Wolfshead.com's SWTOR Review: MMORPG Design & Commentary

[sanctimonia]

What SWTOR doesn't have:

No rep grinds, no meaningful crafting, no mini-maxing, no combat logs, no addons, no arenas, no rated BGs, not even a 1/4 of WoWs raids strictly speaking of Cataclysm only, no reforging, no guild benefits, no achievements, no tournaments, no dps meters, no LFR, no dynamic loot table, no enchanting, no dual spec, no LFG, no story past 50.

 

 

What SWTOR does have:

Ability delay, bugs, a lack of day/night, lifeless small linear planets, Ilum, garbage performance, stale talent trees, single threaded engine, spacebar, load times, 20 fps on fleet, client freeze if you open and close your character pane too many times, terrible graphics for high res (looks like my armor was drawn in crayon), memory leaks, pvp imbalances, plenty of RNG for your bags, awful GCD indicator, same old raid/heroics

 

 

Why would I or anyone else who don't much care for the Star Wars IP want to spend our 15 dollars a month for this game when other games just do things so much better? I tend to cringe when SWTOR is compared to WoW. Really SWTOR isn't even in the same league as RIFT let alone WoW.

 

 

Rep grinds....you liked doing the same 10 quests over and over just so an NPC faction would be cool with you? You do know SWTOR has token vendors for each planet right?

 

No min-maxing? Thank god tbh...even though I still dont get at what you are saying here. If there is an optimal way to DPS there will be min maxing

 

No reforging? MOD ITEMS are reforging....

 

WoW did not have guild benifits till recently....and SWTOR is coming out with the legacy system as well...

 

No LFR...again WoW literally JUST came out with that...

 

No LFG? Coming in 1.2 (How long did it take wow?)

 

No achives? Ok...so what they were pointless.

 

No Dual Spec? Coming out likely in 1.3 but certainly before 1.5 (again how long did it take wow?)

 

No arena? Again..thank god. BLizzard even said that they would take back arenas if they could.

 

No story past 50? WOW doesnt even have a story in the SWTOR sense? Honestly the quests you do have no real impact on your char in WoW at all...

 

So please try again....even when compared to a game that has been worked on for 7+ years SWTOR still comes out pretty good.

[sanctimonia]

Community. Yeah they're mean and cranky and outright hostile but there is a community to talk to in endgame WoW.

TOR has no community. Players don't talk to each other, very rarely group up and that's on a good day. Most days you wouldn't have a clue you weren't playing a single player game.

 

Interaction is another big thing that keeps people playing MMOs at endgame and another big thing TOR doesn't have.

 

When do you group up in wow?

 

Do you honestly pick up a random stranger and quest in WoW?

 

No. 99% of the quests you do in WoW are soloed

 

The only time you group up in WoW is for Instances and PvP....same as in SWTOR.

[sanctimonia]

People as in "players and/or NPCs."

 

Example: In UO you could be a "Murderer." This made it so you could no longer go into any of the normal towns and access the vendors/banks there. Instead, you had to go to the rogue city of Buccaneer's Den to use your bank. The only way you could acquire goods from then on was from monsters, other players, or player-vendors.

 

In order to become a "murderer", you could kill town NPCs (5 kills would make you a "criminal" 5 more would make you a "murder" IIRC) or other players.

 

It had a Karma system that gave you +/- Karma based on your deeds (kill evil player/mob and you get +Karma; kill good mob/player get -karma). You basically played the game how you wanted, everything happened within the game world, not in some secluded story-instances. That's the difference.

 

Uhh...ok thats cool....I guess.

 

I mean I dont know why you would intentionally gimp yourself but hey w/e.

[sanctimonia]

Rep grinds....you liked doing the same 10 quests over and over just so an NPC faction would be cool with you? You do know SWTOR has token vendors for each planet right?

 

No min-maxing? Thank god tbh...even though I still dont get at what you are saying here. If there is an optimal way to DPS there will be min maxing

 

No reforging? MOD ITEMS are reforging....

 

WoW did not have guild benifits till recently....and SWTOR is coming out with the legacy system as well...

 

No LFR...again WoW literally JUST came out with that...

 

No LFG? Coming in 1.2 (How long did it take wow?)

 

No achives? Ok...so what they were pointless.

 

No Dual Spec? Coming out likely in 1.3 but certainly before 1.5 (again how long did it take wow?)

 

No arena? Again..thank god. BLizzard even said that they would take back arenas if they could.

