NuclearPanda Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) So in the prequels we got the whole explanation of midi-chlorians and how they are microscopic life-forms that reside within cells of all living things. Jedi can supposedly communicate with these organisms in some way to use and manipulate "The Force". So this always got me thinking about the mysterious mitochondria that dwell within all of us in real life. Mitochondria have always been referred to as the "powerhouse" of every cell. Without mitochondria we wouldn't live, exist or produce energy in any form. They are responsible for creating ATP, which powers literally everything and allows cells to function and work. (I won't get into a huge Biology lecture here, you can look up the various things you'd like). So Mitochondria exist inside of us and all living cells. We also know about DNA and how important that is. All cells have DNA, but what is fascinating it mitochondria has ITS OWN INDEPENDENT DNA. Futhermore, it's more of a bacterial genome, signifying that it's a foreign organism that was introduced thousands of evolution cycles ago. With mitochondria being responsible for making things work, EVERYTHING work, what if we were able to "communicate" with it in some way? By this I mean what if I could somehow stimulate those mitochondria to produce immense amounts of ATP, energizing my body to give super human strength? Attain speeds beyond belief? Propel my body to acrobatic feats of "Jedi-like" proportions? Manipulate mitochondria around me in other beings/organisms/molecules to suit my biddings? Anyways, the similarities are there. With advances in biology/nanotech/etc growing at an exponential rate it's not that far fetched an idea to make something like this possible. The mitochondria truly are the "energy field created by all living things", "surrounds and penetrates living beings" and quite possibly could be what "binds the galaxy together" considering every organism we know HAS this organism. Edited February 10, 2012 by NuclearPanda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasputaan Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I believe plant cells do not have them. Some Botanist please confirm that. If it is not within a Plant Cell it cannot be the midichlorians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuclearPanda Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) I believe plant cells do not have them. Some Botanist please confirm that. If it is not within a Plant Cell it cannot be the midichlorians. Plant cells do indeed contain both Chloroplasts (which turn sunlight into glucose) and Mitochondria (which turns the glucose into ATP). All living things need energy (ATP) to survive and function. http://www.biology-online.org/11/1_plant_cells_vs_animal_cells.htm Edited February 10, 2012 by NuclearPanda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasputaan Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Plant cells do indeed contain both Chloroplasts (which turn sunlight into glucose) and Mitochondria (which turns the glucose into ATP). All living things need energy (ATP) to survive and function. http://www.biology-online.org/11/1_plant_cells_vs_animal_cells.htm Bacteria, Virus and their entire Kingdom do not have mitochondria, do they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuclearPanda Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Bacteria, Virus and their entire Kingdom do not have mitochondria, do they? They don't, but that is a discussion between the difference in Prokaryotic (bacterium, virii) and Eukaryotic cells (animal, plant and complex cells). Mitochondria are viewed as distant decendants of Prokaryotic cells and were most likely at one point their own independant organism, though we don't know how it came to be or was created or what it evolved from. It's an interesting discussion on that level too. Scientists still to this day cannot properly classify things are what is "alive" and what isn't when it comes to defining the two cell types. What we DO know is that mitochondria have an endosymbiotic relationship with all the "living" things that we do define currently and are the "force" which powers all of them. Edited February 10, 2012 by NuclearPanda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustrumRidcully Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 As much as I really dislike the concept, yes, it always sounded to me as if midi-chlorians are kinda like mitochondria, just with something extra. Or maybe they are actually more like chlorophyl? But instead of transforming light into energy, they transform force into energy, or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuclearPanda Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 As much as I really dislike the concept, yes, it always sounded to me as if midi-chlorians are kinda like mitochondria, just with something extra. Or maybe they are actually more like chlorophyl? But instead of transforming light into energy, they transform force into energy, or something? How do we know that the mitochondria don't already have that "something extra" and that we just don't know how to properly "communicate" with it yet? See my example about boosting the mitochondria to increase ATP (energy) production. And you're a little mistaken about chlorophyl (specifically chloroplasts which are in plant cells). That is what converts sunlight to glucose (sugar). The mitochondria are still within plant cells and convert that glucose into ATP (energy). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riotus Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 As much as I really dislike the concept, yes, it always sounded to me as if midi-chlorians are kinda like mitochondria, just with something extra. Or maybe they are actually more like chlorophyl? But instead of transforming light into energy, they transform force into energy, or something? CHLOROPHYL??!?!?!?!? MORE LIKE BOROPHYL! Name that movie quote! