Marauders are the most powerful pvp class in the game

[jcyrus]

Can't say I agree with the OP. Marauders are more complex then the other classes but that complexity isn't offset by them having a higher damage output or more survivability. They have to press 15 or so buttons and use almost all their abilities to be comparable to other classes who only have to use a quater of their abilities and 8 or so buttons.

A few days ago I counted up the abilities I use in the average (PvP) fight and it was 21. This is all while being on the move, trying to stay within 4meters of your target.

 

Marauders aren't exactly difficult to play, but they do (as you said) require more involvement on the player's part. That's one of the reasons I enjoy mine so much after having played a Mercenary, Sniper, and Sorcerer.

[Metric_Tensor]

The object is to stack DoTs as you build up to Annihilate. Do Force Charge -> Deadly Saber (not Strike) -> Battering Assault -> Rupture -> Annihilate. After that use Force Choke or Ravage (if you aren't getting pounded by someone) or Assault to start building Rage back up. The reason you want to use Deadly Saber is it makes your next 3 hits apply a DoT Bleed effect. With points in Hungering you'll get 2% health back for every DoT tick, so with 4 DoTs in effect you are getting 8% back every second or so.

 

Also make sure you use Annihilate every time it's up, each use reduces the cool down of the next one by 1.5 seconds with 3 stacks that's a 7.5s cool down. Much faster than a 9 sec smash cool down. Another skill to always use is Berserk you get 100% Crit chance on Bleed effects while it's going, and lets you heal your entire party for 1% of their health per tick. Always, and I mean Always when using Annihilation use the Juyo form. You lose out on many of the benefits of the spec if you use Shii-Cho.

 

Rage and Annihilation are good Spec's if you are more comfortable with Rage, stick with it, or learn both, or all three. They all have their uses some are better in PvP others in PvE learning all the possible Spec's will just give you more utility.

 

According to your sequence:

Force Charge -> Deadly Saber (not Strike) -> Battering Assault -> Rupture -> Annihilate

 

This is my problem. Force Charge generates 3 rage. Deadly Saber costs 3 rage, meaning that before Battering Assault, you have 0 rage. And 80% of the time, i get pushed back or stunned between Deadly Saber and Battering Assault, and when that happens, i'm left with 0 rage and at a distance from my opponent.

 

Some people suggest that movement impairing skills like Cripple and Rupture should come early on to prevent them from running, but if I do that, i'll be out of rage for Deadly Saber, screwing up the whole advantage of Bleed.

 

Was I playing it wrong?

[Pullzar]

Marauders are the most powerful class in the game. Luckily they're incredibly difficult to play so most people suck at them.

 

Their damage is the highest by a lot when performed properly, and their survivability is also the highest.

 

They have a 20% dmg reduction for 30 seconds (unless they aren't hit making it a 6 second invincibility) a 4 second invincibility and a vanish, they do the most dmg when played properly and they have an excellent gap closer.

 

 

They're also ridiculously hard to play, and most players are terrible.

 

No I didn't get killed by one in pvp and am now QQing, I'm lvling one up and my brother plays one, they are insanely difficult and easily best dps class in the game.

 

i like how no one has noticed that, in order for the things you've mentioned above, ya kinda hafta be spec'd into multiple trees lol (and you cant get that high through trying a hybrid spec). And oh ya, that whole "4 seconds" your so concerned about..? seriously? it costs HALF our health to do that... and i dont even know what this option to make it 6 seconds of invincibility is. maybe ur thinkin juggernaut instead? ill hafta go look thru my trees thoroughly because id love that.

 

yes cloak of pain can be as long as 30 seconds, if ur getting attacked. but initially its only 6 seconds. if ya dont want it to last 30 seconds, stop hitting me lol.

 

vanish only gives invincibility if you go up the annihilation tree, and ya hafta go pretty high up.

 

and my "greatest gap closer"? Really? like youve never knocked back a marauder thats jumped at you. lol. we have no knock back, no pull to, nadda. Heck, even operatives get a grenade that has a 3m knockback on it. that alone id LOVE to use on the ledge sorcs in huttball.

 

i dont think its too wise to comment on a class one has never played but, it certainly appears as if thats what youve done. Try playing one. i love my marauder, no doubt, and when my abilities are up, ya, ill get ridda sumthin pretty quick. after that tho? yaaaaaa *squish*

Edited February 13, 2012 by Pullzar

[Daotenka]

^ what he said.