 

No story past 50? WOW doesnt even have a story in the SWTOR sense? Honestly the quests you do have no real impact on your char in WoW at all...

 

So please try again....even when compared to a game that has been worked on for 7+ years SWTOR still comes out pretty good.

 

Also to add...not even 1/2 the stuff you said was endgame.

 

Reforging is just another staic min-max stat.

 

If you are a rogue you reforge X -> Y Z -> W etc. etc......its no different than just slapping on another stat.

 

 

No DPS meters? Again so what? I never really got the concept of trying to top the meters...as long as the boss when down it was ok.

 

In fact WoW does not even have DPS meters....its an addon

 

No tournaments...what? what tournaments are you talking about?

[Kryptorchid]

Uhh...ok thats cool....I guess.

 

I mean I dont know why you would intentionally gimp yourself but hey w/e.

 

In the context of UO, you weren't gimping yourself. You just made a gameplay choice to be viewed as a vile murderer (most of these people were PKs). You could still be "evil" through the Karma system and still not be considered a "criminal" so you had full access to the towns. The game gave you options to play how you wanted to, not just the option to say a line that has no effect outside the conversation.

[DTuloJr]

Coming in 1.2 (How long did it take wow?)

...

Coming out likely in 1.3 but certainly before 1.5 (again how long did it take wow?)

...

No story past 50? WOW doesnt even have a story in the SWTOR sense? Honestly the quests you do have no real impact on your char in WoW at all...

 

So please try again....even when compared to a game that has been worked on for 7+ years SWTOR still comes out pretty good.

 

1. Six years in development, and they don't release with a feature set of other games that they're directly competing against. The BEST they have, are individuals defending the game who constantly shout "but, the features are being put in faster than their competitors developed those features." That's a strawman arguement tactic. The issue is the fact that someone at BWA arrogantly thought that they did not need certain features, when the reality has hit them that yes, they DO need those features, and it was a major mistake for them to not listen to their testers and put those features in before launch.

 

2. World of Warcraft has a story and lore as rich and detailed as that of the STAR WARS properties. The difference is that with the voice and animation work, SWTOR delivers a portion of its the story in a more accessible manner than was accomplished with WoW. Claiming it doesn't exist, however, is highly disengenuous.

 

3. The quests in WoW impact your character just as much as those in SWTOR. What people were expecting, was the ability to be your own character, and determine your own story. Yet once again, that is not the case; no actions taken in SWTOR allow a true alternate path to be taken.

 

4. When compared to a game that came out 7+ years ago, has survived, and has evolved, SWTOR launched and looked mediocre. Yes, it will get better. It should have been better at launch, and someone pushed it out the door a minimum of 3 months too early (EA, I'm looking at YOU).

[sanctimonia]

In the context of UO, you weren't gimping yourself. You just made a gameplay choice to be viewed as a vile murderer (most of these people were PKs). You could still be "evil" through the Karma system and still not be considered a "criminal" so you had full access to the towns. The game gave you options to play how you wanted to, not just the option to say a line that has no effect outside the conversation.

 

Viewed by....NPCs as a vile murderer...which is what decisions in SWTOR do.....

[Kryptorchid]

Viewed by....NPCs as a vile murderer...which is what decisions in SWTOR do.....

Viewed by NPCs... and the players!

 

Please don't kid yourself. Your quest/story actions have 100% no bearing on what goes on outside of those activities. They may mean something within the story, but once you leave that green door, you are back to being a bland character. Saying otherwise is just admitting that you have no objectivity and have your view obscured from suckling BioWare's teet too long.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Kryptorchid

[sanctimonia]

1. Six years in development, and they don't release with a feature set of other games that they're directly competing against. The BEST they have, are individuals defending the game who constantly shout "but, the features are being put in faster than their competitors developed those features." That's a strawman arguement tactic. The issue is the fact that someone at BWA arrogantly thought that they did not need certain features, when the reality has hit them that yes, they DO need those features, and it was a major mistake for them to not listen to their testers and put those features in before launch.

 

2. World of Warcraft has a story and lore as rich and detailed as that of the STAR WARS properties. The difference is that with the voice and animation work, SWTOR delivers a portion of its the story in a more accessible manner than was accomplished with WoW. Claiming it doesn't exist, however, is highly disengenuous.

 

3. The quests in WoW impact your character just as much as those in SWTOR. What people were expecting, was the ability to be your own character, and determine your own story. Yet once again, that is not the case; no actions taken in SWTOR allow a true alternate path to be taken.

