Watchman pvp questions

[CarriesMatrix]

I am trying to get my watchmen spec'ed how i want him for pvp, I have seen a couple videos of good fights, and peoples spec's but no one seems to put points in a few things and i was curious why.

 

#1 in watchman you kinda depending on slash to reset the cd on cauterize for extra bleed dmg, so why not use the Swift slash trait from focus line?

 

#2 Rebuke gets some nice love with the watchmen line by allowing you to reduce the cd for every successful Riposte, but i don't seem to see anyone put points into Jedi crusader which gives focus on rebuke dmg. That seems like a logical choice for extra focus to burn when your getting attacks or in a 1v1.

 

#3 i see a lot of people maxing out duel wield mastery, and for the life of me I can't figure this one out. It seems like DW mastery adds such a rediculously low amount of dmg especially for a line dependent on bleeds why are you watchmen spec pvpers using DW mastery?

 

 

I am sure i will have more questions later but any answers to these would be aprieciated.

 

 

Oh and also whats your standard rotation? from focus building> final attack (keep in mind i don't have merciless slash yet)

 

Focus seems to be an issue when trying to run all 4 bleeds at once (cauterize, 3 overload bleeds)

 

 

Thought of this late, but can you use overload sabre + cyclone slash to dot multiple targets?

Edited February 14, 2012 by CarriesMatrix

[SteveGarbage]

I don't play PvP but here are my thoughts:

 

1) My guess is the main reason is it takes spending 7 points in Focus which are better spent in Combat. The addition of up to 15 percent critical on Slash doesn't seem worth it to me. You're burning points in Insight which doesn't benefit a majority of your skills. Master Focus, at least, gives you a nice CD reduction to Stasis.

 

2) For me at least, and I feel like a lot of other players, Riposte is out of the equation. I don't use it at all because of its 3 Focus cost and it screws up management of my Focus. Also I don't think a lot of people take Recompense over the Slash/Sweep talents at first tier Watchman and certainly I wouldn't go back and pick them up at later levels since each level has better skills worth taking. Also, the Jedi Crusader can only grant you one focus every three seconds. That's a nice add, but it seems like there are better places to spend points.

 

3) The damage from dual wield mastery may seem small, but you're increasing your offhand damage from 30 percent to 66 percent. If your offhand saber does 200 damage, you've increased your damage by 72 damage per hit. I'd say that's pretty substantial and definitely worth the three points.

 

I support spending points in Combat. You get Dual Wield, Defensive Forms (which is great for boosting your centering) and Defensive Roll which is a nice damage protection. Personally I like Focused Leap for some additional focus generation too.

 

As to your Cyclone Slash question, I haven't fully tested it but I think the answer is no, it hits multiples but only spreads the burn to one. I believe someone said they think it's the left-most target, although no one seems to have tested it extensively.

 

As for rotations/attack patterns in PvP, I'll leave that to someone more versed in the sport than I.

Edited February 14, 2012 by SteveGarbage

[Psybin]

Personally speaking I very rarely use slash. Only when everything else is on CD and I have too much focus. It can be too easy to spam all your focus on slash only to find you dont have enough when your important things come off CD. Namely cautarise, overload and merciless.

Merciless slash usually resets cautarise if anything does.

I just saw the end of your post, if you do not have merciless yet, then yes you will be slashing like crazy. But if you haven't got merciless yet, there's no point worrying about the other trees..

 

I hardly ever use reposte (waste of focus), and would never talent it. But I like to put one point into jedi crusader. An extra free focus every 3s is nice. I find 2 points a waste.

 

Your offhand damage is added directly to your mainhand. So 0.66 multiplied by the base sabre damage is alot better than 0.3.

Its worth noting that Merciless slash uses your offhand. So DW mastery directly increases it's damage.

 

 

There is no rotation. More like a priority list.

[Dagimpster]

#1 merc strike (or whatever its called is what i rely on 66% chance compared to 33% with slash. Just read u dont have it yet....

 

 

#2& 3, the reason most people put 3 point there is we want to get into the 2nd teir and the other optoin in 1 point there and 2 in Jedi Crusdaer, but as watchmen you aren't focused straved so jedi crusader is pointless.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Dagimpster

[CarriesMatrix]

I dunno i kinda feel focus starved after using overload sabre + cauterize thats 6 focus right away then i still need to use 3 more skills to obtain the 3 bleed effects from overload sabre.

 

Most of the time I find my self lacking focus when i need it, and i have too much focus when i don't need it and end up using slash over and over

[SteveGarbage]

I dunno i kinda feel focus starved after using overload sabre + cauterize thats 6 focus right away then i still need to use 3 more skills to obtain the 3 bleed effects from overload sabre.

 

Most of the time I find my self lacking focus when i need it, and i have too much focus when i don't need it and end up using slash over and over

 

First off, Cauterize+OS is only five focus, not six. If you Leap-OS-Zealous Strike-Cauterize, that will leave you with a net of +4.

 

Focus management is a challenge for Watchman. That's one of the reasons why I took Focused Leap in Combat to get the extra one every time I use leap. Remember, though, as you get higher up the Watchman tree, your burns will also have a chance to grant focus, which can help boost your bottom line.