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuclearPanda Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 CHLOROPHYL??!?!?!?!? MORE LIKE BOROPHYL! Name that movie quote! LoL @ Billy Madison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omninull Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) No, mitochondria is not magic. Mitochondria just allows for some pretty decent aerobic respiration. Even if it did have some mysterious power, it's not going to maintain that for billions of years of evolution without seeing any use. Edited February 10, 2012 by omninull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustrumRidcully Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 How do we know that the mitochondria don't already have that "something extra" and that we just don't know how to properly "communicate" with it yet? See my example about boosting the mitochondria to increase ATP (energy) production. And you're a little mistaken about chlorophyl (specifically chloroplasts which are in plant cells). That is what converts sunlight to glucose (sugar). The mitochondria are still within plant cells and convert that glucose into ATP (energy). When I saw the thread title again, I just started to wonder about the name that I used for what I meant. I was thinking the sentence half in German, or at least I wasn't sure whether I wrote the German or the English word (and in either case, it should have been Chloroplasts. (And yes, it's not directly converting sunlight into "energy". Though, well, glucose basically is energy in a form the organism can store and use.) But I thought the idea fitted a little better, because if the force is an "energy field", the analogy to chloroplasts worked better. Or so I thought... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psandak Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 No, mitochondria is not magic. Mitochondria just allows for some pretty decent aerobic respiration. Even if it did have some mysterious power, it's not going to maintain that for billions of years of evolution without seeing any use. Take it from the opposite side then... Maybe we and mitochondria have the potential to evolve a method of communication that the OP is suggesting. The point is the same - midi-chlorians and mitochondria...maybe a correlation exists. Maybe Lucas did not just pull it out of thin air; almost all science fiction is at least loosely grounded in reality. I am not saying I like the concept of midi-chlorians, in fact I don't, but what the OP is suggesting gives it a little more validity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joonbeams Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Take it from the opposite side then... Maybe we and mitochondria have the potential to evolve a method of communication that the OP is suggesting. The point is the same - midi-chlorians and mitochondria...maybe a correlation exists. Maybe Lucas did not just pull it out of thin air; almost all science fiction is at least loosely grounded in reality. I am not saying I like the concept of midi-chlorians, in fact I don't, but what the OP is suggesting gives it a little more validity. First there is no dispute that the inspiration for midichlorians came from mitochondria. Lucas: "Midi-chlorians are a loose depiction of mitochondria, which are necessary components for cells to divide. They probably had something--which will come out someday--to do with the beginnings of life and how one cell decided to become two cells with a little help from this other little creature who came in, without whom life couldn't exist. And it's really a way of saying we have hundreds of little creatures who live on us, and without them, we all would die. There wouldn't be any life. They are necessary for us; we are necessary for them. Using them in the metaphor, saying society is the same way, says we all must get along with each other." I really don't understand why the enthusiasts hate this concept so much. The midichlorians aren't the force, they are organisms that help sense/interact with the force. The force exists entirely without midichlorians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonSM Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 First there is no dispute that the inspiration for midichlorians came from mitochondria. Lucas: "Midi-chlorians are a loose depiction of mitochondria, which are necessary components for cells to divide. They probably had something--which will come out someday--to do with the beginnings of life and how one cell decided to become two cells with a little help from this other little creature who came in, without whom life couldn't exist. And it's really a way of saying we have hundreds of little creatures who live on us, and without them, we all would die. There wouldn't be any life. They are necessary for us; we are necessary for them. Using them in the metaphor, saying society is the same way, says we all must get along with each other." I really don't understand why the enthusiasts hate this concept so much. The midichlorians aren't the force, they are organisms that help sense/interact with the force. The force exists entirely without midichlorians. This. Midi-Chlorians are little represenatives of the force, and they show the amount of potential one has. And I don't get why so many hate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valgranth Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) With mitochondria being responsible for making things work, EVERYTHING work, what if we were able to "communicate" with it in some way? Communication requires a reciprocal understanding. I take your point to mean that the mitochondria might respond, in some way, to neurological or biochemical processes in the human organism, which sounds plausible and removes much of the mysticism. And probably already functions like that. By this I mean what if I could somehow stimulate those mitochondria to produce immense amounts of ATP, energizing my body to give super human