Wolfshead.com's SWTOR Review: MMORPG Design & Commentary

[sanctimonia]

You're missing many many things.

I'm not going to convince you of anything so I'm not going to try.

Just trust me on this. TOR is going to collapse like a supernova and all the forgivers and excusers in the world aren't going to keep it alive.

The flaw is of their own design.

 

I am not going to convince you of anything.....just trust me on this....

 

Yea...how about no?

 

If you cant come up with these many many things....that is because there isnt any.

 

Heroics, Raids/Ops, and PvP are what comprise the endgame of most if not all MMOs.

 

WoW and SWTOR are no different.

[Thumpor]

I agree with the guy on a lot of his points, unfortunately. It's nothing that's not been said a thousand times before.

 

But on the plus side, I think Bioware will seriously consider the negative, yet constructive, feedback and get this product closer to its potential. I'll definitely keep tabs on TOR's progression because I love Bioware and appreciate what their intentions have been with this game.

[krinaman]

The other MMOs had a little thing called gameplay and endgame content.Some even had a ton of fluff to occupy people after they burned through the main content. Story was just a added bonus not the entire premise of the game.

Sure they can add more story but they'll never be able to add it quick enough to keep people playing and paying.

 

If you take this game at face value we all should have just waited for the book.

 

Well, I happen to be enjoying the gameplay and endgame content. Although some more solo options would be cool.

 

That you apparently don't like the gameplay or endgame content doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[Saitada]

At 20?

 

Not really....most classes dont get their main skills till level 25/30.

 

In addition I dont understand the hype you are talking about...seems to me that since subs are on the rise people are quite pleased with the game.

 

I've been playing MMO's for a very long time. The Hype I am talking about is BW/EA shouting from the rooftops that SWTOR is the greatest MMO to hit the market recently... and in some ways, yes it is, but in many ways as well.. it falls flat. It screams out... we're the best.. but when you get into the meat of the game, it's mediocrity at it's best and bland pablum at it's worst.

 

Don't get me wrong. I AM enjoying the game. But my expectations of it based on all the hype BW themselves spewed out, has not been met. The game is still enjoyable, and I will play it for a while yet. But I don't see myself playing this game for 9 years like I did EQ1, or 6 years like I have EVE, or 4 years (roughly) like I have PWI, or 2 years (roughly) like I have AION.

 

A year.. maybe. If things change in the game.. hey they might yet make a believer out of me. I am willing to give them the chance. But as the game stands right now. It doesn't meet the expectations I had, based on the hype they put out. Just my take. I said previously in another thread I'd give BW/EA about 6 months to a year to fix some of the more basic issues (UI is an example) and they HAVE started doing this. That's encouraging.

 

We'll see in 6 months. if it looks to me like things are getting better, i'll give them another 6 months and go from there.

 

I'm encouraged by BW's efforts. But I still reserve final judgement on the longevity of this game. If I decide it has little to no longevity for me personally. I'll unsub and move on. I hope not to do that, so again... we shall see.

 

~Saitada

Edited February 13, 2012 by Saitada

[Xaeberain]

I am not going to convince you of anything.....just trust me on this....

 

Yea...how about no?

 

If you cant come up with these many many things....that is because there isnt any.

 

Heroics, Raids/Ops, and PvP are what comprise the endgame of most if not all MMOs.

 

WoW and SWTOR are no different.

 

Fine you want to know what this game is missing....A compelling reason to play.

This crap was fine for WoW. TOR is not WoW. The same tired old bull gameplay and a decent story isn't going to cut it.

WoW had the benefit of being the game that took over when everyone was tired of EQ. They took that scenario, polished it, improved it and made it feel new.That was 7 years ago.

This is a brand new game with very similar gameplay. The problem is it isn't 2005 anymore and they couldn't even copy it right.

 

You want to know why this game will die? They churned out a game that was only intended to do one thing, make them a ton of money. They thought they could grab a big chunk of the MMO market by making a Star Wars WoW.

Well, they're doing it wrong.

They gave it a flimsy premise that belongs in a single player game and half-*****ed content at endgame that wouldn't have been acceptable in 2005.

