and interesting instead of making it a number crunching game. Same thing with pvp. x deals y damage. a does b healing. j prevents/reduces k damage. After setting the initial stats, this makes PvP more skill based. What's the point of playing like this and what sort of reward to expect? Well, you can still have gear, but it would be mostly a graphical thing. You wanna kill the newest bosses and gain the highest amount of valor to get the coolest, newest, nicest looking gear. Also, the gear can also have 2pc and 4pc set bonuses to slightly affect the outcome of different skills, etc. What do you guys think about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stouver Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I dunno where to post this so I thought I'd do it here. Here's an idea I just had. Do stats really matter for an MMO? Why not remove all stats and balance heals/damage/tanking abilities manually until there is a universal "balance" and that's it? Instead of worrying about balancing a boss encounter because increased stats from the last batch of gear, devs can instead focus on how those class skills will actually be used and use the extra time to develop the fight and make it more fun and interesting instead of making it a number crunching game. Same thing with pvp. x deals y damage. a does b healing. j prevents/reduces k damage. After setting the initial stats, this makes PvP more skill based. What's the point of playing like this and what sort of reward to expect? Well, you can still have gear, but it would be mostly a graphical thing. You wanna kill the newest bosses and gain the highest amount of valor to get the coolest, newest, nicest looking gear. Also, the gear can also have 2pc and 4pc set bonuses to slightly affect the outcome of different skills, etc. What do you guys think about this? I think the game you're looking for is Counter Strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psiwolf Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 I think the game you're looking for is Counter Strike. And Counterstrike is a fine game with the same rotation of weapons available to everyone. Which also could transfer over to mmos. Just pick your class, you have your abilities, and if you want rewards, do stuff and you can buy gear that cosmetically alters your toon and gives set bonuses. After all, isn't that one of the reasons people always want the best gear, to show everyone else you have the newest, shiniest, best gear? I think adding the stats only unbalances the game and if people were really genuinely interested in who is better than who and who is a better raider than who, this would be a much easier way to determine it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavadus Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 And Counterstrike is a fine game with the same rotation of weapons available to everyone. Which also could transfer over to mmos. Just pick your class, you have your abilities, and if you want rewards, do stuff and you can buy gear that cosmetically alters your toon and gives set bonuses. After all, isn't that one of the reasons people always want the best gear, to show everyone else you have the newest, shiniest, best gear? I think adding the stats only unbalances the game and if people were really genuinely interested in who is better than who and who is a better raider than who, this would be a much easier way to determine it. This is more or less what Guild Wars did/does. It certainly made PvP far more enjoyable than the EQ/WoW/TOR model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudenfusz Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Stat increases are one of the fundamental things of RPG for a long time, without it it would not be a true MMOROG anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karraway Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 The day an mmo does this and all the hard work is just about the look of gear etc I will have found the mmo for me.The biggest spoiler for me with most mmos is the damn gear grind I just wish developers would focus on other aspects like fun even pvp,fun even world pvp,interesting environments,cool looking outfits,etc. stats and gear just make pvp about gear not skill and pve about the dull boring carrot on a stick grind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psiwolf Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 Stat increases are one of the fundamental things of RPG for a long time, without it it would not be a true MMOROG anymore. So what? Do you also go around RPing, which is also a staple of "Role Playing Games"? Some people do, some people don't. However, why be stuck on it? There's nothing wrong with thinking/going outside the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psiwolf Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) The day an mmo does this and all the hard work is just about the look of gear etc I will have found the mmo for me.The biggest spoiler for me with most mmos is the damn gear grind I just wish developers would focus on other aspects like fun even pvp,fun even world pvp,interesting environments,cool looking outfits,etc. stats and gear just make pvp about gear not skill and pve about the dull boring carrot on a stick grind. Exactly. Right now you kill bosses to get gear to... kill more bosses to get more gear... /rinse&repeat. At least during vanilla wow, pre-resil, you raided and got gear to own people in the face with the best gear and to stand around IF in your full tier set and look like a bad/\$$ when everyone else were peasants in their blues/greens. What I'm saying is, remove the number crunching and bring back the "stand around and look like a bad/\$$ to all the peasants" part which most people enjoy. edit: wow, censorship on this forum is redic. Edited February 16, 2012 by Psiwolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantragk Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Gear matters in this game. