YvanAquino Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Can we please get a "RE is Broken" sticky please so that I don't have to read five or six "please fix RE" or "fix crafting or I quit" threads before I find a thread worth reading with interesting content? A simple sticky referencing the fact that the devs are working actively addressing the balancing issue would be nice, and if they could provide a timeline ESTIMATE, that would be nice too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larkie Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 RE is broken?? Omg, when did this happen? At the same time you were making this thread I was RE'ing high-level items (48 & 49) and learned three new schems. Weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackardin Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 What I want to know is, now that they borked the system with the combination of high cost, low yield mats and the high fail rate, what are they going to do about "gold sellers" buying up all the mats on the GTN and then price gouging them? Just today I was, due to many, many fails, trying to buy some Hypertech fragments. Average cost on the GTN right now is about 1800 each. While on an alt I caught someone putting them up for a more normal price of 165 each. By the time i switched to my main to buy them the gold farmer that has every single Hypertech re-sold, already scooped them up, marked them up and posted them. You would think it would be understood by now that if one creates an extremely high demand for mats in an attempt to make trade skills "hard", all they do is create a mat farming, gold farming enterprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WedgeFan Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 RE is not broken. I also got a few purples today after only making 10-20 blues total. I for one like the fact it's a low success rate. It makes the market.....well a market. I have something you don't, you have something I don't. A better approach would be to make all the different types of weapons we can make viable. You think you're going to sell another weapon with +surge on it til the full effect of the nerf comes to fruition? What about +pres, (especially on a techblade)? I don't think Consulars and Troopers are worried about the +pres stat for Qyzen or Vik. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehash Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 What I want to know is, now that they borked the system with the combination of high cost, low yield mats and the high fail rate, what are they going to do about "gold sellers" buying up all the mats on the GTN and then price gouging them? Just today I was, due to many, many fails, trying to buy some Hypertech fragments. Average cost on the GTN right now is about 1800 each. While on an alt I caught someone putting them up for a more normal price of 165 each. By the time i switched to my main to buy them the gold farmer that has every single Hypertech re-sold, already scooped them up, marked them up and posted them. You would think it would be understood by now that if one creates an extremely high demand for mats in an attempt to make trade skills "hard", all they do is create a mat farming, gold farming enterprise. What makes you think it is a gold seller? I regularly control the market on certain items and I do not sell any of my credits. Done correctly, you can earn very good money without ever leaving the fleet. Now if only I could get BW to change the 50 item limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Mech_ Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 to the OP... The developer response to REing NWAI is now quoted in the sticky-ed thread on Guide to Reverse Engineering...HERE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonaria Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 RE is not broken. I also got a few purples today after only making 10-20 blues total. I for one like the fact it's a low success rate. It makes the market.....well a market. I have something you don't, you have something I don't. A better approach would be to make all the different types of weapons we can make viable. You think you're going to sell another weapon with +surge on it til the full effect of the nerf comes to fruition? What about +pres, (especially on a techblade)? I don't think Consulars and Troopers are worried about the +pres stat for Qyzen or Vik. If you look under the Community tab, then Community News... the Feb 6-12 update. They state: “The reverse engineering return rate is not currently working as intended. In an upcoming patch, we are improving the reverse engineering rates – especially for the higher-level items. We are also looking into the issue where a player receives "You already know that schematic" instead of learning a new research variation.” ^ I think that's what the first person that posted meant about RE not working right now. From personal experience, I have RE'ed at least 40 green quality offhands to try to learn a "redoubt" version... learned a "critical" and 1 error message "you already know that schematic." So for right now, I'm going to hold off on REing until they fix it. But yes, an estimated timeline of when this would be fixed would be great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty-Wan Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 This guy wants to step in and