MMO Vets, What do you think?

[Fikkan]

For the price, this would have made a decent single player game... if I'd have waited for the price to come down.

 

As an mmo, I don't see it lasting long before it's driven into the "free to play" market.

 

On the other hand, I seem to have come full circle in my own mmo travels.

 

Started out with EQ1 at about the same time Kunark expansion went pub.

 

I recall being a bit bent on the loooonnnngggg travel times to get from one area to another, especially if boat travel was included.

 

I recall hating sitting in zone doing the LFG shout out waiting from some group to need a new puller/tank warrior.

 

I recall thinking it taking a week or so of steady work to ding a level to be a bit much. I also recall being a bit miffed over the whole "unding" aspect of trying to solo a warrior.

 

I hated corps runs, especially when a necro wasn't available and my bod, with all my raid gear, was stuck in the bottom of The Hole or the Plane of Hate or wherever. Oh, and I really hated having to pay Magikers and such to bind my char near the hunting area or for a port from where ever to where ever else.

 

I did always find the hunt for my corps in a new zone at early levels when my compass wasn't leveled up and no online maps were available ingame to be frustrating but funny.

 

Now though, I miss all the rough edges of play where the game made me feel like I'd actually earned something when I got it, be that something a decent piece of gear, a level, or simply surviving a hunt or being able to recover after character death.

 

Games these days, except for those like Eve Online, which are rare as hens teeth anymore, give me no sense of having earned anything at all. They can be fun wastes of time for a bit, but the shiny wears off way too fast anymore.

[Arkerus]

For the price, this would have made a decent single player game... if I'd have waited for the price to come down.

 

As an mmo, I don't see it lasting long before it's driven into the "free to play" market.

 

On the other hand, I seem to have come full circle in my own mmo travels.

 

Started out with EQ1 at about the same time Kunark expansion went pub.

 

I recall being a bit bent on the loooonnnngggg travel times to get from one area to another, especially if boat travel was included.

 

I recall hating sitting in zone doing the LFG shout out waiting from some group to need a new puller/tank warrior.

 

I recall thinking it taking a week or so of steady work to ding a level to be a bit much. I also recall being a bit miffed over the whole "unding" aspect of trying to solo a warrior.

 

I hated corps runs, especially when a necro wasn't available and my bod, with all my raid gear, was stuck in the bottom of The Hole or the Plane of Hate or wherever. Oh, and I really hated having to pay Magikers and such to bind my char near the hunting area or for a port from where ever to where ever else.

 

I did always find the hunt for my corps in a new zone at early levels when my compass wasn't leveled up and no online maps were available ingame to be frustrating but funny.

 

Now though, I miss all the rough edges of play where the game made me feel like I'd actually earned something when I got it, be that something a decent piece of gear, a level, or simply surviving a hunt or being able to recover after character death.

 

Games these days, except for those like Eve Online, which are rare as hens teeth anymore, give me no sense of having earned anything at all. They can be fun wastes of time for a bit, but the shiny wears off way too fast anymore.

 

Quoting this so I can find it when you are completely wrong.

[Fikkan]

When, pray tell, will I be completely wrong? Is it a specific level? Raiding for the sake of raiding because there's nothing left to do but go raiding... after a month or less of leveling a character?

 

I am playing the game.. for now.. so I'd appreciate you telling me when it gets off teddy bear mode?

[Arrys]

Casual gamers are a very fickle lot with a short atten

 

And hardcore gamers aren't numerous enough to financially support the game they want at 15 a month?

[Stoj]

How about this: 1 developer makes a game that is hard, tedious, non-solo friendly, themepark/sandbox mix that all the "Old School" gamers will flock to and stick with, because it reminds us of when MMO's were great in the past.

 

The people that want to buy 3 titles a year in search of something great can continue to do that.

 

Fair enough?

 

Old school gamers aren't a big enough part of the population to allow that. I wish we lived in a world where game developers were given infinite cash to do whatever they wanted, and it didn't matter whether they recouped development costs and turned a profit, but we don't.

 

I'm sure the developers wish they could make a game that you'd absolutely love, but your $15 a month just isn't enough for them all to live on.

[gotem]

Enjoyed the leveling experience but the end game PvP and PvE is just not that polished at the moment.

 

Game time runs out in 3 days won't renew. Will probably keep tabs on it for a while but been reading about MoP plans from Blizzard and from what I've read it looks like they are going back to the old school plans that made the game so popular.

[Cancrizans]

No we can thank the casuals that played WoW. No, really

 

Your sig makes no sense. If you pay attention you will see most of the people who spend their time on the forums make negative posts. But compare them to the huge number who are playing the game at any given time and you will see how insignificant the number of complainers are compared to the number of people who are playing and having fun.

