How to stop leavers in warzones without a stupid penalty

[lJustAlexl]

Why would anybody just spend time and mooch like that? i mean seriously...if your going to go afk then loose all credit for being there and potentiall suffer a penalty... if you are going to toss a heal afound every now and then then your not afk... so why not make the best of a fight...

 

your just trying to be difficult tbh...

 

warzones are seriously suffering with dropouts....i see no reason not to give a 1 hour debuff penalty for dropouts... and a vote button for afk's... the only people who loose out are people who really dont give a **** if they are spoiling others peoples enjoyment of the game....they deserve what they get to be honest...

 

Because people do this now. It's like those in favor of penalizing afkers and quitters have no idea how badly those players are justifying their choices. They really want to expend the least amount of effort possible because they feel anything more isn't worth it in a losing match. Punishing them for that will change nothing.

 

Like the OP said, we just need to reward cooperation and gameplay instead of victory alone. No one would ever leave if the greatest rewards are provided by trying your hardest or playing as best you can. It would be up to the individual player then but still reinforce objective and team-based play. There are no reasonable negative consequences to this idea.

Edited February 13, 2012 by lJustAlexl

[Smashbrother]

I don't know that I strictly need to re-iterate the first part of this, but when I ask the question as part of a longer post, this one is ALWAYS ignored, so here goes:

 

- Desertion penalty means people will stay and just AFK instead

- AFK penalty will mean that people put it the bare minimum to "not be" considered mechanically afk.

 

So we come to Skyflash's idea that players will decide who is AFK by voting. How is that actually going to work? If I wanted to, I could hang around with the pack, toss on the odd heal every now and again, and put in no real effort at all.

 

At no point am I AFK. Other players can see me doing stuff now and again, and generally moving with the game. How does anyone tell the difference between someone who is not trying, and some who is just aweful at the game?

 

Can someone PLEASE answer me that. Because as it stands, AFK voting won't work. It would be FAR too open to abuse and people will use this "anti-afk" feature to kick bad players. And it STILL wouldn't solve the problem of people not even trying. They'd do the bare minimum, and it wouldn't increase your chances of winning or make things any more fun.

 

Because this game rewards performance in a match rather than winning/losing (not counting daily). If you want to afk around in a WZ, go ahead because you aren't going to get that many medals. Medals matter more for valor/comms than winning, so you're only hurting yourself if you afk in a match.

 

The far more critical thing is that even if you afk in a match, that means you didn't leave it, which means I and many other players do not join a terribly losing match half way through with no chance of success.

[Nermack]

Here is the thing tho. Warzones are garbage right now. Trash. Broken pieces of ****. Most don't count and i haven't been in one where 1 side or both didn't have 12 in god knows how long. I do them for the bm commendations. That's it. My time is worth more than wasting it away in this horrible excuse for a game right now. The daily's are worse than having a job at a sweatshop. Takes the same amount of hours a day but at least you get paid SOMETHING at a sweatshop. And the end of all the horrible hack/exploits/broken code is a bag that chances are when you open it is 15 signs that says f*ck you... love bioware. so your damn right i will leave EVERY bg if i don't think it's not going to win. Only way around that is to make it warzones completed not warzones won. Then i wouldn't leave. Anything short of that. T.S.

 

Now 2 things. 1 fanboys don't bother replying to defend bioware A. They dont give a damn about you kissing their ***** B. i will not be back to this post to read it.

 

And 2 for those of you who would say then quit... Well i don't play this game because its fun i play it for the people. I play it for the guild mates who have all been together for over 10 years now playing these mmo type games. We had high hopes for this game but bioware has shown it lacks the knowlage to design and maintain a mmo. Now many are playing the beta of tera ( u can be a teddy bear ffs.... ) But that being said we would love nothing more than bioware to get its act together and fix this game and make it good, it just isn't now and you can not fault people who want to get in do their sweatshop like job and **** as soon as possible.

 

Now i wrote this for one reason and 1 reason only, you seem to forget its a game.... you should be enjoying yourself. And you should be able to play it the way you want. If people are just bad and i want to leave a bg you do NOT get the right to PUNISH me. Its a game i didn't try to sneak a bathroom break off the ipad production line in china

You know deep down you agree with me. Thats all.

[lJustAlexl]

Because this game rewards performance in a match rather than winning/losing (not counting daily). If you want to afk around in a WZ, go ahead because you aren't going to get that many medals. Medals matter more for valor/comms than winning, so you're only hurting yourself if you afk in a match.