 

4. When compared to a game that came out 7+ years ago, has survived, and has evolved, SWTOR launched and looked mediocre. Yes, it will get better. It should have been better at launch, and someone pushed it out the door a minimum of 3 months too early (EA, I'm looking at YOU).

 

 

1. Again you think it is just a simple port job...its not. They have to create and implement the system they cant just download it from wow and slap it into the game. for example how would "enchanting" be ported into SWTOR when a lot of times are customizable with mods? These things take time to optimize

 

 

2. I agree WoW has a rich story...but as a char you never feel a part of it really. Its most just the NPCs doing their thing...in SWTOR it actually feels as though you are progressing through the story...no just along for the ride.

 

3. Umm....what? In wow I have a quest objective that I HAVE to do no matter what. In SWTOR that are many times where I could chose to kill X amount of Cathar or simply dismantle their weps. In addition there are bonus quests that are sometimes only activated after you kill or interact with a certain mob or object. So no...this is just wrong.

 

4. SWTOR had a REALLY good launch compared to the launches of other games.....the rising subs is proof.

[sanctimonia]

Viewed by NPCs... and the players!

 

Please don't kid yourself. Your quest/story actions have 100% no bearing on what goes on outside of those activities. They may mean something within the story, but once you leave that green door, you are back to being a bland character. Saying otherwise is just admitting that you have no objectivity and have your view obscured from suckling BioWare's teet too long.

 

And players....how?

 

You mean like sith corruption? I dont get what you are getting at.

 

You kill X number of NPCs and you are banned from town....ok big deal?

 

NPCs hate you players could....careless right?

[DigitalDreamz]

Rep grinds....you liked doing the same 10 quests over and over just so an NPC faction would be cool with you? You do know SWTOR has token vendors for each planet right?

 

No min-maxing? Thank god tbh...even though I still dont get at what you are saying here. If there is an optimal way to DPS there will be min maxing

 

No reforging? MOD ITEMS are reforging....

 

WoW did not have guild benifits till recently....and SWTOR is coming out with the legacy system as well...

 

No LFR...again WoW literally JUST came out with that...

 

No LFG? Coming in 1.2 (How long did it take wow?)

 

No achives? Ok...so what they were pointless.

 

No Dual Spec? Coming out likely in 1.3 but certainly before 1.5 (again how long did it take wow?)

 

No arena? Again..thank god. BLizzard even said that they would take back arenas if they could.

 

No story past 50? WOW doesnt even have a story in the SWTOR sense? Honestly the quests you do have no real impact on your char in WoW at all...

 

So please try again....even when compared to a game that has been worked on for 7+ years SWTOR still comes out pretty good.

 

I see another apologist. You asked and you received. I'm not going to try again because I just showed you how this game can't even do a simple copy/paste right. Judging by your posts on here (all thousand of them) you took things personal and are upset that your precious SWTOR is being exposed for what it is. An average C rated game which isn't worth a monthly sub fee. Then you try the "WoW has been out for 7 years!" garbage. To release a title that needs to be compared to titles 7 years back is absolutely ridiculous. ESPECIALLY one that spent 300+ million dollars and four years in the making.

 

You got your proof but all you want is to play forum tag. Sorry not going to play forum seesaw with you. My original post stands, WoW and RIFT are both lightyears beyond this game. Endgame is horrendous here and not even a fraction of what WoW has to offer and lastly that blog is pretty spot on.

[Kryptorchid]

And players....how?

 

You mean like sith corruption? I dont get what you are getting at.

 

You kill X number of NPCs and you are banned from town....ok big deal?

 

NPCs hate you players could....careless right?

 

No, players can kill you with no criminal repercussion and collect money for any bounties that were on your head. Also, the death penalty for a "Murderer" was more of time sink, because you could only be resurrected by another player (which made you a criminal too) or at specific shrines throughout the world (which were usually very scattered and far away).

 

People in towns would say "Help! Monty Burns just killed me and looted everything off my body!" And you would get people coming together to help kill Monty Burns, cut off his head, and turn it in for the reward. That is the sort of thing that makes your actions have meaning to other players and creates a great in-game community.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Kryptorchid

[sanctimonia]

I see another apologist. You asked and you received. I'm not going to try again because I just showed you how this game can't even do a simple copy/paste right. Judging by your posts on here (all thousand of them) you took things personal and are upset that your precious SWTOR is being exposed for what it is. An average C rated game which isn't worth a monthly sub fee. Then you try the "WoW has been out for 7 years!" garbage. To release a title that needs to be compared to titles 7 years back is absolutely ridiculous. ESPECIALLY one that spent 300+ million dollars and four years in the making.