[Metric_Tensor]

^ what he said.

 

Right on man. I never mentioned this, but OP literally took all the best parts of a Marauder and assumed that one can be all of those at once. And he claims Cloak of Pain to be a 6 sec invincibility. Haha. Cloak of Pain has a 20% (That's TWENTY! NOT HUNDRED!) damage reduction, as is far from making you invincible. Heck, Saber Ward gives you 50% damage reduction, and even then, I still get beaten to a pulp sometimes. Undying Rage is the only thing which is close to an invincibility, but it costs 50% of your current health. Hence, nobody would use it unless their down to like 10% of their health. And you know what happens sometimes. Yeah, you die before that skill is activated.

[Badlander]

Only reason ppl are QQing about Marauder class is that 90% of the players do not have the skills to play them right and suck at them. So they feel that Marauders are op cuz they can't use them.

 

Seems so many players in this game want 1-3 button spam classes and can't deal with classes that use a ton of buttons. Marauders are easy to play (pve) but tough to master and play right (pvp).

[Metric_Tensor]

Only reason ppl are QQing about Marauder class is that 90% of the players do not have the skills to play them right and suck at them. So they feel that Marauders are op cuz they can't use them.

 

Seems so many players in this game want 1-3 button spam classes and can't deal with classes that use a ton of buttons. Marauders are easy to play (pve) but tough to master and play right (pvp).

 

Whatever the case it, having to 'press a ton of buttons' is the primary problem, because that translates to longer dps execution times. Time is always an issue in pvp. Nobody is gonna stand still and let you hit the gas. Every other class has some method to interrupt a Marauder's attack. And a Marauder's method of dps-ing is to get face to face, not only drawing a lot of attention, but makes him the victim of almost all CC skills, unlike a sorc or a gunner who is shooting from afar. You'd think that for a class which needs to be in the fray, the dps bursts would be high and fast. But no, it's low and slow. The class which is high and fast is the one standing afar, and not risking his neck.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Metric_Tensor

[Jabbb]

Right on man. I never mentioned this, but OP literally took all the best parts of a Marauder and assumed that one can be all of those at once. And he claims Cloak of Pain to be a 6 sec invincibility. Haha. Cloak of Pain has a 20% (That's TWENTY! NOT HUNDRED!) damage reduction, as is far from making you invincible. Heck, Saber Ward gives you 50% damage reduction, and even then, I still get beaten to a pulp sometimes. Undying Rage is the only thing which is close to an invincibility, but it costs 50% of your current health. Hence, nobody would use it unless their down to like 10% of their health. And you know what happens sometimes. Yeah, you die before that skill is activated.

 

its a 20% dmg reduction for 30 seconds unless the opponent chooses not to attack in which case its 6 seconds of not being attacked ie invincibility, thought that was pretty clear, and everything I mentioned is available in a single spec not sure why people are saying otherwise.

[EternalFinality]

Just root them. Marauders are obliterated by CC.

 

They have exactly 2 survival abilities - a 4 second vanish (just watch for when they reappear then continue killing them) and a 5 second 99% resist to damage (which costs HALF YOUR HEALTH to use. Pro-tip: That's when you stun)

 

Both are powerful abilities to be sure, but no where near the escapability of a Sorc or a vanish class. People think Marauders have so much survivability because of the 5 sec "invulernable" but smart people simply throw dots and move onto the next person, or wait the 5 seconds then finish them off. I typically burn the vanish right as Guarded by the Force ends, but at that point I have nothing if someone notices me before I can get healed or flee far enough away with no one noticing to get out of combat. Typically I'll go into last stand mode and try to pick someone off or delay a flag cap before dying.

 

It's the same thing as Sorc lightning - Guarded by the Force is a highly visible ability. You see 4 people pounding on a Sentinel and him taking 2 damage each hit and you think "That's gotta be imbalanced!" instead of being smart, CCing him until it ends, then picking up an easy kill.

 

Are Sentinels/Marauders weak? No, they do extremely good damage if allowed to deal it. Are they overpowered? No, they are extremely susceptible to CC (especially roots) and have problems in group play.

 

Are they "the hardest class in the game"? Probably but despite what all the "pros" would have you believe, this difficulty doesn't translate into a disproportional advantage. Marauders suck if played poorly, but are merely good if played well.