sort us all out with his one thread to rule them all. Too bad he doesn't grasp the difference broken and not working as intended. RE is not broken, we don't need to sticky your dopey thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatB Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 What I want to know is, now that they borked the system with the combination of high cost, low yield mats and the high fail rate, what are they going to do about "gold sellers" buying up all the mats on the GTN and then price gouging them? Just today I was, due to many, many fails, trying to buy some Hypertech fragments. Average cost on the GTN right now is about 1800 each. While on an alt I caught someone putting them up for a more normal price of 165 each. By the time i switched to my main to buy them the gold farmer that has every single Hypertech re-sold, already scooped them up, marked them up and posted them. You would think it would be understood by now that if one creates an extremely high demand for mats in an attempt to make trade skills "hard", all they do is create a mat farming, gold farming enterprise. Well, considering how quickly you gain skill, and the ease of sending companions out on gathering missions, there is no real reason to pay anything more than the approximate average cost of an item from missions. Anybody paying 1800 each is an ignorant fool. To me, I see the GTN as a lower cost alternative to running the missions. Harvester makes more money than he would selling to vendor, I get my item for less than I would running the mission myself. Everybody wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackardin Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Well, considering how quickly you gain skill, and the ease of sending companions out on gathering missions, there is no real reason to pay anything more than the approximate average cost of an item from missions. Anybody paying 1800 each is an ignorant fool. To me, I see the GTN as a lower cost alternative to running the missions. Harvester makes more money than he would selling to vendor, I get my item for less than I would running the mission myself. Everybody wins. This is not correct. When you consider the cost of a mission for the afore mentioned item, the return rate of 2 per mission, the cost of 4 per item attempt, the fail rate, the lack of that particular mission, the cost and time sink goes up exponentially. This makes the high cost actually more cost effective for those with excess disposable income earned by selling in a like minded way. Yes, they are buying the items up. There is a track record demonstrating that from game to game using similar models. These guys study the market, study the return rate on crafting items, watch market trends, then act on them. This is not a game to them, its their RL livelyhood. If it didn't work, they would not be doing it. With the present state of crafting, the market is ripe and bountiful. ;p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackardin Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 What makes you think it is a gold seller? Track record, SOP through multiple games over the years. Knowing a few gold sellers met through other means (no I don't approve of it at all). This basic model was formulated well back in Everquest and has proven successful every time its employed. Now, I'm not saying they are all gold sellers, but yes, that is their method. You are simply copying a successful business plan. Also, don't get me wrong here. I'm making a ton of credits right now. That part is not difficult, but I'd rather just be able to craft items for my main for each level and make my money just leveling, not have to play the market, buy and sell, farm mats on 3 or 4 chars, compete with you and the gold sellers. To me that is a broken system that the smarter people, like yourself, have got a handle on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZNICK Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) I'm pretty sure the one dev post saying "it's not working as intended, we'll fix it in a patch" was posted a couple weeks ago and they've already fixed it, lol. Stop making problems when there ARE NONE! I RE'd blues to purple as well as greens to blues YESTERDAY. They didn't say they'd make every 3rd one a success... just "not as intended". I'm pretty sure now it's fine. (based upon my own successes and the posts above) The sky is not falling Chicken Little! Z Edited February 16, 2012 by ZNICK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonaria Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I'm pretty sure the one dev post saying "it's not working as intended, we'll fix it in a patch" was posted a couple weeks ago and they've already fixed it, lol. Stop making problems when there ARE NONE! I RE'd blues to purple as well as greens to blues YESTERDAY. They didn't say they'd make every 3rd one a success... just "not as intended". I'm pretty sure now it's fine. (based upon my own successes and the posts above) The sky is not falling Chicken Little! Z If you look a few posts before.. I stated exactly that. The Dev post from Feb 6-12, 2012 said it's not working as intended. That wasn't a few weeks ago though... it's still not working as intended. Because I'm pretty sure no where in the Feb 14, 2012 patch did it say anything about fixing the RE return rate, and getting rid of "you already know that schematic." So