 

You got your proof but all you want is to play forum tag. Sorry not going to play forum seesaw with you. My original post stands, WoW and RIFT are both lightyears beyond this game. Endgame is horrendous here and not even a fraction of what WoW has to offer and lastly that blog is pretty spot on.

 

So basically you ran out of ideas and cant come up with anything else? You could have just said so its ok.

 

BTW I dont know how I could be an apologist...when I have an 85 of every class on WoW and still have an active WoW account along with SWTOR...since you know I can play both w/o blowing up the world.

 

BTW I dont know why you brought rift into this....lol rift.

 

I played the trial for quite a few different chars...never interested me enough to buy it. Another game hyped as a WoW killer and didnt even come close. I think SWTOR outshined it by quite a bit.

[sanctimonia]

No, players can kill you with no criminal repercussion and collect money for any bounties that were on your head. Also, the death penalty for a "Murderer" was more of time sink, because you could only be resurrected by another player (which made you a criminal too) or at specific shrines throughout the world (which were usually very scattered and far away).

 

People in towns would say "Help! Monty Burns just killed me and looted everything off my body!" And you would get people coming together to help kill Monty Burns, cut off his head, and turn it in for the reward. That is the sort of thing that makes your actions have meaning to other players and creates a great in-game community.

 

Well the "looting everything off my body" sound kinda like what I was getting at....great for the ganker no so much for the new comers.

 

I think there is a reason online play like that died out.

[Kryptorchid]

Well the "looting everything off my body" sound kinda like what I was getting at....great for the ganker no so much for the new comers.

 

I think there is a reason online play like that died out.

 

You are ignoring the point that your actions had meaning and consequences within the world, looting or not.

[SamuraBob_Fl]

I see another apologist. You asked and you received. I'm not going to try again because I just showed you how this game can't even do a simple copy/paste right. Judging by your posts on here (all thousand of them) you took things personal and are upset that your precious SWTOR is being exposed for what it is. An average C rated game which isn't worth a monthly sub fee. Then you try the "WoW has been out for 7 years!" garbage. To release a title that needs to be compared to titles 7 years back is absolutely ridiculous. ESPECIALLY one that spent 300+ million dollars and four years in the making.

 

You got your proof but all you want is to play forum tag. Sorry not going to play forum seesaw with you. My original post stands, WoW and RIFT are both lightyears beyond this game. Endgame is horrendous here and not even a fraction of what WoW has to offer and lastly that blog is pretty spot on.

 

I agree that we shouldn't compare TOR to WoW seven years ago.

 

The truth is that WoW continued to be buggy and broken from release onwards, and TOR is still superior to WoW.

 

I mean, TOR is still going to have talent trees, talk about customization features...

[sanctimonia]

You are ignoring the point that your actions had meaning and consequences within the world, looting or not.

 

Sure if your actions of killing a player means them losing all the gear they had did affect the consequences withing he world then sure it did have a meaning.

 

Doesnt change the fact that it severly gimps and breeds furstration from players coming in that are new to the game.

 

Again history shows that there is a reason that model died off...it just was not fun evidently for most of the people.

 

And again...that doesnt seem to have any affect on the world..just your own personal...well basically it was just a factions rating from the sound of it....only that it applied to PCs as well.

[Sizzurps]

The fact that Sony spent less cash on a proven engine and it runs smoother than a game that spent 300 mil and uses a crap engine... sigh.

 

 

Unreal Engine 3

 

Directional Light Shafts

Color Grading

Point Light Shafts

 

Plus much much more...

 

http://www.unrealengine.com/awards_accolades/

 

DCUO

 

Tera

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-1gDZBcsWY

 

Unreal Engine 3 Mass PvP:

 

______

 

Proprietary Engine (v4.0)

 

Directional Light Shafts

Color Grading

Point Light Shafts

 

Plus much much more...

 

 

Proprietary Mass PvP:

 

________

 

 

 

 

HEROengine (/facepalm)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEuFZbdJsKk

 

Mass PvP:

Edited February 13, 2012 by Sizzurps

[Kryptorchid]

Sure if your actions of killing a player means them losing all the gear they had did affect the consequences withing he world then sure it did have a meaning.

 

Doesnt change the fact that it severly gimps and breeds furstration from players coming in that are new to the game.

 

Again history shows that there is a reason that model died off...it just was not fun evidently for most of the people.