 

The far more critical thing is that even if you afk in a match, that means you didn't leave it, which means I and many other players do not join a terribly losing match half way through with no chance of success.

 

This is simply untrue. You can gear up in 1/100 the amount of time PvPing if you play solely to complete the daily and weekly quests. Guess what the majority of PvP players are doing? Playing just to complete those quests. That's why they leave losing matches.

 

That's where the fault lies in this system. They need to reward something other than wins because the majority of the players in this game do not see the incentive in playing PvP for anything but wins. Take wins out of the equation and people won't quit nearly as often.

 

Just as an example, earning about 8 badges in a losing match will net you 3/4 the valor, comms, etc. of a winning match. However, by not netting a win you've also lost out on the equivalent of 266 warzone commendations for the daily and weekly just by not getting credit toward those quests and faster champion bags. Playing solely for wins is the most efficient method of advancing your character in PvP bar none. That's why they need to reward something else.

Edited February 13, 2012 by lJustAlexl

[Smashbrother]

Because people do this now. It's like those in favor of penalizing afkers and quitters have no idea how badly those players are justifying their choices. They really want to expend the least amount of effort possible because they feel anything more isn't worth it in a losing match. Punishing them for that will change nothing.

 

Like the OP said, we just need to reward cooperation and gameplay instead of victory alone. No one would ever leave if the greatest rewards are provided by trying your hardest or playing as best you can. It would be up to the individual player then but still reinforce objective and team-based play. There are no reasonable negative consequences to this idea.

 

Do you realize that the diff in comms/valor between a win and loss is not very significant? The vast majority of valor/comms you get in a game are from medals which are based on how well you do.

 

I'm a BM, so I've played ALOT of WZs. I have not run into that many afkers because afking does not give u any medals (outside of the 2 defender ones). This isn't like WoW where you can literally do nothing during a match and still get the same rewards as someone who played their best the entire time.

[Smashbrother]

This is simply untrue. You can gear up in 1/100 the amount of time PvPing if you play solely to complete the daily and weekly quests. Guess what the majority of PvP players are doing? Playing just to complete those quests. That's why they leave losing matches.

 

That's where the fault lies in this system. They need to reward something other than wins because the majority of the players in this game do not see the incentive in playing PvP for anything but wins. Take wins out of the equation and people won't quit nearly as often.

 

Your statement is true only for people who have reached BM and does not really need valor or comms, and thus the dailies/weeklies are the only source of char pvp improvement. The vast majority of players are not BMs.

 

I group Q with my guildies, so I have no trouble getting my dailies/weeklies done, but not everyone wants to group Q and that is fine. Thus, I have no problem changing the dailies/weeklies to matches played, but doing that isn't going to stop people from leaving games ONCE THEY FINISH THE QUESTS.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Smashbrother

[Tyrias]

Why would anybody just spend time and mooch like that? i mean seriously...if your going to go afk then loose all credit for being there and potentiall suffer a penalty... if you are going to toss a heal afound every now and then then your not afk... so why not make the best of a fight...

 

your just trying to be difficult tbh...

 

warzones are seriously suffering with dropouts....i see no reason not to give a 1 hour debuff penalty for dropouts... and a vote button for afk's... the only people who loose out are people who really dont give a **** if they are spoiling others peoples enjoyment of the game....they deserve what they get to be honest...

 

I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm telling you what a portion or the people we're talking about will do. The more and more you push someone to do something that they don't want to do by threatening them with punishment for not falling in line, the more people will fight back against and resist whatever it is that you're trying to achieve, irrespective of whether it is the "correct" thing to do. You MUST have seen that at some point in your real life, surely?

 

As to why not people wouldn't put in their all. You can tell within the first couple of minutes of a War-zone what the approximate outcome is going to be with the teams present, by making a quick assessment of your team's gear and skill levels, and how well the opposing team deals with that. 2 minutes a long enough time-frame to get a clear picture.

 

The games that people leave from most often are the ones that are going to be an unmitigated disaster. If you make it so that people are pressurized into staying, the teams will also not change during the course of the Warzone, and so it will almost always turn into the train-wreck that you thought it would.

