AkemManah Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) I dont belive a DPS/heal meter will get in, as it will show how unbalanced the game is. Pure speculation is purely speculative. I am pro personal combat meters for theory crafting and learning your tools/stats in order to at least somewhat maximize potential. I really don't care about the others, they are basically useless unless you are in a top notch raiding guild that insists on full maximization prior to raiding, which in this game is pointless at this time. The fact is, once damage meters are incorporated "cookie cutter" specs will be the norm and it will begin a whole new line of arguments involving playing your character as you see fit instead of playing the most efficient character for your role. A whole realm of issues derive from that and as far as I am concerned I want no part in it. I understand why many people want them, they are used to it, it makes them feel good, it allows them to show off, it also allows them to rule out players due to ineptitude (which may be the ONLY ok thing it does). Anything else can be obtained via personal meters. From the days of EQ, it is pretty easy to see who pulls weight and who doesn't without dps meters. Edited February 14, 2012 by AkemManah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jett-Rinn Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I really would not expect them any time soon...and you have the "People who don't want meters r badz derp" to thank for that. Here is some advice in the future.....trying to make a case to add a feature doesn't work if you prove to the developers that every negative thing the other side is saying about you is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guzul Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 It's coming pretty soon. 1.2 will bring the combatlog so we will be ok. I think I read that somewhere... I wish. Oh btw everyone who use the dps meter is a elitist jerk EVERYONE. Even the one who complains agains it. They all become self-fish idiots who just think about there numbers. Even the ppl who doesn't play the game become moronic because of this addon. I heard some aliens want to invade the earth because they think they could do more dps than us. Damn dps meters all our problems are related to you even the global warming. Very few doesn't equal majority. Stop focusing on the bad apples, they are far less than what you think. But hey it's not a debate threat so nevermind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miliways Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 You guys know the devs said they have an internal damage meter, they're okay with theorycrafters, and they'd likely release the dps meter to us soon, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatax Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 In a way part of me kinda likes the no damage meters thing. The game is new, and people are free to play with their specs, for now. It sucks when you can't really play the style you like to play AND succeed in the end game because you are herded into a spec you don't enjoy. In WoW I hated having to be a survival hunter or combat rogue when it bored the crap out of me just so I could raid, and that was purely based on "this spec does 2% more damage!" With damage meters, we will see the same thing here. However, the rest of me wants to know I'm doing the best I can. Was the guy telling me that power is the must have secondary stat for a mercenary correct? Or am I right in thinking that crit chance is better? Sure theory says I have a valid point and reason to believe I'm right, but the damage meters will prove me right or wrong. And like most others, I don't enjoy grouping with terrible players. I don't like to alienate people based on bad performance, but I do like to help them improve. Without the meters you really just don't know what you are doing wrong, and you can't improve if you don't know how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanSnowWolf Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 My problem with damage meters is it creates the false idea that people with high DPS are good. They aren't. I've had plenty of groups where I would do say, 1200... and another guy would do 2000.. and the leader wanted to boot me for sucking. Here's the thing.. Mr. Tunnel Vision was standing in fire, not doing his interrupts, not clicking the consoles, not paying attention to the group, not watching his aggro, and basically doing nothing except hitting that max DPS. Yeah, I did barely over half his... but my *** was off-healing, removing poisons, and doing the things the fight requires. Bigger numbers are not always good, and MANY people are too stupid or lazy to check parsers for other factors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibervang Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Pure speculation is purely speculative. I am pro personal combat meters for theory crafting and learning your tools/stats in order to at least somewhat maximize potential. I really don't care about the others, they are basically useless unless you are in a top notch raiding guild that insists on full maximization prior to raiding, which in this game is pointless at this time. The fact is, once damage meters are incorporated "cookie cutter" specs will be the norm and it will begin a whole new line of arguments involving playing your character as you see fit instead of playing the most efficient character for your role. A whole realm of issues derive from that and as far as I am concerned I want no part in it. I understand why many people want them, they are used to it, it makes them feel good, it allows them to show off, it also allows them to rule out players due to ineptitude (which may be the ONLY ok thing it does). Anything else can be obtained via personal meters. From the days of EQ, it is pretty easy to see who pulls weight and who doesn't without dps meters. I never said i wanted them. Personaly i dont care so much if they ever gets in. I think there are like a million more importent things to