Sabbathius Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Really? As a Powertech, my greatest fears are Sentinals/Marauders. It really depends on a situation. If the Marauder notices my Powertech only after I tossed one or two DoTs on him, it's not too bad. On the other hand, if I notice the Marauder only when he charges me and starts his rotation, things get tough, especially if he has a brain and first thing he does is snare me. It's really a game of cooldowns. If my Shield cooldown is up, and maybe Kolto Overload, and he forgets he has Deadly Throw, I have a chance. If my shield is down, unless he's a total dunce it's GG. But yeah, well played Maras are scary. Possibly the scariest class you can come up with 1v1. Operatives are bad enough, but without any gap closer if you manage to get out of 10m range you're golden. But Maras? Unless you're out of 30m range, they'll get you. Even at 30+, between Force Cloak and Predation they can still catch you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordbishopX Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Agreed - was reading through this thread wondering why all these assassins are saying marauders will win. I guess all the assassins that stated that are deception or madness specced, because as my 23/1/17 darkness hybrid spec with DPS gear and a shield, I've never even come close to losing a 1v1 against a marauder/sentinel - they get chewed up and spit out as most of their damage is like having pennies thrown at me. Weird my eyes light up when I see a SIN/Shadow its go time for sure way easier fight for me lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabbathius Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) Agreed - was reading through this thread wondering why all these assassins are saying marauders will win. I guess all the assassins that stated that are deception or madness specced, because as my 23/1/17 darkness hybrid spec with DPS gear and a shield, I've never even come close to losing a 1v1 against a marauder/sentinel - they get chewed up and spit out as most of their damage is like having pennies thrown at me. It really depends on just how badly you want to win, and which CDs you have available. For example, one thing I almost never see Sins do is Force Cloak->Mind Trap->Seethe mid-fight. But in a duel that's pretty much an I-WIN button right there. OPs can do the exact same thing too. The thing is, you just blew a 3 min CD to win a fight. If you had it up in the first place. The main thing about Maras is that most of them suck. In PvE, it is by far the fastest-leveling class I ever played, and oddly enough more durable than even Merc. Merc is easier to play, but light on any serious defensive cooldowns. Meanwhile Mara in PvE with Quinn for backup is a cakewalk. But when you run into a well-played Mara whose gear is on par with yours and who will chain Obfuscate, Cloak, Camo, Ward, etc., while applying heavy DoTs, it gets nasty. Poorly played Mara, I can practically ignore them. Well played ones? Unless I do it by the book and FAST, I'm dead. They're also the only class that can really turn the tables on you with Undying Rage if you overextend. Edited February 16, 2012 by Sabbathius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 By even talking about how you can beat Marauders you're doing it wrong because you beat Marauders by not attacking them. They're not simply not the highest value target in any team fights. Those are always healers, and even the tank guarding the healer is usually of higher value than a Marauder. By delaying the fight against the Marauder you also greatly increase the chance that they won't have Cloak of Pain up (Cloak is negated by not attacking them), which is a huge part of their defensive arsenal. Marauders are generally one of the last guy you kill, not necessarily because they're weak, but because several of their cooldowns counters focus fire greatly (Cloak of Pain, Undying Rage, and Force Camo), and since they don't have much snare protection, it's actually not that dangerous to leave one alone while you get rid of his support first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordbishopX Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) Man I guess every time I see an alone mara/watchman or get jumped alone I better leave cause I must be doing it wrong lol. Where are all the pocket healers in open world pvp or even in wz games? Getting ganked is part of the fun especially when u hand the ganker their arse back lol. But all that's not what the op was asking and we just sharing experiences with both classes. Edited February 16, 2012 by LordbishopX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurfer Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Assassin's dominate in PvP. Even with only 4-5 champion pieces i'm breaking 600k dps every now and then. I am usually shocked if I am not #1 dps and have less than 40 kills and 10 medals in a typical WZ. I think it's one of THE best pvp classes by far, you won't regret leveling one for sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordbishopX Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Man with greatness like that where's the video? So the world can see how big ur epeen shines... