Deception - I just don't get it

[insendial]

All Warzones are objective based. As Darkness I can stop a whole team from capping an objective long enough for backup to arrive. I can do this because my damage is sustained.

Without my sustained damage the objective would be lost and difficult to get back.

 

Both Darkness and Deception specs are valuable in war zones. Madness I dunno, never tried it.

 

All three specs can do that when played properly. Overload at the objective, Cloak->Shroud->Blackout. Wait for 5 secs on cap, Lacerate 3x. If your team isn't back by the time you die, you have bigger issues than your spec (namely, your team is bad).

Edited February 14, 2012 by insendial

[FinDevil]

I'm have 7 champion pieces and once i got, 4.500 damage from project and right after 3 x 1800 from telekinetic throw and execute 3200. thats 4 seconds 13k damage as darkness spec, or kintetic for me cause shadow. Safe to say the other dude died.

[Cowflab]

All I'm seeing from the complainers in this thread is PEBKAC. If you get KBd use electrocute as you're flying back and sprint back to them and lock them down. You're not going to win every skirmish you get into but deception has a pretty large toolbox to draw from. You shouldn't be going head first into the fray as I'm assuming most here whining about survivability do. Force cloak + frozen water or force cloak + mind trap + seethe have won me more battles than I can count. I guess people would rather mindlessly zerg in a tank spec than use their brains.

[RamzaBehoulve]

Sure can. Might even be able to do it with one if I was crazy enough to use an adrenal while I have WZ buff on (that's total overkill and a waste of clicks).

 

People who say you do more damage in Deception are deluding yourself. It isn't even like Madness where you at least appear to do more damage. You flat out don't do more damage and take considerably more risk, which is why the spec is weak.

 

Rofl, Darkness damage is nowhere near Deception

 

I do at least 50% more per WZ in Deception/Madness than Darkness. Thing is, there is not point in more than 300k, so might as well stay alive longer.

Edited February 14, 2012 by RamzaBehoulve

[FinDevil]

All I'm seeing from the complainers in this thread is PEBKAC. If you get KBd use electrocute as you're flying back and sprint back to them and lock them down. You're not going to win every skirmish you get into but deception has a pretty large toolbox to draw from. You shouldn't be going head first into the fray as I'm assuming most here whining about survivability do. Force cloak + frozen water or force cloak + mind trap + seethe have won me more battles than I can count. I guess people would rather mindlessly zerg in a tank spec than use their brains.

 

I see tank spec alot more valuable for a team in warzone. I always get more kills as tank spec compared to others with madness or deception. My best so far is 79 kills and i only have 7 champ pieces. I rarely died in any warzone and i can run and guard tower alone, if two come they wount leave alive, if 3 come i get help before i die, if 4 come i hide and mezz and harrash them untill help arrive. I have not lost a tower for along time, i really like tank spec it's pretty immortal and can hit like a hammer.

[Cowflab]

I see tank spec alot more valuable for a team in warzone. I always get more kills as tank spec compared to others with madness or deception. My best so far is 79 kills and i only have 7 champ pieces. I rarely died in any warzone and i can run and guard tower alone, if two come they wount leave alive, if 3 come i get help before i die, if 4 come i hide and mezz and harrash them untill help arrive. I have not lost a tower for along time, i really like tank spec it's pretty immortal and can hit like a hammer.

 

I'm not saying darkness isn't good or that it doesn't serve a purpose. I'm saying people blame their lack of class knowledge and "skill" on the spec rather than looking internally at what they could have done better in any given encounter. That coupled with the fact that most are expecting to win 90-100% of their skirmishes. That's not realistic, nor balanced. You can however overcome some of these deficiencies with a bit of thought and execution.

[Vyrulence]

Sure can. Might even be able to do it with one if I was crazy enough to use an adrenal while I have WZ buff on (that's total overkill and a waste of clicks).