Deny it all you want. You put crap in, you get crap out.

See you at the 6th month reunion of ex-TOR players.

[krinaman]

You're missing many many things.

I'm not going to convince you of anything so I'm not going to try.

Just trust me on this. TOR is going to collapse like a supernova and all the forgivers and excusers in the world aren't going to keep it alive.

The flaw is of their own design.

 

Maybe, maybe not. Who really cares? Honestly, I am playing the game because I am having fun. Could it use some improvements/changes? Sure, but then so could every other MMO/game I ever played.

 

When it stops being fun, I'll unsub and move onto the next game.

 

I really don't get this vested interest in seeing a game fail. Seriously, if you don't like it quit, uninstall, move on with your life.

[sanctimonia]

I've been playing MMO's for a very long time. The Hype I am talking about is BW/EA shouting from the rooftops that SWTOR is the greatest MMO to hit the market recently... and in some ways, yes it is, but in many ways as well.. it falls flat. It screams out... we're the best.. but when you get into the meat of the game, it's mediocrity at it's best and bland pablum at it's worst.

 

Don't get me wrong. I AM enjoying the game. But my expectations of it based on all the hype BW themselves spewed out, has not been met. The game is still enjoyable, and I will play it for a while yet. But I don't see myself playing this game for 9 years like I did EQ1, or 6 years like I have EVE, or 4 years like I have PWI, or 2 years (roughly) like I have AION.

 

A year.. maybe. If things change in the game.. hey they might yet make a believer out of me. I am willing to give them the chance. But as the game stands right now. It doesn't meet the expectations I had, based on the hype they put out. Just my take. I said previously in another thread I'd give BW/EA about 6 months to a year to fix some of the more basic issues (UI is an example) and they HAVE started doing this. That's encouraging.

 

We'll see in 6 months. if it looks to me like things are getting better, i'll give them another 6 months and go from there.

 

I'm encouraged by BW's efforts. But I still reserve final judgement on the longevity of this game. If I decide it has little to no longevity for me personally. I'll unsub and move on. I hope not to do that, so again... we shall see.

 

~Saitada

 

Every company is going to say their games is the best...and they will shout it whenever they can...its good business.

 

Just saying.

 

As a final fantasy fan I know that every game they come out with they are going to hype the best they can.

 

Doesnt mean I will but every one though and expect every one I do by to litereally reinvent the gamge genre.

[sanctimonia]

Fine you want to know what this game is missing....A compelling reason to play.

This crap was fine for WoW. TOR is not WoW. The same tired old bull gameplay and a decent story isn't going to cut it.

WoW had the benefit of being the game that took over when everyone was tired of EQ. They took that scenario, polished it, improved it and made it feel new.That was 7 years ago.

This is a brand new game with very similar gameplay. The problem is it isn't 2005 anymore and they couldn't even copy it right.

 

You want to know why this game will die? They churned out a game that was only intended to do one thing, make them a ton of money. They thought they could grab a big chunk of the MMO market by making a Star Wars WoW.

Well, they're doing it wrong.

They gave it a flimsy premise that belongs in a single player game and half-*****ed content at endgame that wouldn't have been acceptable in 2005.

Deny it all you want. You put crap in, you get crap out.

See you at the 6th month reunion of ex-TOR players.

 

I notice you still did not list any of the missing "end game" content WoW has the SWTOR does not have....

 

Again hitting level cap in WoW means:

 

1) You do heroics to gear for raids

 

2) You raid for the best gear you can get

 

3) You PvP for the best gear you can get

 

How is hitting level cap in SWTOR any different? What end game content do they not have?

 

EDIT: Also...why wouldnt they make a game to make money....afterall

 

they make money -> they make improvements to the game -> I enjoy the game more -> Thet get more money -> more improvements -> enjoyment -> money -> improvments ->

 

guess what comes next?

Edited February 13, 2012 by sanctimonia

[Kryptorchid]

If your first MMO came before WoW, then you can easily see how SWTOR doesn't feel like an MMO because those games had character, depth, and community. The blogger was spot on when he said the general MMO population has been conditioned by WoW into thinking about MMO's a certain way.