pretty sure it's still not working as intended.. So it would be nice to know when it will be fixed/work as intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatB Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 This is not correct. When you consider the cost of a mission for the afore mentioned item, the return rate of 2 per mission, the cost of 4 per item attempt, the fail rate, the lack of that particular mission, the cost and time sink goes up exponentially. Except that, IIRC, it costs about 1950 or 2050 to do either of the rich grade 5 artifact missions, (i.e. the ones that give hypertech fragments) and IIRC you get about ~10 artifacts back, and since there are TWO good rich ones so almost always ONE of them is available, (and if not, a quick log out/in will fix that), and IIRC it's chance of failure is pretty much 0, as it goes grey around 390... (and even when orange mission failure rate is pretty darn low) I'm sorry, 1800? per? HAH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickwala Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Im a 400 armstech and have reversed about 7 different high level barrels and pistols over the past two weeks about 25it each and have gotten no purples, i did get some blues on a couple mid tier items but that is it. I am not saying its completely btoken but it does seem much harder to get purples now. Just my opinion from a daily crafter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackardin Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I'm pretty sure the one dev post saying "it's not working as intended, we'll fix it in a patch" was posted a couple weeks ago and they've already fixed it, lol. Stop making problems when there ARE NONE! I RE'd blues to purple as well as greens to blues YESTERDAY. They didn't say they'd make every 3rd one a success... just "not as intended". I'm pretty sure now it's fine. (based upon my own successes and the posts above) The sky is not falling Chicken Little! Z Its has not been changed, and your one day run of luck does not a sound system make. ;p I agree with you a bit. I've had em also, and in the interest of maintaining balance, have posted them. The average (mean) is not drastically out of balance. I want to make clear that I do not participate in bashing the developers. I think they did a great job. I'm loving the game and I do like this system. It needs to be tweaked is all. They know it, we know it, but I hope they take a bit of time to hear everything, think it through, rather then rush just to shut us all up. My posts are usually just to bring light to what I see and what affect it has on my gameplay. (I'm currently looking at that from a perspective of adequate acquisition of blue leveling gear, mid thirties.) I'm looking a bit at mean, medium, mode, revenue per level, etc. I've explained a few things from time to time, I've lightly demonstrated some, even with some hard numbers representing what was realized to be an excessive pattern. As I said, I love the game, but if I were to sum the need for adjustment up on this particular issue in a soundbite I'd have to say that right now, overall, its balanced more toward, "in the way" then it is fun. New launch, junk happens, little doubt that it will be addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astterion Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Really hope the Re patch comes soon, atm have re'ed 215 Redoubt Reflex.... am really tired of trying, havent gotten a single upgrade yet. Hell at this point id be happy even if it was the stupid presence one just so I could prove to myself that it does work. P.S. No thats not an exageration. Ive really killed that many frikin implants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgrigo Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Sad I am on the same boat on implants, more than 180 now and no crit. Eventualy maybe its time to move away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgrigo Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I don't want to see another post that its working and blah blah i did re 10 items .... Systems Designer Patrick Malott clarified an issue regarding the current state of reverse engineering: “The reverse engineering return rate is not currently working as intended. In an upcoming patch, we are improving the reverse engineering rates – especially for the higher-level items. We are also looking into the issue where a player receives "You already know that schematic" instead of learning a new research variation.” link is here http://www.swtor.com/blog/dev-tracker-summary-february-6th-2012-%E2%80%93-february-12th-2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vespertilius Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) I don't want to see another post that its working and blah blah i did re 10 items .... Systems Designer Patrick Malott clarified an issue regarding the current state of reverse engineering: “The reverse engineering return rate is not currently working as intended. In an upcoming patch, we are improving the reverse engineering rates – especially for the higher-level items. We are also looking into the issue where a player receives "You already know that schematic" instead of learning a new research variation.” link is here http://www.swtor.com/blog/dev-tracker-summary-february-6th-2012-%E2%80%93-february-12th-2012 I think it's very clear mate, but don't