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudenfusz Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 So what? Do you also go around RPing, which is also a staple of "Role Playing Games"? Some people do, some people don't. However, why be stuck on it? There's nothing wrong with thinking/going outside the box. What those guys on RP servers consider role playing has very little to do what makes a video game a RPG. When other types of games use such features it is even called an RPG emelent, even though the game might just be a FPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlaine Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) Gear has a huge psychological impact and is crucial to creating the addiction to mmos. Without new gear to hunt for, or credits to make, people get bored. In fact, the area most neglected in modern mmos is gear. People will argue and point out the raiding gear treadmill, and they have a good point. But a lot more people would be into playing if mmos used a diablo-style loot system. It's the slot machine effect, and nothing makes people want to play more than hoping to hit that big score. This is why D3 is going to absolutely decimate existing mmos when it gets released. Edited February 16, 2012 by Marlaine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karraway Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Gear matters in this game. Period. Yep it's the same old crap that wow does,hence my sub runs out in 2days and I'm gone.Gear should matter but because of how it looks not what stats it has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SentinelDranoel Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 So what? Do you also go around RPing, which is also a staple of "Role Playing Games"? Some people do, some people don't. However, why be stuck on it? There's nothing wrong with thinking/going outside the box. good argument with the rp correlation. Some people call themselves mmorpg fans but forget role playing is where it all starts for. Yet if we go for a traditional rpg style like that then we need more story elements and more stat building. Since building your character is a staple in role playing gamers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karraway Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Gear has a huge psychological impact and is crucial to creating the addiction to mmos. Without new gear to hunt for, or credits to make, people get bored. Disagree people have been programmed to view mmos this way,there are far more ways to make mmos fun, this is why mmos are becoming so stale no one thinks outside the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psiwolf Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 Gear has a huge psychological impact and is crucial to creating the addiction to mmos. Without new gear to hunt for, or credits to make, people get bored. There would be new gear, only it wouldn't be stat boosting. People get bored because the game gets boring. If the game is fun, people keep playing. Without the stats boosts, it would be easier to develop new instances/warzones/ops, etc and it would make skill be more of a factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudenfusz Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) Gear has a huge psychological impact and is crucial to creating the addiction to mmos. Without new gear to hunt for, or credits to make, people get bored. I think it could work for gear without stats as well (most social games just get there money from all the vanity stuff, same goes for the better free to play MMOs. Don't get me wrong, levelling and get better stats is still somewhat that should be there, but it has maybe become a little over the top in MMOs in recent years. Edited February 16, 2012 by Drudenfusz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodanth_The_Wise Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Because that would take away every feeling of "Character Uniqueness" for lack of better of term out of a game, and to do that in an MMORPG is detrimental to the core foundation of the genre itself. There has to be a feeling of originality in your character. It has to be yours. With your proposal, everyone is basically just clones of the other. The game would simply not be an RPG of any sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluejayoo Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 This is more or less what Guild Wars did/does. It certainly made PvP far more enjoyable than the EQ/WoW/TOR model. As much as I am a fan of Guild Wars, it's not an MMO and I don't think it was ever presented as one. It's more of a Co-op game like Diablo. Guild Wars II, on the other hand, is a full blown MMO with all the trappings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psiwolf Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 I think it could work for gear without stats as well (most social games just get there money from all the vanity stuff, same goes for the better free to play MMOs. Don't get me wrong, levelling and get better stats is still somewhat that should be there, but it has maybe become a little over the top in MMOs in recent