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurfer Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Man with greatness like that where's the video? So the world can see how big ur epeen shines... You're the one with the epeen problems considering you're mad at my post. You're probably one of those baddies that run around with 150k total damage and claim it's not important even though you probably never saved a cap/targeted a healer in your life. I don't do videos because I give two ****s about epeen like you but here is the one screenshot I wasn't lazy enough to upload. http://i.imgur.com/sq0hd.jpg IF you want more i'll gladly get them out of my screenshot folder; it's a habit since my WoW days to take screenshots after pvp matches. I have 100's of them. Edit: More for you: http://i.imgur.com/JZkiA.jpg http://i.imgur.com/ojE7x.jpg http://i.imgur.com/qhFD3.jpg http://i.imgur.com/lkjTO.jpg Let me know if you want more honey bunny Edited February 17, 2012 by Kurfer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverYoung Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 obv u do a lot of dmg if there are a lot of healers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurfer Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 obv u do a lot of dmg if there are a lot of healers http://i.imgur.com/qhFD3.jpg I count 1 healer, that was also pocket healing his BH guildmate the entire match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athilias Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Really? As a Powertech, my greatest fears are Sentinals/Marauders. Pyro PTs are a Maruaders fear. FB kiting can get ridic against them, and they don't have much to counter it with. Something that can kite well, and burst well, is a Marauder's fear, that's basically what Pyro is all about. However, any other type of PT gets eaten up by Marauders. EDIT: To Kurfer, give us a recent match that wasn't abusing Pure Shockfrozen Water. Edited February 17, 2012 by Athilias Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pwnyride Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 You have to understand that when looking at your screenshots we can see that you are obviously madness or some sort of madness hybrid. Dmg numbers like that are easy to come by with the amount of dots and aoe avalible. Most players just run around and spam discharge to dot people and use wrath to aoe and scream OMG LOOK AT MY DMG. Amount of Dmg doesn't tell the whole story. If you place a single dot on a target then another player kills that target, you get credit for a kill even though you did very little work in the taking down of the target. If all you do is dot people up while everyone else does all the work while taking the enemies down, you will still have Huge numbers and high kills that equate to very little. Scrolling over your kills to show how many killing blows you achieved would be more benificial to stating a case since it will prove that you are actually the one achieving those kills. But if you are getting 50+ kills with only 3 KBs then obviously you are just a dot spammer. This post isnt an attempt to bash or be negative, I'm just letting you know why alot of people are skeptical of aoe/dot classes that post SS of ridiculous numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordbishopX Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) So u can't lmao nice lets see more pics of crap before the 50 vs scrub period was over ur epeen is large in this one. Hell those screens could be a sorc aoe spamming from hell easy as pie... Been taking note as to the damage on my server during matches since the 50 vs 50 onry been implemented and so far nobody has been hitting those numbers even close playing every day since then maybe its just my server lol. Edited February 17, 2012 by LordbishopX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordbishopX Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) You have to understand that when looking at your screenshots we can see that you are obviously madness or some sort of madness hybrid. Dmg numbers like that are easy to come by with the amount of dots and aoe avalible. Most players just run around and spam discharge to dot people and use wrath to aoe and scream OMG LOOK AT MY DMG. Amount of Dmg doesn't tell the whole story. If you place a single dot on a target then another player kills that target, you get credit for a kill even though you did very little work in the taking down of the target. If all you do is dot people up while everyone else does all the work while taking the enemies down, you will still have Huge numbers and high kills that equate to very little. Scrolling over your kills to show how many killing blows you achieved would be more benificial to stating a case since it will prove that you are actually the one achieving those kills. But if you are getting 50+ kills with only 3 KBs then obviously you are just a dot spammer. This post isnt an attempt to bash or be negative, I'm