 

In games where you have no hope of winning, you can either do as little as possible, so that in the mean time you divert you attention to something else in your room (A book, the TV, enjoying some decent music) while keyboard-turning and firing off skills on quickslots 1 through 6 with one hand. Alternatively, you could go off on your own and try to rack up some medals, dependant upon the skill level of the opposing force.

 

Either way, you are being of no particular benefit to the rest of your group. Which is the problem you're people are trying to get away from by introducing a desertion debuff.

[lJustAlexl]

Your statement is true only for people who have reached BM and does not really need valor or comms, and thus the dailies/weeklies are the only source of char improvement. The vast majority of players are not BMs.

 

I group Q with my guildies, so I have no trouble getting my dailies/weeklies done, but not everyone wants to group Q and that is fine. Thus, I have no problem changing the dailies/weeklies to matches played, but doing that isn't going to stop people from leaving games ONCE THEY FINISH THE QUESTS.

 

No, my statement is true for people who want to play as efficiently as possible. Sorry to say, but that's the majority. It's nice that some people legitimately enjoy PvP, but there are far more interested in fast advancement. That means wins and quest completion.

 

Just to further clarify, this is why I'm more in favor of incentivizing performance. Getting 112 commendations a match is nice, but you get 266 for every win toward quest completion. That's a pretty dramatic difference.

Edited February 13, 2012 by lJustAlexl

[Smashbrother]

I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm telling you what a portion or the people we're talking about will do. The more and more you push someone to do something that they don't want to do by threatening them with punishment for not falling in line, the more people will fight back against and resist whatever it is that you're trying to achieve, irrespective of whether it is the "correct" thing to do. You MUST have seen that at some point in your real life, surely?

 

As to why not people wouldn't put in their all. You can tell within the first couple of minutes of a War-zone what the approximate outcome is going to be with the teams present, by making a quick assessment of your team's gear and skill levels, and how well the opposing team deals with that. 2 minutes a long enough time-frame to get a clear picture.

 

The games that people leave from most often are the ones that are going to be an unmitigated disaster. If you make it so that people are pressurized into staying, the teams will also not change during the course of the Warzone, and so it will almost always turn into the train-wreck that you thought it would.

 

In games where you have no hope of winning, you can either do as little as possible, so that in the mean time you divert you attention to something else in your room (A book, the TV, enjoying some decent music) while keyboard-turning and firing off skills on quickslots 1 through 6 with one hand. Alternatively, you could go off on your own and try to rack up some medals, dependant upon the skill level of the opposing force.

 

Either way, you are being of no particular benefit to the rest of your group. Which is the problem you're people are trying to get away from by introducing a desertion debuff.

 

But people won't join terrible losing games half way through with no hope of a comeback though, and that is great.

[Tyrias]

Your statement is true only for people who have reached BM and does not really need valor or comms, and thus the dailies/weeklies are the only source of char pvp improvement. The vast majority of players are not BMs.

 

I group Q with my guildies, so I have no trouble getting my dailies/weeklies done, but not everyone wants to group Q and that is fine. Thus, I have no problem changing the dailies/weeklies to matches played, but doing that isn't going to stop people from leaving games ONCE THEY FINISH THE QUESTS.

 

Actually, I don't believe that to be true. I would estimate that a lot of the leavers (the ones who make a judgment call before a game has begun or after the first 30s) are people who see PvP as a route to gearing up that requires the least effort, and that they can achieve in a more-or-less solo fashion. These people don't actually enjoy PvP. As a result, they will spend as little time actually doing PvP as possible, which means Dailies and weeklies and nothing else.

[Smashbrother]

No, my statement is true for people who want to play as efficiently as possible. Sorry to say, but that's the majority. It's nice that some people legitimately enjoy PvP, but there are far more interested in fast advancement. That means wins and quest completion.

 

Makes excuses all you want for leaving, but the fact remains that there isn't a big difference between winning and losing in terms of valor/comm rewards.

 

The quests can be changed to matches played, that's fine with me. But we still need a damn deserter debuff so people won't have to join games half way through.

[Tyrias]

But people won't join terrible losing games half way through with no hope of a comeback though, and that is great.

 

Perhaps not, but there will be more games that "could" have been turned round by non-leavers (Almost everyone who advocates a desertion penalty seems to have some anecdote or other about how leavers are so stupid because they turn around so many games after they have left) that then have no hope at all because 2 or 3 team member really don't care.

[lJustAlexl]

Makes excuses all you want for leaving, but the fact remains that there isn't a big difference between winning and losing in terms of valor/comm rewards.