years. Exactly, people love to show off. You think most people who buy exotic sports cars are driving enthusiasts? Most just buy big, expensive, shiny stuff to show others they have big, expensive, shiny stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatB Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I dunno where to post this so I thought I'd do it here. Here's an idea I just had. Do stats really matter for an MMO? No. It's perfectly fine to have an MMO with no stats. A "Battlefield" type MMO would probably work just well. This, however, isn't just an MMO. It's an MMORPG. The entire concept on which RPG's are built is that it is the characters abilities that determine success or failure, and not the players abilities. The easiest/most obvious way of conveying the characters abilities is through some sort of stat system. The CHARACTER is good at dodging, so has a good dodge stat. The CHARACTER gets better at dodging, so it's dodge stat goes up. The PLAYER is (or should be) a bystander when it comes to dodging. No matter how fast his reflexes are, if his character rolls a dodge failure, he gets hit. Which is one of the reasons why PvP in an actual RPG (MMO or otherwise) has always struck me as silly. All it (should) show is who has the better character, which generally just means who spent more time developing/equipping it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karraway Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Because that would take away every feeling of "Character Uniqueness" for lack of better of term out of a game, and to do that in an MMORPG is detrimental to the core foundation of the genre itself. There has to be a feeling of originality in your character. It has to be yours. With your proposal, everyone is basically just clones of the other. The game would simply not be an RPG of any sort. And with the current system people aren't clones? Swtor a prime example all the pvpers look the same,all the raid gear looks the same,wow is the same everyone ends up after a short amount of time the same.There is nothing unique about the current system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalfear Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I dunno where to post this so I thought I'd do it here. Here's an idea I just had. Do stats really matter for an MMO? Pre WOW, not that much really. Oh they help some of course but prior to WOW they mostly didnt define a character. Since WOW its all about the stats Player ability and skill doesnt matter anymore, its all about the stats! In Rift I breifly joined a end game guild One of their leaders was NOT a good player and even his buddies would bash his inability to change and bend when required. Typically if things didnt go exactly as he read them in the write up he was using, his group would die badly as he couldnt adapt to anything out of the normal. Yet the day after I heard all his buddies ripping him apart on vent (behind his back of course, welcome to the new era of gaming) he was online, in game and openly mocking this one player (not in guild so couldnt hear what was being said on Vent) because player had a single unusable stat on his teir 2 equipment. A single stat and this appearently made the player a new and worthless and unskilled and not to be taken for a raid. It was so moronic and stupid I quit the guild on the spot. One of the worst players Id ever seen in 20 years of MMORPGs (at the time) bad mouthing another player because of stats on equipment. Give me a break. So yeah, in the post WOW era, stats and gear determine your worth to all these non adult (mentally) players who dont understand stratagy and tactics and knowledge of ones skill set. They dont get there once was 14 years of thinking and not just adding more DPS to solve a problem. So if you want to PVP or Raid in a MMORPG now a days, stats are all that matter. wish it wasnt so, but it is sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudenfusz Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Exactly, people love to show off. You think most people who buy exotic sports cars are driving enthusiasts? Most just buy big, expensive, shiny stuff to show others they have big, expensive, shiny stuff. That reminds me how wrong BioWare got this on the PvP gear for the consular, it looks like my character found it in a trash can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayfax Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Disagree people have been programmed to view mmos this way,there are far more ways to make mmos fun, this is why mmos are becoming so stale no one thinks outside the box. Your "out of the box" idea was done ~15 years ago. It was called Quake Live. What the OP is describing sounds like Team Fortress 2 (now with more hats!). Not really sure why you'd need a persistent world for that though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LyriaFrost Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Yep it's the same old crap that wow does,hence my sub runs out in 2days and I'm gone.Gear should matter but because of how it looks not what stats it has. So, gear should matter, but gear shouldn't matter? MMORPGs are built around the D&D model. Questing, accumulating wealth, gear, etc. What you're asking for is during chargen to be able to pick "Warrior" and just hop into game at max level, with some "appearance options", and just wade into pvp. That's pretty much an FPS, you know? Sounds like this genre just isn't for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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