 

Having said that, I fall into the camp where I am just losing interest in the game by the minute. My Trooper is level 44, and ACT 3 is HORRIBLE so far that I just don't even feel like doing the story quests. Oh, and the fact that I have to run to Courscant every *********** quest because General Garza can't be bothered to use a Holocall. What the **** was BW thinking?

[Necrolepsy]

Most popular? I've never even heard of it.

[Saitada]

Every company is going to say their games is the best...and they will shout it whenever they can...its good business.

 

Just saying.

 

As a final fantasy fan I know that every game they come out with they are going to hype the best they can.

 

Doesnt mean I will but every one though and expect every one I do by to litereally reinvent the gamge genre.

 

Oh yeah I agree. I figured the hype was mostly overblown, but hoped the game would be half as good as the hype. In that, my expectations have been met in most things. Some things... I just scratch my head and go what the heck? (UI features being un-scaleable and un-moveable etc as an example, and thankfully they ARE working at fixing that.).

 

I would say that personally, about 1/2 of what I expected of the game has been met, and BW seems to be trying to work on some of the elements that they missed (UI again), so I DO have hope for the game. But I still reserve final wallet judgement.

 

~Saitada

[sanctimonia]

If your first MMO came before WoW, then you can easily see how SWTOR doesn't feel like an MMO because those games had character, depth, and community. The blogger was spot on when he said the general MMO population has been conditioned by WoW into thinking about MMO's a certain way.

 

And how so is this?

 

My first MMO was CoH (City of Heroes) and iirc that was before WoW...or at least before WoW got its major upstart.

 

 

SWTOR feels much the same what in the character depth and community aspects...

 

In fact I believe SWTOR has more Character and depth then any MMO currently the decisions you make and choices you choose really flesh out the characters.

 

The...."personatilty" of my SI feels a lot different than that of even my dark side Jedi

[DTuloJr]

Because his friends are clearly representative of the worldwide trend. When they start shorting a stock, it's the end of that company.

 

LOL If I had friends *that* powerful, I'd just have bought the company and done things the right way, from the ground up.

[Xaeberain]

I notice you still did not list any of the missing "end game" content WoW has the SWTOR does not have....

 

Again hitting level cap in WoW means:

 

1) You do heroics to gear for raids

 

2) You raid for the best gear you can get

 

3) You PvP for the best gear you can get

 

How is hitting level cap in SWTOR any different? What end game content do they not have?

 

How long does it take to do a raid in endgame?

A half hour? i know it's under an hour.

I'm sure it takes longer to get the raid together than to complete it.

How many raids are there? 3?

So they made a game that a person could easily cap out in less than a week, put in 3 very short raids that are shorter than most of WoW's dungeons and that's going to keep people going until they drop a new x-pac or big content upgrade?

yehrite.

 

They can reroll I suppose. That's what we were told. The game is meant to reroll until you've seen all 8 storylines. I've gotten all of my characters up to around 40. 6 of the 8 classes and I play infrequently. Now what? Finish them to 50 so I can do the 3 raids and the buggy as hell PVP?

I can barely get interested enough to finish the stories let alone drudge through another 10levels of mindless cut-scenes.

Doesn't matter I've cancelled my sub. I won't be missed and I certainly won't miss the game.

[Kryptorchid]

And how so is this?

 

My first MMO was CoH (City of Heroes) and iirc that was before WoW...or at least before WoW got its major upstart.

 

 

SWTOR feels much the same what in the character depth and community aspects...

 

In fact I believe SWTOR has more Character and depth then any MMO currently the decisions you make and choices you choose really flesh out the characters.

 

The...."personatilty" of my SI feels a lot different than that of even my dark side Jedi

 

Here is the difference between past MMO's (I would say CoH is a "modern" MMO like WoW even if it did come out prior to it, can't recall) and "modern" MMO's:

 

Past MMO -- If I wanted to be an evil person, I went around killing people and stealing their stuff.