just letting you know why alot of people are skeptical of aoe/dot classes that post SS of ridiculous numbers. QFT fo sure Madness played poorly = 200-250k damage Madness played properly = 350-600k + Keep dots up on at least 3 people, learn how to master tab targeting. There is a true skill difference in how well people target. Good players don't have issues changing targets fast and identifying healers. Deathfield (recklessness on cooldown with this) Dot 3 people (save creeping terror for long range door/node capper stopping) Thrash on focus target (or healers) I like to use maul when dup procs The trick is to ALWAYS be around the fight, ALWAYS be engaged in combat and ALWAYS be doing something. You have to be a wild little kid and constantly have your abilities on global cooldown. If you find your force bar is full often and stagnant then you need to work on PvP awareness more than anything. No one spec/class will help overcome that... Make sure to hit 3 targets with DF but also don't just be a damage king; sometimes I save it for a door/node when we are light on people/under heavy pressure. It can save a game for your team. As you improve your skills in PvP you will start recognizing people by name in the WZ's and be able to understand who you've dotted up/duration to always maintain at least 3 dots. Dots are king in PvP, two WZ's it's simply game breaking when trying to hold a door/node. Also, Assassinate should be always used too, make SURE unit frames are enabled and help your team out by assassinating the low people. Really helps finish off stubborn healers and will ensure you top the charts in killing blows. Explains it all aoe dots and get high meaningless damage numbers the truth got to love it. Edited February 17, 2012 by LordbishopX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurfer Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 So u can't lmao nice lets see more pics of crap before the 50 vs scrub period was over ur epeen is large in this one. The two 600k damage ss are fairly recent. Try harder...you're just some random butt hurt scrub. I'm done with you, moving on to more intelligent people. You have to understand that when looking at your screenshots we can see that you are obviously madness or some sort of madness hybrid. Dmg numbers like that are easy to come by with the amount of dots and aoe avalible. Most players just run around and spam discharge to dot people and use wrath to aoe and scream OMG LOOK AT MY DMG. Amount of Dmg doesn't tell the whole story. If you place a single dot on a target then another player kills that target, you get credit for a kill even though you did very little work in the taking down of the target. If all you do is dot people up while everyone else does all the work while taking the enemies down, you will still have Huge numbers and high kills that equate to very little. Scrolling over your kills to show how many killing blows you achieved would be more benificial to stating a case since it will prove that you are actually the one achieving those kills. But if you are getting 50+ kills with only 3 KBs then obviously you are just a dot spammer. This post isnt an attempt to bash or be negative, I'm just letting you know why alot of people are skeptical of aoe/dot classes that post SS of ridiculous numbers. Honest debate, I've included a KB screenshot i'm sure I have more as I very often get killing blows. Our class the assassin is great at obtaining KB's; also if you play madness spec you will see that you just simply cannot JUST spread DOTS around and get those kind of numbers. If you've seen my posts in other threads, you would see that my pet peeve is that in order for madness to be good you still have to stick targets and utilize thrash/assassinate to generate raze/duplicity procs. Hard thrash hits and duplicity are one of the main benefits of this spec, not the dots. I maul like a mofo. I would agree with you for some classes but after playing this spec it's clear what makes it tick: Being around combat at all times, don't know about you but I try not to be out in the middle of nowhere looking for n00bs to pick off. The power of this spec is not dotting up randoms but dotting up the people around cap points. I'll take dots over raw melee here ANY day. Dots win games when you're outmatched defending a node. Sticking/Harassing healers like glue with melee DPS Picking off focused targets with assassinate; a good assassin is watching everyone around him. Our stuns/CC help frustrate healers and the good ones can quickly switch to a low target to help finish off and move right back to healers while alternating dots on the aggressive people around doors/basecaps. Those things make this class extremely worthy of the damage numbers, it's not just fluff from dots. You seem intelligent enough to realize that just spamming dots wont get it done and usually doesn't translate to wins. If you look at my SS you will notice most of them are wins. I play to win, damage comes with the territory. Again, you seem smart enough but IF you like I am sure I can find plenty of KB SS to satisfy. I'm going with the benefit of