[Stoj]

Your sig makes no sense. If you pay attention you will see most of the people who spend their time on the forums make negative posts. But compare them to the huge number who are playing the game at any given time and you will see how insignificant the number of complainers are compared to the number of people who are playing and having fun.

 

Exactly. The rest of us are people who enjoy the game and are browsing the forums while at work, because we can't play now.

[Kalfear]

Wikipedia:

 

The term MMORPG was coined by Richard Garriott, the creator of Ultima Online, in 1997.[18] The term probably derives from "MMOG", which can be traced back to the 1995 E3 Convention, when Dale Addink used it to describe Confirmed Kill

 

In 1999, following Ultima Online and EverQuest, was another hit, Asheron's Call. Together, these three games are sometimes referred to as the original "big three" of the late 1990s.

 

Everything prior was considered a MUD. Yes, I have been playing MMORPG's since 1998. I am talking about large scale, internet based, 3D games. Your MUD's were 2D and not MMORPG's.

 

Yes - I started on UO - but very little. Bought EQ as it was released and have been playing ever since.

 

Ummm first MMORPG was Neverwinter Nights

 

I just looked up the wiki and its been changed to multi player but thats the problem with wiki, fan changes rather then fact.

 

FACT is NWN at closing supported 250 less load then UO did at release as a max load!

 

So how 1000 is called massibe but 750 isnt beyond me

 

Personally Ive never seen a multiplayer game with 750 players playing at one time togather!

4? sure

8? when the late 90s hit.

16? once networking became popular

but 250, 500, 750? Thats definately not just multiplayer

 

But what ever, so bored of argueing this with kids that were not around for the start!

 

Never Winter Nights was the first MMORPG circa 91-97 and allowed loads of 200-500-750 to play at one time.

Was the first MMORPG where you designed your character appearence

Was also the first MMORPG with PVP

Was Also the first MMORPG with exspansion

 

Followed by The Realms that was first MMORPG with player houseing

 

Followed by Dark Sun Online

Followed by Meridian 59

Followed by Twilight Lands

 

AND THEN UO hit the scene

 

If you call any of those titles a mud, you have no clue what a mud was, is, will forever be.

 

Sorry but ive about had it with modern players rewriting false history online to suit themselves!

 

Garriot might have coined the term, sounds about right

But just called they were galled something else before UO doesnt change what they were!

 

Back in 91, 200 players interacting in the same game at the same time was MASSIVE BEYOND BELEIF.

 

What next? McDonalds created the hamburger because you were not around for its earlier versions?

 

A pig is a pig

A dog is a dog

and a MMORPG is a MMORPG no matter what you called it.

 

MUDs were vastly different types of programs then what NWN offered up. Then what The Realms offered up, Then what DSO offered up, then what M59 offered up, then what Twilight lands offered up.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Kalfear

[Minderbinder]

I know it might be shocking to hear...but people like you have to understand...

 

The game isn't designed for people like you. Nor do people like me want the game to change to be based on "communities".

 

I have ZERO problems with the segregated planets and zones. When I want to group I will let people know (and I do).

 

Are you serious? What do you plan on doing when you hit 50? Solo Ops? What do you think 99.5% of an MMO is? Leveling takes a couple months, people have played the same main for YEARS in other games.

 

Fact is, there was no-one in Voss, no-one in Corellia, no-one grouping for flashpoints, no-one grouping for Hardmodes, I just spent 45 minutes hanging around Fleet. You like a single player game? Play one, this is not a single player game.

 

Broken community = Broken MMO.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Minderbinder

[Emeda]

Your sig makes no sense. If you pay attention you will see most of the people who spend their time on the forums make negative posts. But compare them to the huge number who are playing the game at any given time and you will see how insignificant the number of complainers are compared to the number of people who are playing and having fun.

 

Yet here you are on the forums saying my sig is wrong. Shouldnt you be logged in playing instead of reading my sig.

[TonyIommi]

Yet here you are on the forums saying my sig is wrong. Shouldnt you be logged in playing instead of reading my sig.

 

Alt tabbing while waiting for pvp to start is extremely hard. This is killin me.

[Emeda]

Alt tabbing while waiting for pvp to start is extremely hard. This is killin me.

 

Yeah thats almost as good as the excuse of were on a 5 min break in our ops, while the poster of that had been making posts for 8 mins before and continued making posts for another 15.

[Kaelshi]

Ummm first MMORPG was Neverwinter Nights

 

I just looked up the wiki and its been changed to multi player but thats the problem with wiki, fan changes rather then fact.