 

The quests can be changed to matches played, that's fine with me. But we still need a damn deserter debuff so people won't have to join games half way through.

 

Read my edit. A win toward quest completion is an additional 266 commendations (800 warzone comms per bag divided by 3 for the quest). That's two and a half good matches instantly. This is why people leave. Each win literally saves them nearly an hour of time played.

 

Please take a moment to consider all the issues before your next reply.

Edited February 13, 2012 by lJustAlexl

[Tyrias]

Makes excuses all you want for leaving, but the fact remains that there isn't a big difference between winning and losing in terms of valor/comm rewards.

 

The quests can be changed to matches played, that's fine with me. But we still need a damn deserter debuff so people won't have to join games half way through.

 

You are correct, there isn't much of a difference. But how many losses would you have to play to make up for the daily? I'd say 75 is a very generous number of commendations for a loss, and you'd still need to play 11 losses to make up for the 3 wins it requires to get a champion/battlemaster bag and them stop for the day.

 

We're not making excuses, we're telling you how people that are purely motivated by the gear and aren't in the slightest bit interesting in PvP think. This accounts for a fair number of people who leave matches as soon as they believe it's not going to be a win.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Tyrias

[Smashbrother]

Read my edit. A win toward quest completion is an additional 266 commendations (800 warzone comms per bag divided by 3 for the quest). That's two and a half good matches instantly. This is why people leave. Each win literally saves them nearly an hour of time played.

 

Please take a moment to consider all the issues before your next reply.

 

@Tyrias also. And maybe you should read the part where I said I have no problem changing the quests to be matches played instead of counting wins.

 

We still need a deserter debuff so that people will stop leaving once they get their dailies done. And a way to penalize afkers would be great too, but I'm not that worried about it. I haven't run into many afkers.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Smashbrother

[lJustAlexl]

@Tyrias also. And maybe you should read the part where I said I have no problem changing the quests to be matches played instead of counting wins.

 

We still need a deserter debuff so that people will stop leaving once they get their dailies done. And a way to penalize afkers would be great too, but I'm not that worried about it. I haven't run into many afkers.

 

That fails to address afkers though. In fact, that would likely increase the likelihood of them. Tie the quest rewards directly to performance instead and it would solve early quitters as well as afkers.

 

EDIT: I think I see where we're not seeing eye to eye. You think people are leaving just because they see a bad game, whereas Tyrias and I believe quitters are more driven by the fact that a loss will not advance their character [i.e. no quest credit].

 

What leads you to believe it's just a matter of people not wanting to stick around in a bad game...just because? You said it yourself, the commendation and valor rewards for a win or a loss aren't that significant, yet people leave all the same to avoid losses...doesn't that support our theory more?

Edited February 13, 2012 by lJustAlexl

[glenbruton]

deserter debuff. Worked well enough in every other game. Easiest solution when combined with AFK detection that doesnt suck..

[Tyrias]

Ok, but wouldn't it be best to make one change at a time, and then re-assess what needs changing?

 

If they were to change the dailies to completion instead of wins, then it would remove a lot of the people are gear focused and don't actually want to PvP. They get their dailies done and just stop queuing. You may find that desertion ceases to be the issue that it is now.

 

And even this solution has issues. Won't people just "play" 3 warzones and not care about the outcome? That will still cause a good number of un-fun war-zone experiences.

 

This is why I quite like the solution offered in the opening post. It's not perfect, but instead of finding ways to force people to do something they don't want, you are giving them reasons to want to do it in the first place.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Tyrias

[vimm]

Time to look up the definition of valor.

[Tyrias]

Time to look up the definition of valor.

 

Oh indeed. Valour is about courage and strength in the face of adversity. Realistically, you should get more for staying in situation where you are being facerolled than the people absolutely slaughtering you.

 

This is, however, not the case.

[Smashbrother]

That fails to address afkers though. In fact, that would likely increase the likelihood of them. Tie the quest rewards directly to performance instead and it would solve early quitters as well as afkers.

 

EDIT: I think I see where we're not seeing eye to eye. You think people are leaving just because they see a bad game, whereas Tyrias and I believe quitters are more driven by the fact that a loss will not advance their character [i.e. no quest credit].