fix, instead of adding something as small as this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elecious Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 get over it, whats the big deal really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guzul Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) My problem with damage meters is it creates the false idea that people with high DPS are good. They aren't. I've had plenty of groups where I would do say, 1200... and another guy would do 2000.. and the leader wanted to boot me for sucking. Here's the thing.. Mr. Tunnel Vision was standing in fire, not doing his interrupts, not clicking the consoles, not paying attention to the group, not watching his aggro, and basically doing nothing except hitting that max DPS. Yeah, I did barely over half his... but my *** was off-healing, removing poisons, and doing the things the fight requires. Bigger numbers are not always good, and MANY people are too stupid or lazy to check parsers for other factors. 800 dps is a lot. Maybe your example isn't good enough or you can't do 2 things at the same time just like the other player. Edited February 14, 2012 by Guzul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkemManah Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I never said i wanted them. Personaly i dont care so much if they ever gets in. I think there are like a million more importent things to fix, instead of adding something as small as this. Agreed. With end game as lacking as it is, there really is no need for them at this point. Personal damage meters for pvp would be nice however. That is one area where I like to know what is "really" going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PjPablo Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 My problem with damage meters is it creates the false idea that people with high DPS are good. They aren't. I've had plenty of groups where I would do say, 1200... and another guy would do 2000.. and the leader wanted to boot me for sucking. Here's the thing.. Mr. Tunnel Vision was standing in fire, not doing his interrupts, not clicking the consoles, not paying attention to the group, not watching his aggro, and basically doing nothing except hitting that max DPS. Yeah, I did barely over half his... but my *** was off-healing, removing poisons, and doing the things the fight requires. Bigger numbers are not always good, and MANY people are too stupid or lazy to check parsers for other factors. That has nothing to do with the tool. that is just a terrible group leader. If people only go for numbers and do not watch what they are doing otherwise they will be held accountable in a normal group. Once again, not the tools fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exilicus Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 For all of you who are asking for combat logs, new ui features, dual spec, a working AH, dungeon finder, legacy system, hi res textures, a functional tab-target system, camera options, macros, transferable keybinds, ETC. please try to keep in mind, the people your deaing with have been trying to fix global cooldowns for 1 year of beta and 6 week of release and about 7 different patches, and every patch they put in trying to fix GCD breaks somthing else. Requiring them to take the servers down 1-2 days after maintenance to unbreak what the fixed. I for 1 just want them to stop trying to fix anything so that my gaming experience stops going from bad to worse weekly. Dont add anything dont patch anything im happy with this game the way it is, as half a game. You should not feel like failures BW just because everquest had working GCDs, macros, and a combat log at release in 1999. BABY STEPS no pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dachosen Posted February 14, 2012 Author Share Posted February 14, 2012 My problem with damage meters is it creates the false idea that people with high DPS are good. They aren't. I've had plenty of groups where I would do say, 1200... and another guy would do 2000.. and the leader wanted to boot me for sucking. Here's the thing.. Mr. Tunnel Vision was standing in fire, not doing his interrupts, not clicking the consoles, not paying attention to the group, not watching his aggro, and basically doing nothing except hitting that max DPS. Yeah, I did barely over half his... but my *** was off-healing, removing poisons, and doing the things the fight requires. Bigger numbers are not always good, and MANY people are too stupid or lazy to check parsers for other factors. it also can show several other statistics if they add them.Like damage taken per second and heal taken per second (which helps healers after a wipe to check what went wrong), intrupts and energy/force/ammo gains, CC breakers , Friendly fire , who hits who during a fight (so u can call out the actual meter no.1 wannabies who ignore adds to stand on top) etc. So in the end log tracking is not all about dps for any serious raider. i believe u didnt read this reply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkemManah Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) I do feel that damage meters encourage taking people with maximized dps over cc and support specs, which will make many spec's obsolete. I am sick and tired of mmo's creating cc or support style trees then making them useless by emphasizing dps over tactics. *edited for errors Edited February 14, 2012 by AkemManah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanSnowWolf Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 800 dps is a lot. Maybe your example isn't good enough or you can't do 2 things at the same time just like the other player. No one can do two things at the same time. It's called a global cooldown. In any given 2 second period, I can press an attack button OR a healing/utility button. Everytime I have to push one of the latter, I lose DPS. The other idiot does not. Hence the gap. Multiply by the duration of the fight. You fail at logic. So you are probably one of these people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanSnowWolf Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 