 

FACT is NWN at closing supported 250 less load then UO did at release as a max load!

 

So how 1000 is called massibe but 750 isnt beyond me

 

Personally Ive never seen a multiplayer game with 750 players playing at one time togather!

4? sure

8? when the late 90s hit.

16? once networking became popular

but 250, 500, 750? Thats definately not just multiplayer

 

But what ever, so bored of argueing this with kids that were not around for the start!

 

Never Winter Nights was the first MMORPG circa 91-97 and allowed loads of 200-500-750 to play at one time.

Was the first MMORPG where you designed your character appearence

Was also the first MMORPG with PVP

Was Also the first MMORPG with exspansion

 

Followed by The Realms that was first MMORPG with player houseing

 

Followed by Dark Sun Online

Followed by Meridian 59

Followed by Twilight Lands

 

AND THEN UO hit the scene

 

If you call any of those titles a mud, you have no clue what a mud was, is, will forever be.

 

Sorry but ive about had it with modern players rewriting false history online to suit themselves!

 

Garriot might have coined the term, sounds about right

But just called they were galled something else before UO doesnt change what they were!

 

Back in 91, 200 players interacting in the same game at the same time was MASSIVE BEYOND BELEIF.

 

What next? McDonalds created the hamburger because you were not around for its earlier versions?

 

A pig is a pig

A dog is a dog

and a MMORPG is a MMORPG no matter what you called it.

 

MUDs were vastly different types of programs then what NWN offered up. Then what The Realms offered up, Then what DSO offered up, then what M59 offered up, then what Twilight lands offered up.

 

thank you sir! I am so happy to see someone else who not only remembers those games but is not so silly to called them anything then what they were.

 

Meridian 59 at one point had a higher population than UO did before its decline.

[Kalfear]

The fact still remains, as I stated, that UO, EQ, and AC are considered in the industry as the founding 3. I didn't appoint them the founding 3 - so don't blame me. The gaming industry and the consumers consider those 3 games the "Founding 3".

 

no those were the 3 from your age group.

You have no clue what your talking about!

Even Garriot gave acknowldgement to those that came before him

To bad his fan base dont

 

 

No need to lecture me about when the start of the MMORPG era began - I have Wiki on my side. You have - well your thoughts. While i do not discredit what you are saying, you may in fact be correct about those prior titles that you mentioned. However, the fact still remains - UO, EQ, AC = Founding 3.

 

clearly there is because you have no idea what your talking about

 

You grabing the 3 bigg games at the time you started and calling them the creators!

 

Want actual MMORPG history from someone thats been through it!

 

I alread lectured you on who really started this genre and when!

 

As for big 3

 

UO, EQ, WOW

 

AC has not EVER been called a big 3 game except by its fan base and even then its miss leading as they saying its a big 3 when there was 3 mmorpgs competing for position.

 

Me I call that LAST, not 3rd.

 

Every time a new game released after AC, AC dropped another spot in the rankings.

 

 

So seeing that it is generally accepted as truth by everyone apparently but you, that UO, EQ and AC are the Founding 3 of the MMORPG era/explosion - let's stick to that time frame when we talk about the first MMORPG's.

 

Bul;l pucky and horse manure!

 

Complete fabrication of events.

 

UO is famous for breaking the 1000 players online mark and for having persistant houseing (despite its fall from grace) and crafting

 

EQ is the biggun that set the modern table for all MMORPGs to come including WOW

 

AC, most people dont even know its name. Offered up nothing to the genre and was vastly ignored by the then fringe player base (which by the way was over 1 million already at that time)

 

But FACT of matter is the first MMORPG (not MUD, MMORPG) released in 1991 on AOL and was a HUGE money maker for AOL (earning in access 1 million a month back in 91 from user fees) for a number of year with earning that eclipsed its later released cousins like AC, AO, and others.

 

NWN spawned the creation of The Relams, Dark Sun Online, Merdian 59, and eventually came Ultima Online once it was clear there was a market for these games.

 

UO didnt create the market, UO was the first to truely explode and expoit the market!

Two vastly different things that seems to escape your understanding.

 

Then - everything I stated in my long post is 100% accurate. Therefor, the need to try and argue this any further with me is pointless, because we aren't talking apples and apples. We are talking 2D graphics based games vs 3D 1st person MMORPG's. There is a huge difference in that era, and you know it.