Edited February 13, 2012 by EternalFinality

[Badlander]

Whatever the case it, having to 'press a ton of buttons' is the primary problem, because that translates to longer dps execution times. Time is always an issue in pvp. Nobody is gonna stand still and let you hit the gas. Every other class has some method to interrupt a Marauder's attack. And a Marauder's method of dps-ing is to get face to face, not only drawing a lot of attention, but makes him the victim of almost all CC skills, unlike a sorc or a gunner who is shooting from afar. You'd think that for a class which needs to be in the fray, the dps bursts would be high and fast. But no, it's low and long. The class which is high and fast is the one standing afar, and not risking his neck.

 

I have no problems with playing my Marauder. My burst is fine. Killing a sorc is easy. Good Marauders are always in the top 5 of damage in WZ's. You just have to know how to play them and be good at it. Your post just goes to prove that many ppl just do not have the skill to play them.

 

I would be pissed if they dumbed down Marauder play style to the lvl of 1-3 button players.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Badlander

[IcyFisty]

Champion Marauder checking in....

 

Since I can't make any points that haven't already been said, all i'll say is that I've had plenty of success as a marauder, but I can't hold a candle to a well-played sorcerer.

[BobaFurz]

I have no problems with playing my Marauder. My burst is fine. Killing a sorc is easy. Good Marauders are always in the top 5 of damage in WZ's. You just have to know how to play them and be good at it. Your post just goes to prove that many ppl just do not have the skill to play them.

 

I would be pissed if they dumbed down Marauder play style to the lvl of 1-3 button players.

 

Maurader is the one of the least classes in swtor who actually offers some demand, most classes in swtor are way too easy played. In most mmorpgs I played before a lot more effort was needed to play a class..

 

Swtor is easy going pvp...and a lot of classes are only powerfull due to their powerfull abilities and gear but not always with much effort and big skill. There are always better players out there than yourself but honestly, some classes are way too easy played.

 

Just look at the talentrees most classes play that similar, the variations of the talent trees are not that great either.

Edited February 13, 2012 by BobaFurz

[Rheeling]

There's no mythical limitless potential of marauders and sentinels. Good marauders are only as good as you let them play. Don't try to engage them 1v1, it's a waste of time and you'll probably die. The best thing you can do 1v1 is CC and run away to your group. In group PVP CC and burn them down, make them waste their defensive CDs.

ez

 

This. I've only gotten my Marauder up to level 24 and I can already tell this is 150% true. I still haven't lost a 1v1 which started with me within 30% health of the other person. If the other person has no idea how to react to a Marauder, then I don't even need to use Saber Ward.

 

Unfortunately for me, I've already got a reputation in the sub-50 bracket and I'm one of the first targets focused. Yay server rep.

[Selixx]

Kinetic shadow counter marauders pretty well.

 

Assassin/Shadow does not counter Marauder/Sentinel. I consider them one of my easier fights honestly. Once you know the burst pattern for the dps tree, it's easy to mitigate their damage, and if you rotate cd's against a tank spec, instead of mashing them all, you can use berserk to keep your health fairly static against them. Obviously they are going to try to mitigate your first set of bleeds, so you want to save your relics for the second set of bleeds, pop berserk every 5 GCD's, and save frenzy for an emergency berserk if needed.

 

Unless they pull some cheese like using Frozen Water from vanish, then it's a fairly simple fight if you keep your cool and watch their cd's.

[Metric_Tensor]

I have no problems with playing my Marauder. My burst is fine. Killing a sorc is easy. Good Marauders are always in the top 5 of damage in WZ's. You just have to know how to play them and be good at it. Your post just goes to prove that many ppl just do not have the skill to play them.

 

I would be pissed if they dumbed down Marauder play style to the lvl of 1-3 button players.

 

Of course you can go with the good ol' "I have no problems" justification. That's about as good as saying "My PC has no problems" to someone who's asking for a solution to a technical troubleshooting problem. Like any competitive oriented game, be it pvps in MMOs, or fighting games like Tekken or Street Fighter, in which play styles are character specific, there will always be 'easy to use' and 'difficult to use' characters, hence the existence of Tiers.