bother...realy... Plain stupidity and trolls are in the order of the day! No mater what, you will have always some one saying RE is just working fine... ... How sad it is! Edited February 16, 2012 by Vespertilius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wisz_Rethon Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) 152 167 reverse engineered blue ears; no purple schem and counting RE is not broken and works perfectly. Edited February 16, 2012 by Wisz_Rethon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackardin Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Except that, IIRC, it costs about 1950 or 2050 to do either of the rich grade 5 artifact missions, (i.e. the ones that give hypertech fragments) and IIRC you get about ~10 artifacts back, and since there are TWO good rich ones so almost always ONE of them is available, (and if not, a quick log out/in will fix that), and IIRC it's chance of failure is pretty much 0, as it goes grey around 390... (and even when orange mission failure rate is pretty darn low) I'm sorry, 1800? per? HAH! See, this contributes to the problem, when people attempt to pass off losely constructed conjecture as fact. The above assesment is totally incorrect. I've run the numbers as I was performing the tasks, and documented it all. Quickly demnstrated, This was done at the proper level for the item, so as to ascertain accurate figures for the level. One applicable mission was available per round. Only "moderate" missions became available. The cost per mission was 1020c each (moderate missions). Thirteen missions were run in order to assertain a blue pattern. 10 alien artifacts 2 failed missions 12 Hypers (item needed). Cost per Hyper calculated to be 1105c per (not all that far off from 1800c), not at all the absurdity the above poster attempted to demonstrate, especially when calculating the time involved, and overall cost per item. Extrapolating the numbers out, adding in the cost of the two additional gems, the filaments, the cost for 5 blue enhancements for my level 39 character was 60960c. Extrapolate out further to encompass the remaining mods required, the remaining gear upgrades for the level and the final cost was approximately 250k to 275k to gear this character in blues for a period of approximately two levels even when crafting mostly my own gear. It should also be noted that due to the time involved in running the missions, the amount of missions, for last 6 levels I've actually surpassed the level of the items before I could complete their production. The 6 previous levels, I waited to gear the character before proceeding, which took more time then actually leveling would have taken. I think that demonstrates enough of a problem to warrant further investigation as to whether there requires some adjustment to cost, time, RE rate (at least with leveling gear) I believe it also demonstrates, even using an extreme mark-up as the one demonstrated here-that the system does support mat farming, purchasing from farmers, and in fact, demonstrates that it can be both time efficient and cost effective (extreme marking up notwithstanding). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattius Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Really hope the Re patch comes soon, atm have re'ed 215 Redoubt Reflex.... am really tired of trying, havent gotten a single upgrade yet. Hell at this point id be happy even if it was the stupid presence one just so I could prove to myself that it does work. P.S. No thats not an exageration. Ive really killed that many frikin implants. I hit somewhere around 400 before I got the Artifact schem I was after. It's a grind that rewards those with the fortitude to stick it out. If everyone had all the schems, none of them would be worth anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larkie Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) I don't want to see another post that its working and blah blah i did re 10 items .... Systems Designer Patrick Malott clarified an issue regarding the current state of reverse engineering: “The reverse engineering return rate is not currently working as intended. In an upcoming patch, we are improving the reverse engineering rates – especially for the higher-level items. We are also looking into the issue where a player receives "You already know that schematic" instead of learning a new research variation.” link is here http://www.swtor.com/blog/dev-tracker-summary-february-6th-2012-%E2%80%93-february-12th-2012 I RE'd for about 10 minutes total this morning, while I was getting ready for work. 4 new purple schems: Level 45 Implant (Fervor) Level 33 Implant (Supremacy) Level 33 Implant (Leadership) Level 48 Command Reuseable Stimulant Guess they must have fixed RE overnight, sweet! Edited February 16, 2012 by Larkie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiLune Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 To the guy whining about something needing to be done about people that set high prices for mats -- Maybe it is a gold seller, maybe it isn't. But I don't sell "gold" and I certainly do buy up mats that are priced too low (low supply) and sell them for much higher prices (gouging/high demand.) It doesn't take a genious to play the market, but it apparently takes a spine to enter it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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