 

that's total overkill and a waste of clicks

 

clicks

 

Not sure if srs

[Cowflab]

Not sure if srs

 

Im sure he is based on the baseless posts he makes with such conviction.

[Monkeylint]

I have very limited PvP experience, never been my focus in MMOs I've played before. I have no PvP gear yet. I have no HM gear yet. Basically, I'm outfitted in end of Corellia gear.

 

But as a Deception Assassin, I still get at least a 5:1 Kill: Death ratio every time in my limited 50 bracket warzone experience. Anyone who's complaining about dying all the time as Deception should respec, because they clearly aren't following a play style suited to Deception. If they're running into a pack of red names, even with a healer they are going to die, and fast!

 

As someone on these boards so succinctly put it: "What part of 'Deception' don't you understand?"

Edited February 14, 2012 by Monkeylint

[Deridia]

Every time I come read the boards I leave confused and worried... Then I log on to my sin and tear it up and think to myself.. What the hell are these people talking about.

 

I see so much QQing about survivability of Deception and honestly I never have an issue with it. I use my stealth to pick out my target, use my stuns/knock downs to keep him isolated and from casting. Mow him down and then get the hell out of town. If anything I would like a higher crit chance while in deception or a little (5-10% more base damage) but i sure as hell don't need/want any more survivability.

 

Is it me or am I just crazy. Honestly after I use up my first regen (attack from stealth) and have poped my second regen and used it... WEll I'm total crap as far as dps so I have no business sticking around for long periods of time. I need to jump in, blow someone up (maybe two people depending how long it took me to kill the first one and if I have my second regen up) then ****.

 

From what I am reading I am just guessing that people are trying to play deception like a marauder or a tank. This spec is not a go in there and beat on people for an hour (thats darkness).

 

Is that the issue? Is there something I am missing?

 

Most sins who try deception were darkness first. You may not see a problem with survivability but when compared to darkness, it's laughable. It's very difficult to go from being unkillable 1v1 to being a squishy mess (by comparison).

[Cowflab]

Most sins who try deception were darkness first. You may not see a problem with survivability but when compared to darkness, it's laughable. It's very difficult to go from being unkillable 1v1 to being a squishy mess (by comparison).

 

If you're losing 1v1s as deception, you have more problems than the spec. 1v1 is where the spec shines, as you pretty much have the ability to dictate every scenario in the encounter on your own terms. Playing it like a tank and dying is not the specs fault. It's yours.

[Exiled-Phoenix]

I honestly prefer deception, the force regen is better and you can quickly take down most of your targets HP.

The problem is that if your target isnt dead when you run out of force..well either pick him off with sabre strikes and low cost attacks and hope no one comes to heal him or force cloak and retry.

 

Or (ab)use force cloak to get that extra force regen when exiting stealth and finish it off.

[Cowflab]

I honestly prefer deception, the force regen is better and you can quickly take down most of your targets HP.

The problem is that if your target isnt dead when you run out of force..well either pick him off with sabre strikes and low cost attacks and hope no one comes to heal him or force cloak and retry.

 

Or (ab)use force cloak to get that extra force regen when exiting stealth and finish it off.

 

I don't really consider it abuse.

 

Regen from stealth>force cloak 6 second regen>blackout is just using the tools as intended.

[Bewtzor]

I do well as a deception sin, but even I recognize I would be doing better if I was darkness.

 

Deception offers a moderate increase dps, at a high cost to survivability. I really wish we had some sort of healing debuff. We don't need any more dps, but when healers can just stand their in an aoe heal and spam heal themselves until we are out of all our cooldowns and regen, it can be frustrating.

 

 

Deception offers a huge boost to dps, but a moderate reduction in overall damage compared to darkness. The only way darkness could keep up with deception dps is if they consistently have 3-4 targets around them to take advantage of aoe, which darkness aoe isn't powerful enough to truly represent a threat w/o dps support.

 

Deception and darkness have different roles, play the one that appeals to you; like running in lighting blazing and slapping multiple fools across the face, then darkness if for you; like finding the enemy teams healer and killing them before they know what even happened, then deception is the trick.