 

But what really is important here, is that if you have to put in 100 hours of training to be on par with someone else who only needed to put it 20 hours of training, it's basically a sign that the character needs some buffing. Because technically, you'd only be equal if you assume the other guy stops training. But if he did put in as much time as you, mathematically, you'd be lagging behind in mastery. And that is not to be confused as having a lousy character in general. It's not the same thing.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Metric_Tensor

[Rheeling]

According to your sequence:

Force Charge -> Deadly Saber (not Strike) -> Battering Assault -> Rupture -> Annihilate

 

This is my problem. Force Charge generates 3 rage. Deadly Saber costs 3 rage, meaning that before Battering Assault, you have 0 rage. And 80% of the time, i get pushed back or stunned between Deadly Saber and Battering Assault, and when that happens, i'm left with 0 rage and at a distance from my opponent.

 

Some people suggest that movement impairing skills like Cripple and Rupture should come early on to prevent them from running, but if I do that, i'll be out of rage for Deadly Saber, screwing up the whole advantage of Bleed.

 

Was I playing it wrong?

 

So far for me, it has depended on the class I'm attacking. If I'm attacking Troopers or BH's, I don't even bother using Cripple. They're rooted for the hefty majority of their attacks anyway. If they try to run, then sure I'll use it then, but no reason to waste Rage before my setup on them.

 

Now, every single time I attack a Sage I'll use cripple very early on. Also applies for the dot-specced Smugglers. Usually just learning what each opponent will do when you attack them makes those decisions for you. If they don't run at all, then hey, you have more Rage to play with next time.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Rheeling

[_Scattered_]

Assassin/Shadow does not counter Marauder/Sentinel. I consider them one of my easier fights honestly. Once you know the burst pattern for the dps tree, it's easy to mitigate their damage, and if you rotate cd's against a tank spec, instead of mashing them all, you can use berserk to keep your health fairly static against them. Obviously they are going to try to mitigate your first set of bleeds, so you want to save your relics for the second set of bleeds, pop berserk every 5 GCD's, and save frenzy for an emergency berserk if needed.

 

Unless they pull some cheese like using Frozen Water from vanish, then it's a fairly simple fight if you keep your cool and watch their cd's.

 

You underestimate the kind of damage a kinetic shadow can dish out with appropriate gear.

[BobaFurz]

This. I've only gotten my Marauder up to level 24 and I can already tell this is 150% true. I still haven't lost a 1v1 which started with me within 30% health of the other person. If the other person has no idea how to react to a Marauder, then I don't even need to use Saber Ward.

 

Unfortunately for me, I've already got a reputation in the sub-50 bracket and I'm one of the first targets focused. Yay server rep.

 

Common what opponents do you have, other classes have a chance to kill the maurader aswell. Especially at lvl 24.

 

I like the thread, but not because someone claims it is the most powerfull class. I like it because warriors are underplayed and I hope more people will start playing them, we have too many ranged classes ingame.

Edited February 13, 2012 by BobaFurz

[Raice]

Their damage is great but their lack of utility is going to make them worthless in Rated WZs I fear. I do stomp most WZs on mine though. Good Marauders that are up against bad players are fairly effective.

 

I would think, given the nature of the fact that the OP asserts they are the most powerful, that a good Marauder is effective against anyone, regardless of whether or not that person is a good or bad player.

 

I really get tired of this "Learn to Play" mentality that is so often thrown around on these forums. Between the Gear, the exploits, the obvious OP abilities that are obvious, the lag, the gank squads, Biochem, and a whole slew of other factors... player Skill plays a very minor role in whether or not you are winning. It's not like people are purposely not using the confirmed effective builds and rotations of their class.

[Rheeling]

Common what opponents do you have, other classes have a chance to kill the maurader aswell. Especially at lvl 24.

 

I like the thread, but not because someone claims it is the most powerfull class. I like it because warriors are underplayed and I hope more people will start playing them, we have too many ranged classes ingame.

 

Yeah I do enjoy seeing people get together and discuss how the Marauder is a great class once it's played correctly. Warrior classes have always been my style so that's why I'm having more fun on this character than any other I've made.

 

But, so far I've tried tackling everything I get an opportunity to go 1v1 with. The closest and most hard-fought battle I've had so far was against a level 48 operative. Wasn't exactly sure what spec, but I died when he had 1% health left. We both used every cool down we had from what I could tell.

 

Sub-50 Sages haven't given me any problems. The only "problem" I run into with them, is they pull me into their team mates and then I'm focused.

 

Other Marauders/Sentinels have been really easy, seeing as how almost every one I've been up against has been Focus specced (I play Annihilation).

 

I haven't had a chance to get a 1v1 against a Jugg or Guardian yet really. But given the mechanics, I think I'd have the edge so long as they don't have their execute yet.