 

To the guy that went on his long rant about WoW - I think you are the perfect candidate to articulate what I am saying. Color of gear, soloing - did you read my post? WoW was the start of the decline for players that played MMO's for 6 years prior to WoW. It was fast, simple, instant gratification - it was everything older titles were not. I'm not going to argue this with you either any further. Clearly, as you stated, WoW was your first experience. It is fair to say that you have absolutley no idea what I am talking about when it comes to the founding 3 -and the start of the MMORPG genre.

 

Listen I agreed with your earlier post (mostly) about what games need but what your saying about the creation of the genre is not accurate, not even remotely! Its pretty clear you dont know what and where the genre started and throw about terms like MUD with no concept what that means or is.

 

So please, stop talking about your precious 3 games (that happen to be the first 3 to release AFTER YOU STARTED PLAYING) as creators. Only EQ stands as a creator. UO was big till EQ came out, then it died a painfull death. AC never got off the ground to be called big by the genre.

[TonyIommi]

Yeah thats almost as good as the excuse of were on a 5 min break in our ops, while the poster of that had been making posts for 8 mins before and continued making posts for another 15.

 

Alt tabbed waiting for next que. Really really taking alot of effort man.

[Kalfear]

thank you sir! I am so happy to see someone else who not only remembers those games but is not so silly to called them anything then what they were.

 

Meridian 59 at one point had a higher population than UO did before its decline.

 

heh np

 

I absolutely hate the self importance era of gameing rewiting history!

 

NWN got some media attention (thats how I learned of it in Edmonton Alberta Canada and started bugging AOL to get local access dial up numbers to join in) but Ultima Online got the big attention because of the big franchise name and budget.

 

But big budget doesnt make someone first

or best.

 

You can still play a NWN clone (Forgotten World), still play The Realms, I reloaded DSO few years ago so know they still going, not sure on M59 and know Twilight Lands didnt last long after release.

 

So if anyone doesnt beleive they were not muds, go download them and play and you will see.

 

Those games are the for father tho everything UO and EQ did. Only big diff is UO and EQ were the first games of the new real time era where as those other games wtill utilized older turn based engines (NWN was based off the old SSI Gold Box Engine. Dark Sun Online was based off the SSI Dark Sun engine, Meridian 59 was based off the SSI Ravenloaf engine.

 

ALL GRAPHICAL DRIVEN GAME ENGINES

[Kaelshi]

heh np

 

I absolutely hate the self importance era of gameing rewiting history!

 

NWN got some media attention (thats how I learned of it in Edmonton Alberta Canada and started bugging AOL to get local access dial up numbers to join in) but Ultima Online got the big attention because of the big franchise name and budget.

 

But big budget doesnt make someone first

or best.

 

You can still play a NWN clone (Forgotten World), still play The Realms, I reloaded DSO few years ago so know they still going, not sure on M59 and know Twilight Lands didnt last long after release.

 

So if anyone doesnt beleive they were not muds, go download them and play and you will see.

 

Those games are the for father tho everything UO and EQ did. Only big diff is UO and EQ were the first games of the new real time era where as those other games wtill utilized older turn based engines (NWN was based off the old SSI Gold Box Engine. Dark Sun Online was based off the SSI Dark Sun engine, Meridian 59 was based off the SSI Ravenloaf engine.

 

ALL GRAPHICAL DRIVEN GAME ENGINES

 

I always kept with M59 - back in like 03 or something a couple of former admins or something bought it and put it online(I even paid to play that game in like 2005 .

 

As of now the Kirmse brothers(original creators) took over - it's a free game to play but populations are low(I think like 50 people are regularly on 1 server and much lower on the second). It's just people though who have played for the past like 15-20 years though - not very fun to start out new on.

 

I had forgotten completely about The Realms until you mentioned it - I did not play it long but recall enjoying it because it was quite a bit different than Meridian. I wish I could say I had played NWN but I was only 14 when M59 came out and before that we didnt even have a computer

[oakamp]

As for big 3

 

UO, EQ, WOW

 

AC has not EVER been called a big 3 game

^^ this.

[jeepoverland]

Played MMOs for 16 years now.

 

This is the worst MMO I've ever played, followed by FFXIV and then AION.

[Kalfear]

I always kept with M59 - back in like 03 or something a couple of former admins or something bought it and put it online(I even paid to play that game in like 2005 .

 

As of now the Kirmse brothers(original creators) took over - it's a free game to play but populations are low(I think like 50 people are regularly on 1 server and much lower on the second). It's just people though who have played for the past like 15-20 years though - not very fun to start out new on.

 

I had forgotten completely about The Realms until you mentioned it - I did not play it long but recall enjoying it because it was quite a bit different than Meridian. I wish I could say I had played NWN but I was only 14 when M59 came out and before that we didnt even have a computer

 

hehe NWN was a insanely expensive game so not for kids.