 

Easy as that.

[snuff]

So it sounds like we all pretty much agree. The debate isn't darkness vs deception the issue was that everyone is QQing about deception sucking. I just don't see it, I down very well as deception. Sure darkness has more survivability and more utility because you live longer, can interrupt more etc however thats what a tank does. Assasins / stealth dps classes are generally 1 trick ponies. Get in blow them up and run away.

 

I find that decpetion does a very good job at that. And if deception needs a buff it is in line with higher damage on abilities more so then survivability. As deception I'm not looking to charge into a multi person fight, I'm looking to quickly take out one guy and run away.

[jkcheng]

So it sounds like we all pretty much agree. The debate isn't darkness vs deception the issue was that everyone is QQing about deception sucking. I just don't see it, I down very well as deception. Sure darkness has more survivability and more utility because you live longer, can interrupt more etc however thats what a tank does. Assasins / stealth dps classes are generally 1 trick ponies. Get in blow them up and run away.

 

I find that decpetion does a very good job at that. And if deception needs a buff it is in line with higher damage on abilities more so then survivability. As deception I'm not looking to charge into a multi person fight, I'm looking to quickly take out one guy and run away.

 

Would like to see Maul either gain a bit of crit rate increase through EW, or not require a proc to do its full potential not including the bonus the from Induction. Feel like something Deception relies on for burst should not be requiring a proc that has a 30% chance of occuring.

[snuff]

Would like to see Maul either gain a bit of crit rate increase through EW, or not require a proc to do its full potential not including the bonus the from Induction. Feel like something Deception relies on for burst should not be requiring a proc that has a 30% chance of occuring.

 

Yeah I could totally get behind this. Move the maul proc up further in the tree and make it do more damage with 100% chance with enough points. Or add more chance of it procing on another ability higher up in the tree.

 

It is kinda sad that besides assasinate, our hardest base damage ability is pretty much shelved while playing the highst dps spec. Just seems wrong in general.

[insendial]

Would like to see Maul either gain a bit of crit rate increase through EW, or not require a proc to do its full potential not including the bonus the from Induction. Feel like something Deception relies on for burst should not be requiring a proc that has a 30% chance of occuring.

 

A reduction in the ICD would be better. 30% chance once every 5 seconds is significantly better than 30% once every 10 seconds.

[Nwalmaer]

Lol, I have yet to be in a wz a see assasins hitting for more than 3.8k on a crit. The average i am seeing is 3.2k. After seeing all these post I started tracking player damage at the end of wz. With the new surge nerf I wonder how the burst is fairing now. I did see a scoundrel critting for 4.6k + in wz though. His name is Grape. I dont think the surge nerf has an effect on other classes the way it does ours.

[SWFTW]

to the OP;

 

 

You are not a Glass Cannon.........as deception you are a Glass .22 at best

 

Why role a glass 22 when you can run a Fortress armed with a Howitzer?

 

Thats whats wrong with Deception

 

 

Many classes have multiple specs that offer strong survivability AND heavy hitting damage.

 

 

Look at Smugglers, they can hit harder than you, heal themselves, and keep pwning face while you have to vanish and run in 90% of the situations that a stealth smuggler runs through like its nothing.

 

Pretty much this... I'm really enjoying Deception is PvE, but in PvP, it definitely needs a slight tweaking. I love playing glass cannons, but the key word is cannon.

 

I'll say it again:

 

The people saying Deception needs a buff because of low survivability aren't saying to make us tanks. We're saying to give us higher dps to put the cannon back in glass cannon.

[Acindo]

The crying is from people that just don't know how to play.

 

I love Deception.

 

I wouldn't mind a -slight- damage increase though.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Acindo

[Snaex]

Someone said deception can do 10k in 2 attacks. No you can do 10k in 4 attacks as deception. You need to build the 2 voltaix slash first, its called a rotation.