 

The long and short of it is, you'll probably have to end up using Strike here and there. It's low damage but when Zealous Strike and Leap are on CD, you really don't have many other good choices — except for Stasis, but in PvP, it's something you probably want to save AND also leaves you standing there while it channels. The key is only throwing in Strike when you need it, though, in order to keep your DPS up.

 

It's hard to explain. For me it's more of a "You'll get a feel for it" the more you play it. There's sometimes when you get out of rhythm, but the more you get your hands into Watchman eventually you'll just know when your OS ready again and when you need to build focus and when you can afford to burn it. I know that's 100 percent NOT helpful but it really does become somewhat of an instinct thing.

Edited February 14, 2012 by SteveGarbage

[Dagimpster]

First off, Cauterize+OS is only five focus, not six. If you Leap-OS-Zealous Strike-Cauterize, that will leave you with a net of +4.

 

Focus management is a challenge for Watchman. That's one of the reasons why I took Focused Leap in Combat to get the extra one every time I use leap. Remember, though, as you get higher up the Watchman tree, your burns will also have a chance to grant focus, which can help boost your bottom line.

 

The long and short of it is, you'll probably have to end up using Strike here and there. It's low damage but when Zealous Strike and Leap are on CD, you really don't have many other good choices — except for Stasis, but in PvP, it's something you probably want to save AND also leaves you standing there while it channels. The key is only throwing in Strike when you need it, though, in order to keep your DPS up.

 

It's hard to explain. For me it's more of a "You'll get a feel for it" the more you play it. There's sometimes when you get out of rhythm, but the more you get your hands into Watchman eventually you'll just know when your OS ready again and when you need to build focus and when you can afford to burn it. I know that's 100 percent NOT helpful but it really does become somewhat of an instinct thing.

 

dont leap into a fight you will get knocked back and rooted right away...

[Psybin]

In my opinion, no matter what spec you are you cannot have too much focus or centering. So I choose the talents to boost them.

Namely burning focus + 1 point into jedi crusader and focused leap. And valour + defensive forms.

More focus = more skills = more DPS. You don't have to worry about finding the extra focus for things like kick, leg slash and dispatch. You should be able to pop them on CD if required without adversely effecting your main abilities.

More centering = more zen = more DPS and healing. With valour and defensive forms you can almost spam zen.

 

 

You can leap into a fight in PvP. Provided your target is not stood out in the open. If you put yourself between them and a solid object their knockback is moot. And there are a lot of examples that can be used.

Alderaan: The turrets themselves make a great stopper. Also the back walls on the left/right. NEVER place yourself where the knock back will send you over the edge of the platform..

Voidstar: The pillars near the doors and the doors themselves are great stoppers.

Huttball: This place is the worst for us really. But there are actually quite a few posts that can be used. Even the fire pit posts work. In worse case scenario an upwards ramp reduces the distance travelled a lot.

Always always watch where you are in relation to people in this place. Think about here you will fly if a knock back is used at any point.

Little boxes/cover walls dont work, but some of the big ones do.

[CarriesMatrix]

i just wanted to reply and say thanks, I put some of these things into practice, and I ended up trying jedi crusader anyway. I can't say i am ever sad at having too much focus whenever i am in surplus now i just spam my aoes near the cap points and do tons of dmg to people trying to plant a bomb or whatever.

 

I ended up taking riposte out of my rotation as well which also helped a lot. I may end up trying 1-2 points in dw but i doubt i will max it. I haven't quite decided on what else is more important with just 1 point in jedi crusader all my focus problems disappeared I think honestly i won't be going for the 1 extra focus on force leap unless i find my focus costs increase with merciless slash added into the rotation.

[EclatDeGivre]

@SteveGarbage : I think you may be wrong about Insight.

Insight increases the critical chance or your force attacks. Cauterize and OS DoT are force attacks. The initial impact of cauterize is definitely weapon damage but the DoT is SpellType=>Force. Thus Insight is very important for Watchmen.

 

@OP : Riposte is very good but also very situational. Watchman is complicated enough to bypass it. However when I compare it to cyclone and force sweep reduction cost/cd, well. I prefer having to option to riposte and reduce my rebuke CD as rebuke is so, so good (at least that's what she said). In the end it's a matter of preference. Tiny aoe up, or more flexibility. As I very often go for 1v1 situations, I completely forget abt aoe... However with OS/Cauterize/Merciless Slash/Master strike/Blade Storm in the equation, well, tough to add riposte in it. But riposte is definitely the best DPS of all. Yes it requires 3 focus. But compare riposte + strike instead, as riposte is off GCD. Riposte + Strike costs 1 focus. Compare riposte + strike dps to any other skill. In terms of raw dps and dps/focus it's by far the best. Then on the paper it's easy. Sents are so difficult to play optimally =)

 

I agree though with 2 points in Jedi crusader is a waste. 1 is far enough and the second talent point is just better used somewhere else.

 

And yeah focus management is a challenge in watchman more than anywhere else. Even more with Merciless Slash.