 

We paid $20.00 for 20 hours a month and then $2.95/hour ($3.95/hour for me in canada) after that.

 

My average bill was $300.00-$500.00/month though I do think I topped out at $800.00 one particularly guild activity filled month (think that month we had a War with BDA and started 2 events a week for guild). Even back then my guild I was in was over 50 players strong and active.

 

The community was amazing though and honestly ruined all future games.

Im not talking the rose tinted glasses memory of SWG and UO players where you ignore the bad and only remember the good.

 

In NWN, as it was so freaking costly to play, no one had the time or effort to troll, flame, ect each other. Every player went in trying to maximize the experience for themselve and those around them so when that RPer started RPing during PVP (remember turn based), you went along with it rather then moaning about RPers.

 

When that PVPer jumped you in hills (PVP Zone so not ganking), you gave your best fight rather then whining and moaning about those dang PVPers.

 

And that created a solid community thats still togather to this day!

In fact I play nightly with a guildmate I met in NWN on AOL here in TOR

Another old friend just asked if I could show his kids the ropes

Other guilds have difted to different servers yet they still talk and interact on Facebook and at Forgotten World

 

21 years later and they still going strong togather.

LOL, thats longer then allot of marriages I know of.

 

But yeah, if someone was to look back at the hostories of these games, everything you see today, EVERYTHING, was done in NWN, Realms, DSO, Meridian59.

 

Its all there, all covered.

 

PVP, warzones, ladders, housing, dyes, role play, auction house, raids, dailies, you name it, its in one of those 4 games. Maybe in its most basic and undeveloped form still, but its there for future games to grow off of.

 

Its a shame that so few take the time to actually learn the real history of the genre. Its a very interesting read to be honest.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Kalfear

[rtek]

I think it is the only game worth to play after wow and eve online. Rest on the market is crap. You got so many unique character stories, huge planets with awesome graphics, good pvp. Most of players forget that swtor is mmorpg and RPG is role playing game, you need to love star wars to enjoy this game and you need to be role player. What i can hear here is all the time some whining about gear or waiting in fleet station. It is fault of new generation of players--they are simply to lazy to go out and search for fun. I level now my third character to 50 and have fun like i never had before. Like i said before---whiners you will find in every game and most of the time are the same 500-600 people qwhining about everything on forums, so called forum worms. This games is best mmo on the market and i know that, have accounts on almost every mmo out there worth playing. It is first one that holds me so long after wow and eve online.

[rtek]

Yet here you are on the forums saying my sig is wrong. Shouldnt you be logged in playing instead of reading my sig.

Well i am not one of them, but now is patch time. And if you look and search on forums you will find few post from us players who like this game and you will find so many post from whiners like you

[eighteenistoold]

My thoughts are in the link in my sig (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=216855). To that post, add this:

 

- No day/night cycle

- No swimming

- No housing

- No Pazaak, Sabacc, Dejarik, races, casino, etc...

- Dumbed down character creation

- No post-creation character customization

- No appearance tab/outfit system

- No high res textures

- No environmental interaction (chairs, walls, doors, etc...)

- Simple combat with static enemies

- Unconvincing and stiff animations

- Empty dead worlds with not enough NPCs moving around

- No collision detection

- No stats on resources

- No crafting customization

- Restriction in choice of starship

- No ship decoration

- Dumbed down space combat

- No multiplayer space combat

- Removal of many races

- No faction change/neutrality

- Restriction and instanced planets by faction

- Less planets than announced

- Planets rated by levels with no reason to go back

- No GM events

- Removal of choice to kill companion

- Removal of possibility to talk to other faction at all times

- No RP tools

- Nothing to do post-story

- Endgame consisting on waiting in fleet

 

oh and horrible pvp that is made for ranged classes to get off to melting ants (melee) with magnifying glasses (snipe, tracer missile, force lightning)

[Devastromm]

The real issue, apart from bugs, is that the game has very little to offer at lvl 50. Operations are easy and drop a load of stuff. After running operations in hm for 2-3 weeks there's nothing to do... you'd say nightmare mode... meh with the same bosses as normal and hard mode and the SAME drops as hard mode? Someone will say "stop complaining and do nightmare mode"... yeah sure... if you are in a guild that plays for glory (to be able to say "I cleared nightmare mode") you could do that (about... 3 guilds per server? ^^').

PvP has no beginning and no end... farm in Ilium, farm warzones.

 

Everything PVEwise is too easy (it can be difficult due to bugs), from getting drops, to ops. PVP completely lacks of "endgame", the only difference between pvping at lvl 10 and 50 is """pvp""" in Ilium.