 

I didn't say it would address afkers. I too want an anti-afk solution which I HAVE MENTIONED ALREADY in previous posts. Something like the mvp vote, but reverse so ppl that get votes will LOSE valor and comms. Or some kind of voting mechanic to kick them out (thus giving them deserter which should be at least 30 mins).

 

What leads you to believe it's just a matter of people not wanting to stick around in a bad game...just because? You said it yourself, the commendation and valor rewards for a win or a loss aren't that significant, yet people leave all the same to avoid losses...doesn't that support our theory more?

 

People are dumb and lazy. People also do not enjoy losing because many are impatient and susceptible to rage quitting. In order to get medals require effort from the player. So lazy players will want to afk in games where they are winning vs. afk in games where they are losing.

[Mithros]

I have posted ina couple of these already today.

 

Here is my take:

 

I am a bad Pvper. Not okay, not pretty good, I am bad. Maybe not the worst, but certainly not good.

 

They required three wins for the daily, and I think it took me 10 tries. Why should I penalize other people any more than necessary for the daily?

 

Make it six games rather than three wins, and reward the winning side in all PvP matches with extra commendations if they do not do that already.

 

People will try to get their numbers up, and people will want to win for the bonuses (not to mention ego), but people that just want to do the dailies can get in, get them done, and leave everyone else in peace.

[Caeliux]

People are dumb and lazy. People also do not enjoy losing because many are impatient and susceptible to rage quitting.

 

For lack of a better term I call it "I want instant gratification"

 

or

 

"It's my way or the highway"

 

I could go on, and I blame Warcraft for all of this.

 

It is really hard to find genuine people that play to win, and will stick it out to the very end in PvP. People that treat people like people should be treated. Play a game to embody a one of a kind experience with others. That is what a mmo used to stand for in EQ. That is why I and others cling to mmo's, to get them experiences again.

 

Best advice I give to people that listen is, stand strong, be blunt, and enjoy every moment. Don't take it serious, but if you have a voice maybe others will listen.

 

I play to win to the very end, even at the cost of time. It is sickening seeing the amount of excuses people use to bend the way they want.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Paralassa
rude

[FourTwent]

Just make Leave Warzone cost credits.

 

And lock d/c'ers to the WZ they got disconnected from for 5 minutes.

 

I like this idea from a humorous perspective.

 

My suggestion is two fold, 1 part (the main part) is objective based capturing points, scoring or aiding someone who does counts toward your progression, with the added bonus of doing enough damage, healing and protecting during the matches for either a bonus reward or as part of the main quest. The very things you SHOULD be doing to help your team win.

 

At the end of the day, Warzones in TOR revolve around teamwork. Which is the complete opposite of the leveling experience, so a major portion of the community thats used to the solo aspect aren't really enjoying it. And it sounds logical that if your team(or the majority) aren't working together toward the same goal, then you will fail.

 

Or some kind of voting mechanic to kick them out (thus giving them deserter which should be at least 30 mins).

 

You cant have this type of mechanic in game. For every 1 legit reason to use this to make your teams game better, there will be 10 others that got kicked simply from core groups abusing the system in order to let a guildie in, grief a player, etc

Edited February 13, 2012 by FourTwent

[BothanFourTwenty]

You want people to stop leaving warzones? Then learn how to play the things.

 

For example Huttball:

 

Do NOT stand on catwalks or the edge of your area at the cap line. A Sith or Jedi is just going to jump to you and score.

 

Position yourself away from flames and pools. If you get knocked back into a trap and die you are doing your team no good.

 

Focus the healers. let me say that again. Focus the healers. You take down the healers and that ball carrier will go down in about 10 seconds.

 

When your team mate grabs the ball 4 need to protect him while the other 3 head for the catwalks and form a chain to score by passes and pulls. You do NOT get a medal for scoring with the ball so it does not matter who actually does it. Work as a team.

 

Control the middle. CONTROL THE MIDDLE!! The opposing team cannot score if they never get the ball when it spawns. This keeps the ball on your scoring side and makes them have to run it across the map if they actually kill the carrier.

 

Avoid killing a ball carrier after they score. It does your team NO good for 3 people to try and kill the guy who just scored while 7 of the opposing team are butchering the only 5 left to try and get the ball when it spawns. Nine times out of ten they are going to avoid the catwalks anyway and just drop down to run the side which takes them out of the equation.

 

There is more but if you are any good at warzones you know all of this already. I can tell within the first thirty seconds how a match is going to turn out by what the team does for that first possession.