 

Deception players just dont get that they can get almost the same damage but waay more survivability as a darkness hybrid.

 

People defending it saying, everyone **** talking it don't know how to play a glass canon are off base. They just aren't smart enough to realize there is no reason to play sin like a glass cannon, because you gain a whole lot of survivability for giving up a smaller portion of damage.

[Cowflab]

Someone said deception can do 10k in 2 attacks. No you can do 10k in 4 attacks as deception. You need to build the 2 voltaix slash first, its called a rotation.

 

Deception players just dont get that they can get almost the same damage but waay more survivability as a darkness hybrid.

 

People defending it saying, everyone **** talking it don't know how to play a glass canon are off base. They just aren't smart enough to realize there is no reason to play sin like a glass cannon, because you gain a whole lot of survivability for giving up a smaller portion of damage.

 

A smaller portion? If you think any darkness sin can keep up with a deception sins dps champion gear level and above, then I have some ocean front property in Arizona that I can sell you. At champ gear level a standard VSx2>Discharge>Shock usually nets about 2k+2k+4k+4k(with a chance at and additional 2k). These numbers are quite a bit higher in BM gear and you can throw in relics and adrenals to pump out more. I suppose its just easier for you to underestimate the numbers to better suit your opinion though, right?

 

Splash damage in WZs totaled at the end is in no way, shape or form an indicator of how much damage either spec is in a skirmish scenario. I would love to meet any darkness specd sin that thinks they can keep up with me without using AoEs(read: slash damage, which are pretty negligible and easily mitigated through spot healing in organized PvP) on 4+ window lickers beating on a tank, so I can send them off with their tail between their legs.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Cowflab

[Cowflab]

It's actually a 60percent chance to proc off trash, since it hits twice. And thta means on average every 3 seconds I can shock again. Which will be an instant crit.

 

Where your wrong is that you think without recklesness a CD, you will crit 3 times out of 3. If you have 30epcent chance to crit, which I assume you don't because you seem like a bad player who probably is sitting in cent/champ still. That means less than 1/3 shocks of yours will crit. (you're starting to dig again chief)

 

Even if I were to assume you crit every time and you crit each time for 5k, thats 15k dmg in 18seconds. Which is 833 dps over that time frame. Where as in 10seconds on 10500 dmg is 1050 dps. (do a total 18 second rotation with all other abilities and you'll see the error of your ways)

 

Now you could argue you the add in of surging charge in that time frame, which will just cause me work I dont want to do, because my trashes will be hitting for way more than your voltaic strikes in the same time frame as well. (try again junior, and define way more)

 

But since we are doing this purley on shocks, this proves my point just the same. (that your shocks come more frequently for less damage all the while ignoring the other damage abilities that are outclassed by deception?)

And the arguement for chain shock is even dumber, both specs have it. It goes of normal damage not crit damage, so in reality on average the chain shock hits for more as it has a higher base in darkness spec. I don't need to get into that either. (I never said either spec was better with a chain shock or not, you're creating strawmen)

 

It's pretty obvious no matter how many times I prove otherwise to you, you will just bash your head that your spec is better. (in pure damage, it is)

 

Does it make sense that a darkness tank hybrid does more sustained damage than deception? No, but thats how it is and you are wrong if you are specced deception.

 

I just thought I'd point out all the glaring faults in your logic in case people that are reading need clarification.

[Cowflab]

Normal is based off your stats.

 

It's simple math really, I'm actually giving you the benfit of the doubt assuming you have 30percent chance to crit which more than likley you don't have.

 

 

You don't even get how energize with thrash and shock works, I guess its to much for you to understand that you have a critical hit chance, and that actually effects the chance of your shocks to be..you know a critical hit.

 

60% is still not 100%, which was my intial point. The fallacy you created in your own argument was that you have some magical spec that allows you to crit shocks 100% of the time and out dps a deception assassin.(which is completely untrue if you're ruling out negligible splash damage)