 

And again...that doesnt seem to have any affect on the world..just your own personal...well basically it was just a factions rating from the sound of it....only that it applied to PCs as well.

 

*Sigh* I guess I was stupid for trying to have a conversation, but you are just trying to argue with anyone and everything in this thread. Please re-read what I wrote and don't get hung-up on player-looting.

[krameriffic]

I gave up reading after the first 5 WoW references. I have NEVER played WoW, never will. I don't get why every single MMORPG to be released HAS to be compared to WoW. Tbph, I think there are a lot of free-to-play MMOs that are better than WoW, in terms of gameplay, graphics and aesthetics.

 

Basically, I thought he was meant to be reviewing SWTOR, not WoW...

 

How can you possibly speak to WoW's quality or design on any level if you've never played it? You don't understand why people compare SWTOR to it because you don't realize just how similar they are in terms of fundamental gameplay design. Instead you'd rather make stupid, ignorant posts like this one.

[sanctimonia]

*Sigh* I guess I was stupid for trying to have a conversation, but you are just trying to argue with anyone and everything in this thread. Please re-read what I wrote and don't get hung-up on player-looting.

 

Hey I am just telling you what it sounds like to me...

 

You kill X NPCs you are hated (Just like in WoW if you are hated by a faction they attack on sight)

 

If you kill another player then they may try and kill you back or get a group to kill you....again I dont see why you cant do this is modern MMOs?

 

I dont see what is so special.

[Cancrizans]

Sure, I can write a lot of opinion pieces...the only thing that separates me from them is er ya...I never made a game...

[sanctimonia]

How can you possibly speak to WoW's quality or design on any level if you've never played it? You don't understand why people compare SWTOR to it because you don't realize just how similar they are in terms of fundamental gameplay design. Instead you'd rather make stupid, ignorant posts like this one.

 

All mmos that came/come after WoW are based on that fundamental gameplay design.

 

It is not a fault or a plus...just a fact. That gameplay design is what sells right now.

 

It may change later but for now it is what it is.

[Sizzurps]

How can you possibly speak to WoW's quality or design on any level if you've never played it? You don't understand why people compare SWTOR to it because you don't realize just how similar they are in terms of fundamental gameplay design. Instead you'd rather make stupid, ignorant posts like this one.

 

Yuuuupp.

 

I believe these two videos pretty much sum SWTOR up.

 

 

[DTuloJr]

1. Again you think it is just a simple port job...its not. They have to create and implement the system they cant just download it from wow and slap it into the game. for example how would "enchanting" be ported into SWTOR when a lot of times are customizable with mods? These things take time to optimize

 

I know full well that it's not a simple "port" job (assuming they had access to something to port...). They've had years to learn and implement features from other MMO's, though. They had well over a full year of their testers screaming at them to add or change things. And they spent well over a year ignoring them, kind of like a lot of fanboys do to criticism of the game, no matter the short and long term consequences.

 

2. I agree WoW has a rich story...but as a char you never feel a part of it really. Its most just the NPCs doing their thing...in SWTOR it actually feels as though you are progressing through the story...no just along for the ride.

 

Through *the* story, not through *your individual* story. We can go on and on about design philosophy with this topic. I do agree, SWTOR does *story telling* better, though that benefit is minimal and gets old very quickly (space bar...).

 

3. Umm....what? In wow I have a quest objective that I HAVE to do no matter what. In SWTOR that are many times where I could chose to kill X amount of Cathar or simply dismantle their weps. In addition there are bonus quests that are sometimes only activated after you kill or interact with a certain mob or object. So no...this is just wrong.

 

Yes, suddenly, I miraculously just know to kill 15 swoop gang members and that someone back at a base will pay me money for that...

 

SWTOR isn't new or innovative. Not by any measure of the words, no matter how many times people lie about it and shout that it is, to others.

 

4. SWTOR had a REALLY good launch compared to the launches of other games.....the rising subs is proof.

 

Good is a relative term. If by good you mean where people couldn't get in to play their characters for upwards of 2 hours... due to alleged aribtrary software configurations that were in place to prevent servers from being overloaded... oh wait, the sudden doubling of capacity in less than two weeks due to some major technical achievement... the major bugs that prevented players from progressing forward... the exploits that we're... er... no, weren't caught by QA because it was rushed out the door against the wishes of the testers... then no, it did not have a good launch. It's still NOT having a good launch. It is, however, having a relatively *stable* launch, more so than many others. Then again, it never actually had that many true crash bugs, save for the server chat system.