Is Watchman generally considered the "best" spec?

[Dee-Jay]

We have two Sentinels in our guild, one who plays mainly Combat PvE and the other who mainly PvPs as Focus.

 

But reading these forums I get the impression that Watchman is the go-to spec in almost every Situation a Sentinel can find himself.

 

Is that a correct assessment or am I completely off track?

 

Is Watchman the overall better spec in PvP and PvE?

[EvilCoatrack]

Can't really tell in PvE without combat logs.

 

In PVP, I see some Watchmen do better damage than me (I play Combat), but their numbers have dropped since their DoTs were de-bugged and I feel like Watchman was more crit/surge reliant than Combat (Combat can guarantee Blade Storm crits and we have a 30% buff to the critical strike damage bonus of our heaviest hitters that was NOT affected by the Surge nerf).

 

Combat shines in PvP because of its mobility and its ability to immobilize. I don't even pick up the talent that makes Master Strike immobilize my target (it doesn't seem to work half the time and I don't like being dedicated to 3 seconds of standing still), but giving our 20% healing debuff 10m throw the additional ability to root the target for 3 seconds is pretty amazing. Add to this the fact that Combat Sentinels break all movement-impairing effects when they Force Camo, and we can be really tough to pin down and very helpful in team fights in PvP.

 

Also, the fact that Zen isn't that great for Combat isn't really much of a bad thing for group-based PVP. Sure, we rarely use Zen to actually do damage (since the odds of you getting that much uptime on a target is pretty slim to make all 6 of the strikes count), but that just means that Transcendence is up much more often, and that 50% speed boost is pretty awesome in objective-based games.

 

Combat is also really great burst against tanks. Precision Strike gives us 6 seconds of 100% armor bypass, which should be maximized for a ton of burst damage (Blade Rush, Blade Storm, Blade Rush/Dispatch should follow it). Given that Blade Rush will guarantee a Blade Storm crit, and that Blade Storm crits still hit freakin' hard even after the Surge nerf, this is some pretty nice burst that doesn't require stealth to set up.

 

TL; DR:

 

Combat hits hard and is much more slippery than Watchman. It is definitely still good in PVP and we have no good way of knowing which is the best PVE spec right now.

[SteveGarbage]

The general consensus among the boards is that Watchman is the premier PvE class.

For PvP, I've seen generally positive things said about both Watchman and Focus.

Combat usually gets poor reviews for both PvE and PvP.

 

Even despite the minor Watchman burn nerfs and the recent surge fix, Watchman still seems to toss out the highest sustained damage of any of the three specs. The other two are more bursty and can lay out some big hits, however don't seem to do as much damage over the long run.

 

The main bonuses of Watchman that other specs don't get are:

1) Reduced cooldown and range reduction Force Leap (allowing you to use leap from melee range)

2) Reduced cooldown on Force Kick, allowing you to interrupt every six seconds.

3) Self-heals from burn criticals, which become automatic when using Zen.

4) A top-tier talent (Merciless Slash) that has its own cooldown reduction mechanism.

 

My suggestion is to give them all a try. Since respec costs reset every week after patches, take a couple opportunities to try them all out. I've been playing Watchman since 10 and I like it. Once I hit 50, I plan on giving some of the others a try too.

[AngusFTW]

A lot of people prefer watchman. I just learned that way and i cant be arsed learning new rotations.. also i find that unless the other player has a high skill level they are unlikely to stand up 1v1 against a watchman sentinel that knows there attacks..

 

I don't consider myself a good player with but watchman 1v1 against most classes is damn good.

Edited February 16, 2012 by AngusFTW

[EclatDeGivre]

Disclaimer : This is my personal point of view and i have no intention of starting an off topic discussion.

 

I do not think it is the "Best" spec. It's just a unique playstyle relying heavily on your personnal skill, patience and teamplay. It is a very challenging and very rewarding spec. These aspects, combined with the fact that watchman shines in 1v1, may push people to call it "the best". Theoretically watchman is better. But no one can really play watchman in an optimal way. Some will think so, but very rare are the ones that will be right. You miss your force leap *bam* you're dead, you forget *rebuke* bam you're dead, you miss your master strike *bam* you're dead, you get bumped and no gap closer *bam* you're dead. Combat has Displacement and powerful blade storm, Focus has zealous leap and force exhaustion, Watchman run and hope to get in range. On a motionless PVE boss, I think watchman has the tools of getting higher though. But operation boss will have aoe (combat shines), they will have to defeat numerous adds (combat shines), and mobile fights (combat shines).

 

However people tend to forget that different people like/dislike or feel more/less comfortable with different playstyles. If your friends like combat/focus, you can let them, they will shine their own way.