Present MMO -- If I want to be an evil person, I roll the "evil" faction and do "evil" quests tat make NPC's that I will never see again mad at me.

 

Past MMO -- There was a reason for me to group up with other players and adventure in the world -- treasure hunting, protection while gathering/travelling, dungeon crawl, etc.

Present MMO -- There is no reason for me to group up with other players outside of Flashpoints and Operations. These are insulated zones and just keep the players away from game worlds.

[sanctimonia]

How long does it take to do a raid in endgame?

A half hour? i know it's under an hour.

I'm sure it takes longer to get the raid together than to complete it.

How many raids are there? 3?

So they made a game that a person could easily cap out in less than a week, put in 3 very short raids that are shorter than most of WoW's dungeons and that's going to keep people going until they drop a new x-pac or big content upgrade?

yehrite.

 

They can reroll I suppose. That's what we were told. The game is meant to reroll until you've seen all 8 storylines. I've gotten all of my characters up to around 40. 6 of the 8 classes and I play infrequently. Now what? Finish them to 50 so I can do the 3 raids and the buggy as hell PVP?

I can barely get interested enough to finish the stories let alone drudge through another 10levels of mindless cut-scenes.

Doesn't matter I've cancelled my sub. I won't be missed and I certainly won't miss the game.

 

You do know that a lot of gripe WoW has gotten recently was that its raids were too easy and too quick right? (Ragnoros "TOO SOON" ring a bell?)

 

If anything I would say this puts them on even ground in terms of WoW at vanilla and raid difficulty.

 

So again....I am still waiting for the magical 4th thing that WoW at endgame has that SWTOR doesnt.

[ironix]

I found the review quite apt.

[sanctimonia]

Here is the difference between past MMO's (I would say CoH is a "modern" MMO like WoW even if it did come out prior to it, can't recall) and "modern" MMO's:

 

Past MMO -- If I wanted to be an evil person, I went around killing people and stealing their stuff.

Present MMO -- If I want to be an evil person, I roll the "evil" faction and do "evil" quests tat make NPC's that I will never see again mad at me.

 

Past MMO -- There was a reason for me to group up with other players and adventure in the world -- treasure hunting, protection while gathering/travelling, dungeon crawl, etc.

Present MMO -- There is no reason for me to group up with other players outside of Flashpoints and Operations. These are insulated zones and just keep the players away from game worlds.

 

People as in players or NPC?

 

Again I as much as the next guy love PvP if not more so then him.

 

 

But I can see why the past MMOs are considered the past if they are like what you are saying.

 

As much fun as killing/stealing from other players is to the ganker....it is 10 times worse for the victim. Thus the game gets dominated by the few people who had the time to level cap and gear up early.

 

Reminds me of people in WoW saying that dieing should send you back X levels or to Level 1 just to make it "hardcore".

[Kryptorchid]

You do know that a lot of gripe WoW has gotten recently was that its raids were too easy and too quick right? (Ragnoros "TOO SOON" ring a bell?)

 

If anything I would say this puts them on even ground in terms of WoW at vanilla and raid difficulty.

 

So again....I am still waiting for the magical 4th thing that WoW at endgame has that SWTOR doesnt.

 

You just don't get it. People don't want what WoW has at end-game right now! The fact that you say "well hey, SWTOR is exactly what WoW has right now" is an admission to failure. Sure, people like raiding/PvPing/whatever, but they want something a) new, b) interesting, and c) fulfilling. Right now the only thing SWTOR has going for it end-game-wise is that it is new. It is not interesting or fulfilling.

[DTuloJr]

I am glad you know people who know people....

 

The fact is though that you are not counting the people who are liking this game and getting their friends to join and their friends get other friends to join and so on....

 

Given the current rise in subs it seems as though you and your friends are a bit outnumbered.

 

BTW how do you know for a "fact" that they have been hurt?

 

Of course I am. I'm also a realist. We won't absolutely know for certain which way things are going for another 3 months. However, the simple facts that 1) they didn't predict a break-even date on their stock holder call, which is the ONLY indicator of how good/bad they're doing, 2) they are suddenly adding in numerous features that their beta testers screamed needed to be in by launch, over 1.5 YEARS ago, and 3) they have numerous "community outreach" initiatives they announced the very next day after their "everything's great! trust us!" stock holder call, all points to some executives being in a panic. Businesses don't committ resources to something unless the return on the investment can be justified. That is a cold, harsh fact of reality.