 

Snipers haven't been too rough to deal with either. They melt pretty quickly with my dots, and they just have to eat my Ravage.

 

Haven't had to deal with many Assassins yet though. At least not on my own. So I really don't have a comparison for that.

 

I'll get plenty of opportunities at some point though to go against all the classes and specs with how much I pvp. Plus, I like testing my personal and class limits.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Rheeling

[Skrewloose]

On my Sage, I would say that Merc's and Marauders are about equal. As far as how fast they kill me. I think I actually prefer fighting Marauders because at least then I can lead them out of the mass combat area. Where the Merc's just yank me back into the crowd. Then it's always like a chummed water full of sharks.

 

Snipers probably do a lot more dps. But they are easier to LOS. So not as big of a problem to deal with most times.

[Tumri]

I would think, given the nature of the fact that the OP asserts they are the most powerful, that a good Marauder is effective against anyone, regardless of whether or not that person is a good or bad player.

 

I really get tired of this "Learn to Play" mentality that is so often thrown around on these forums. Between the Gear, the exploits, the obvious OP abilities that are obvious, the lag, the gank squads, Biochem, and a whole slew of other factors... player Skill plays a very minor role in whether or not you are winning. It's not like people are purposely not using the confirmed effective builds and rotations of their class.

 

You'd be surprised. There was a Sorcerer yesterday that didn't know he had an ability called "Force Slow". I lol'd.

 

A week ago there was an Operative that didn't know that stealth can't be detected if you're behind someone.

 

In WZs I see people panic and use their knockbacks and CCs is the most stupid ways imaginable.

 

At this point in game's timeline there are enormous difference between players.

 

When I see a bad marauder it shows. In game I've seen two full BM marauders do 200-300k damage in voidstar when I was able to do 530k in PvE half columi/rakata and another marauder was able to do 440k. There are still QQ threads about Marauders/Sentinels finding it hard to break 200k damage in WZs. There are classes with very unforgiving "skill floors".

[BobaFurz]

Try playing versus a Vangaurd/powertech and see how are you doing with their kiting at your lvl using the deadzone. The maurader is a very good class in pvp but its not god mode, there are always better players out there than yourself you just have to find them. I enjoy my maurader and killed loads of players but I killed also dozens of them with my powertech just with kiting. You have not met a good sorc/sage player, most dont use force speed, slow or whirlwind and yeah those who dont use their full potential are dead if you have the time for a 1v1. Anhi spec is the way to go. Edited February 13, 2012 by BobaFurz

[Rheeling]

Try playing versus a Vangaurd/powertech and see how are you doing with their kiting at your lvl using the deadzone. The maurader is a very good class in pvp but its not god mode, there are always better players out there than yourself you just have to find them. I enjoy my maurader and killed loads of players but I killed also dozens of them with my powertech just with kiting. You have not met a good sorc/sage player, most dont use force speed, slow or whirlwind and yeah those who dont use their full potential are dead if you have the time for a 1v1. Anhi spec is the way to go.

 

The first character I rolled was a Vanguard actually, so I'm pretty comfortable against them The dead zone is pretty intimidating if you're not prepared, but I just use "mind tricks" to get back into range. Start strafe kiting away to make them think you're going for a leap or something, they run toward you to stay within 10 meters. As soon as you see them move, run toward them and hit them with Cripple. That's seemed to work for me so far.

 

Plus, if they're spamming Ion Pulse in the dead zone they'll be low on ammo pretty quickly. But yes, I don't by any means think I'm the greatest anything out there on the server lol. I do think I'm very good though because I learn other classes so that I know what they're trying to do, on top of going through my own motions.

 

And I'm with you on the Sage thing. I get slowed, but they do it when I'm already in their face and have Cripple applied. Not very smart. Most just try to bubble spam and run. Once they're out of range they try to heal, but then I can leap again. A good Madness/Balance player would probably wreck me, but I haven't really seen too many of those.

[BobaFurz]

if they're spamming Ion Pulse in the dead zone they'll be low on ammo pretty quickly.

 

For kiting i use my gun and throw only occasionally one of the skills which use energy..energy management is a must, of course you run out of ammo/energy if you use only them. The cylinder + your gun alone is already powerfull to keep them at distance. It is of course a different story if they are unprepared and you jump one. Mauraders start to make trouble when they get their shield, loosing 50% hp but you are a hitting for 5 dmg.

Edited February 13, 2012 by BobaFurz