CupieFoxtail Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Yes I killed Yogg and so did many others on my server I didn't say Yogg. I said Yogg 0 lights. It was very, very different than that carebear version you chose to play. Accordingly, it had different gear that dropped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blavatsky Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 You couldn't compete, so you stayed out of it. Simple as that. Gamers and game developers alike (including those at BioWare) will tell you WoW is a masterfully crafted, best-of-breed game that pushed the the genre and industry forward, and in fact made games like TOR possible. WoW is well designed sure, i think they put out a polished product. Yes, it did wonders for the industry etc etc. You are offering rebuttal to an arguement I am not making. WoW was meant to be an easy game , WoW is an Easy game. The only exception I can see here is PvP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeda Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I didn't say Yogg. I said Yogg 0 lights. It was very, very different than that carebear version you chose to play. Accordingly, it had different gear that dropped. He also didnt say he killed it at level 80. I know a bunch of casuals that went in at level 85 in firelands gear and killed it, I also know alot couldnt even do it at 85. Watching your sanity is hard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blavatsky Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I didn't say Yogg. I said Yogg 0 lights. It was very, very different than that carebear version you chose to play. Accordingly, it had different gear that dropped. Artificial difficulties that the players must impose upon themselves do not mean the game is hard , in fact you are proving my point. The game is designed to be easy " carebear" as you said. If you'd like it to be hard , then you have to make your own cheesy in game restrictions like. Kill the boss with his adds up or Kill boss in such and such timespan. Kill boss with debuff on ... Then you get some acheivement. Easy WoW is Easy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CupieFoxtail Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) Artificial difficulties that the players must impose upon themselves do not mean the game is hard That is not an artificial difficulty anymore than a new tier of raiding in any game is artificial difficulty That is a completely seperate boss mode. If you did not complete that encounter at the time, you simply were not a top tier raider. There were no encounters in EQ that were as mechanically difficult as yogg 0 lights. You can't say it's easy if you never beat the hardest content in the game. When you say that is easy from such an uninformed position, you are showing incredible ignorance. Edited February 15, 2012 by CupieFoxtail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeda Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Artificial difficulties that the players must impose upon themselves do not mean the game is hard , in fact you are proving my point. The game is designed to be easy " carebear" as you said. If you'd like it to be hard , then you have to make your own cheesy in game restrictions like. Kill the boss with his adds up or Kill boss in such and such timespan. Kill boss with debuff on ... Then you get some acheivement. Easy WoW is Easy But being able to 4 man an OPS means that OPS are hard? WoW fights were much harder than it is in SWTOR. There were many fights where one mistake could wipe your raid. Now once you overgeared the fights and they were nerfed by 25% they became easier but still not as easy as SWTOR fights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blavatsky Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 That is not an artificial difficulty anymore than a new tier of raiding in any game is artificial difficulty That is a completely seperate boss mode. If you did not complete that encounter at the time, you simply were not a top tier raider. There were no encounters in EQ that were as mechanically difficult as yogg 0 lights. Fine... The game is still easy despite whatever attributes you insist are true about Yogg Carebare w/e. I've played many games, as we all have. WoW is the easiest by far. IT IS KNOWN as the easy game , it is synonymous with EASY and has always been that way from start to finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blavatsky Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) But being able to 4 man an OPS means that OPS are hard? WoW fights were much harder than it is in SWTOR. There were many fights where one mistake could wipe your raid. Now once you overgeared the fights and they were nerfed by 25% they became easier but still not as easy as SWTOR fights This game is pretty easy too , no argument there have'nt done any raiding but so far leveling is harder. Then again I can barely remember original WoW level since its been bastardized beyond recognition Edited February 15, 2012 by Blavatsky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CupieFoxtail Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 WoW fights were much harder than it is in SWTOR. Naturally, Blizzard has had much more time to practice and fine tune their mechanics than Bioware First raids in an MMO are always pretty easy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CupieFoxtail Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 WoW is the easiest by far. Any game is the easiest if you play like a noob, slapping around level 5s in the starter zone for years But I guess choosing to play against mobs of equivalent level to yourself is "artificial difficulty", so it doesn't count as difficulty in a game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starmanmmo Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 WoW is well designed sure, i think they put out a polished