the doubt and not assuming you're using the whole "u just spam dots 2 get dmg" debate. Real players that play this spec with skill would argue that it isn't what makes it work. I routinely have people comment how often i'm around the brunt of combat, not some scrub running around tab targeting dots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordbishopX Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Wait ur unedited quoted post above states dots dots and more dots u forget that? Video please of 1 on 1 not spamming dots for numbers please. "Keep dots up on at least 3 people, learn how to master tab targeting. There is a true skill difference in how well people target. Good players don't have issues changing targets fast and identifying healers." Master the dots..... Dots are king in PvP, two WZ's it's simply game breaking when trying to hold a door/node. Also, Dots are king? Yeah king of epeen meaningless numbers in wz.... Edited February 17, 2012 by LordbishopX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurfer Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Yes, I've said it in my recent reply too. Dots dots and more dots, just intelligent dots. Can't get high damage spamming dots on random people; you may think that works but you're wrong. When in civil war or voidstar Dots are king. No argument in the world can change my stance on that. Iv'e literally won matches but being able to hold caps/defend doors because people trying to cap are all dotted. It is a game breaker if you're good enough to manage who you have them on; throwing it on some healer in the distance does nothing. Good players realize this...bad players whine about dots because they think they are what causes damage. 4k assasinates 3k total thrash crits 2.8kx3 deathfield crits 3.8 k maul crits stuns/instant cc/speed burst (to stay alive without healers) aoe taunt (keeps healers alive) That's what makes this spec dominate damage charts. You're trying to hard to discredit people's damage; you should really focus on trying to become a better player yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordbishopX Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Not discrediting any real damage but showing how ur damage is done simply dots and more dots and meanless AOE damage the trick is more dots for your numbers ur words not mine LMAO.... Wheres that wow video more dots more dots more dots with dots like that and aoe always on 3 peeps yeah ur numbers are high but = crap....... Any one can smell the bs ur cooking from ur own words ur a dot king thats pretty easy to see. No wonder no video lol we get a kick of how fast u change targets for dots lol. Edited February 17, 2012 by LordbishopX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurfer Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Not discrediting any real damage but showing how ur damage is done simply dots and more dots and meanless AOE damage the trick is more dots for your numbers.... You're not reading my posts with accuracy and detail. How can you expect me to have an honest debate with you when you ignore everything I write. Like I said, i'll move on to intelligent debates with smarter people, you're just not following the conversation or the argument. You really just have an extremely narrow minded view. Someone posts high damage and you go out of your way to "think up" ways on why any n00b can do it. Go spec madness; do nothing but dot players and come back with your 600k. My debate has been and will ALWAYS be "Dots are important for alot of things, damage is not one of them". You have to use DOTS with this spec; anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot. Madness is a dot spec, I get that...but to get GREAT damage you can't just tab dot people; you HAVE to 1v1 with thrash/maul/assassinate. Raze procs = important, duplicity = good, thrash crit bonus = FANFUKKINTASTIC. Wont happen. Until then, you should really lay off. Edited February 17, 2012 by Kurfer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordbishopX Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Just spec into more dots I rather kill someone with real numbers than spam dots to get high numbers lol. Time to go eat at dots a great place lol. Edited February 17, 2012 by LordbishopX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurfer Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Also, When you say 1v1 I translate that as close quarters melee dps against key targets such as focus/healers. If by 1v1 you mean finding some guy away from the fight then I can't compute that concept because you wont find me away from the brunt of the fight. I'll leave that to n00bs finding other n00bs who get lost in combat. If I see some guy all alone doing nothing I ignore him, i'll let some other idiot go chase him down for a solo kill. I refuse to play that way... Huttball you should be around the ball like an allpro linebacker Voidstar you should be trying to stealth cap/kill/help your team cap and utilize the strength of dots to hold off doors esp when outnumbered. Alderaan I can maybe see 1v1 being something that happens