i believe u didnt read this reply And you didn't read the part where I mentioned that people are too stupid or lazy to use it for anything other than DPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guzul Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) i believe u didnt read this reply No dps meter only show the dps. That's what everyone again it say... But we all know that by now. They just the same old excuses and they always ignore that simple fact that prove them wrong. Edited February 14, 2012 by Guzul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englefield Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 ...So in the end log tracking is not all about dps for any serious raider. Not that I disagree with you, but have you considered that this game has not been created for the serious raider? I get the impression that this game is just not that sort of game and that perhaps we should accept tor for what it is and not try and force it to be something it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novastinger Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Adding a combat log is my #1 most desired feature at this point, as it's really absurd they don't have one considering how much they enjoy enrage mechanics. There's no upside to omitting it, though my guess is they just haven't completed the development work on it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guzul Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) No one can do two things at the same time. It's called a global cooldown. In any given 2 second period, I can press an attack button OR a healing/utility button. Everytime I have to push one of the latter, I lose DPS. The other idiot does not. Hence the gap. Multiply by the duration of the fight. You fail at logic. So you are probably one of these people. /faceplam... so you can't move and dps? So you heal when your role is to dps. So you wait a 2-3 sec each 1,5 sec GCD. Are you interupting every GCD too? Edited February 14, 2012 by Guzul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonAgeOrgins Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 No recount will ever be added into the game. (Hopefully) you do understand why? recount doesn't tell you who is top heals, or who stunned who. Who used buff's during the combat. All it does is tell you the DPS scores. So why do we need recount? we don't. In warcraft those game's were designed around raiding. People became used to the add on, and in some cases even depended on them. However if we all had chance to go back, would we allow recount in game? The answer is a massive no. In warcraft there was no way to keep player's from creating a billion add on's, therefore no control over it. However in this game we have a fresh start. To be honest the community in game isn't that bad compared to warcraft. Why would you want to ruin all that, and add recount. It makes the community worse then it is, also it makes player's increase the speed they finish content. That's why warcraft is getting stale people aren't "Looking at the content" their tunnel vision is on DPS and they complete hard modes in first week and complain for more content. Furthermore, It's not needed. The only argument people have for it, is the enrage timer on nightmare mod. It's simple remove the enrage timer. Back in everquest we didn't have a million mod's. We had to depend on each other, and we STill cleared content. Why fix something, that's not broken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guzul Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) No recount will ever be added into the game. (Hopefully) you do understand why? recount doesn't tell you who is top heals, or who stunned who. Who used buff's during the combat. All it does is tell you the DPS scores. It's funny mine did in WoW. I look at it for so many things and not just the pure "dps". Like someone said before it show everything even the damage taken and by what. Edited February 14, 2012 by Guzul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PjPablo Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 No recount will ever be added into the game. (Hopefully) you do understand why? recount doesn't tell you who is top heals, or who stunned who. Who used buff's during the combat. All it does is tell you the DPS scores. So why do we need recount? we don't. In warcraft those game's were designed around raiding. People became used to the add on, and in some cases even depended on them. However if we all had chance to go back, would we allow recount in game? The answer is a massive no. In warcraft there was no way to keep player's from creating a billion add on's, therefore no control over it. However in this game we have a fresh start. To be honest the community in game isn't that bad compared to warcraft. Why would you want to ruin all that, and add recount. It makes the community worse then it is, also it makes player's increase the speed they finish content. That's why warcraft is getting stale people aren't "Looking at the content" their tunnel vision is on DPS and they complete hard modes in first week and complain for more content. Furthermore, It's not needed. The only argument people have for it, is the enrage timer on nightmare mod. It's simple remove the enrage timer. Back in everquest we didn't have a million mod's. We had to depend on each other, and we STill cleared content. Why fix something, that's not broken? Might want to go research Recount a bit before posting about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonAgeOrgins Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Might want to go research Recount a bit before posting about it. Might want to stop asking for recount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exilicus Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Might want to stop asking for recount. You have so little idea what you actually talking about its staggering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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