 

If you like struggling, having a slow progression, low dmg numbers (i'm talking about single hits), always feeling that you missed something, your tiny mistakes never be forgiven by your spec, but having the best 1v1 dps. Then watchman is for you.

 

Combat is a little "simpler" as you will shine in the middle of the fight, have powerful aoe and powerful burst. 1v1 is very good as well, but lots of skills make your fight easier.

 

Focus is also quite mobile, has big numbers (force sweep powaa), short rotation et very high burst out of 12s. Quite good cc and mobility as well.

 

To sum things up, all spec are good for both pve/pvp. Well except maybe focus pve that is quite situational but still good. It's just a matter of understanding your spec. People will dictate what and how to play, but to me swtor is balanced enough to make these so called "optimized spec" have minor impact. As a sent you must be humble and follow the flow of the force. The force made 3 ways of dps they are all good =)

[Therealkoop]

In my experience watchman has the greatest utility and survivability, and is no slouch on damage. I think its the best spec for PVP.

 

Combat is a bit more bursty but I can really feel the lack of centering generation and survivibility. I actually enjoy combat but I think watchman has more...Potential? I dont know, it feels like if I play optimally combat is weaker. Not positive.

 

Focus to me is a one trick pony and is simply slow. It isnt fast paced and bruatl like combat and watchman. Not a fan of focus at all.

[Lockyda]

Focus is my world... 9 second force sweeps are awesome! I really feel like I get time to think in PVP without losing the damage.

 

Managing Focus is the key to playing the Focus spec in the end as you can go through it really fast.

[DED_ZAXAP]

Each of us has the best spec. Just test all of them and choose one that you like most of all. I was combat, but switched to Watchman and I like it because when you r stunned or whatelse your damage is still ticking) 0 m force leap and 6 sec interrupt with crits from Zen - not bad to my mind

[Nacixems]

I like combat, as its prob. not the highest dps over time, its simpler to work with, im not young nor am I a hard core gamer, I played watchman for a long time, used it leveling, went to combat and fell in love with how simple it is. yea, 1 v 1 im about the same, i tend to do better on heavy armor targets. but on dealing with 4+ mobs watchman seems better, u can dot mobs up and never die. lol i dont die in combat, but i take more damage cause i dont have the watchman self heal, but, its a much much easyer rotation to master and it feels / flows better for ME. it may not be the highest dps, but for me it close and the diff. is not that great, so i went with what matches my play style. find what u like and just stick with it. .

[selectah]

From a PVE point of view you have:

 

-Watchman:

 

++ Not as gear dependant as Combat

++ moderate self-/groupheals

++ a second 6 second invulnerability for free (which is the best telent in watchman)

+ more centering and thus more group buffs (only one '+' as you basically only need inspiration once or twice a fight and valorous call is lower than inspiration)

+ controlled burst potential (zen + dots)

 

- Combat:

 

++ Better DMG from the beginning (don`t like to call it burst)

++ Higher overall dmg im most bossfights after the surge nerf

 

Explanation to the above:

Combat doesn`t have to build up dmg, as watchman hast to (dotting and building/holding juyo stacks). Most of the bossfights so far have machanics that force you to be off target for a certain amount of time (i.e. Annihilation Droid aoe phase, Garj jumps, Soa invul and jump phases, bonethrasher earthshake...). Most of this timeframes are >3seks which results in all your juyo stacks dissapearing. That and the nerve on surge (watchman is extremly surge dependent) make combat the better dmg tree atm (THIS is my opinion, and has been testet by me with my skillset. This is no absolute truth until we get dmg meters or at least good theory crafting)

 

+ higher aoe ability than watchman (sweeps and the other aoe ability (forgot the name) can trigger ataru.

+ controlled burst with zen + precition (zen only works if ability queue is >= 0.5)

- Higher threat generation than watchman, as zen count as slahes and thus generate threat.

 

In my occasional PVP matches i get to see, that i tend to do more dmg as combat (even solo queued). In Watchman i can stay in fight all night long and are very hard to kill, wheras in combat i die more often, but dispatch of enemies in an instant. And that is in complete PVE gear (T3 and some T2).

Edited February 16, 2012 by selectah

[Morticoccus]

The only thing the "nerf" did was correct the surge formula so that it gives diminishing returns. Name one other MMO that does not have this implemented for all non-primary attributes.

 

I still say watchman is the superior spec , especially in PvP as this is the one melee DPS tree that actually lets you slap extremely hard hitting DOTs on your target, which means that even after he's hit you with his knocback/roots you are still melting his face provided you got one or two hits in beforehand. And after that you can just use your double talented all range low CD gap closer to bring the pain again.