strength? Attain speeds beyond belief? Propel my body to acrobatic feats of "Jedi-like" proportions? Manipulate mitochondria around me in other beings/organisms/molecules to suit my biddings? Why would mitochondria have the ability to "unlock" these latent powers? Why would they remain untapped if their attainment could have suited human biology previously? By what scientific mechanisms could this possibly work? Edited February 10, 2012 by Valgranth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omninull Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 As fun as it is to entertain the thought, there is no notion whatsoever that suggests mitochondria have some mysterious untapped potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omninull Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Take it from the opposite side then... Maybe we and mitochondria have the potential to evolve a method of communication that the OP is suggesting. The point is the same - midi-chlorians and mitochondria...maybe a correlation exists. Maybe Lucas did not just pull it out of thin air; almost all science fiction is at least loosely grounded in reality. I am not saying I like the concept of midi-chlorians, in fact I don't, but what the OP is suggesting gives it a little more validity. What is the opposite side? I'm not talking about opinions, I'm talking more on the grounds of scientific wisdom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solosus Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 scientific wisdom, that made me chuckle, don't be so myopic, your so called scientific wisdom keeps chaging depending on which theory or knowledge is found to be in line with the majority of core principles, perhaps a little research might enlighten one some in that regard. Scientific wisdom gave us many of the now considered malpracticed medicine of the past, scientific wisdom is bound my CURRENT knowledge constraints, as such, the whole physics debate on the ever expanding universe which is now widely accepted was not even a decade ago an impossibility. So i leave you with this, we may have mapped DNA, but we still do not know the function of every part of the brain down to its cell level, we have a general idea, hence why brain surgery is generally performed while the patient is conscious as to assertain which functions are being tampared with in said surgery, that's how far we still need to go in modern medicine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omninull Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) scientific wisdom, that made me chuckle, don't be so myopic, your so called scientific wisdom keeps chaging depending on which theory or knowledge is found to be in line with the majority of core principles, perhaps a little research might enlighten one some in that regard. Scientific wisdom gave us many of the now considered malpracticed medicine of the past, scientific wisdom is bound my CURRENT knowledge constraints, as such, the whole physics debate on the ever expanding universe which is now widely accepted was not even a decade ago an impossibility. So i leave you with this, we may have mapped DNA, but we still do not know the function of every part of the brain down to its cell level, we have a general idea, hence why brain surgery is generally performed while the patient is conscious as to assertain which functions are being tampared with in said surgery, that's how far we still need to go in modern medicine. Mitochondria is a rather simple structure, using the brain as a comparison is a profoundly absurd comparison that only an individual tentatively versed in biology would suggest. Scientific wisdom advanced human society 1000 years in a matter of decades. To scoff at our best known process to understand natural laws only exposes you as an intellectual charlatan. An idea that our universe is expanding is not absurd, proving it is something else. The idea that mitochondria manipulates the force (all we need to do is "talk" to them), assumes there is already a force to manipulate as well as billions of years of mitochondria retaining these evolutionary traits just waiting for us to one day use them. If the force exists, mitochondria does not have the machinery or structural complexity to suggest it does anything else other than aerobic respiration through the Calvin Cycle. All it does it generate ATP, which releases more energy upon breaking down into ADP than it takes to create ATP from ADP. I will say that how efficiently mitochondria produces ATP does affect your ability to perform in many different aspects. As you age, your mitochondria ages, and performs with less efficiency. Edited February 11, 2012 by omninull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuclearPanda Posted February 11, 2012 Author Share Posted February 11, 2012 Why would mitochondria have the ability to "unlock" these latent powers? Why would they remain untapped if their attainment could have suited human biology previously? By what scientific mechanisms could this possibly work? Well, I liken it to the 100lb mother who observes a tragic accident and a car is on top of someone and through the adrenalin rush and release of energy and endorphins in her own body above and beyond normal she is somehow able to lift the vehicle for a few crucial moments so the victim can escape. Everything is energy, and the Mitochondria are responsible for the creation of this energy which our body uses. I feel there are MANY "untapped" latent abilities we could be capable of but either haven't harnessed it yet or evolved that far. Crap, even DARPA has been experimenting with low level electrical charges running through the brain which has been proved to increase learning/awareness/recognition. Like hooking up a 9 volt battery to your head and suddenly for some reason you're smarter. (I can link the articles when I find them again. lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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