product. Yes, it did wonders for the industry etc etc. You are offering rebuttal to an arguement I am not making. WoW was meant to be an easy game , WoW is an Easy game. The only exception I can see here is PvP WoW was an easy game after BC. Before then it wasn't easy. Tell me MC 40-man or BWL 40-man, or Naxx 40-man was EASY. It was not. You just didn't do those instances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blavatsky Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I'll concede one difficulty BC era heroics in their original state. Those were hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starmanmmo Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Artificial difficulties that the players must impose upon themselves do not mean the game is hard , in fact you are proving my point. The game is designed to be easy " carebear" as you said. If you'd like it to be hard , then you have to make your own cheesy in game restrictions like. Kill the boss with his adds up or Kill boss in such and such timespan. Kill boss with debuff on ... Then you get some acheivement. Easy WoW is Easy So you're saying that Nightmare mode in SWTOR is "artificial"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blavatsky Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 WoW was an easy game after BC. Before then it wasn't easy. Tell me MC 40-man or BWL 40-man, or Naxx 40-man was EASY. It was not. You just didn't do those instances. Wasnt original Naxx the most underused raid dungeon? I thought many didnt do that . But yeah , never did original Naxx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blavatsky Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 So you're saying that Nightmare mode in SWTOR is "artificial"? no idea what nightmare mode is. Natural difficutly would be , coded into the encounter itself. Artificial is something the player introduces , like not removing a debuff from the tank. The game just happens to recognize it. And you get some acheivement. SWOTR needs acheivments btw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CupieFoxtail Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) Artificial is something the player introduces , Like questing at your level when you can do quests five levels lower? All difficulty in MMO's is a choice. Edited February 15, 2012 by CupieFoxtail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starmanmmo Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Wasnt original Naxx the most underused raid dungeon? I thought many didnt do that . But yeah , never did original Naxx. It was released a few months before BC. It was hard. VERY, VERY hard. That's why not many people did it. My guild did, but we never finished it because people didn't want to work their *** off when a gear reset was coming in a few months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starmanmmo Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 no idea what nightmare mode is. Natural difficutly would be , coded into the encounter itself. Artificial is something the player introduces , like not removing a debuff from the tank. The game just happens to recognize it. And you get some acheivement. SWOTR needs acheivments btw If you don't know what nightmare mode is, well, you shouldn't even be posting in a thread about how hard an MMO is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CupieFoxtail Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 It was released a few months before BC. It was hard. VERY, VERY hard. That's why not many people did it. Just getting into naxx was a terrible pain in the wallet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeda Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I'll concede one difficulty BC era heroics in their original state. Those were hard. What was the biggest change that Blizzard did to start the path to easy fights? One guess and it started a late in TBC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blavatsky Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 If you don't know what nightmare mode is, well, you shouldn't even be posting in a thread about how hard an MMO is. Sure I can post , especially since were discussing the difficulty of other games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeda Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Wasnt original Naxx the most underused raid dungeon? I thought many didnt do that . But yeah , never did original Naxx. Dont know what the actual numbers were but only 3 guilds on our server were in naxx and we were up to 4H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeda Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Just getting into naxx was a terrible pain in the wallet Was free at exalted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrage Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Original Ony in WoW was a complete #@$*(. It was about 2 months before anyone world wide beat it. It was about 4 months before we did server first on our server. Much longer before most even tried. MC? It was like 6 months before anyone in the world cleared it completely. Now, that time wasn't all because of difficulty, but it wasn't easy. And most sure as heck didn't see that content for a loooong time. WoW didn't have a ton of end-game content but it was freaking hard at release. We didn't just rep grind and show up to beat it, we grinded instance after instance and collected specific gear and grinded tradeskills en masse. And bringing her head back to Org was one of the coolest moments I've ever had in a game. The dedication to do that content during the first few months it was out was enormous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blavatsky Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I'd like to retract my earlier statements. WoW is Hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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