here if you try to stealth cap nodes but I find myself winning much more by maintaining a dps presence around the most heavily contended node and using my speed burst to alternate defense when we hold a 2 cap. Feel free to tell me if your idea of 1v1 differs from mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkenwolf Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 ... intelligent dots. Can't get high damage spamming dots on random people; you may think that works but you're wrong. When in civil war or voidstar Dots are king. No argument in the world can change my stance on that. Iv'e literally won matches but being able to hold caps/defend doors because people trying to cap are all dotted. It is a game breaker if you're good enough to manage who you have them on; throwing it on some healer in the distance does nothing. Good players realize this...bad players whine about dots because they think they are what causes damage. 4k assasinates 3k total thrash crits 2.8kx3 deathfield crits 3.8 k maul crits stuns/instant cc/speed burst (to stay alive without healers) aoe taunt (keeps healers alive) That's what makes this spec dominate damage charts. This x10. The wtfomgtabdischargedotspamlolwinnarz!11! argument is really getting tiresome. 5 minutes with the spec should be enough to illustrate the fact that Tab Discharge Spam Syndrome not only isn't fun, but its wildly ineffective. You'd be more useful spamming Saber Strike an entire match. You'd also put up better stats. Managing a rotation of 3 DOTs isn't spam, it's rolling force regen through Deathmark - what separates the good from the adequate is being able to maintain DoT/Deathfield discipline over the long term. Anything more than 3 DOTs is inefficient, actually drops your DPS as you sacrifice Force and GCD by not using other skills, and ultimately is just a real annoyance to micromanage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pwnyride Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Those things make this class extremely worthy of the damage numbers, it's not just fluff from dots This was mainly all that I was looking for, that you use your dots to apply pressure, prevention of node capping, and to suppliment your dps rotation. Not that you run off from defending/attacking a node b/c u see 4 players grouped up that could give you an extra 25k to overall dmg done by the time they kill you like i see alot of players do. They will let a ball carrier just walk by them because well, theres more people to aoe/dot over here. I absolutly love this spec, but i see alot of people that exploit it to make themsleves look like skillfull players that really don't benifit the overall objective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurfer Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Just spec into more dots I rather kill someone with real numbers than spam dots to get high numbers lol. Time to go eat at dots a great place lol. I don't even know what this means to be honest. Show me your real numbers, what do you mean by real numbers? I usually get anywhere from 14-25 killing blows from my matches. Some would say that could be an inflated stat too, standing around picking off low health people could be just as bad as some n00b spamming dots all day. The real problem here is that you're like a broken record saying that these assassin dps numbers are coming from dots yet you admit you never played that spec. So you're basing it on what? Play the spec, spam dots and tell me you top the charts...doesn't work that way. You have to melee dps to get those damage numbers, you have to do it alot. But you also have to target people and spread the dots...you basically have to be hotkeying everything and abusing your keyboard to get these numbers...if you think it's just dots then I will ensure you that you're wrong. Stop arguing without trying it first... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordbishopX Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) This was mainly all that I was looking for, that you use your dots to apply pressure, prevention of node capping, and to suppliment your dps rotation. Not that you run off from defending/attacking a node b/c u see 4 players grouped up that could give you an extra 25k to overall dmg done by the time they kill you like i see alot of players do. They will let a ball carrier just walk by them because well, theres more people to aoe/dot over here. I absolutly love this spec, but i see alot of people that exploit it to make themsleves look like skillfull players that really don't benifit the overall objective. Dot kings exist not for wins just numbers its simple want bigger numbers just dot everyone death field spam its simple doesn't mean jack but epeen numbers for the lose. You don't have to read between the lines on it it is a given look at my damage now how was that crazy number gotten tab dot tab dot tab dot death field as much as possible simple effective dot mastering for numbers. Edited February 17, 2012 by LordbishopX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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