[Gobrot]

From a PVE point of view you have:

 

Most of the bossfights so far have machanics that force you to be off target for a certain amount of time (i.e. Annihilation Droid aoe phase, Garj jumps, Soa invul and jump phases, bonethrasher earthshake...). Most of this timeframes are >3seks which results in all your juyo stacks dissapearing. That and the nerve on surge (watchman is extremly surge dependent) make combat the better dmg tree atm (THIS is my opinion, and has been testet by me with my skillset. This is no absolute truth until we get dmg meters or at least good theory crafting)

 

Annihilation droid aoe you dont have to move out at all in any mode nm,hm or nmm

 

Garj jumps same there you have a thing called sheilds and force cammo once made use of you don't have to move in the slightest.

 

Soa not a huge issue move occasionally to deal with mindtraps, exploding lightning, other then that it's pretty much steady dps, only takes a few seconds to explode lighning and gat back to boss so no real downtime there.

 

Bonethrasher again it's pretty much 100% uptime on dps on boss, any damage from stomp negated by sheilds, if you become out of range leap back, if he targets you force cammo. so again no loss in damage.

 

so quoting them as reasons not to play watchman is far fetched and shows your lack of knowledge on boss fights. if your avoiding that stuff all your doing is gimping your raids dps.

[madro]

For me the surge nerf really affected my watchman dmg, I went from 82% to 72%. I used to get good crits on the dots and heal back returns, it's now much lower. I switched back to combat for the quicker up front dmg (burst). I actually like the master strike root because it's a good closer when you burn all your focus and you are pretty assured it will hit because they can't move (though they can interrupt but most people don't realize this).

 

It's a good spec against heavy armor targets, which helps against ops, mercs and sorc healers (for burst).

 

My dmg charts are about the same, but I can finish off people better instead of just throwing dots on people.

Edited February 16, 2012 by madro

[Csdabest]

With watchmen I did steady damage. And never stole aggro from the tank, Switched back to Combat and Now the tank is having the hardest time keeping aggro. I actually have to hold bakc during hardmodes cuz all the damage i do as a combat sent. cuz i will start taking too much damage as a sent and have to dump it with Force stealth. And 9/10 it goes to our healer and **** just goes wrong

 

Only thing I miss from watchmen is the faster trancendece and the No min Force leap. That was sex right there

Edited February 16, 2012 by Csdabest

[wtfimblue]

In pve, no combat log, or damage meters. Hard to say. You're far more likely to pull threat as combat with out-of-the-gate hard hits.

 

PvP watchman and combat both have their place. People tout 'moar dots' and merciless slash as be all end all for pvp, but never bring up that fact it takes 5 focus to set up your damage every 12ish, and another 4 for your biggest direct damage hitter every 11-15. Burning focus doesn't alleviate that cost as fast as you think. Expect to spend alot of gcds on strike, and reapplying caturize, both of which aren't exactly heavy hitters.

 

Combat is effecient direct damage. At least 2k damage per gcd at the cost of 2 focus every time. It takes much less to kite watchman, though they have dots to deal damage while being kited; Combat cannot be kited meaningfully outside of <2-3 cc's on them in succession because of a 3 second root in force leap's minimum range, and a force camo that removes movement imparing effects. Master's strike immobilize is a plus as well.

Edited February 16, 2012 by wtfimblue

[selectah]

Annihilation droid aoe you dont have to move out at all in any mode nm,hm or nmm

 

Still the stun -> pushback takes you out of the fight for >3 seks (i know you can stand under on of his two "back"leggs where you aren`t sometimes not hit by the KB.

 

Garj jumps same there you have a thing called sheilds and force cammo once made use of you don't have to move in the slightest.

 

True. My healers are good enough so that i haven`t to bother with these abilites at all any more. But still in a low equipped raid it`s better to evade that jumps and remove strain from the healer. The camo/rebuke/saberwards do have to much CD to use them on every jump Garj does (which he does almost all 10 seks or so).

 

Soa not a huge issue move occasionally to deal with mindtraps, exploding lightning, other then that it's pretty much steady dps, only takes a few seconds to explode lighning and gat back to boss so no real downtime there.

 

Almost true. Lightningball -> Juyo stack loss. Trow -> Juyo stack loss. Gettin into a mindtrap -> Usually a loss too (except if you dont kill the add in the trap and keep the buff up by slowly killing it). Transition -> Juyo stack loss. 3rd phase -> attack invul Soa to often -> getting aggro from soa while the tank tries to position him under the pylon -> shild phase lost

 

Bonethrasher again it's pretty much 100% uptime on dps on boss, any damage from stomp negated by sheilds, if you become out of range leap back, if he targets you force cammo. so again no loss in damage.

 

True here, except if you are targeted -> stand still (or run through his legs on sumo step) -> juyo loss

 

so quoting them as reasons not to play watchman is far fetched and shows your lack of knowledge on boss fights. if your avoiding that stuff all your doing is gimping your raids dps.