 

Adding in or changing major features so very soon after launch is a stop-loss tactic. One thing I hope to NOT see, however, is server consolidation. If we see that happen... then we know for certain things did not go very well. That is the one thing I don't think BWA will ever do in the immediate future, as that would be admitting failure on some levels.

[DigitalDreamz]

I am not going to convince you of anything.....just trust me on this....

 

Yea...how about no?

 

If you cant come up with these many many things....that is because there isnt any.

 

Heroics, Raids/Ops, and PvP are what comprise the endgame of most if not all MMOs.

 

WoW and SWTOR are no different.

 

 

What SWTOR doesn't have:

No rep grinds, no meaningful crafting, no mini-maxing, no combat logs, no addons, no arenas, no rated BGs, not even a 1/4 of WoWs raids strictly speaking of Cataclysm only, no reforging, no guild benefits, no achievements, no tournaments, no dps meters, no LFR, no dynamic loot table, no enchanting, no dual spec, no LFG, no story past 50.

 

 

What SWTOR does have:

Ability delay, bugs, a lack of day/night, lifeless small linear planets, Ilum, garbage performance, stale talent trees, single threaded engine, spacebar, load times, 20 fps on fleet, client freeze if you open and close your character pane too many times, terrible graphics for high res (looks like my armor was drawn in crayon), memory leaks, pvp imbalances, plenty of RNG for your bags, awful GCD indicator, same old raid/heroics

 

 

Why would I or anyone else who don't much care for the Star Wars IP want to spend our 15 dollars a month for this game when other games just do things so much better? I tend to cringe when SWTOR is compared to WoW. Really SWTOR isn't even in the same league as RIFT let alone WoW.

[Reaperchris]

One of his complaints was that the Questing was like WoW which WoW didn't even start. I had to stop reading after I saw that because his opinion is useless at that point.

[Xaeberain]

You do know that a lot of gripe WoW has gotten recently was that its raids were too easy and too quick right? (Ragnoros "TOO SOON" ring a bell?)

 

If anything I would say this puts them on even ground in terms of WoW at vanilla and raid difficulty.

 

So again....I am still waiting for the magical 4th thing that WoW at endgame has that SWTOR doesnt.

 

Community. Yeah they're mean and cranky and outright hostile but there is a community to talk to in endgame WoW.

TOR has no community. Players don't talk to each other, very rarely group up and that's on a good day. Most days you wouldn't have a clue you weren't playing a single player game.

 

Interaction is another big thing that keeps people playing MMOs at endgame and another big thing TOR doesn't have.

[SamuraBob_Fl]

Did someone just complain about a lack of rep grinds?

 

Lol?

[Kryptorchid]

People as in players or NPC?

 

Again I as much as the next guy love PvP if not more so then him.

 

 

But I can see why the past MMOs are considered the past if they are like what you are saying.

 

As much fun as killing/stealing from other players is to the ganker....it is 10 times worse for the victim. Thus the game gets dominated by the few people who had the time to level cap and gear up early.

 

Reminds me of people in WoW saying that dieing should send you back X levels or to Level 1 just to make it "hardcore".

 

People as in "players and/or NPCs."

 

Example: In UO you could be a "Murderer." This made it so you could no longer go into any of the normal towns and access the vendors/banks there. Instead, you had to go to the rogue city of Buccaneer's Den to use your bank. The only way you could acquire goods from then on was from monsters, other players, or player-vendors.

 

In order to become a "murderer", you could kill town NPCs (5 kills would make you a "criminal" 5 more would make you a "murder" IIRC) or other players.

 

It had a Karma system that gave you +/- Karma based on your deeds (kill evil player/mob and you get +Karma; kill good mob/player get -karma). You basically played the game how you wanted, everything happened within the game world, not in some secluded story-instances. That's the difference.