 

These are examples why combat is superior in boss fight dmg atm IMO. That means I tested the dmg difference for combat and watchman in a way I found suitable for myself, and as of the minimal difference of dps at my best performace, and the reasons above i took combat. And no, i know my bossfights. And not evading some of the above will strain your healers which will result in killing one of your grp and thus even more gimping your raid or wiping it.

 

To be clear:

I don`t recommend any specs in my posts, i just pointed out the strengthes and weaknesses both of these specs have IMO

 

 

 

... I actually have to hold bakc during hardmodes cuz all the damage i do as a combat sent. cuz i will start taking too much damage as a sent and have to dump it with Force stealth...

 

Aggro in this game isn`t build by dmg. Its build by the number of hits you do on the boss.

For example: If your tank hits the boss 6 times (*1.5 cause of the multiplier), he has 9 aggro. If you hit the boss 10 times in the same timeframe (10% more to trigger an aggro change) you get the aggro. As far as my testing goes, it seemed that dots (or some of them) didn`t count to the aggro count, and thus in watchman you have less aggro danger than in combat.

Edited February 16, 2012 by selectah

[Spungey]

In pvp, if your getting Kited as Watchman spec then well..i dont have to say it. 2 points in Inflammation and no more kiting. Those 2 points are well worth the loss of 4% crit or w/e you place something in.

 

I enjoy pvp'ing as Watchman and the pve as well..although I hate having to respec everytime I go from pvp to pve and back again. In pve..the 2 points are better served in other areas..No reason to have a slow effect on HM bosses.

 

Anyways. gl with w/e you choose..its all personal preference.

[ztee]

Annihilation droid aoe you dont have to move out at all in any mode nm,hm or nmm

 

Garj jumps same there you have a thing called sheilds and force cammo once made use of you don't have to move in the slightest.

 

Soa not a huge issue move occasionally to deal with mindtraps, exploding lightning, other then that it's pretty much steady dps, only takes a few seconds to explode lighning and gat back to boss so no real downtime there.

 

Bonethrasher again it's pretty much 100% uptime on dps on boss, any damage from stomp negated by sheilds, if you become out of range leap back, if he targets you force cammo. so again no loss in damage.

 

so quoting them as reasons not to play watchman is far fetched and shows your lack of knowledge on boss fights. if your avoiding that stuff all your doing is gimping your raids dps.

 

Glad someone said it

Edited February 17, 2012 by ztee

[Boovi]

PVE wise since there are no logs we can't really tell.

 

In PVP, all specs are good if played properly. I like watchman better because its the best spec against healers and has the best survivability. Its all personal preference of course.

[FobManX]

Watchman does awesome sustained single target DPS(which is what you need vs bosses)while also providing excellent utility. So for PVE yes it's the best spec.

[Hizoka]

whats funny is Surge effects everyone the same. and its not nearly as big a hit as people want to make it out to be.

 

 

I am in Rekatta gear and i went from 87 crit multiply to 76... a whoping 11% on crits, yeah it sounds like alot but in reality its prolly less tehn 3-% total damage reduction, and its the same thing that happened to EVERYONE.

 

 

Combat is a garbage spec next to watchmen, it can do more bursty damage but in a sustained damage fight nothing beats watchmen. Watchmen is built for long fights.

[Sleeptastic]

I've pvped extensively in the 50 bracket as both watchman and combat, and there's things that I miss from each when I'm in the other. No experience whatsoever in Focus.

 

Both specs excel in different aspects. Combat is probably easier because even if you suck you should be able to blade rush spam, which is actually insanely good damage for spamming one button, especially when you have high crit. On the other hand, I definitely have more overall damage as watchman, and my play style hardly ever uses zen as watchman. Watchman also has great lockdown ability on healers, who can be extremely frustrating to take down as combat if they are guarded. Having the extra interrupting ability at least gives you a sense that you are making progress on the guy.

[tkshinoda]

As a Vanguard when i run into watchman specced rauder/sents there is a 30/70% chance i will win because those damn burns ignore my armor and just eat me alive, any other spec from a sent/rauder i say i have the 70% chance of winning, once i see those burning blades being charged i know i am in for a world of hurt, so from a PvP point of view i would say watchman has the edge over both combat and focus, but watchman seems to require a bit more "skill" then combat/focus

[Metallistic]

... so from a PvP point of view i would say watchman has the edge over both combat and focus, but watchman seems to require a bit more "skill" then combat/focus

Yes, especially compared to focus.

 

Inb4"poppingtrinketandnoobaoebombingrequiresskill"

Edited February 17, 2012 by Metallistic

[nanohana]

... and my play style hardly ever uses zen as watchman

 

 

Not sure if you are serious about that.